Novice recovery point/ rigging question

[Samblers]

I’m equipping myself and my 110 for adventure - just fitted jate rings to the front, have purchased 8t snatch strap, 3m 12t tree protector (which I intend to use as an equalizer strap) and have 4.75t shackles.

Having only ever watched snatch recoveries (not been in one), I’m just wondering whether a shackle is the best method of attaching my equalizer strap to the jate rings?

Jate rings are relatively low down, and I would have thought it would be easier when stuck in sand or gloop to have each end of the equalizer strap fitted with hooks rather than shackles? Does such a hook exist?

Any thoughts?

Cheers, Sam

[gusthedog]

I’m equipping myself and my 110 for adventure - just fitted jate rings to the front, have purchased 8t snatch strap, 3m 12t tree protector (which I intend to use as an equalizer strap) and have 4.75t shackles.

Having only ever watched snatch recoveries (not been in one), I’m just wondering whether a shackle is the best method of attaching my equalizer strap to the jate rings?

Jate rings are relatively low down, and I would have thought it would be easier when stuck in sand or gloop to have each end of the equalizer strap fitted with hooks rather than shackles? Does such a hook exist?

Any thoughts?

Cheers, Sam

Sam,

I'd be a bit concerned using jate rings to recover off. They were originally designed (I believe) for tying vehicles down and don't deal well with shock loading. You'd be better off fitting rated recovery points (check out the verandah section where one of our own AULROlians makes some gooduns). Most 4wd shops have rated hooks in stock too.

It's a good idea to equalize between two recovery points - but make sure if you are snatching that you mostly dig a vehicle out before attempting. If you just bung on a snatch strap to a bogged vehicle it has the potential to far exceed the rating of a snatch strap and cause catastrophic failure of snatch straps, shackles and or bend/twist chasis. Particularly if you are bogged in mud and you get heaps of suction or in deep sand.

Having rated recovery points on the rear is also a good idea. That way if the front ones are under water or hard to get to, you can recover the vehicle backwards. I use a solid aluminium insert in the hayman reece hitch for this. Some argue though that you shouldn't recover from a tow bar. I think its fine though. Never ever use the tow ball to chuck your strap over. Snatches can potentially snap a tow ball off making it into a high speed projectile. They are not designed for shock loads either.

And I just read you're using 4.75 tonne shackles. I would use ones with at least a 6 tonne rating. In snatching I reckon you could put 4.75 tonne through a shackle. Not easily but doable.

Like these http://www.dttbolts.com.au/index.php?route=product/product&path=8_52&product_id=295

[BigBlackDog]

Agree with gus.

If your tow hitch is one that is well anchored to the chassis then recover off it is fine, get yourself one of the hitches that slides in in place of the tow ball hitch, they are a large block of metal with an eye and shackle.

If y ou think you are going to need the snatch up front why no pre rig it? Get your equaliser through the snatch eye and shackle it on then find somewhere up high to hold the strap back off the ground. Obviously don't want to risk running it over though. If you need to recover from the bog it can save getting very messy.

Rod

[dawsey]

I tend to agree I thought jate rings were just tie downs as well.. probably wrong..also stronger shackles are a definite ..I use 4.5 ton rated shackles to pull my zook out of the slop..not that it gets bogged that often.

[Samblers]

Thanks for the post

Two front jate rings, therefore two 4.75t shackles... i.e. 9.5t

I did plenty of reading on here and other forums and it seems as if jate rings are pretty popular as recovery points? There was no suggestion that they were not suitable?

[Samblers]

Agree with gus.

If your tow hitch is one that is well anchored to the chassis then recover off it is fine, get yourself one of the hitches that slides in in place of the tow ball hitch, they are a large block of metal with an eye and shackle.
Rod

I have this set-up for the rear

[weeds]

Thanks for the post

Two front jate rings, therefore two 4.75t shackles... i.e. 9.5t

I did plenty of reading on here and other forums and it seems as if jate rings are pretty popular as recovery points? There was no suggestion that they were not suitable?

i also thought jate rings were suitable for recovery......not that i have them fitted

i have never bothered with an equalizer strap.......keep in mine the tree protector are quite wide, i doubt you would be able to bunch it up enough to get a shackel over it......

[Samblers]

12t tree protector is a strap about 3” wide, should get it into the shackle… it and the snatch and the shackles and the advice all came from ARB.

Yeah good point about having it all pre-rigged. I doubt I’d ever be anywhere that would require this and I’d be worried about damage to the snatch strap but definitely something to think about.

It sounds as if the hooks that I originally imagined do not exist…

[gusthedog]

You don't mean one of these (Tow Hook with Keeper - Bushranger (http://www.bushranger.com.au/tow_hook_with_keeper.php)) but hooks that go on the end of your tree protector that then hook onto your jate rings (have I still got you?). If option 2 then no, I dont think so. :D

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Thanks for the post

Two front jate rings, therefore two 4.75t shackles... i.e. 9.5t

I did plenty of reading on here and other forums and it seems as if jate rings are pretty popular as recovery points? There was no suggestion that they were not suitable?

Jate Ringa ARE suitable recovery points. The tying down things people refer to are a 5mm plate (from memory) with a 30mm hole through it that is bolted to one side of the chassis rail only and connect to the same point as a Jate ring.

Having said that, I wouldn't fancy a big snatch with them... You may have plenty of capacity in your straps, shackles and spare shear capacity in your grade 8.8 bolts that connect the Jate runs o the chassis, but the chassis is the weaker point. You have 4 x 1.5-2mm of steel in contact with half of each bolt... A heavy snatch will see those holes elongated!!!

A snatch should usually be your last resort... Try gentle pulls first, or a recovery vehicles winch if it has one. Alternitavely pull the vehicle backwards via the towbar arrangement, but DO NOT put a shackle or strop over the ball.

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[Samblers]

You don't mean one of these (Tow Hook with Keeper - Bushranger (http://www.bushranger.com.au/tow_hook_with_keeper.php)) but hooks that go on the end of your tree protector that then hook onto your jate rings (have I still got you?). If option 2 then no, I dont think so. :D

No I dont mean that. I guess I mean a double hook ('S' hook).

Am happy to accept that shackles are the answer :)

[Samblers]

Jate Ringa ARE suitable recovery points. The tying down things people refer to are a 5mm plate (from memory) with a 30mm hole through it that is bolted to one side of the chassis rail only and connect to the same point as a Jate ring.

My understanding also - think people are getting confused with the crappy black tie-down loops?



Having said that, I wouldn't fancy a big snatch with them... You may have plenty of capacity in your straps, shackles and spare shear capacity in your grade 8.8 bolts that connect the Jate runs o the chassis, but the chassis is the weaker point. You have 4 x 1.5-2mm of steel in contact with half of each bolt... A heavy snatch will see those holes elongated!!!


Not disagreeing, but fail to see how this is any different to any recovery point, not just jate rings? Fundamentally they are (mostly) just bolted to the chassis?

Snatch is a last resort but there's no point having the straps if there is not a suitable point to attach them (its an insurance policy). First resort is send my toddlers in with the shovel ;)

[Yorkshire_Jon]

My understanding also - think people are getting confused with the crappy black tie-down loops?

Not disagreeing, but fail to see how this is any different to any recovery point, not just jate rings? Fundamentally they are (mostly) just bolted to the chassis?

Snatch is a last resort but there's no point having the straps if there is not a suitable point to attach them (its an insurance policy). First resort is send my toddlers in with the shovel ;)

Worst case, a Jate ring used for recovery is connected to the chassis via one M10 bolt. Now consider a bull bar, they usually have a minimum of 6 x M10 bolts, two of which act in a different plane to the other 4. From a recovery perspective if you recover from solid points on a suitably rated bar, you are transferring load into the chassis in a much more controlled way and therefore much less likely to do damage or worse, cause an injury.

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[Yorkshire_Jon]

My understanding also - think people are getting confused with the crappy black tie-down loops?

Not disagreeing, but fail to see how this is any different to any recovery point, not just jate rings? Fundamentally they are (mostly) just bolted to the chassis?

Snatch is a last resort but there's no point having the straps if there is not a suitable point to attach them (its an insurance policy). First resort is send my toddlers in with the shovel ;)

I forgot to add my 2c worth about recovery hooks... No bloody way! Use rated shackles and spend an extra 20s attaching them to the car. Hooks are not worth the risk.

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[Samblers]

My ARB bar is attached via 4 M10 bolts... two of which are the same ones which also attach the jate rings

[Yorkshire_Jon]

My ARB bar is attached via 4 M10 bolts... two of which are the same ones which also attach the jate rings

Really? All the ARB bars I've fitted over the years have had 8 bolts. 2 vertical on each chassis rail, through the dumb irons and two lateral on each chassis rail.

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[nick_e]

I have reece hitch front and back which make easy recovery points. Snatch can be pinned into the reece.

Dozens of recoveries later and no issues.

Front hitch isn't much good for approach angles though. It was fitted by the previous owner for parking his 3T chipper but it is same quality as the rear one.

[gavinwibrow]

I think/hope he means 4 bolts on each chassis rail!!!

[Samblers]

I think/hope he means 4 bolts on each chassis rail!!!

Nup. I'll take a pic tonight and post.

[jimr1]

Hi Samblers , you put Location Perf .WA is that a differant place to Perth WA. Have you ever considerd , going along to a four wheel drive club , or four wheel drive show to watch differant forms of recovery . Practical Demo's , plus the chance to ask questions is always a good way of keeping up with new products , and there aplications . Many experianced four wheel drivers like to go to these venues , you also meet people who will be pleased to share there knowledge with you . Cheers , jimr1 ...

[Samblers]

Really? All the ARB bars I've fitted over the years have had 8 bolts. 2 vertical on each chassis rail, through the dumb irons and two lateral on each chassis rail.

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Yeah I meant 8 bolts ... must look harder :blush:

[Samblers]

Hi Samblers , you put Location Perf .WA is that a differant place to Perth WA.

Same place :)


Have you ever considerd , going along to a four wheel drive club , or four wheel drive show to watch differant forms of recovery

Yup, good idea. Also have done 2 of the 3 Eureka courses a couple of years ago but in a different 4WD... keeping a watch out on the Events page for any WA runs - keen to head out with some other Defender owners who can show me some tricks.

Will be heading up to Ledge/Wedge next Sunday with some T***ta owners, hence the flurry of activity.

Here, for the avoidance of doubt, is my jate ring install finished this evening...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/02/708.jpg


Sam

[gavinwibrow]

I'm assuming you know about the WA LR Owners Club (which has a beach run planned for 24th). Land Rover Owners Club of Western Australia (Inc) (http://www.lrocwa.org.au/lrocwa/)

[Samblers]

No I didnt - thanks!

[Loubrey]

I'll be going on that one as well, so look forward to putting a face with the Landie!:D!

Cheers,

Lou

[jimr1]

Hi Sam ,I'm pleased to hear your going to a meet , with other four wheelers , so good luck , I'm shore you'l have a great time . Cheers jimr1 ..