Rim offset - need a guide for dummy's

[walker]

Before you all start explaining, I do know what offset on a rim means.

However I am trying to work out how the numbers work in reference to original.

I am looking at the 16x8 ZU rims which they say have an offset of 38mm. How does this compare with the original 16x7 rims? I am just trying to work out how much wider they will make my track. I would like to get the tyres out as far as possible as I will be running Les Richmond extended flares.

[CJT]

Before you all start explaining, I do know what offset on a rim means.

However I am trying to work out how the numbers work in reference to original.

I am looking at the 16x8 ZU rims which they say have an offset of 38mm. How does this compare with the original 16x7 rims? I am just trying to work out how much wider they will make my track. I would like to get the tyres out as far as possible as I will be running Les Richmond extended flares.

All standard D2 rims where a +57mm offset, therefore the ZU 16x8 +38 alloys will sit a further 19mm out from the factory rims.

I wouldn't be concerned about the difference in rim width as that will always be smaller than the tyre width.

What size tyres are you going to run on the ZU Alloys?

On a side note, if you have the LRA Extra Large flares you should not have any issues with width. My wheels and tyres should be pretty much flush with the outside of the LRA flares, however I have 18x9 +32mm rims with 12.5" wide tyres.

[TD50WA]

265/75/16 tyres will not stick outside original metal guards with zu rims @ 38 offset. They will be about flush with guards, so the extended guards will not be needed, unless you go to 305 tyres or something similar.

There is a member who has some here....I'll try to find his details in members rides.....got photos as well if I remember.

Kev

V8dunekiller is the member...check out his car on members rides

[walker]

Thanks Chris and Kev. I do want the flares which look great and will also tidy up the guards which are a bit banged up. But I was worried that the tyres and rims would not be wide enough and it would look funny.

I plan to run 285/75-16 Goodyear Duratrac for my everyday tyre. Will also look at going for a 34 or 35" simex in future. I still have my Rangie ute for tuff stuff which is running 35" ET's so no need to destroy the Disco yet.

Chris, what rims are you running? I like the idea of going to 18" rim for big tyres but don't like the price of the tyres!!!:o

[CJT]

The 285's should be pretty close to filling out the guards I think. Having said that though, I know of one D2 that was running 285's on the standard 16x8 alloys and they fit without a guard cut or flares etc.

I ended up getting ATX Alloys, I had to get blanks machined and drilled o suit the D2 specs, I also had them machined to a +32mm offset to get the maximum legal width you can.

In regards to tyres, I ended up with 33x12.5 R18 Kumho KL71 MT's (equivalent to 320/60 R18) I managed to get four of them for a bargain at $270 each, however I have since found out that Kumho are no longer bringing them into the country so I will need to order some more from the states.

When I was looking at 18" mud tyres the prices where all around the $500 - $550 mark per tyre :(

[Ollie]

D2 2001 Td5
I fitted the LRA flares with a 2" lift Dynamic 16 x 8 steel wheels + 30. Mickey Thompson MTZ 285 75 R16.
If I can help with any measurements pls let me know. The gap tyre to guard = 15mm
Ollie

[TD50WA]

D2 2001 Td5
I fitted the LRA flares with a 2" lift Dynamic 16 x 8 steel wheels + 30. Mickey Thompson MTZ 285 75 R16.
If I can help with any measurements pls let me know. The gap tyre to guard = 15mm
Ollie

Just as a matter of interest, the dynamic rims @ +30 are illegal on a D2. Max offset change is 25. Those are 27mm change (standard +57 means greatest offset you can legally go is + 32)...... Sorry Ollie, not bagging you out mate, just informing the op so he is informed in his decision making.:D

Cheers
Kev

[Ollie]

Thanks Kev
Correct

[Ollie]

Hi Walker
I will rephrase the reply I have a D2 with the LRA flares if you would like any measurements taken please ask

Regards
Ollie

[bitdist]

The 285's should be pretty close to filling out the guards I think. Having said that though, I know of one D2 that was running 285's on the standard 16x8 alloys and they fit without a guard cut or flares etc.

I ended up getting ATX Alloys, I had to get blanks machined and drilled o suit the D2 specs, I also had them machined to a +32mm offset to get the maximum legal width you can.

In regards to tyres, I ended up with 33x12.5 R18 Kumho KL71 MT's (equivalent to 320/60 R18) I managed to get four of them for a bargain at $270 each, however I have since found out that Kumho are no longer bringing them into the country so I will need to order some more from the states.

When I was looking at 18" mud tyres the prices where all around the $500 - $550 mark per tyre :(

Out of interest where did you get the blanks machined?

[walker]

Just as a matter of interest, the dynamic rims @ +30 are illegal on a D2. Max offset change is 25. Those are 27mm change (standard +57 means greatest offset you can legally go is + 32)...... Sorry Ollie, not bagging you out mate, just informing the op so he is informed in his decision making.:D

Cheers
Kev

Yes, but there are plenty of things on many Disco's that are illegal, I think wheel track width would be the least of my concerns. If you run 32's on a D2 without engineering you are illegal as well.

Ollie, I would love to get the track you have but I don't want steel rims. I think the ZU rims should work ok.

[walker]

All standard D2 rims where a +57mm offset, therefore the ZU 16x8 +38 alloys will sit a further 19mm out from the factory rims.

I wouldn't be concerned about the difference in rim width as that will always be smaller than the tyre width.

What size tyres are you going to run on the ZU Alloys?

On a side note, if you have the LRA Extra Large flares you should not have any issues with width. My wheels and tyres should be pretty much flush with the outside of the LRA flares, however I have 18x9 +32mm rims with 12.5" wide tyres.


Chris, won't the ZU rims stick out an extra 31mm? I don't think you allowed for the extra 1" width of the ZU rim compared to standard.

[twr7cx]

Chris, won't the ZU rims stick out an extra 31mm? I don't think you allowed for the extra 1" width of the ZU rim compared to standard.

The ZU Alloys will stick out further than the standard wheels.
The 16" x 8" ZU Alloys will stick out a further 19mm per side which is increasing the wheel track by 38mm overall.
The 18" x 8" (+36mm offset) will do 21mm / 42mm respectively.

You are legally allowed to increase the wheel track by 50mm overall, so you can fit wheels with an offset at a maximum of +32mm.

I don't know why the steel Dynamic wheels that Les Richmond Automotive sell are +30mm. If they changed them by 2mm they would be road legal with no engineering requirements.

[twr7cx]

But I was worried that the tyres and rims would not be wide enough and it would look funny.

Sadly, it seems that there is no perfect off the shelf wheel option available for the D2. The ZU Alloys offset is not far out enough (16" are 38mm and 18" are 36mm). When the ideal offset would be +32mm to take advantage of widening the wheel track by the maximum of 50mm allowed.
The Dynamic steel wheels sold by Les Richmond Automotive are 2mm too much per side and would require engineering. I think however you would likely get away with the steel wheels as it's only 2mm off per side...

[CJT]

Chris, won't the ZU rims stick out an extra 31mm? I don't think you allowed for the extra 1" width of the ZU rim compared to standard.

Yes that is correct if you take into account the rim width as well, I meant the offset will be an additional 19mm.

If you go to a 285 tyre they will sit approx. 35mm further out than the standard 255 fitment tyres on standard offset rims.

I didn't worry about the rim width as your tyres will always sit wider than rim.

[CJT]

Out of interest where did you get the blanks machined?

They where machined by the supplier to the specs I gave prior to being sent to my local tyre shop where I ordered them.

[twr7cx]

They where machined by the supplier to the specs I gave prior to being sent to my local tyre shop where I ordered them.

What sort of dollars does it end up by the time the wheels have been brought in from overseas, machined and drilled to suit?

[CJT]

What sort of dollars does it end up by the time the wheels have been brought in from overseas, machined and drilled to suit?

Here are some prices;

Fuel Offroad (that I was originally getting)
$440 per wheel, however after waiting close to four months and the blanks not arriving from the US we gave up on those.

ATX Alloys (the ones I did get)
$425 per wheel, after ordering them the blanks where already in stock in Australia and the wheels where machined and delivered within two weeks.

As a comparison;

ZU Alloys
18x8 = $638 per wheel (Australian Price)
16x8 = $510 per wheel (Australian Price)

[TD50WA]

RANGE ROVER/DISCOVERY 2 ZU RIM - Discovery 2 - Discovery (http://rova-direct.com.au/discovery/discovery2/range-rover-zu-rim.html)

16x8 Zu rim listed as 399 from above link, oz located.

Cheers
Kev

[CJT]

Just to add to my post above, the price of $425 per ATX Alloy included freight and fitting / balancing.

[TD50WA]

Allied wheels does the mamba rim to suit the D2. It's a blank that has to be machined, so you can get the +32 offset.

I saw another post somewhere that American racing wheels have a couple of rims to suit as well, but no info on which ones or details.....


Cheers
Kev

[twr7cx]

ZU Alloys
18x8 = $638 per wheel (Australian Price)
16x8 = $510 per wheel (Australian Price)

Whose the ZU Alloy dealer in Australia? Those prices are criminal since the GBP to AUD conversion is AUD$280.50 and AUD$189.50 based on Paddocks Spares. Not sure what they would charge in freight costs though, but freight on a whole steel rear bar wasn't too bad through them and freight on tyres from TyreRack in the USA isn't too bad...

[twr7cx]

What is the bore hole for wheels on the D2? I believe the PCD is 5 x 120.

[twr7cx]

Allied wheels does the mamba rim to suit the D2. It's a blank that has to be machined, so you can get the +32 offset.

The Allied Wheels Mamba's are available in 16X8, 17X8, 18X8, 20X8.5, both in machined face and black face.
The offset is from zero to +45mm, so you are correct, they can definitely be machined down to suit.

http://www.alliedwheels.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Mumba-New.jpg
http://www.alliedwheels.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Black-Mumba-New1.jpg

They also offer Rocket in 16X7, 17X8. Offset ranges from +35 to +45 - so not ideal, but still suitabe.

http://www.alliedwheels.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Rocket.jpg

NEW WHEELS | Allied Wheels (http://www.alliedwheels.com.au/?page_id=191)
http://www.alliedwheels.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/allied_wheels_catalogue.pdf


I saw another post somewhere that American racing wheels have a couple of rims to suit as well, but no info on which ones or details.....

American Racing Application Guide lists AR893 MAINLINE as being the only one suitable for D2. 18.00" x 8.50" +30 and/or 20.00" x 8.50" +35

http://images.wheelpros.com/mAR8933.png
http://images.wheelpros.com/mAR8932.png

[CJT]

What is the bore hole for wheels on the D2? I believe the PCD is 5 x 120.

PCD 5/120
Borehole 70.1mm

Most aftermarket rims need to be run with hub rings.

[bitdist]

Does anyone know the load rating of the above allied rims?

[CJT]

Does anyone know the load rating of the above allied rims?

1250 kg

[twr7cx]

Most aftermarket rims need to be run with hub rings.

What is a hub ring? A machine spacer that goes over the hub because the bore in the wheel is too large?

[slug_burner]

What is a hub ring? A machine spacer that goes over the hub because the bore in the wheel is too large?

That is correct as far as I know.

[CJT]

That is correct as far as I know.

Yep, it is to fill out the gap between the factory hub centre and the centre bore on the rims, without it you tend to get vibrations, especially at higher speeds.

If you do need them make sure they are machined alloy ones and not plastic.

[walker]

Whose the ZU Alloy dealer in Australia? Those prices are criminal since the GBP to AUD conversion is AUD$280.50 and AUD$189.50 based on Paddocks Spares. Not sure what they would charge in freight costs though, but freight on a whole steel rear bar wasn't too bad through them and freight on tyres from TyreRack in the USA isn't too bad...

I agree, the price in Austrslia is robbery. I have just ordered ths ZU rims from paddocks. Just waiting on confirmation but they think it will be $225 Aus delivered for each rim.

Not quite as happy with tyre rack. It seems they only deliver by air so it ends up over $700 for shipping. The tyres end up only $50/tyre cheaper than buying here and then I still have to get them fitted.

[TD50WA]

I agree, the price in Austrslia is robbery. I have just ordered ths ZU rims from paddocks. Just waiting on confirmation but they think it will be $225 Aus delivered for each rim.

Not quite as happy with tyre rack. It seems they only deliver by air so it ends up over $700 for shipping. The tyres end up only $50/tyre cheaper than buying here and then I still have to get them fitted.

Appreciate a confirmation on that price when you get it mate......that's a damn good one if it's confirmed.:D

Cheers
Kev

[CJT]

Not quite as happy with tyre rack. It seems they only deliver by air so it ends up over $700 for shipping. The tyres end up only $50/tyre cheaper than buying here and then I still have to get them fitted.

I found tirerack was great for passenger car tyres as they are small and light, the issue with the 4wd tyres is their size and weight.

I still need to order some more of the Kumho MT's from them though as they are no longer available in Australia in the size I have.

[twr7cx]

Not quite as happy with tyre rack. It seems they only deliver by air so it ends up over $700 for shipping. The tyres end up only $50/tyre cheaper than buying here and then I still have to get them fitted.

I don't know why they only do air freight. It takes only a couple of days and the tyres are at your door - quicker than if you ordered anywhere in Australia, but would be nice to have a slow cheaper option.

[walker]

Yes. But I have to admit, the freight price was more than normal because I asked for them to be sent in two shipments so that the price of each shipment would be below $1000. Doing this added $170 to the cost.

The price they have given me is $372/tyre shipped for Goodyear Durotrac 285/75-16. ($219 for tyre and $153 shipping)

I havent ordered yet, so will ring around a few local tyre places and see how close they can get.

[twr7cx]

Yes. But I have to admit, the freight price was more than normal because I asked for them to be sent in two shipments so that the price of each shipment would be below $1000. Doing this added $170 to the cost.

Saves you the GST and import fees (I did the same). However, from what I have read, a lot of people that have purchased from them and had the tyres sent together haven't been charged because the tyres are all sent individually, not bundled together - it's a gamble though.

[CJT]

Yes. But I have to admit, the freight price was more than normal because I asked for them to be sent in two shipments so that the price of each shipment would be below $1000. Doing this added $170 to the cost.

The price they have given me is $372/tyre shipped for Goodyear Durotrac 285/75-16. ($219 for tyre and $153 shipping)

I havent ordered yet, so will ring around a few local tyre places and see how close they can get.

Even if you are charged GST + Import Fees its only around 15% total, are you sure its not cheaper and easier to do it as one shipment.

[TD50WA]

Did you get a confirmed price on those zu rims from paddocks yet?, with freight ?

Cheers
Kev

[CJT]

Devon 4x4 have the ZU 16x8 for $1485 for a set of five delivered to Brisbane.

Works out to $297 per rim.

[walker]

Still waiting for the shipping confirmation!! I would expect them to be cheaper then $297/rim.

I have also worked out it is a lot cheaper to get the tyres locally then from the US. If Tyrerack would ship via boat rather than airfreight then it might be worthwhile, but they won't.
Price was $372 shipped when I can get them fitted at KMart auto for $325

[Tombie]

Mate, The GY Duratrac are a pretty good tyre...

We use them on the fleet here and they wear ok and run ok on road, although a little noisy.

They do puncture quite easily though - sticks, sharp rocks etc..

Just be aware..


Consider also, pricing the D697 Dueller - The new ones (which are Japanese rubber) ride better, are much thicker rubber in the tread / body and grip like a teenage boy in all but the worst offroad.

They self clean well, but still are not a muddy!

And pretty quiet at speed on the highway too..

[walker]

I'll have a look. Only reason I'm going for the Durotrac is that they are better than an A/T but not a M/T. Normally I would just run a muddy as everyday tyre, but I need to use the Disco to tow our 21' caravan and I don't like the idea of doing that on muddies.

I used to tow the van with the Prado which was shod with Mickey T MTZ'S but the Prado handled a lot better than the Disco.

The aim is to have a 33" tyre that will tow the van and still be ok driving up the Cape (later this year) and do weekends up the high country.

My brother in law has them on his jeep and we were surprised how well the did offroad and yet were so quiet onroad.

[walker]

Just had a look. The 697's aren't aggressive enough for me.

The only other tyre with the same sort of tread is the Cooper STmax but I refuse to by Cooper. I wouldn't get MTZ's again either.

[Tombie]

Just had a look. The 697's aren't aggressive enough for me.

The only other tyre with the same sort of tread is the Cooper STmax but I refuse to by Cooper. I wouldn't get MTZ's again either.

Your call...

Just for context - I'm using both & I'm sold on the 697... The design of the tread works far better than I expected - I'd go so far as to say better than the Duratracs I have on the work Prado...

All the roads around here are Clay soil with aggregate, and watered down every day so extremely slick when wet... The Prado (and I) found the table drain yesterday due to a "Traction misunderstanding"

The D4 on factory tyres slid around, the 697s are holding much better... And on loose gravel and loose rock (cape roads) surprisingly sure footed... The Duratrac is about on par on this.

I can tell you though - the 697 is a much tougher tyre - much less likely to stake or puncture. And they chip a lot less...

You may get some benefit from the Duratrac with the side biters though...

[walker]

You won't convince me on the 697's but the strength of the Durotrac sidewalls does worry me a bit. I have a look at other forums and many people think they are fantastic. If I didn't go for them, then I would go for a m/t tyre. MTR's are always tough and are not too bad on the road.

[Dougal]

Yes. But I have to admit, the freight price was more than normal because I asked for them to be sent in two shipments so that the price of each shipment would be below $1000. Doing this added $170 to the cost.

The price they have given me is $372/tyre shipped for Goodyear Durotrac 285/75-16. ($219 for tyre and $153 shipping)

I havent ordered yet, so will ring around a few local tyre places and see how close they can get.

Good to hear some feedback on the duratracs. I have ordered a tire rack set in 215/85r16 from there. I found a us car parts importer not far away who regularly brings in containers. Mine are being freighted to his guy in California and then coming slow boat for about $50 each.

I went for the duratracs as the only tyre which is good enough in mud and packed snow. Most muddies are crap in snow and vice versa. I went skinny so I can wrap snow chains around them. For a classic rangie.

[twr7cx]

Do most of these tyres meet the load and speed ratings?
Load Index of 105 or 925kg and speed category of T.

[walker]

Ahh Dougal. I wish I had know. I would have seen if I could have put my tyres with yours.

The tyres easily exceed the load rating, but I don't think any A/T or M/T meet that speed rating. Any way speed rating of T is 190km/h......goodluck getting a Disco going that fast. The Durotracs are rated P or Q depending on size.

[Tombie]

Do most of these tyres meet the load and speed ratings?
Load Index of 105 or 925kg and speed category of T.

T speed rating are NOT required.

The law allows a lower speed rated tyre. P & Q are fine

[twr7cx]

T speed rating are NOT required.

The law allows a lower speed rated tyre. P & Q are fine

Do you have a reference? I ask as the tyre placard on the Discovery if I recall reads pretty firmly that tyres of a lower speed rating are not to be fitted? It would certainly make it easier for tyre choice!

[twr7cx]

The tyres easily exceed the load rating, but I don't think any A/T or M/T meet that speed rating.

Pretty sure my Bridgeston Dueler Revo 2 A/T in 255/70R18 (approximately 32") meet it. I seem to recall that was why I went with them as they were one of the only choices at the speed rating.

[walker]

I am not sure why you would worry about speed ratings which are not achievable anyway when the size you have make the illegal anyway. (Unless you had them engineered)

[Dougal]

Duratracs in my size are Q rated, which is 160km/h. My BFG A/T's are the same.

If you had a tyre failure above that speed, there would be much more important question to answer than: "why didn't you have higher rated tyres"?

[Dougal]

You won't convince me on the 697's but the strength of the Durotrac sidewalls does worry me a bit. I have a look at other forums and many people think they are fantastic. If I didn't go for them, then I would go for a m/t tyre. MTR's are always tough and are not too bad on the road.


Looks like they come in 3 ply ratings. 6, 8 & 10. I've got E (10) ply rating ones coming.

[CJT]

Do you have a reference? I ask as the tyre placard on the Discovery if I recall reads pretty firmly that tyres of a lower speed rating are not to be fitted? It would certainly make it easier for tyre choice!

I will see if I can find the documentation, from memory an offroad 4wd vehicle is allowed a speed rating replacement tyre of minimum 140km/hr, I think that is an N rating.

[walker]

Looks like they come in 3 ply ratings. 6, 8 & 10. I've got E (10) ply rating ones coming.

Where did you get that info? I looked around and could not find anything regarding the sidewall ply.

[walker]

Did you get a confirmed price on those zu rims from paddocks yet?, with freight ?

Cheers
Kev


Still waiting on the freight price from Paddocks!!!!!!!

I do have a confirmed price from Flatdog UK. 5-ZU 16x8 rims delivered 835 pounds which comes to $250Aus/wheel

[Dougal]

Where did you get that info? I looked around and could not find anything regarding the sidewall ply.

Tirerack specifications.
They rate them as C (6 PR), D (8 PR) or E (10PR). Looks like most of them are E.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp'tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Wrangler+DuraTrac&partnum=185QR6WDT&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

[walker]

Still waiting on the freight price from Paddocks!!!!!!!

I do have a confirmed price from Flatdog UK. 5-ZU 16x8 rims delivered 835 pounds which comes to $250Aus/wheel

Finally got a price from Paddocks. They were £881for 5 rims delivered.

I placed the order with Flatdog who ended up doing the 5 - 16x8 rims for £825 delivered and they are sending them in 2 shipments for me. They say 1-2 weeks but we will see.

[Slunnie]

I will see if I can find the documentation, from memory an offroad 4wd vehicle is allowed a speed rating replacement tyre of minimum 140km/hr, I think that is an N rating.

Yep

NCOP VSB14 NCOP11 pg19 Section4.1

Not sure how Victoria adopts NCOP though.

[twr7cx]

Yep

NCOP VSB14 NCOP11 pg19 Section4.1

Not sure how Victoria adopts NCOP though.

Here is the link and quote:


A motor vehicle under 4.5 tonnes GVM which is required to comply with ADR 24 may be equipped with tyres other than those listed on the tyre placard provided that... the speed rating of the tyres fitted to vehicles with special features for off-road use of at least 140 km/h N when the tyre placard requires a higher speed rating than N

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP11_Section_LS_Tyres_Suspension_Steering_V2_1Ja n_2011%20v3.pdf

[Slunnie]

Thanks for the link. I was on an iPad which isn't seemless like PC in doing links.

[CJT]

What is a hub ring? A machine spacer that goes over the hub because the bore in the wheel is too large?

Just for information on hubcentric rings.

If you go down the route I did, having rims machined more than likely the Centre Bore size will be to suit a LR Disco 3 at 72.6mm.

In addition, this opens up more options if you can look at wheels to suit the D3 as well to go on the D2.

To make sure they fit and you do not get any vibrations you need these to take the D2 hub centre from 70.1mm to 72.6mm, also it is a requirement to fit them as detailed in the NCOP.

Hub Centric Rings OD 72 6mm ID 70 1mm Aluminium Alloy | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/180986126538?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619)

[ozscott]

Have you guys fitted up these flash wheels...if so I would love to.see them added to this thread...

Cheers

[CJT]

Here is mine...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1005.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/1006.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/07/508.jpg

[ozscott]

Thanks mate.


Keep them coming people. I really like the Zu black and Zu anthracite jobbies...cant see any photos of D2's with them.

Cheers