Outer Axles: Help- Identification / Trivia :)

[nukblazi]

OK! Just bought a '96 Defender with some mods. I am trying to sort it out, then make a plan.

Has: Maxi-Drive Engineering Rear locker. Works!

Rear... Stub shaft plates??? Help please. This makes my old Jeep TJ Unlimited Rubicon look easy.

Rear has: MDE 859 stamped on outers. (MDE = Maxi Drive Engineering)
Front has: same look, no stamp.
Front has: Service history that says, "Install heavy duty front Stub Shafts, 20% more fluid"

Question: "What does this mean?" I know the MDE rear diff lock modifies the axles. However, all HD "stub shafts" picture something like what I have. But, all service manuals have a basic dust cover.

pics....

Do I have HD, something, front and rear? Images are name 2266 rear, 2267 fronts...

[88classic]

they look alloy aircraft spec but there is / has been zinc coated steel out there on the cheap so not sure from the photo s but there is alot of users on this thread that will giveall the knowledge you need ...

Imstill learning!!

[LowRanger]

OK! Just bought a '96 Defender with some mods. I am trying to sort it out, then make a plan.

Has: Maxi-Drive Engineering Rear locker. Works!

Rear... Stub shaft plates??? Help please. This makes my old Jeep TJ Unlimited Rubicon look easy.

Rear has: MDE 859 stamped on outers. (MDE = Maxi Drive Engineering)
Front has: same look, no stamp.
Front has: Service history that says, "Install heavy duty front Stub Shafts, 20% more fluid"

Question: "What does this mean?" I know the MDE rear diff lock modifies the axles. However, all HD "stub shafts" picture something like what I have. But, all service manuals have a basic dust cover.

pics....

Do I have HD, something, front and rear? Images are name 2266 rear, 2267 fronts...

You have rear Maxi Drive Engineering drive flanges fitted hence the "MDE"
The fronts could be aftermarket from another manufacturer.
Interesting references to "Stub shafts" not normally referred to as such in Land Rover circles,unless it was early rangie C.V's with replaceable stub shafts.
I would think it is more likely had replacement half shafts fitted.Did it mention what brand?And hopefully they replaced the pitifully inadequate CV's as well.

[nukblazi]

For clarity, or confusion...

No brand mentioned in paperwork. Gosh this was hard to quote.

"GREASE BRGS. & REFIT TO HUBS WITH H. DUTY OIL/ GREASE SEALS. REFIT HUBS & ADJUST WHEEL BEARING PLAY. INSTALL TWO MODIFIED DRIVE FLANGES, 'LOCK STUD' BOLTS AND TENSION"... "REFILL SWIVEL (+20% FOR HUBS) & ADD GEAR OIL TREATMENT"

Nov. 11 1998, Safety Service Centre Forestville, NSW

[rick130]

Back in '98 Maxi-Drive would have been the only show in town (or the world)

[nukblazi]

For confusion, again...

Original owner clearly spared no expense (re: zinc plated steel). Less when it came to cutting the expensive stuff out. Least, my mates 10 year stewardship was fair enough. But there are some blunt ending power wires, and disconnected switches. Amazingly, there are no electrical/ dead battery gremlins to deal with.

Original owner was... seems wrong to say it on a forum. He took the good stuff with him. But, fairly, did not leave a mess either. He built it the good way as well, as I would've like to have it.

[nukblazi]

Back in '98 Maxi-Drive would have been the only show in town (or the world)

:) too bad they're no longer here. Could provide a case study on just how good, and long lasting their mods were. :)

[LowRanger]

Hopefully when they put in 20% extra oil,they also did the full oil wheel bearing modification.

[nukblazi]

Hopefully when they put in 20% extra oil,they also did the full oil wheel bearing modification.

Wish I knew the answer to that one. Comparatively, there is a lot of information out there on the Landie, not many authoritative answers. Jeep, is easy in retrospective. Yep, I am an american, with a hard on for the NAS D90. Living in Oz, and own a D110. :D Jeeps are easy and cheap, this sounds like a basket case.

[rick130]

:) too bad they're no longer here. Could provide a case study on just how good, and long lasting their mods were. :)

The parts still live on.

Barry who used to work for Mal and Paula Storey still makes the axles and drive flanges under the Hi-Tough name, and the lockers, etc are made/sold by MR Automotive in Brissy.

[nukblazi]

The parts still live on.

Barry who used to work for Mal and Paula Storey still makes the axles and drive flanges under the Hi-Tough name, and the lockers, etc are made/sold by MR Automotive in Brissy.
Thank you. Will be searching the interweb.

[LowRanger]

Wish I knew the answer to that one. Comparatively, there is a lot of information out there on the Landie, not many authoritative answers. Jeep, is easy in retrospective. Yep, I am an american, with a hard on for the NAS D90. Living in Oz, and own a D110. :D Jeeps are easy and cheap, this sounds like a basket case.

Jeep is only easy because that is what you are used to.Defenders are just as easy,as they are a basically simple design.But it is just a matter of separating the fact from fiction on the inter-web:D
My wife is American,and couldn't understand the Land Rover thing at first,but it didn't take her long.Now she wouldn't have a Jeep:cool:

[Bush65]

For clarity, or confusion...

No brand mentioned in paperwork. Gosh this was hard to quote.

"GREASE BRGS. & REFIT TO HUBS WITH H. DUTY OIL/ GREASE SEALS. REFIT HUBS & ADJUST WHEEL BEARING PLAY. INSTALL TWO MODIFIED DRIVE FLANGES, 'LOCK STUD' BOLTS AND TENSION"... "REFILL SWIVEL (+20% FOR HUBS) & ADD GEAR OIL TREATMENT"

Nov. 11 1998, Safety Service Centre Forestville, NSW
That description of work is pretty straight forward.

Let's deal with the rear end first. Since it has a maxi-drive locker which operates properly, it must have maxi-drive half shafts (land rover speak for axles).

Now the front and the post that I have quoted here.

Maxi-drive don't make cv's, but they do make better drive flanges than stock and these seem to be what are fitted from the photo and this is what it is saying in the bold type part of the quote.

What cv's or half shafts are fitted we can't tell from anything here. If upgrading back then, the better way was to fit maxi-drive half shafts, 110 cv's and maxi-drive flanges. The mechanic doesn't mention this unfortunately.

Later maxi-drive flanges look different because of a modification to suit those using some particular alloy wheels (doesn't affect steel wheels.

[nukblazi]

Thanks John.

Are the landy axles full/semi float? Can you still roll out of the bush if you snap one?

[rick130]

Full floaters mate ;)

And you'll have rear Maxi Drive axles, they were supplied with the locker (and needed due to how a Maxi locker works)
You'll be doing well to snap one.

Front CV's are another matter though.

[yt110]

I would have thought that if 110 cv's had been fitted then the flanges would be
MDE OH62 (62mm overall height) to allow for the longer cv's.

Jim

[nukblazi]

I would have thought that if 110 cv's had been fitted then the flanges would be
MDE OH62 (62mm overall height) to allow for the longer cv's.

Jim
You lost me mate. I am still learning. Confirmed aftermarket flanges upfront. Look identical to the rear. Not sure at all about any internals in the front axle unfortunately.

@rick130; giddy up. I honestly can't believe the maxi-drive locker still works! The mate I bought it off of never used it in 10 years... so only original owner used it. Good product I reckon.

[nukblazi]

What cv's or half shafts are fitted we can't tell from anything here. If upgrading back then, the better way was to fit maxi-drive half shafts, 110 cv's and maxi-drive flanges. The mechanic doesn't mention this unfortunately.

Are the CVs you mention, the stock Landy 110 CVs, or something different? Suppose I won't know until I take it apart.

Currently, what is the recommended set up for the front?

Thank you. Appreciate all the information.

[Bush65]

You lost me mate. I am still learning. Confirmed aftermarket flanges upfront. Look identical to the rear. Not sure at all about any internals in the front axle unfortunately.

...


Are the CVs you mention, the stock Landy 110 CVs, or something different? Suppose I won't know until I take it apart.

Currently, what is the recommended set up for the front?

Thank you. Appreciate all the information.
When Land Rover (not talking Range Rovers here) changed to coil springs, the only models made available in Australia were the 110 station wagon, with either 3.5 litre V8 or 3.9 litre Isuzu diesel engine (often called the County because they had County trim and decals on the doors) and a 4x4 or 6x6 cab-chassis, which had the chassis stretched (in Australia) from 110" to 120" wheel base (thus often called the 120).

The above is confusing, and especially frustrating to purists, when people call 110's, County's or Defenders and Defenders, 110's.

These particular 110's had the strongest stock cv's available in a Land Rover (apart from the 101 - but we don't want to consider those).

When the Land Rover Discovery was introduced they changed the model name of the 110 to Defender. Both the Discovery and Defender had a new Land Rover diesel engine, the 200Tdi and there were some other changes, including narrower wheel hubs (wheel bearings closer together), weaker cv's, and 24 spline front differentials.

So if we want to fit the stronger cv's that came with the earlier 110 into a Defender (or Disco, or RRC) with narrower hubs, a custom drive flange is needed to accommodate the longer stub shaft of the earlier cv. This was a popular modification using Maxi-drive axles and flanges. Maxi-drive also made flanges to suit other cv's and this is what yt110 was referring to. I can't tell from the angle of your photograph, if your front flanges are the longer ones for the earlier 110 cv or not, but I think yt110 may be correct and you have the weaker cv's.

The half shafts for the later cv's are smaller at the outer end (to suit the cv), so changing to the earlier cv enables the axle to be stronger because it doesn't step down in diameter.

These days, stronger aftermarket cv's are available (Ashcroft are probably the leading supplier), and converting to earlier 110 cv's is not so popular.

[rick130]

[snip]

and converting to earlier 110 cv's is not so popular.

But a bucket load cheaper for the tight arses amongst us :D

RRC CV's with the replaceable stub shaft are an alternative too.
Theoretically weaker than the one piece CV's due to the 10 spline drive between the bell and stub shaft but most that have used both report them to not going bang as frequently as the AUE2522 CV.
Go figure ?
If they do break the stub shaft it's a pretty easy replacement in the field.

FWIW KAM supply their exxy, high strength CV's with replaceable stubs in 24 spline too, and their CV's are manufactured by the same company that Ashcrofts use.
The boys that use them in the UK seem happy with them

[nukblazi]

Yep, initially very confusing. Though both posts were extremely well written and very easy to understand. Thank you.

I would appreciate knowing what is up there. From which angles would you be able to tell if I had the 110 cv?

I don't intend on going through rock gardens with the thing, but I have a tendency to get myself into trouble. Would you recommend upgrading either way?

[uninformed]

The internal angle ........ Seriously, probably the only way to know. I'm betting the stock cv looking at your pic. But no way can I be sure.

[rick130]

The internal angle ........ Seriously, probably the only way to know. I'm betting the stock cv looking at your pic. But no way can I be sure.


Yep, it sure looks like a standard late model 32inner spline CV, doesn't it.

[Bush65]

Yep, initially very confusing. Though both posts were extremely well written and very easy to understand. Thank you.

I would appreciate knowing what is up there. From which angles would you be able to tell if I had the 110 cv?

I don't intend on going through rock gardens with the thing, but I have a tendency to get myself into trouble. Would you recommend upgrading either way?
Probably best to measure how far the flange protrudes from the mounting face on the hub, then someone can measure their known type.

In the post from yt10 he said 62mm, but I'm not sure if that includes the screw-on cap (I suspect not).

... if 110 cv's had been fitted then the flanges would be
MDE OH62 (62mm overall height) ...

No good me checking as I'm divesting my rover drive lines and no longer have any maxi flanges to measure.

[uninformed]

I run a MD drive flange on the front of my 1998 300tdi defender 110. I run RRC cv's (606665), but with a custom stub shaft, that im 95% sure makes them the same length as the early Land Rover 110 cvs (AEU2522).

Drive flange is 68mm long from mounting face on the hub, including the end cap. Ie completely installed and driveable.

It was common for people to replace just drive flanges on these vehicles for a number of reasons, which include: OEM axle shaft and drive flange material, spline length of both, grease lubricated not oil, lack of maintainence. These things lead to wear between the 2 and increased driveline "backlash". So it would not be uncommon to find a stock front or rear end with just upgraded drive flanges. Your front could be a Maxidrive flange or just a copy. If you give it a good clean and find any markings like the rear, post up the numbers/letters.

[nukblazi]

Thanks for all the reply. Learning curve seems to be rather steep.

Rear has MDE 859 stamped on it.
Front has no marks. Will measure it once the rain lets up.

[uninformed]

all good mate. One thing to point out is that your axles are the shorter spline on the drive flange end. All this means is at some point (after yours) Maxidrive decided to make the spline length longer. This meant a longer axle and longer driveflange. I am not 100% sure, But I think they were getting reports of spline wear. Now this may have been more to do with the fact that the wheel bearings were not oil feed anymore but grease packed, and that some people didnt keep the splines lubed. An easy way to sort this is to run your wheel bearings in oil, and IMO is a very good practice. Maxidrive use to do this and recommend it.

Basicly you pull the oil seal that runs on the axle shaft and just use the one that presses into the back of the hub and seals on the stub axle (spindle). This way the oil runs from the diff right through, into the splins and wheel bearings.