Can my Landie do this? What do I need?

[nukblazi]

Right... so... here is a pic of my old daily driver. 2005 Jeep TJ Unlimited Rubicon (with short arms).

How do I get my '96 D110 to the same level? I don't want to get more technical than that. Is this possible? (Yes). What to I need to achieve the same articulation?

This is 4" lift with Rubicon Express Shocks/ Bilstein 5150 shocks and a lot of custom suspension/ steering... 33x12.5x15

[rick130]

You can't get the same flex out of radius arms without going to a three link or similar, plain and simple.

It can and has been done numerous times, but requires a bit of engineering common sense and whether you can actually make it road legal in NSW in this day and age ?????

An alternative would be something like a poor man's three link where you disconnect a pin to allow one half of the 'hockey stick' to pivot like these made by Superior Engineering, who just happen to have some Landy arms in development http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/index.php?pag_id=24



This is a very old pic, but it'll give you an idea.
You can't get much more than this out of radius arms without something like the Superior hinged arm.


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=56663&stc=1&d=1360665912

[goingbush]

How come your driving a Left Hand Drive Jeep ???

[nukblazi]

You can't get the same flex out of radius arms without going to a three link or similar, plain and simple.

It can and has been done numerous times, but requires a bit of engineering common sense and whether you can actually make it road legal in NSW in this day and age ?????

An alternative would be something like a poor man's three link where you disconnect a pin to allow one half of the 'hockey stick' to pivot like these made by Superior Engineering, who just happen to have some Landy arms in development http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/index.php?pag_id=24 Thanks. Not sure I want to muck around with a 3 link... road legal in NSW :censored:

[nukblazi]

How come your driving a Left Hand Drive Jeep ???Sad but true, I am a yank, and the Jeep was in the US.

[Tombie]

Jeep = All flex is in the front

Land Rover = All flex is in the rear


This is a basic but relatively accurate summation!

[Bush65]

...You can't get much more than this out of radius arms without something like the Superior hinged arm. ...

Just for clarification, hinged arm is a bad and misleading description. The Superior arms are nothing like hinged radius arms, which have a bad reputation. They make one arm with the bushes at the axle end closer together to allow more flex.

[goingbush]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/02/686.jpg

[LowRanger]

Just for clarification, hinged arm is a bad and misleading description. The Superior arms are nothing like hinged radius arms, which have a bad reputation. They make one arm with the bushes at the axle end closer together to allow more flex.

And Superior arms aren't available for Land Rovers "Yet"

[LowRanger]

Right... so... here is a pic of my old daily driver. 2005 Jeep TJ Unlimited Rubicon (with short arms).

How do I get my '96 D110 to the same level? I don't want to get more technical than that. Is this possible? (Yes). What to I need to achieve the same articulation?

This is 4" lift with Rubicon Express Shocks/ Bilstein 5150 shocks and a lot of custom suspension/ steering... 33x12.5x15

The question is,do you want a ramp queen,or do you want a suspension setup that really works?
With a Land Rover it is all about getting a balanced setup between the front and rear suspension.Which is why you very rarely see Land Rovers winning ramp contests,and why you always hear people commenting as to how well Land Rovers work offroad.

[justinc]

Exactly that. All 'Ramp Queen' vehicles I have seen are undriveable and dangerous at speed. The Landie is just an allround perfect fit.

JC

[LowRanger]

here is my ramp queen https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/02/689.jpg I could have driven to the top without too much trouble,but was asked in the interests of safety to remain where I was,as I had already won:D

And it can still do this sort of thing and more,off road;)https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/02/690.jpg
But I do admit that my Tdi doesn't go fast enough to worry about high speed handling:D
So do things properly and you can have your Jeep and eat it too;)

[goingbush]

Wayne, OT but whats the snorkle head in the pic on the ramp ??

thanks ..Don

[Bush65]

I agree balance between front and back is the goal, but hard (next to impossible) to achieve with radius arms and stock suspension mounts.

[blitz]

have a look at these guys - they appear to be well thought out

www.x-eng.co.uk (http://www.x-eng.co.uk)

cheers Blyhte

[Bush65]

have a look at these guys - they appear to be well thought out

www.x-eng.co.uk (http://www.x-eng.co.uk)

cheers Blyhte
Simon does think these things out well.

Unfortunately making the rear articulate better doesn't address the articulation balance between front and rear - the rear articulation comes at the expense of front articulation (i.e. the chassis and body stay/roll with the front axle).

[nukblazi]

The question is,do you want a ramp queen,or do you want a suspension setup that really works?
With a Land Rover it is all about getting a balanced setup between the front and rear suspension.Which is why you very rarely see Land Rovers winning ramp contests,and why you always hear people commenting as to how well Land Rovers work offroad.I don't want a ramp queen. I want to be able to follow you into, and out of the woods. The truck is already without swaybars, has OME 751 Front & 755 rear springs, nitrocharger shocks, and 235/85/16. I don't want too much lift. I don't want to look badass cruising around Sydney.

So, the Superior arms look cool. Great, will keep an eye out for what happens and who uses them when they come out. I am unlikely to be an early adopter.

Jeep was well balanced... I could roll through medium difficultly rock gardens and the vehicle was level. I won't be going as nuts with the landy. Since I don't know them well, I don't know which manufacturers are crap, which modifications are a waste, etc. Would like to know where the right balance is, and I would like to do it right, the first time around. :)

[rick130]

I agree balance between front and back is the goal, but hard (next to impossible) to achieve with radius arms and stock suspension mounts.

As John said, it's hard to balance the front and rear roll rates as the radius arms increase roll stiffness as they articulate (through bush distortion)

A fix for a while was some bushes made by a company in Queensland that allowed the bushes to displace the distorted rubber more easily, but AFAIA Haultech no longer make them and I doubt if they still have stock.

I used them and they worked well, but they also wore out more quickly than stock ones too, just the nature of the design.

A number of us use longer front dampers, usually TLC 80 Series Koni's or OME's and raise the towers to get more droop without limiting bump travel but a little over 10"-11" of stroke seems about the maximum amount of travel you'll get out of a relatively standard front end.

[LowRanger]

Wayne, OT but whats the snorkle head in the pic on the ramp ??

thanks ..Don

Don

The Raised Air Intake head in that picture is a Sy-Klone,it is the current head that I run on the old truck.And I must say that I am very impressed.I used to go through an air filter every 2-3 trips into the dust hills around here,and I found this to be quite expensive after a while.I was doing a bit of investigating about finding an alternative to the "ramhead" which just let in dust and leaves and sticks and half trees :DThen I read a report by "Nugget" on here,and his thought on the Sy-Klone that he fitted to his Puma.So I did a lot more investigating and spoke to them direct.After working out which head I required by the airflow required,I ordered it and it arrived in 2 days from QLD and I haven't had to replace a filter again,since I fitted a genuine filter at the same time as the head.At over $30 each,it doesn't take long to recoup the cost of the head.I have been more than impressed.It may not look fancy like a nice big "RamHead" but like the rest of the truck,I will take function over looks ,any time.

[rick130]

[snip]
but like the rest of the truck,I will take function ove looks ,any time.

Next thing you'll tell us you actually take the 110 bush and use it for what it's designed to do :D

[LowRanger]

Next thing you'll tell us you actually take the 110 bush and use it for what it's designed to do :D

Me....Naaaahhhh never.I just use it as a test bed for my money:D

[LowRanger]

I agree balance between front and back is the goal, but hard (next to impossible) to achieve with radius arms and stock suspension mounts.

Agreed John,that is why I use different mounts and shocks,and retained rear springs.I have worked out with modified turrets on the front,that I should be able to fully utilise 13"travel shocks,as the 11 1/2" travel shocks limit the drop by at least 1 1/2 -2" on my truck.It is always a continuous quest for that little bit more though.I have a couple more things that I am looking at,that I will hopefully get around to.I am fairly happy with how it works offroad now,as it is very stable and fairly competent,and the major drawback is really the diff clearance under the Salisbury,but have been thinking about helping that a bit more than I already have,just need to find someone that I trust to do some welding,as I don't have access to a decent welder since I left the industry.

[nukblazi]

Agreed John,that is why I use different mounts and shocks,and retained rear springs.I have worked out with modified turrets on the front,that I should be able to fully utilise 13"travel shocks,as the 11 1/2" travel shocks limit the drop by at least 1 1/2 -2" on my truck.It is always a continuous quest for that little bit more though.I have a couple more things that I am looking at,that I will hopefully get around to.I am fairly happy with how it works offroad now,as it is very stable and fairly competent,and the major drawback is really the diff clearance under the Salisbury,but have been thinking about helping that a bit more than I already have,just need to find someone that I trust to do some welding,as I don't have access to a decent welder since I left the industry.

Either all your setups are well guarded secrets or I am not asking the right questions. :confused: But what I take from that is, there are not simple solutions, no easy kits.

[rick130]

[snip]

But what I take from that is, there are not simple solutions, no easy kits.

This ;)

Surprisingly Low Ranger's and my front ends are pretty similar, right down to the bushes we use, Wayne just uses longer springs and dampers.
Eventually I hope to try some 12"travel shocks and longer/softer springs to see how they go, but it might be too much of a compromise for on road use as mines a work truck 90% of the time.

[LowRanger]

Either all your setups are well guarded secrets or I am not asking the right questions. :confused: But what I take from that is, there are not simple solutions, no easy kits.

My answer to this is "STAY AWAY FROM KIT SUSPENSION" !!!!;)

[Grimace]

Yes..



http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/1461/dsc00678mediumh.jpg

[goingbush]

Grimace, hope you dont mind me putting your pic thru photoshop, but I cant see in the dark.

great articulation, not a bad effort


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/601.jpg

[Grimace]

Grimace, hope you dont mind me putting your pic thru photoshop, but I cant see in the dark.

great articulation, not a bad effort


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/601.jpg

lol, you can see I really need to sort out my front brake lines... :blush:

[rick130]

lol, you can see I really need to sort out my front brake lines... :blush:

Hahaha, droop limiters !

[LowRanger]

Hahaha, droop limiters !

What :eek:Not drink so much:D;)

[rick130]

What :eek:Not drink so much:D;)

:lol2:

[nukblazi]

:cool: well done folks.

For now, I've replaced almost all bushings with stock, replaced all tie-rod ends and pitman arm as they were toast. Going to go with what she came with for now, OME 751 & 755, but Bilstein instead of the OME Nitros.

5150's, what were on the Jeep, are tops $150 ea in the US. I was quoted about $1k per corner over here... ouch.

[Bush65]

Get them from the US, eshocks (http://www.eshocks.com/) for example.

[LowRanger]

:cool: well done folks.

For now, I've replaced almost all bushings with stock, replaced all tie-rod ends and pitman arm as they were toast. Going to go with what she came with for now, OME 751 & 755, but Bilstein instead of the OME Nitros.

5150's, what were on the Jeep, are tops $150 ea in the US. I was quoted about $1k per corner over here... ouch.

Before you order them,don't forget to check both the Open/Closed lengths or you will destroy them very quickly,and limit your suspension travel.

[nukblazi]

Get them from the US, eshocks (http://www.eshocks.com/) for example. Plan on giving them a ring tomorrow. I am unsure of the length to get at the moment. I have the stated lift specs for the springs, but I am not sure where the vehicle will sit when loaded.

The 5165s look damn sexy... $180 ea. eshocks.com: Off-Road Shocks: Bilstein 5165 Series Shocks (http://www.eshocks.com/bil_Orsb.asp?Series_Index=7Q1&Manf=All&SubChar=Q)

[LowRanger]

Plan on giving them a ring tomorrow. I am unsure of the length to get at the moment. I have the stated lift specs for the springs, but I am not sure where the vehicle will sit when loaded.

The 5165s look damn sexy... $180 ea. eshocks.com: Off-Road Shocks: Bilstein 5165 Series Shocks (http://www.eshocks.com/bil_Orsb.asp?Series_Index=7Q1&Manf=All&SubChar=Q)

Don't forget with shocks like this,that they don't come in a pin/pin configuration for the front,so you would have to have them modified or run an eye/pin adaptor,which needs to be taken into consideration when calculating open/closed lengths.
I wouldn't be going off "stated lift specs" for your springs either,or you may just end up with a bunch of shocks that don't allow the vehicle to flex at all without doing damage.
There is a lot more to setting up a Land Rover suspension to get it to work,than there is in a Jeep,unfortunately.

[Bush65]

Before you order them,don't forget to check both the Open/Closed lengths or you will destroy them very quickly,and limit your suspension travel.
Unless one modifies the mounts to suit the shockie lengths.

[LowRanger]

Unless one modifies the mounts to suit the shockie lengths.

Either way,you still need to measure to be able to calculate the mods required ;)

[nukblazi]

Always wanted one. Still happy I have it. Cursing the day I bought it. Am I in yet?

No seriously I love it. I really do. I stop when I am walking away just to look at it one more time, and my gf punches me. It's what I get for dating an Irish girl :) love her though. The girl, not the truck.

Err... about measuring for the adapter, check. Modifying mounts, done it before, would prefer to avoid it. Will outsource the problem to someone who's done it before, and pay for the service. :angel: