Holden 161

[gunguy]

just bought a Series 3 with a 161 red motor, running but rough, compression testing in the next few days. whats the thoughts on these motors, worth a rebuild if needed, or jump up to a 186, 202. seems like it is a closer size to the original motor than the others.
cheers
George

[Chris72]

Hi George, you could always put a series 3 motor back in it here a link for a cheap 1 on ebay

eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261172695653'ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_1414)

Cheers Chris

[gunguy]

Thats probably the way i'll go if the 161 proves to be a rebuild

[Hoges]

The 161-202 red engines are easy to work on and reasonable for parts. Also they develop their max torque around 2000 rpm... a 202 has excellent torque of 267 Nm vs 207Nm for the 161 plus an additional 21HP (16kw). They are quite forgiving and ultra reliable once set up properly.

If it's running rough, but the compression is OK, I'd be looking at straightforward stuff like the electrics/carby etc.

[Grumbles]

Way back when I bought a new 1974 HQ Belmont sedan with the 161 engine. Great engine. After 200,000 klicks it still went like it was day one. It's an understressed engine so it can be long lived.

[101RRS]

I had a 161 in my series 1 - ran well, was reasonably economical, and handled sitting on the redline in all gears - just listen for the valve bounce and back off a little. Just went on and on.

If running OK - leave it in a SWB as they are a good little engine.

Garry

[Series3 GT]

The 161 gets a good wrap from a lot of people, the 179,186 and 202 are just as good but out of the lot I'd go for the 202 just for size, power and torque. The 202 may be a bit too powerful for the gearbox if your a little heavy on the right foot. But if the 161 is a goer keep it, if not it depends what you want your landy to be for. If its just a farm vehicle then maybe the smaller motors would be fine but if you want to keep up with the traffic get something like the 186 or 202.

[Landy Smurf]

I have heard of a few gbox and diff/axle problems from the holden motors. But as long as you dont rev it to hard you should be right.
If you are going to put another motor in go back to the land rover motor

[Hoges]

AFAIK, the 161-173-202 series had some differences from the earlier 149-179-186 series engines. There were low compression versions of the 161 and 173 cu inch engines but not the 202. The Low Comp 161 developed max torque at about 1600 rpm! but there was very little later in the rev range. With 7-bearing crankshafts, a well tuned one was ultra smooth, especially if you fitted a Jap carburettor like an aisan or denso. By comparison, the standard Holden carby was "agricultural" to say the least....

[gunguy]

Just did the compression test, what insightful reverlations do these numbers give the learned forum members :D:D:D
Cylinder 1: 127 2: 127 3: 125 4: 110 5: 127 6: 140.
Cylinder 4 and 6 were tested twice.

any thoughts

[Homestar]

Just did the compression test, what insightful reverlations do these numbers give the learned forum members :D:D:D
Cylinder 1: 127 2: 127 3: 125 4: 110 5: 127 6: 140.
Cylinder 4 and 6 were tested twice.

any thoughts

Not what you would call new, but I wouldn't be upset with those figures. I would throw a kit in the carby and give the ignition the once over and enjoy it. You should be able to get it to run fine with those figures.

Cheers - Gav

[Hoges]

The "good book" in my 'library' lists the compression (hot) as 130-170psi so the numbers you have are OK. I'd suggest you put a squirt of oil into each cylinder and repeat the exercise, noting how the compression gauge registers. If the pressure builds very quickly then plateaus, it indicates excellent sealing from both piston rings and valves. If it takes a while to reach max then there's a bit of a leak somewhere. If having squirted the oil in you get a higher reading, then it indicates rings.

Depending on how far you want to take it, it's not a big job to remove the head. You could probably get away with a DIY valve grind and add new stem seals, carby overhaul kit, new points/plugs/HT leads and you're good to go!

good luck!

[russellrovers]

Thats probably the way i'll go if the 161 proves to be a rebuild
ihave a 161 in workshop 5.000 miles only spare to requirements pm if interested

[Bigbjorn]

My workshop manual gives a 161 as producing 114hp @ 4600 rpm and 157 lb.ft @ 2000 rpm. Compression pressure (hot) 130 -170 psi. So on the face of it, with only one cylinder within specification, your engine appears well worn.

[mick88]

The Holden Red 161 ci or 2600 cc are a good donk.
Reasonable power and good economy so enjoy it!
Cheap enough if you have to reco it too!


Cheers, Mick.

[Chris72]

Try this to help free up gummed rings, squirt a small amount of transmission fluid in each cylinder, leave to soak into and around rings for a day or so, then start up motor it will blow a little bit of white smoke until the transmission fluid burn off, warm up engine and repeat the compression test on a hot motor. If you don't want to use trans fluid you can buy a product that does the same thing.

Cheers Chris

[Hoges]

Just did the compression test, what insightful reverlations do these numbers give the learned forum members :D:D:D
Cylinder 1: 127 2: 127 3: 125 4: 110 5: 127 6: 140.
Cylinder 4 and 6 were tested twice.

any thoughts

Just occured to me: Were these numbers obtained from a cold engine or was it at operating temp. If they were done "cold" then you ought probably fire it up and run for a while to get it hot, then do the readings again and use those results. Don't forget to remove all the plugs first and get someone to turn the engine over using a wideopen throttle while you manage the compression gauge. As mentioned previously, the behaviour of the gauge needle can provide a good indication of condition of rings/valves...

[gunguy]

OK. Some new numbers from a warm engine,
1: = 135
2: = 139
3: = 141
4: = 120
5: = 135
6: = 148
I will be getting new valve seats etc so the motor will run unleaded, so i should probably get the block honed and new rings, bearings and seals while I'm at it. This is going to be the daily drive. any thoughts on these new numbers though.
cheers
George

[Chris72]

I Would definitely rebuild the bottom end if your going to do the head, with those's numbers and a reco head the rings would have much life left in them, you won't really know what needs to be done until you get it all pulled down, eg bearing, rings, de-ridge the bores and hone, also cam and cam bearings, at a guess for a complete rebuild will cost about a $1000 if you do most of the work yourself. I may be cheaper to find another motor thats a known good runner.

Cheers Chris

[Hoges]

OK. Some new numbers from a warm engine,
1: = 135
2: = 139
3: = 141
4: = 120
5: = 135
6: = 148
I will be getting new valve seats etc so the motor will run unleaded, so i should probably get the block honed and new rings, bearings and seals while I'm at it. This is going to be the daily drive. any thoughts on these new numbers though.
cheers
George

Definitely at the lower end of "normal". Depending on the amount of wear, just getting the block honed may not be sufficient... might need reboring and honing.... also the oil pump probably needs to be replaced...and on it goes:o FWIW, have you thought about pricing a properly 'remanufactured' (long) engine on an exchange basis... ?

[Homestar]

What sort of use is the engine going to see? If it is just going to be a weekender, then I wouldn't even worry about it. A few pounds down on compression won't worry an old red motor. It may not have the same power it had when new, but it isn't going to stop either. I've seen a lot worse that still run fine. I would be surprised if the one in my Series III was still in spec, but it runs fine and I won't be touching it.

Just my 2 cents...

[Sheppie]

my missus had a HR premier with a 186 in it when i met her - it was her grandmothers.
Anyway we still have it and boy are they simple. 3 on the tree and no synchro in first - made for great fun in sydney traffic when I was an apprentice :)
My first series 3 had a 186 as well.
Bit hard at times to get a block that hasnt been bored out these days im told.
Dunno if there was ever anyone putting EFI onto them?

[gunguy]

What sort of use is the engine going to see? If it is just going to be a weekender, then I wouldn't even worry about it. A few pounds down on compression won't worry an old red motor. It may not have the same power it had when new, but it isn't going to stop either. I've seen a lot worse that still run fine. I would be surprised if the one in my Series III was still in spec, but it runs fine and I won't be touching it.

Just my 2 cents...

will be the daily drive, mostly local 20,50kms day but the occasional long run, 5-6 hours to Dubbo. stripping the vehicle back to the chassis to do it up anyway, so the motor will be out, dont really want to stick it back in and have to pull it in a month. guess I have answered my own question huh:o:o:o:o:o

[lyonsy]

if your going to rebuild the engine then bore it out 10thou minimum as the engine will have a lip in the bore with the new rings if there seal is slightly taller then the original you have a chance of the rings catching the lip and breaking the rings lands in the pistons.
I would not be worried about those comp figures but if you had one at 100psi or less id be a little more concerned.
you will prob find the old points dizzy may be playing or the points them self for running rough

anther option for you If want to reduce the weight over the axle is a ford crossflow 4.1 head if you turn the head 180deg to how ford have it they require very little mods to make them work. will save around 40kg

also if it still has a Stromberg carby on it get rid of it and put a Webber from a xd/xe falcon on it or even better again a v6 Capri Webber carby both will make the engine much more fuel efficient.

[sdt463]

Dunno if there was ever anyone putting EFI onto them?

I did see a couple of Holden motors with primitive EFI just before the release
of the VL with the Nissan motor. Fairly sure late model 202 VK's had it but I do not know if it was standard.
Dave

[Homestar]

I did see a couple of Holden motors with primitive EFI just before the release
of the VL with the Nissan motor. Fairly sure late model 202 VK's had it but I do not know if it was standard.
Dave

Yep, VK Black motors were all EFI from the factory.

[Davehoos]

EFI was an option for VK-only available originally in auto-and fitted with manual by special request.

EFI replaced 4.2 V8 and gave XU1 power.