Koni Shock absorbers

[uninformed]

Hey all, I thought Id start a thread for Koni shocks. Somewhere we can gather specs and information being it bolt on OEM application through to sourcing other vehicle type/make konis and how they work. If you like another brand, feel free to start a Bilstein, etc thread. I'd like to keep this one Koni only, so not to get into brand wars and have a bugger of a time searching for the Koni information.

We need:
part numers
open closed lengths
vehicle it is mounted on
what they are originally off.
type of top/bottom mount
valving if possible
any other comments

[uninformed]

about 6 years ago I rang Toperformance in Vic and asked them to sort me a shock. I wanted 12inch stroke, eye top, pin bottom and LR valving. They came back with the following and I got it through GSA, their closest retailer to me.

Part# 88 1262SP2
Open 782mm, Closed 475mm (center of eye, to center of smooth shank on pin end)
1998 Landrover Defender 110 C/Chassis
Merceded Truck/Bus front ( I will confirm asap)
Originally eye-eye, but converted to eye-pin
Valving: Rebound 3300nm/s, Bump 600nm/s

I have just spoken to Toperformance and they are going to dig out the specs to see if they changed the valving on mine. I think they will have as their LR Def specs are: Rebound 1750nm/s, Bump 900nm/s. I personaly feel that what ever they are they have a little too much bump (harsh), but that is a factor that spring rate will change the feel of also. (Note: They did not revalve my custom rears)

Note, that any longer shock like this requires the careful checking of closed length vs mounting length at full bump/stuff articulation, including allowing for bumpstop compression. This usually means rasing the top mount and/or packing the bumpstop (lots of way to skin a cat and alot are personal choices)

This particular shock will not bolt straight on without modifications or damage will occur.

[uninformed]

82 series

oil filled twin tube, some have a small amount of nitrogen, some dont.

50/55mm body (eg my Toyota 80 series are 50mm body)
33mm piston (can varry a little)
16mm shaft dia

88 series

Oil filled twin tube

55mm body
36mm piston
16mm shaft dia

90 Series (what Koni Raid are based on)

Twin tube oil filled, no nitrogen. Internal hydraulic rebound stop.

70mm body
18mm shaft
42mm Piston

The dust sheild, which is the larger dia metal cylinder, usually top half of shock, is going to be bigger dia than the shock body.

Feel free to correct any wrong into I have posted

[uninformed]

currently Im running Koni 82 2385 which I believe are Toyota 80 series +2inch lift.

Part# 82 2385
Open: Closed:
Land Rover Defender 1998
Toyota Landcrusier 80 series
pin/pin
valving: Rebound 2600nm/s Bump 1000nm/s

Stock defender replacement from Koni would be 82 401181SPX. Valving for these are: Rebound 1300nm/s Bump 600nm/s

[rick130]

Serg, what shaft speed are those forces at ?

Bilstein uses a stupid high shaft speed to rate their shocks, and it gives no indication of the shape of the curve at all, it's just a point on a graph.

I got into all sorts of grief with a certain Bilstein rebuilder years ago with some race shocks as they couldn't get their heads around what I was asking for and I ended up with stuff I wanted at 3-4"/sec at something over 20"/sec.
They seemed incapable at the time of running their machine at any speed other than flat out.
I'm guessing instead of a force/velocity curve they were working on and generating displacement/force graphs at a fixed speed, which is something Koni used to mainly use too.

I should have foot valve (bump valve) part numbers for the 82-2385 somewhere.

[uninformed]

I have no idea :D I did ask if there was any other info but was just told Newton meters per second.?????

I dont expect it to mean anything to me (pea brain) but if we know the numbers for stock Koni replacements, I figured it would give us something to shoot for if getting Toperfromance or Proven Suspension etc to revalve another Koni shock for our trucks.

After my last phone call with Toperformance, they seem reluctant to do what they did for me 6 years ago :( A time/$$ thing really. I did say that if I have a list of the 88/90 series shocks they stock, with open/closed lengths and what type of end (pin or eye) That I would do the leg work for them....again they were not interested :(

I did find a massive list for Koni Truck shocks, and was able to use Koni's crossreference link to get open closed lengths and end type. But the main problem with this is alot of these shocks are not carried here in Oz.

The whole point of this, for me anyway. Is to be able to use a good quality Koni, hopefuly a bit more HD than stock (ie 88 or 90) and get the travel we want.

I did try to tell them that I was well aware that the closed lengths would mean not a bolt in application and that it was common on our LR.....but I think the guy was sceptical about that. :mad:

[Dougal]

Koni 30-1426 Heavy Track.
Pin-Pin style, original fitment is 80 series landcruiser front.
These are monotube high pressure gas/hydraulic with 4 step rebound adjust.

If I measure over the steps at the base of each pin, they are 364mm closed and 584mm fully open.
That's 220mm (8.7") stroke.

They stroke perfectly with extended front bump-stops, longer brake lines and 420mm free-length springs. If you don't extend the bump-stops, you'll need to raise the towers or use much thinner bushings.

I don't have any specs for the damping force, but I run them wound open on 180lb/in springs and ~1150kg front axle weight. I would like a little less compression damping and a lot less rebound so I can use the middle of the adjustment range.

[rick130]

82-2385

TLC 80 Series fronts.

Base of pin to base of pin.

Open. 617mm

Closed. 370mm



It's possible to get some more travel with a slightly shorter closed length on any Koni twin tube by shortening the internal rebound adjuster, but you then lose the external adjustability.

[rick130]

Just for reference, some old (superseded) Koni Land Rover coiler dampers and dimensions.

84-1190

Front for RRC/Disco 1/90/110/127/130

Open. 540mm

Closed. 322mm

84-1186

Front for RRC EAS.

Opened. 568mm

Closed. 342mm

84-1189

Rear, RRC, Disco 1, 90/110/130

Opened. 563mm

Closed. 346mm

[rick130]

Raid 90-5401

Rear 110/130 for raised suspension from VIN XA159807 onwards (but in my experience can be used on earlier ones, IIRC it's just the bush washers/cups that are different)


Opened. 607mm

Closed. 391mm

Cheap buggers, all they did was add a longer shaft, the body length is the same as the 90-5375 so travel is identical. ie. stock :(

[rick130]

90-5383

Front Merc G-Wagen W460 pin/pin.

Opened. 632mm

Closed. 385mm

[rick130]

FWIW I re-valved my 82-2385's years ago, IMO the bump valving was too harsh.

I think I ended up with an 82 14 28 009 foot (bump) valve, but do recall re-shimming several too. (in this case, increasing the stack thickness reduced the pre-load on the foot valve, reducing low speed bump)
Koni call the bump valve a foot valve as it's housed at the end of the pressure tube at the base of the damper.

The bump valve works by metering the fluid displaced by the shaft as it enters the damper body.(eg. in response to a bump, body roll, etc)

[Dougal]

Just for reference, some old (superseded) Koni Land Rover coiler dampers and dimensions.

84-1190

Front for RRC/Disco 1/90/110/127/130

Open. 540mm

Closed. 322mm

To go with those
84-1124 RRC fronts.

~530mm open, 315mm closed.

Allegedly rally specials. If you don't have 300lb/in springs and get airborne then these will be way too stiff. With a 4BD1T on top they were still harsh.

I have a molested pair here if anyone wants them. I cut the stone-shields off for access and tried to revalve them but with an oil change went too firm. So I replaced them with the longer 80 series 30-1426 and gave up.
Everything is still there inside, just in the wrong order and with too much preload on the foot-valve.

[Dougal]

Koni 2006 Italian Catalogue Here: Read File BASE per Catalogo 2006 - 10 marzo 2006 - impaginato.xls (http://www.readbag.com/weiss-it-cataloghi-koni-weiss-catalogo-generale-2006)

It lists landrover replacements from 1954 onwards.

I have printed it out as a PDF which isn't searchable and I can't extract text, any way to extract it as the original .XLS?

[Vern]

Currently I'm running cheapy shocks (gu/80 series combo) with lengths of;
Front open 665
Front closed 425
Rear open 650
Rear closed 390
All measured from centre of eye or pin.

I'm trying to find the equivelent to these lengths (or longer) in a heavy track raid 90.
So was wondering if anyone has part numbers for these and open and closed lenghts?
Have searched but no real luck online:(

Thanks

[rick130]

Damien, you measure centre of eye but from the base of the pin.

That's how Koni and Bilstein measure their shocks and might make those G-Wagen ones look a little more attractive ;)

I've got the Koni Truck catalogue here too in PDF, it lists the open/closed length of every 90 Series they make. Serg found it somewhere and I was only just looking through it. Hopefully its uploaded OK.

[Vern]

Thanks rick, I measured mine centre of bush to centre of bush. Look forward to seeing the catalogue:)

[rick130]

Deleted

[Vern]

Rick, had a look through the catalogue which is great. Just need to know what I should be looking for in the bump/rebound columns?

[rick130]

Damien, I'd just buy the one that fits in terms of open/closed lengths and end fittings, then get the foot valve and rebound spring (and adjuster nut ??) changed to the 110 Raid ones here.


All those listed are for trucks/trailers and miles too stiff for what we need.

I found some 11.5" to 12.5" stroke versions last night in eye/eye and pin/pin for US$158.00.
Proven Products used to only charge around $80 to rebuild/revalve last time I asked Jeff (when I was buying parts) Admittedly that was quite a few years ago now.

[Dougal]

90-5383

Front Merc G-Wagen W460 pin/pin.

Opened. 632mm

Closed. 385mm

Any idea what weight and spring rates they have been designed around?

[Vern]

Damien, I'd just buy the one that fits in terms of open/closed lengths and end fittings, then get the foot valve and rebound spring (and adjuster nut ??) changed to the 110 Raid ones here.


All those listed are for trucks/trailers and miles too stiff for what we need.

I found some 11.5" to 12.5" stroke versions last night in eye/eye and pin/pin for US$158.00.
Proven Products used to only charge around $80 to rebuild/revalve last time I asked Jeff (when I was buying parts) Admittedly that was quite a few years ago now.

Any chance you can point me in the direction of those shocks? Are they a 90?

[rick130]

Any idea what weight and spring rates they have been designed around?

Nope, only that they are for the front of a G-Wagen.

[rick130]

Any chance you can point me in the direction of those shocks? Are they a 90?

Ring Jeff at proven products and ask how much to re-valve a 90 to the right valving first.


Pin/pin 90-5055-SP2, 27.09"open, 15.71" closed, 11.38" travel, https://sdparts.com/details/koni-shock-absorbers/kon90-5055-sp2

Pin/pin 90-2589, 30.75"open, 18.23"closed, 12.52"travel, https://sdparts.com/details/koni-shock-absorbers/kon90-2589

eye/eye 90-2588, 31.85"open, 19.45"closed, 12.4" travel, https://sdparts.com/details/koni-shock-absorbers/kon90-2588

[MLD]

Thanks Rick130 and Uninformed for all that info. It's timely for me having to replace my now worn out shocks.

The perplexing issue for us mere mortals venturing out of the manufacturer recommendation is how to reconcile the various available open and closed lengths (ignoring the travel for the moment) for a certain application. In my situation I plan to fit the Gwyn Lewis challenge kit using Koni Raids in lieu of the OME sold by GL. How do you work out the open/closed length to work with the factory bump stops and the new mounting location used by GL (or any other kit for that matter). Is there a simple (there never is) way of calculating the best O/C length for a given situation?

In search of wisdom, cheers MLD

[modman]

This is the method I use
It's not definitive but handy for comparison
Measure middle of bumpstop to middle of pad both sides and average
Measure in between shock mounts
Middle of pin in standard chassis mount (eye bush)to inside on pin mount(pin mount bush)
Take bumpstop clearance from shock clearance allow your bumpstop compression 30mm
That gives your compressed length
Before you fit shocks make sure you fully extend them and run a texta around the body, do the same fully compressed then measure half way and do the same
Again;)
The most accurate way is to remove spring and shock then cycle and measure but that's alotta work.....
Dc

[modman]

By the way after you import the truck Konis ( because top performance or proven will tear you a new one) then get either of them to revalve for your specific LR(still tearing) its probably cheaper to use fox/king smoothies/resis or armada extreme resis(nice bling adjuster by the way!)
Maybe Rick would experiment in his part time retirement??
Dc

[rick130]

By the way after you import the truck Konis ( because top performance or proven will tear you a new one) then get either of them to revalve for your specific LR(still tearing) its probably cheaper to use fox/king smoothies/resis or armada extreme resis(nice bling adjuster by the way!)
Maybe Rick would experiment in his part time retirement??
Dc

Work out what you need and buy through Proven's or Toperformance :D
Problem solved !

I've always bought my Koni's through Proven's, Serg got his 88 Series rears from Toperformance.

The big advantage with the twin tubes is a better open/closed length than the mono-tubes, and more so since Bilstein have done away with the weld-top option on their 9100 Series.
All the aluminium end mount/cap mono-tubes are looooong.

And what's this part time retirement BS Dave?

I wish, but I can't find a woman who'll keep me in the manner I want to become accustomed to !

[Bush65]

IMHO the maximum permissible closed length is the important specification for choosing what shockie will fit. The open length is of academic interest.

The closed length and the construction/design of the shockie determine what open length (and travel) can be obtained. For a particular shockie, the open length will be, what it will be, after selection based upon closed length.

Some designs will allow more travel than others, but be aware, unless more expensive design is employed a few mm more may be at the expense of durability, etc. For example having a remote reservoir will free up some internal space inside the body of a shockie to allow longer travel, but they are more expensive and the reservoir has to be mounted somehow (extra travel is not the only advantage of the remote reservoir).

Since you have already decided on the rest of your suspension, if I were you I would:

Position the GL upper shockie mount on one side, so you have something to measure to/from.

With the suspension spring removed on that side, use a jack to articulate the axle so it is against the bump stop.

Measure the distance between the GL upper shockie mount and the lower mount on the axle.

Subtract an allowance for compression of the bump stop.

The closed length of your new shockies need to be less than that measurement.

Then check the open length specification of a shockie having a suitable closed length.

While the axle is in the articulated position (used for the closed length measurement) Measure the open length on the other side as a check to see if you have the axle articulated enough. If not the closed length may shorten up when the axles articulates further.

If the upper shockie mount was to be made to suit a chosen shockie, then I would have used a different approach.

[modman]

I was quoted $300 plus for truck based 90's then I think Jeff got annoyed when I wanted them revalve them as well:(
I get that a lot when I buy new gear and want it modded in house.
I've had Konis rebuilt and modified for a race car at top performance and happy with their work and advice
I WOULD prefer looooong 90's with extended mounts front and back, but bili rr7100 through e shock can be had for almost half the price and would probably do the job pretty well
I always thought short body 12' rr Billis had good O/C lengths??
David

[Vern]

E shocks can get you koni's but they need to come from something sold in the US and you need to get them part numbers.

[MLD]

Thanks John, is the methodology the same for the front? The GL kit is a +2 inch front shock tower. The GL kit supplies the OME 60070L (80 series front) shock with 11" travel. Would I be dabbling with negative fate if I used the OME closed length as the comparable closed length.

Addressing your second last paragraph, would it be necessary to remove the shock and spring to allow the axle to drop under its own weight to get the max articulation? At present the open length of the old shock would be the limiting factor of drop and the new shocks hopefully would be longer travel.

If I get a solution I will be able to contribute to the post with some experienced data on the model number suitable for my given application.

cheers MLD

[davidsonsm]

Can anybody tell me the compression and extended dimensions for the koni heavy track 30-1597 & 8. As suitable for the P38. I've trawled through all of the information that seems to be available and come up empty handed.

[Vern]

David, did ypu check the pdf rick posted up? Not sure if it does the 30 series shock though

[Vern]

Thanks John, is the methodology the same for the front? The GL kit is a +2 inch front shock tower. The GL kit supplies the OME 60070L (80 series front) shock with 11" travel. Would I be dabbling with negative fate if I used the OME closed length as the comparable closed length.

Addressing your second last paragraph, would it be necessary to remove the shock and spring to allow the axle to drop under its own weight to get the max articulation? At present the open length of the old shock would be the limiting factor of drop and the new shocks hopefully would be longer travel.

If I get a solution I will be able to contribute to the post with some experienced data on the model number suitable for my given application.

cheers MLD

MLD, those figures i posted up are for 80 series/gu patrol combo, just not koni, but they are open closed lengths for ridepro shocks. Can get ridepro part numbers if this helps

[davidsonsm]

David, did ypu check the pdf rick posted up? Not sure if it does the 30 series shock though

Yeah. There are no dimensions shown in that pdf for the 30 series shocks. Seems odd given the document does make reference to them in other sections.

[rick130]

Can anybody tell me the compression and extended dimensions for the koni heavy track 30-1597 & 8. As suitable for the P38. I've trawled through all of the information that seems to be available and come up empty handed.

I'm away ATM with limited 'net and 'puter time and don't have my Koni info with me either but will look when I get home in a few days.

Dave, 7100's have better/shorter closed/open length than the 9100's in the same travel, and for what we do are a fine damper.

Jeff has freely given me a bucket load of info over the years and I've bought a fair few parts off him (valves, seals, piston bands, etc) but haven't spoken to him for five-six years or so.
He had something like six dyno's running there in Albury when I last spoke to him.
Rick Kemp at Toperformance was great too, but I don't think he's there now or has been for many years. One of the other blokes (the owner ?) and I had a good old 'discussion' once on valving :D
I thought he was missing the boat big time, but declined to tell him where :angel:

[Bush65]

Thanks John, is the methodology the same for the front? The GL kit is a +2 inch front shock tower. The GL kit supplies the OME 60070L (80 series front) shock with 11" travel. Would I be dabbling with negative fate if I used the OME closed length as the comparable closed length.

Addressing your second last paragraph, would it be necessary to remove the shock and spring to allow the axle to drop under its own weight to get the max articulation? At present the open length of the old shock would be the limiting factor of drop and the new shocks hopefully would be longer travel.

If I get a solution I will be able to contribute to the post with some experienced data on the model number suitable for my given application.

cheers MLD
The shockies that GL supplies with his kit should have a suitable closed length.

For some reason +2" is a common lift height for aftermarket suspension kits. It appeared to me to be common practice in the UK to lower the upper shockie mount by 2" if the suspension was raised 2". This allows the existing shockie to work with the same bump and rebound travel as before. But the bump stop needs to be lowered to prevent damage to the shockie on bump.

Here the practice was to fit shockies with 2" more travel, so the bump travel increases by 2" and the rebound travel remains the same. Now a shockie with 2" more travel has to have a body that is approximately 2" longer (to accommodate the extra stroke) so the closed length is 2" longer (and the open length 4" longer). This will necessitate moving the upper mount up 2". And is becoming the norm in the UK.

Be aware though that some people (I'm not saying this applies to GL) reduce the safety margin and don't raise the mount by the full 2", so they can get a bit more rebound travel.

I have not gone through the exercise of measuring the closed length of Landcruiser shockies to see how far the upper mount on a Land Rover needs to be raised to suit them.

I will stick with my previous suggestion if you want to choose the best open and closed length. You should be ok going with the Landcruiser lengths, but then you will not know if it could have been better with another available shockie.

Use the same approach, as per my previous post, for both front or rear.

The basis is that you never want a shockie to reach its closed length during a severe bump, or else it will get damaged and fail. You want the bump stop to limit the bump travel of the axle. However you have to allow for compression of the bump stop.

In the third last paragraph I said to "check the open length specification of a shockie having a suitable closed length."

So you use that open length from the specification to then "Measure the open length on the other side as a check to see if you have the axle articulated enough." Unless you have retained the springs (that is a separate debate) the spring won't have prevented the articulation on the droop/rebound side, but the shockie will.

If the shockie has prevented the axle articulating so the measurement between the upper and lower mounts is less than the open length of the proposed new shockie then remove the shockie so that it does. This is to ensure your closed measurement is not adversely affected by the extra articulation. What you said is correct.

[rick130]

Further to John's post, if you try and maximise droop travel allow at least 25mm bump stop compression.
It's surprising how far they compress, 20mm is dead easy on a small hit, and with over 100mm of available bump travel I have polished axle pads just driving on the road.

Mostly you only need to raise the towers 3/4" with TLC shocks, I've been able to go a lot less through some bush modifications/selections and remember that different brands of shocks use different open/closed lengths too, you must measure, remeasure and measure again before doing any mods.
You also need to extend brake lines, and if you are running a front anti roll bar the driveshaft will now crash into it during droop, modifying one thing leads to further modifications to get the suspension to work properly.
It isn't rocket science but you have to be aware and plan carefully, observe and if possible remove the springs and cycle the suspension through full bump/droop strokes to get an idea of how it all works.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Dougal]

90-5383

Front Merc G-Wagen W460 pin/pin.

Opened. 632mm

Closed. 385mm

It looks like these are using way stiffer springs than we need:
Golly-G spring rates and testing - Mercedes-Benz Forum (http://www.benzworld.org/forums/g-class/1168758-golly-g-spring-rates-testing.html)

The stock springs appear to be 300+ lb/in. So those G wagen shocks might be the same valving as the 80 series. Not that I've measured up 80 series springs yet.
I've asked G-wagen Steve if he can confirm.

[Vern]

Ring Jeff at proven products and ask how much to re-valve a 90 to the right valving first.


Pin/pin 90-5055-SP2, 27.09"open, 15.71" closed, 11.38" travel, https://sdparts.com/details/koni-shock-absorbers/kon90-5055-sp2

Waiting on a couple of replies about these shocks, trying local first, if no help then going o/s.:)

[Vern]

Well, after asking the question on availability on these shocks locally, I got the reply that these are a transport industry shock and they have no application for them here. (Not what i asked, I asked if they could get them and how close the valving is to what I require).
I was also informed how the open/close lengths are inappropriate to a range rover (also not want I asked), and was also informed how the valving was inappropriate.
Then I was pushed towards the standard 90 series for a rover shock, not want I asked once again.
So I can either go the 80 series/gq route, import the shocks I want and have them revalved at $190 per shock, or get bilstien remote canister jobbys and make them pin to pin to suit:(.

[Dougal]

Ah the old "we know better than the customer" routine.

I can say the 80 series front shocks ride harsh unless you're loaded on warm days.

[Vern]

Yeah I have 80series in mine, just not koni. So it will cost roughly the same if I import those shocks and get them valved to suit as apposed to buying what I'm told I should buy.:mad::).

May be bilstien is a better option:(

[Dougal]

Yeah I have 80series in mine, just not koni. So it will cost roughly the same if I import those shocks and get them valved to suit as apposed to buying what I'm told I should buy.:mad::).

May be bilstien is a better option:(

I want to find a company making monotube, rebuildable shocks with rebound clickers. Is it that much to ask?

Then pick your size and pick your valving.

[rick130]

Well, after asking the question on availability on these shocks locally, I got the reply that these are a transport industry shock and they have no application for them here. (Not what i asked, I asked if they could get them and how close the valving is to what I require).
I was also informed how the open/close lengths are inappropriate to a range rover (also not want I asked), and was also informed how the valving was inappropriate.
Then I was pushed towards the standard 90 series for a rover shock, not want I asked once again.
So I can either go the 80 series/gq route, import the shocks I want and have them revalved at $190 per shock, or get bilstien remote canister jobbys and make them pin to pin to suit:(.
That's a bastard. :(

I'm ringing Superior on Monday/Tuesday and enquiring about some Profender mono tubes with adjustable bump cans as I need some new dampers sorted over the next month and I can't afford Fox or King.

[Vern]

Let me know how you go rick. All I want is something good, that won't fade, is easy to get, and rebuild able.
Got another email from Topers, yes they can revalve them at $190 a shock, but they need to establish whether the mounts suit my needs, then they go on about retaining springs, road worthiness, engineering, and that I should consult a range rover expert about all this, I should speak with Andrew Richmond!
So if I was to import my own and get them revalved it would be getting close to the $2k mark.:(

[rick130]

For a bit over US$1000 you can get King 2.5" with adjustable bump on the can for lifted Patrols !

I really wanted some 2.5" (60 or 63mm patrons, depending on brand) dampers but 2" will cope with the Deefer on a trip so that's why I'm looking at the Profenders, and rubber mounts make more sense than spherical bearings that will flog out quickly on a road going vehicle.
They still have 7/8" shafts which is what I really want (acts a little like an air spring) and I can play with the valving to my hearts content.

Just need to get something before a trip in August !

[Dougal]

How good are the pin mounts on Bilstein 7100's?

8" eshocks.com: Bilstein 7100 Series Shocks: 8 (http://www.eshocks.com/bil_ORvh.asp?Series_Index=q3&Length_Index=9q4&Manf=All&SubChar=q)

10" eshocks.com: Bilstein 7100 Series Shocks: 10 (http://www.eshocks.com/bil_ORvh.asp?Series_Index=q3&Length_Index=q8&Manf=All&SubChar=q)

Would also need a stone guard over the shaft.

[rick130]

Billie 7100's are spherical bearings either end, although Slunnie has had his converted to loop ends for urethane bushes as he kept flogging the rose joints out.

Seals It spherical bearing seals would definitely prolong the life of the bearings big time, but I'm running out of time to organise stuff and fabricating substantial bits when I don't have a workshop ATM is a PITA and just getting too hard. (I was going to mount the front dampers forward of the towers, a la the RRC air)

Down the track I wanted to play with some ideas I had years ago playing with Ohlins and Koni race shocks, and I can't do that with a 14mm shaft, I need the 7/8" shaft of the US and copy dampers.

[Vern]

How good are the pin mounts on Bilstein 7100's?

8" eshocks.com: Bilstein 7100 Series Shocks: 8 (http://www.eshocks.com/bil_ORvh.asp?Series_Index=q3&Length_Index=9q4&Manf=All&SubChar=q)

10" eshocks.com: Bilstein 7100 Series Shocks: 10 (http://www.eshocks.com/bil_ORvh.asp?Series_Index=q3&Length_Index=q8&Manf=All&SubChar=q)

Would also need a stone guard over the shaft.

Bilstein 7100 is my next option, but I need to start fabbing stuff which is not what I wanted to do, I just want to bolt the damn things in:mad:

[Dougal]

Bilstein 7100 is my next option, but I need to start fabbing stuff which is not what I wanted to do, I just want to bolt the damn things in:mad:

Factory shocks for a stop gap?

How much travel do you want/need?

[Vern]

I currently have a gq/lc combo, front has 9.5" travel, rear is 10.3". Would like around 11" + travel, with a shock that bolts straight in.
Will ring around this week I think.

[rick130]

I currently have a gq/lc combo, front has 9.5" travel, rear is 10.3". Would like around 11" + travel, with a shock that bolts straight in.
Will ring around this week I think.


Wayne/LowRanger is/was using OME 80 Series 'L' shocks for around 11.5-12" travel in the front end.

Might be a quick, dirty option ?

[Psimpson7]

How good are the pin mounts on Bilstein 7100's?

8" eshocks.com: Bilstein 7100 Series Shocks: 8 (http://www.eshocks.com/bil_ORvh.asp?Series_Index=q3&Length_Index=9q4&Manf=All&SubChar=q)

10" eshocks.com: Bilstein 7100 Series Shocks: 10 (http://www.eshocks.com/bil_ORvh.asp?Series_Index=q3&Length_Index=q8&Manf=All&SubChar=q)

Would also need a stone guard over the shaft.

We converted some 7100's to lower pins. Seems to be working fine so far.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/646.jpg

[Rickoz]

Hi guys, I guess the idea to increase travel in the Shocks is to improve the chance of getting traction, yes/no :confused:

Then why not just use Diff Locks instead :confused:

(Clearly i have no clue, so be nice).

[rick130]

Hi guys, I guess the idea to increase travel in the Shocks is to improve the chance of getting traction, yes/no :confused:

[snip]

Yes, a wheel in the air gives no traction, plus drive, say a standard Patrol vs a Defender without anti-roll bars and the extra wheel travel (if done properly) gives you so much more stability (and capability) it isn't funny.

Diff locks and modern TC can be amazing, just watch a D3/4 in action, but they are lifting wheels and rocking all over the place as their articulation is limited vs a well sorted Deefer/RRC/Disco 1/2 with diff locks.
You could also argue that having more wheels in contact with terra firma means you may be able to place the vehicle better and so avoid an unfortunate scrape or two, as well as creating less stress on the driveline.

[Rickoz]

Yes, a wheel in the air gives no traction, plus drive, say a standard Patrol vs a Defender without anti-roll bars and the extra wheel travel (if done properly) gives you so much more stability (and capability) it isn't funny.
Legally we can only raise 2", is the 50.8mm Gain worth it in the real world or to gain any real travel advantage we need to consider a much higher increase & obviously Mod Plates to suit?

[Dougal]

Legally we can only raise 2", is the 50.8mm Gain worth it in the real world or to gain any real travel advantage we need to consider a much higher increase & obviously Mod Plates to suit?

Ride height (aka lift) and suspension travel are not the same thing. You can have a low vehicle with a lot of suspension travel.
You can also have a high vehicle with very little suspension travel.

[Slunnie]

Bilstein 7100 is my next option, but I need to start fabbing stuff which is not what I wanted to do, I just want to bolt the damn things in:mad:
Vern, not sure if its been discussed, but have you considered pin-eye converters? Admittedly probably not as efficient a setup for maximising travel as a straight pin arrangement.

Snake Racing online store Australia - Shop for Trick Off Road Componentry for your 4x4, 4WD vehicle (http://snakeracing.com.au/store/convertor-p-3540.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/31.jpg

[Vern]

Wayne/LowRanger is/was using OME 80 Series 'L' shocks for around 11.5-12" travel in the front end.

Might be a quick, dirty option ?

Wonder what the koni specs are for the equivalent shock?
I have quick and dirty, now I want good shocks:)

[Vern]

We converted some 7100's to lower pins. Seems to be working fine so far.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/646.jpg

Where did you get the pins from?.

[Vern]

Vern, not sure if its been discussed, but have you considered pin-eye converters? Admittedly probably not as efficient a setup for maximising travel as a straight pin arrangement.

Snake Racing online store Australia - Shop for Trick Off Road Componentry for your 4x4, 4WD vehicle (http://snakeracing.com.au/store/convertor-p-3540.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/31.jpg

Slunnie, that's my last resort, would like to avoid that if I can.

[Psimpson7]

Where did you get the pins from?.

We made what we needed to suit the bushes etc.

[Vern]

We made what we needed to suit the bushes etc.

Ah I thought so, that's another reason to put me off the idea, less fab work the better for me:)

[Dougal]

We made what we needed to suit the bushes etc.

Is the top-end eye removable and replacable?

[Psimpson7]

Is the top-end eye removable and replacable?

Not in its entirety no.

The rose joint can be removed and replaced, and there is a bush conversion available from Bilstein apparently. The eye is welded on.

[Slunnie]

The one on the body would involve a strip down of the shock, cut and weld. The bush conversion for me was also a strip, cut, weld, rebuild. From Bilstein I'm guessing it would be a shaft replacement at the other end which is also a rebuild.

[Vern]

Well after just speaking with Andrew Richmond, he informs me that the 90 series don't fit, they hit on everything, particularly when articulating. He says the 88 series is a better shock, but is a very tight fit, which still hits as well.:(

[Slunnie]

Well after just speaking with Andrew Richmond, he informs me that the 90 series don't fit, they hit on everything, particularly when articulating. He says the 88 series is a better shock, but is a very tight fit, which still hits as well.:(
Is that front and rear? Do you know what the OD's are?

[Vern]

both, not sure on the o/d,s

[Slunnie]

Thanks. Tangent - Sounds like coilovers/Airshocks wont fit through the front perches in that case.

[Vern]

I don't have to worry about the fronts hitting the springs as I run eas turrets.

Will see if I can borrow some and see how bad they fit, have a mate with some cruiser ones he's yet to fit.

[Dougal]

Check out the damper placement on this US RRC build: KOH 2015 RRC build - Page 2 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/land-rover/1701154-koh-2015-rrc-build-2.html)

It's very tight, but he has fit coil-over dampers (without the springs screwed on) in the original front position. You might need a pirate login to view.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/23.jpg

[uninformed]

Page 1...

[rick130]

Well after just speaking with Andrew Richmond, he informs me that the 90 series don't fit, they hit on everything, particularly when articulating. He says the 88 series is a better shock, but is a very tight fit, which still hits as well.:(

Bugger.

You wonder how Koni can sell them if the space is so restrictive.

Slunnie, the OD is 70mm for the bodies, then you have the dust cover.
FWIW I machined off the dust covers on the TLC 80 Series I'm running as originally I was going to invert them and use cut down Billie bodies as an external reservoir.

[Slunnie]

Bugger.

You wonder how Koni can sell them if the space is so restrictive.

Slunnie, the OD is 70mm for the bodies, then you have the dust cover.
FWIW I machined off the dust covers on the TLC 80 Series I'm running as originally I was going to invert them and use cut down Billie bodies as an external reservoir.
Excellent, thanks for this Rick - very interesting fitment wise!

[rick130]

Serg has a pair of 88 Series on the rear and I can't recall him ever mentioning them fouling anywhere.

Beadell tours run 90 Series all round on their 110 and rave about them on their website.
Maybe a case of sponsorship ?

Haven't rung Superior yet, just drafting an email for some specific diff lube for a certain locker and finalising an order from Karcraft.

[edit] Just emailed Superior/Profender requesting open/closed lengths. Will try and ring tomorrow.

[Vern]

Yeah I've read and heard of quite a few rovers running the 90 series with no dramas, it may be a long travel thing though. But I did feel like I was being spoken down too in our conversation, I thought I'd rung jacmac for a minute there:)

[Vern]

Will be good to here how you go rick, I think I will go down this route as well, I just don't know much about the Amada or Profender shocks in regards to reliability etc.....I think Suspension Stuff deal in them as well.

[Vern]

Page 1...
Yeah typical aulro, gone off track.

[Vern]

Well spoke with suspension stuff in regards to koni 90's (back on topic), they advised that they are a massive shock and most likely will not fit, but also the longest pin to pin that they could think of are approx 620mm.
So (back off topic), the amada extreme remote canister jobbys I enquired about are 382 closed, 660open, pin to pin and $1150 for a set of 4, 11" of travel :).
The next size up where 700+ open and 438 (?) Closed which is to long in the closed position for me:(

[uninformed]

Yeah typical aulro, gone off track.

That was actually pointing slunnie to the answer to his question.

But yes going off topic in a very specific thread has shown itself by slunnie question.

[Dougal]

4wd action article on 100 series cruiser shocks. It features Koni, Bilstein, rancho etc etc.
Quite a thorough article including open/closed measurements for each and dyno charts.

http://www.euro4x4parts.com/images/4wd_action_165_tough_dog.pdf

[Vern]

Serg has a pair of 88 Series on the rear and I can't recall him ever mentioning them fouling anywhere.

Beadell tours run 90 Series all round on their 110 and rave about them on their website.
Maybe a case of sponsorship ?

Haven't rung Superior yet, just drafting an email for some specific diff lube for a certain locker and finalising an order from Karcraft.

[edit] Just emailed Superior/Profender requesting open/closed lengths. Will try and ring tomorrow.

Any luck with superior yet rick? I rang them today in regards to front arms and Amada's, they said they will get back to me.

[rick130]

Any luck with superior yet rick? I rang them today in regards to front arms and Amada's, they said they will get back to me.


No reply to the email yet and I was too damned busy to ring today.

Will try and ring tomorrow.

[Vern]

OK will post up what I find out from them, I'm enquiring about an 11" stroke (min)and 400mm closed length, pin to pin and valved to suit:)

[Vern]

Well Rick??
I didn't get my call back today:(

[Vern]

Still waiting! How did you get on rick?.

[rick130]

I didn't call but they haven't return emailed me either :(

[GeeDee]

Hi all, I just found this amazingly informative thread and hoping people with this wisdom are still active. I am looking at Koni 90s for my 105 series landcruiser, which drives at 3.9t daily (gym is 3,2) and could be up to 3.4t when touring including correlated roads.i am concerned the 90s might be too harsh for daily, but 88s too soft. I am seeking advice on shock selection, including possibly vevalve and forces to ask for, and spring selection using Kings.

[tc_s1]

I've been on Koni HD Raids for several years both on my county and perentie and cannot imagine anything else now.
Hi all, I just found this amazingly informative thread and hoping people with this wisdom are still active. I am looking at Koni 90s for my 105 series landcruiser, which drives at 3.9t daily (gym is 3,2) and could be up to 3.4t when touring including correlated roads.i am concerned the 90s might be too harsh for daily, but 88s too soft. I am seeking advice on shock selection, including possibly vevalve and forces to ask for, and spring selection using Kings.