Not Happy - Auto again

[crash]

Nearly 300K on the clock and looks like on my 2nd auto.
Story to date, had the auto reco about 50K ago, which is about right for these autos. Took it into the mechanic to get a minor auto oil leak from between the auto and motor fixed.
They take things apart and the oil smells burnt, further investigations discover a couple of clutches have been burnt.
I am quiet taken back by this as I have not had any tell tale signs of any slipping or problems with it.
I have not towed with the new tranny, and only been off road a couple of times.
Oil level has always been kept up.
Only hope is that it is not a total rebuild.
Talked to the original company that rebuilt the tranny and it is out of warranty period. They too were surprised that only got about 50K out of it.

[Mikey]

Hi Crash, I too feel your pain (wallet pain that is).

I had my transmission fully rebuilt in September 2009 (approx. 40,000 Klm's ago, I think). Vehicle has about 248,000Klm's on it now. It was rebuilt using better/stronger components (sprags and planetary set etc.) and new tc, full flush, u beaut oil and the like from a reputable transmission specialist, so that I would not have to go through it again. I also had temperature senders installed in the pan and one in the oil cooler return line so I could monitor the transmission fluid temperature. These were hooked into my Madman unit with alarm points etc. Do it once, do it right, right? Well so much for that theory.

I now have an issue where by I have drive in reverse and 1st gear when placed manually in those gears but when shifter is placed 2,3 or D I get no go, only a very faint feeling that it is in gear but when the go pedal is pushed there is nothing. This happened very suddenly.

Story:
Yesterday I drove the vehicle to a Landrover specialist to get my remapped engine ecu unit replaced with a standard unit for a couple of days to see if my economy would improve and also as an exercise to see what a standard map feels like again. I was told, after the replacement was done in the W'shop and engine was started they backed car out for test drive, placed shifter in D and...nothing except for error codes for tc and other things that I cannot remember. Anyway all codes were cleared and did not come back. Still no drive when in D,3 or 2. My remapped ecu was put back in, all codes were cleared if any, all diagnostic checks were performed with their test equipment and no faults were found. I must say that the fluid level was not checked. End result is I am left with a car that I cannot drive except in reverse or 1st gear.

What the heck happened? So I have a broke car. No one with a clue as to what is going on. There is a suggestion that a Sprag clutch is the culprit, what?!!!!! Just like that, no warning with driveability or noises or anything. Absolutely no warning whatsoever!

All this after I spent... $6,000 :eek: on the rebuild "drive in drive out" in 2009.

Since then the car has towed a camper trailer approximately 9,000klm's over two years and that's all, apart from highway and around town driving normally.

It is currently back with the firm that rebuilt it 2009, sending me broke again no doubt! Frankly I am beginning to wonder why I bother, might be time to call it quits.

Are there any experts or people out there that have any experience with these transmissions that may be able to shed some light on what could be a possible cause for failure?

I will report back with what has happened to my transmission. I cannot shake the feeling that the problem with mine is somehow electric/electronic in nature, given the circumstances surrounding the suddenness of this problem.

So I can sympathize with you. Hope it all works out for you Crash.

Cheers
Mikey

[Tombie]

I'd put money on it if all they did was ECU change that the settings are corrupt and it thinks its a Manual...

No CanBus to Auto - No Control...

[Mikey]

Hi Tombie, thanks for the reply.

So are you thinking that even if all they did was shut the car down and pull my ecu out and then reinstall it after they tried their standard map ecu, that the settings in my original ecu may be corrupted when they reinstalled it?:confused: kinda, sorta something like that?

Would I be able to check that with a Nanocom?

I will have to go up tomorrow morning and plug in if that is the case.

Cheers
Mikey

[Tombie]

Hi Tombie, thanks for the reply.

So are you thinking that even if all they did was shut the car down and pull my ecu out and then reinstall it after they tried their standard map ecu, that the settings in my original ecu may be corrupted when they reinstalled it?:confused: kinda, sorta something like that?

Would I be able to check that with a Nanocom?

I will have to go up tomorrow morning and plug in if that is the case.

Cheers
Mikey

Yes and Yes :)

Check settings in BCU recognise vehicle as Auto...

[Mikey]

Thanks for that Tombie, will check tomorrow when I get to the transmission joint. They have not started to pull anything apart yet so hopefully that is all it is.

I just can not believe that it would give it up like that. Too much of a coincidence imho.

I will post back here with results tomorrow, hopefully with good news.

Mikey

[Mikey]

Hi Tombie, well I checked all the settings this morning in the Bcu and it was set to Auto. I knew it was a long shot but not knowing what happens when an Auto vehicle has Manual selected in the Bcu it was worth a shot.

Next step is it will get the pan removed to have a look and then I guess if nothing obvious is found (oil discoloration and smell, fluid level, any metal particulates etc) then removal of the valve body for inspection, solenoids etc.
If nothing discovered there then rip the box out and strip it down. I will then have to take out a fifth mortgage i guess :mad:. Well at least I have my health :).

I will post more when I know.

Cheers for now
Mikey

[Tombie]

Sorry it didnt turn out to be a simple fix.

Good luck with it.

[crash]

Mine is in the process of being stripped down.
They are going to run a kit through it but does not need a complete rebuild. By looking at the parts at the moment they figure a good job was done previously on it, but can not figure out why the clutches are burnt. The valve body has not been pulled apart yet.
Hopefully will be back on the road next week.
It probably was a good thing that I took it in when I did, could have possibly become worse down the track and cost me even more.

[Mikey]

Just had phone call from the Transmission shop, metal bits in the pan, Damn it!!!!

If I decide to fix it, it will get a new oil cooler this time ;), a simple flush imho just isn't good enough (was advised last time that is all that was needed), bit more knowledgeable this time and a lot less inclined to believe some of what I am told without evidence and information. It was not suggested to me last time but I will insist it be done. What the heck, it's only money right? Also thinking, if the Sprags have gone again then get the Ashcroft you beaut one $$$$$$.

Another side to this is, do I cut my continued ongoing expense with this vehicle and sell it or part it out. Then I am left with what to do for another vehicle that can take my family and I touring off road, sometimes towing a camper trailer.

I don't have the money for another vehicle right now anyway and we need two vehicles with at least one that can tow. The other car is an Astra :eek:.

Best have a quiet drink or two and meditate on it me thinks :D.

Cheers
Mikey

[Mikey]

Hi Crash, were there any signs of metal particulates at all in the transmission fluid when they initially investigated?

By the way, I did not mean to hijack your thread as such. Just want to relay my experience and thought this thread title was appropriate. Also I needed an outlet for my extreme frustration at the gearbox failure or should I more accurately say the failure of the internal components.

I just am having a hard time understanding why my gearbox has failed, given the rebuild it had, the upgraded parts used, the servicing, treating the auto box with a great deal of respect and mechanical sympathy. Another confusing aspect is that there was No warning or degraded performance at all.

Only things I can put it down to are crap parts used (not upgraded as stated on invoice), wrong parts used, debris still in cooling system when put back together, poor rebuild workmanship (ie. just slapped back together) or a combination thereof.

I do not like to think that the above would be the case but time will tell once it is pulled out and stripped down and the exact cause of failure is known.

Cheers
Mikey

[SiddersC]

Have you guys thought about getting a complete trans sent over from Ashcrofts?, the price I got a few weeks back came in at under $3000, including the core charge (about $1000), so cheaper if you can find a used trans in the UK to ship to them.
Get it sent over and fitted - peace of mind?

Just a thought

[Mikey]

Hi SiddersC, good suggestion. I thought about Ashcrofts and have been looking at them for a while. I would want one of the super upgraded and tough transmissions so that I can be absolutely assured as much as possible that I would never have another transmission issue. Sounds familiar I know. I feel more than a touch of deja vu.

The thing that has stopped me is, I could not figure how to do the exchange economically. Thanks for the idea.

I was going to call them later tonight anyway.

Cheers
Mikey

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

Hi SiddersC, good suggestion. I thought about Ashcrofts and have been looking at them for a while. I would want one of the super upgraded and tough transmissions so that I can be absolutely assured as much as possible that I would never have another transmission issue. Sounds familiar I know. I feel more than a touch of deja vu.

The thing that has stopped me is, I could not figure how to do the exchange economically. Thanks for the idea.

I was going to call them later tonight anyway.

Cheers
Mikey

Please post back on pricing, also factor in you would be hit with customs charges in Aus and GST as the item is over $1000

[crash]

Have you guys thought about getting a complete trans sent over from Ashcrofts?, the price I got a few weeks back came in at under $3000, including the core charge (about $1000), so cheaper if you can find a used trans in the UK to ship to them.
Get it sent over and fitted - peace of mind?

Just a thought
I thought of this, but I would still have to pay someone to install it, then if there were to be any problems within warranty period then what do you do?
Mine will probably come in at the same price as getting one shipped over.

[simonmelb]

If/when my auto dies I'll be going to A&B Automatics in Dandenong - several good recommendations on this forum, eg:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/160463-d2-td5-auto-box-recondition-cost.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/141779-zf-auto-needs-stronger-2.html

Shouldn't be paying much more than $3500 installed for a properly remanufactured trans. by the looks of it.

Cheers

Simon

[crash]

If/when my auto dies I'll be going to A&B Automatics in Dandenong - several good recommendations on this forum, eg:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/160463-d2-td5-auto-box-recondition-cost.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/141779-zf-auto-needs-stronger-2.html

Shouldn't be paying much more than $3500 installed for a properly remanufactured trans. by the looks of it.

Cheers

Simon

They did my auto first time round.

[simonmelb]

Bugger, hope you have better luck with this rebuild Crash.

Cheers
Simon

[OffTrack]

JustinC has said he ships ZF auto's to:

Manuel Automatics (http://www.manuelautomatics.com.au)

http://www.manuelautomatics.com.au/resources/transmission-videos

for repair work. So there are alternatives to A&B out there.

[ozscott]

Mate stick it to the orginal re-builders - 9,000k is nothing for a good transmission. Make sure they pick up the tab. You have rights under the consumer legislation and for that matter in contact law.

Cheers

[Vern]

I have a mate who's a transfer builder, (did my zf for a slab:-) ), he highly recommends Manuel's for zf work, and has felt with both a fair bit. The other mob even stuffed up my step sisters turbo350, a good transfer builder should be able to do those in there sleep:)

[Mikey]

Hi Crash, have you got your auto sorted to your satisfaction?

Just to update all, mine has been rebuilt with a 30 element 58 tooth forward sprag/planetary gearset and new clutch pack to suit, that I got as a good second hand part from Ashcroft's in the UK. This part was the only part that failed this time around. This failed part was sold to me during the first rebuild as an "upgraded sprag" and was only a 24 element 48 tooth unit. How this could have been classified as an upgraded part is beyond my limited understanding, comparing it to the part that Ashcroft's supplied.

Interestingly, the "failure" was put down to the 32" tyres that I am running. This view was repeated to me by the transmission shop that did the rebuilds and the workshop where the failure occurred, My opinion is, what a load.....

Will I be visiting these businesses in the future? NO!

I also took the opportunity this time to fit a HD torque converter, also from Ashcroft's and it is simply brilliant. Should have done it the first time round.

When I got it home I fitted an inline supplementary oil cooler to assist with keeping the transmission oil cool, should have done that last time too :angel:.

A big thank you to Dave Ashcroft for taking the time to speak with me, helping me to understand what is what with the auto, his guidance and help in getting the parts required.

In the end it cost about another $4,500 completed. I did not get any discount or special pricing from the "transmission specialist" that rebuilt it the first time. I was charged "normal" pricing this time around as well but that is just typical these days :censored:. All happy to charge full price and then some but take no responsibility for bad advice on their part. They just see an opportunity to make more money. This is of course "My Opinion" based on what I have experienced.

Moral is the usual buyer beware, do not rush into anything, get different opinions and ideas, do your own research, do not be afraid to pull your vehicle and take it somewhere else even it is in pieces, all so you can make a wise and informed decision that is right for YOU and YOUR wallet.

Rant over.

On a positive note, the vehicle is going better than ever :D:D. I am also in the process of changing diff ratios from the standard 3.54 to 3.8. This is for towing as I intend to run the 32's all the time now.

Cheers all, thanks for your input.

Mikey

[pibby]

hey mikey is the lock up on your heavy duty tc noticeable? got one on mine and i reckon it's bordering on being too noticeable.

brett.

[Mikey]

Hi Pibby/Brett, the lock up is not much more noticeable but when I slow down as for traffic lights I can really feel the down shift in gears which I like.

It has a real solid feel to it.

I also get better mileage from the vehicle since fitting the HD Torque converter and it is a much more relaxed drive.

cheers,
Mikey