running on cooking oil

[jorjatom68]

Has anyone set their diesel up with all the gear to run cooking oil. I've heard of different things to do it right and wrong and would like to hear from someone that has done it. What they used and why.

[Blknight.aus]

dewater it, filter it mix it with enough diesel/tur to keep it thin enough for a facet pump to shift it at 1l/min and stick it in the fuel tank.

Done.

[mike_ie]

Has anyone set their diesel up with all the gear to run cooking oil. I've heard of different things to do it right and wrong and would like to hear from someone that has done it. What they used and why.

Have been doing so for years now. Started off with Dave's setup - dewatered, filtered WVO mixed with diesel or 10% ULP, progressed to a twin tank system with a 65 litre diesel tank, and a 125 litre WVO tank. Starts on diesel, automatically switches over to oil when the oil reaches a certain temperature in the heat exchanger in the engine bay.

Only problems I've had have been of my own making - usually involving not filtering oil properly and ending up wit a clogged up filter.

[Vern]

X2 for mikes set up, looks quite good, smells tasty as well:)

[Blknight.aus]

I went the other way, from a setup like mikes (but manually controlled) back to doing most of the work and filtration off vehicle.

Fozzy, will probably wind up back on the same system as mikes again.


you dont need any mods once you get north of townsville.

[mike_ie]

I went the other way, from a setup like mikes (but manually controlled) back to doing most of the work and filtration off vehicle.

Probably should clarify - mine was manually controlled, I just had a few thermistors connected to the relay setup for the 3-way valves, so that I couldn't switch over to oil too early. I also had a bypass in the plumbing that allowed hot oil to circulate back into the fuel tank, rather than having cold oil sitting stagnant in the pipelines, filters, if I decided to run off the diesel tank all the time.

[sheerluck]

.........smells tasty as well:)

Yup. Wherever you are, it always smells like you're driving past a chippy.

[as in the long established purveyors of fine fried meals, not the guys who knock together bits of wood]

[Sitec]

Hello. Depends how far you want to go... I used to just run straight Canola oil in my 1990 GTD Golf in the UK when it was cheaper to buy oil than diesel. Did this for several years with no problem. The key is cleanliness. A work mate of mine does it and I'm just getting set up to do so using IBC's (meter cubed liquid storage containers). The process starts with waste oil collection, into a container outside, which he does using 44gal oil drums and 12v pump. Once home and transferred, it sits for up to 6 months. The 'product' is then pulled from a point half way up the IBC. The water and sludge is drained off from the base outlet (the waste stinks).. At this point the product is pumped to the top IBC of 3 through a fine steel filter (we use a Kubota digger hydraulic suction filter which is washable in petrol), and again allowed to sit. It's then gravity fed through a washable fine steel filter and standard CAV fuel filter into the second IBC. Here it can sit again, time allowing... From here it goes through a 10micron filter into the bottom IBC, again gravity fed. Once full it is pumped through another 10 micron filter and water trap into a 5000lt rainwater tank. (At this point, if you have time, the process can be repeted through 3 more IBC's as my mate does... Yup, he has 7 IBC's on his farm!!) Here it is ready for use. At this point a 20lt drum is used to mix 18 lt of processed oil and 2 lt of regular ULP. The 'brew' as he calls it is now ready for use! As with each stage, the oil is always pulled from a point approx 600 mm from the bottom of the container, even the finish tank, always allowing the original container outlet to be a water/sediment drain point. (If reasonably clean, this gets thrown back into the Stage 1 tank). Time and patience is key with this if you are serious about doing it. My friend runs 2 tractors (one brand new Kubota), 2 cars and a new Mazda ute (same diesel as in new Fenders) on it without issue. I have tried several tanks thru my Td5 and tractors also without issue.. Thinning with diesel is not worth doing as the amount of diesel required to thin the oil is about 50/50.. and it's still not as thin as diesel. Good luck!!

[mick88]

I know a bloke who uses chip oil in his diesel ute and diesel houseboat.
He also uses the large 1000 litre pods as settling tanks and leaves them sit for a long period. According to him water will stay suspended in the cooking oil for a long time. Once settled and filtered, once he is satisfied its right to go he starts his vehicle on diesel then when the temp gauge hits normal he switches over to cooking oil. The cooking oil passes through a heat exchanger unit to he has made up and fitted into his vehicle. Once the vehicle has been started for the day and reached operating temparature there is no need to start on diesel again until the vehicle has been sitting all night. During the day once it's been running he can turn it off, leave it for 3-4 hours and fire it straight up again on cooking oil.
He also has a small centrifuge unit for portable filtering of cooking oil when he is away travelling.
It certainly saves him some money.


Cheers, Mick.

[Blknight.aus]

my filtration is pretty simple...

a 240v motor belt drives a power steering pump which pushes the fluid past a 30 micron filter that has a water seperator on it(same microns as tdi/suzi) fitlers.

the filter is mounted off of a T peice so that normal flow goes straight past the filter leg of the T and returns to the tank to go round again. The outlet of the filter goes into the usage tank. as the oil goes into the usage tank I work out its viscosity using the final filtration and delivery pump after about 20l of oil has been pumped across into the usage tank.

the usage tank has a smaller filter with a water seperator on it with a T piece and a ball valve. When blending the fuel to get the flow rate at 1l/min I open the ball valve with the pump running (which more or less bypasses the filter) and as diesel/tur/whateverelse untill its flowing at about 800ml-1l/min, multiply that by 5 pour the diesel into the tank, close the ball cock and let the transfer pump keep doing its thing.

[Sitec]

So, Blknight.aus, how long have you been running your Td5 on your brew?

[jakeslouw]

What about normal paraffin?

"Petroleum-derived diesel is composed of about 75% saturated hydrocarbons (primarily paraffins including n, iso, and cycloparaffins), and 25% aromatic hydrocarbons (including naphthalenes and alkylbenzenes).[25] The average chemical formula for common diesel fuel is C12H23, ranging approximately from C10H20 to C15H28."

paraffin is much cheaper over here than diesel.


Can I run paraffin and add 2SO as a lubricant @ say 200ml per 100L?

[Sitec]

Good call re paraffin.... I'm going to look into it! First off, where do you get it nowadays??!! The other option I'd that ethanol based fuel that's now available at some Shell outlets....

[Blknight.aus]

So, Blknight.aus, how long have you been running your Td5 on your brew?

never, the td5s not rated for it because of the injector pressures.

the injection pressure is higher than the cracking pressure of all but the most perfect biodiesel. the stuff I do is purely series, isuzu and tdi only.

[mike_ie]

What about normal paraffin?

"Petroleum-derived diesel is composed of about 75% saturated hydrocarbons (primarily paraffins including n, iso, and cycloparaffins), and 25% aromatic hydrocarbons (including naphthalenes and alkylbenzenes).[25] The average chemical formula for common diesel fuel is C12H23, ranging approximately from C10H20 to C15H28."

paraffin is much cheaper over here than diesel.


Can I run paraffin and add 2SO as a lubricant @ say 200ml per 100L?

Paraffin doesn't have the same lubricating properties as diesel, and will do serious damage to the engine with long term use. Also, unless I'm very much mistaken, the reason that paraffin is so much cheaper in ZA than diesel is that diesel is taxed, paraffin isn't, and running a car on paraffin is illegal, same as Ireland and the UK, and that customs and excise dip diesel tanks randomly and apply very hefty fines of you're caught.

[jakeslouw]

Well, in South Africa I can buy it in bulk at farmers co-ops and some fuel depots.

You could talk to the local airfield: high grade paraffin is used in most turbo-fans as jet fuel?

"Turbine engines can operate with a wide range of fuels, and jet-aircraft engines typically use fuels with higher flash points, which are less flammable and therefore safer to transport and handle. The first jet fuels were based on kerosene or a gasoline-kerosene mix, and most jet fuels are still kerosene-based. Both British and American standards for jet fuels were first established at the end of World War II. British standards derived from standards for kerosine use for lamps—known as paraffin in the UK—whereas American standards derived from aviation gasoline practices."

The airports, AFAIK, need to drain certain amount from the storage tanks, as well from the planes a pre-flight check for water contamination and they probably need to dispose of this fuel in a proper manner.........:)

[jakeslouw]

Paraffin doesn't have the same lubricating properties as diesel, and will do serious damage to the engine with long term use. Also, unless I'm very much mistaken, the reason that paraffin is so much cheaper in ZA than diesel is that diesel is taxed, paraffin isn't, and running a car on paraffin is illegal, same as Ireland and the UK, and that customs and excise dip diesel tanks randomly and apply very hefty fines of you're caught.

- lubricity: yes, fair point, hence my query regarding 2SO
- taxed fuels: yes, but surely using UVO or home-brew biodiesel is bypassing the fuel supply hence also illegal? It's like fermenting methanol or ethanol in the back yard and chucking it in the 2.25 petrol Landy?
- customs and excise: in Africa we have enough work for those buggers, they don't have time to check private vehicles. Sure, they check fuel depots, but if I run my diesel engine on paraffin, nobody will know. How many C&E officers in the Outback checking fuel tanks?

IMHO if I want to run my car on hi grade jack daniels I should be allowed to......

[Blknight.aus]

WVO/SVO blended with diesel is too hard for our ATO to work out how you should pay your excise on if you're a private user and not selling it on.

after 3 years of documenting what I was doing and keeping the log books but getting essentially told "too hard to work out mate, so long as you're not selling it or using it to make a profit don't worry about it" I gave up on bothering with it.

[mike_ie]

- lubricity: yes, fair point, hence my query regarding 2SO

I'm sure that there are additives that can compensate for the lack of librication in paraffin, sure.


- taxed fuels: yes, but surely using UVO or home-brew biodiesel is bypassing the fuel supply hence also illegal? It's like fermenting methanol or ethanol in the back yard and chucking it in the 2.25 petrol Landy?

Actually, in most countries, no. Why? Because no government wants to be seen trying to curb a "greener" form of fuel. And considering that the percentage of people using SVO is minimal, most countries either don't bother introducing legislation that deems it illegal, or allow for x numbers of litres per year to be used without question. Of course, that x number of litres can't be checked, so... :)


- customs and excise: in Africa we have enough work for those buggers, they don't have time to check private vehicles. Sure, they check fuel depots, but if I run my diesel engine on paraffin, nobody will know. How many C&E officers in the Outback checking fuel tanks?

Well I was born in Ireland, not Australia, and Customs and Excise do indeed check car fuel tanks to make sure that they aren't running on marked diesel or paraffin. They don't even have to pull you over on the road - quite often they will run around a supermarket car park on a Saturday and dip all the diesel cars while the owners are in shopping. Or cattle markets where there's a good chance of farmers running their cars on ag diesel. It's not hard to enforce at all.


IMHO if I want to run my car on hi grade jack daniels I should be allowed to......

Government roads, government rules.... so no, you can't just "do what you want".

[sheerluck]

........
Actually, in most countries, no. Why? Because no government wants to be seen trying to curb a "greener" form of fuel. And considering that the percentage of people using SVO is minimal, most countries either don't bother introducing legislation that deems it illegal, or allow for x numbers of litres per year to be used without question. Of course, that x number of litres can't be checked, so... :).

Mike, my memory of the legislation in the UK was effectively anything that could be chucked in the tank of a vehicle to power it could be considered a fuel, and was therefore expected to incur fuel duties at the appropriate rate. I remember stories on the news of people being busted for dodging the tax, for home brew biodiesel, being pulled over by a copper if their car smelt of fish and chips.....

Ok, so it was a few years since I left there, and things may have changed, but the world of excise collection normally does not.

[mike_ie]

Mike, my memory of the legislation in the UK was effectively anything that could be chucked in the tank of a vehicle to power it could be considered a fuel, and was therefore expected to incur fuel duties at the appropriate rate. I remember stories on the news of people being busted for dodging the tax, for home brew biodiesel, being pulled over by a copper if their car smelt of fish and chips.....

Ok, so it was a few years since I left there, and things may have changed, but the world of excise collection normally does not.

How long ago has it been?


It used to be the case that to legally use Straight Vegetable Oil as a vehicle fuel you had to pay duty on every litre that you set aside for road fuel purposes. However, since July 2007 if you are using/producing less than 2500 litres per year of SVO which is not duty paid then you are not required to pay duty on this fuel. This essentially means that for a business with low mileage use or for personal motoring, provided that it is not excessive, then the use of SVO can be duty free.

[sheerluck]

How long ago has it been?

May 2007 :D (though moved out here permanently in Nov 2007)

Wow. UK customs and excise changing rules. I never thought I'd see the day.

[jakeslouw]

I think the opening debate was regarding the TECHNICAL issues, not whether your specific Nanny State ALLOWS you to..........:mad:

[sheerluck]

My humble apologies jakeslouw for taking the debate SO far off topic.

[jakeslouw]

My humble apologies jakeslouw for taking the debate SO far off topic.

Nah mate it's all good.

But with varying legalities it is a pointless exercise to debate what your specific government will do about it.

Let's stick with the physical aspects?

Jakes Louw

[sheerluck]

......Let's stick with the physical aspects?

Jakes Louw

Works for me! I piped up with my little bit, as I was reading very seriously about doing the WVO/SVO conversion back in the UK, where fuel prices are mad. But I gave up on it as the legislation was just ridiculous at the time.

Just going to shut and listen now.....:D

[Hoges]

- lubricity: yes, fair point, hence my query regarding 2SO
- taxed fuels: yes, but surely using UVO or home-brew biodiesel is bypassing the fuel supply hence also illegal? It's like fermenting methanol or ethanol in the back yard and chucking it in the 2.25 petrol Landy?
- customs and excise: in Africa we have enough work for those buggers, they don't have time to check private vehicles. Sure, they check fuel depots, but if I run my diesel engine on paraffin, nobody will know. How many C&E officers in the Outback checking fuel tanks?

IMHO if I want to run my car on hi grade jack daniels I should be allowed to......

FWIW: check out http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/114491-running-jet-a1-fuel-td5-4.html posts #31 & #32 re. use of kero ( LR did their TD5 injector development using kero as a worse case scenario). Tdi "wolf" can also use kero with some lubricating agent apparently...

[oddsoul]

Have been running used cooking oil for a while now, just have been filtering it down to 10 micron and then putting it into the tank! No heaters, no solvents.. No problems!

[bsperka]

Have been running used cooking oil for a while now, just have been filtering it down to 10 micron and then putting it into the tank! No heaters, no solvents.. No problems!How smoothly does it run until the oil is hot?

[oddsoul]

How smoothly does it run until the oil is hot?

Runs well, some days it does take a few extra cranks to get it going but when it starts it is smooth running. Can take a video and show you what I mean.. Just have to wait for her to cool down now!

[ramblingboy42]

I bought 20 ltrs of new 'cooking' oil for $10 at the markets a few years ago, went straight into the td5 tank while it was running warm. Didn't even know it was there, ran perfectly.

I went back to the same market the next week hoping to buy more but they had sold it all.

All the time I owned my d2 I was always looking for cheap cooking oil , sometimes I could buy small bottles cheap.

the td5 would run on nearly any combustible fluid as long as it was clean and low viscosity.

If I got onto a batch of used cooking oil I'd filter it through several of those green cotton shopping bags, several being the number required to see no staining in the bottom, then I'd use it at around 2:1 with diesel.

[BigJon]

I have a customer who runs his 1986 Mercedes Benz 300D on used cooking oil. He initially started with a twin tank system that started on diesel, then switched over, but now puts it straight in the fuel tank.
I am forever replacing fuel filters for him, as he must be a bit lazy / complacent when it comes to filtering the oil. So much so that his maintenance costs would have bought him a lot of diesel fuel, although for him it is an intellectual excercise, rather than a purely fiscal one.

[oddsoul]

if you're in Perth, WA would be happy to sell some used and filtered oil for 25c/L - I filter it down to 10 micron and add a touch of kerosene to it to help bring the viscosity down and add some extra "power" to the mix. Here's a video of my 98 300TDi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqCU0ElaWgk

[Fattima]

if you're in Perth, WA would be happy to sell some used and filtered oil for 25c/L - I filter it down to 10 micron and add a touch of kerosene to it to help bring the viscosity down and add some extra "power" to the mix. Here's a video of my 98 300TDi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqCU0ElaWgk

How many kilometres have you done on that blend? Any issues?

[oddsoul]

How many kilometres have you done on that blend? Any issues?

On a full tank of WVO, I've clocked just over 670Km. But in total, it would have to be over 4000Km. I basically have a blend of 20L/WVO - 2L/Kero. Seems to work well

[ramblingboy42]

100 litres gone begging,,,,sitting at the speedway last night after cooking all the "food", if I still had my d2 it would have been in the back.