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View Full Version : Mercedes Benz 6x6.................



jerryd
4th March 2013, 08:21 AM
I wonder if I spent 350,000.00 british pounds on my Series 3 I could come up with something as good :D


Mercedes-Benz G63 AMG 6x6 first drive review - Autocar.co.uk Review | Autocar (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mercedes-benz/g-class/first-drives/mercedes-benz-g63-amg-6x6-first-drive-review)

zedcars
4th March 2013, 08:38 AM
Nay mate
Buy yourself a ex Swiss Army 6x6 Pinzgauer or later ex MOD 716 diesel model and show everyone the way home. You'll need about "only" $10,000 US for a good 'un for starters.
Dennis
zedcars

SLOWBOAT
4th March 2013, 09:21 AM
Nice could see myself in one of these with the bikes in the back. Oh and then I woke up.!!!!
Looks like a great vehicle but the price$$$$ wow.

PAT303
4th March 2013, 04:13 PM
Another pointless POS. Pat

robbotd5
4th March 2013, 04:34 PM
Another pointless POS. Pat

Agreed. Aimed at Middle Eastern markets no doubt.
Maybe I'm only jealous that I can't have one???
Regards
Robbo

Lotz-A-Landies
4th March 2013, 04:39 PM
I wonder if I spent 350,000.00 british pounds on my Series 3 I could come up with something as good :D ....
You could start here!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/1092.jpg

Or here!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/1093.jpg

Just need to get rid of the chery picker and add some leather trim! :D

It'sNotWorthComplaining!
4th March 2013, 05:34 PM
Lets face it, it'll only be owned my finance companies leased to Corporate excutives. Who lease it for their wives to take the kids to school in Torrak or Kirrabilly and the like. 'cause it has the 3 point start it'll be the in thing to ber seen in at morning after school drop off latte break

Lotz-A-Landies
4th March 2013, 05:46 PM
No it will be Arab Oil Sheiks with the AMG 6X6.

uninformed
4th March 2013, 05:51 PM
a few things that are nice:

Portal axles
Ohlins shocks
CTIS

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=57467&d=1362383416

flagg
4th March 2013, 09:04 PM
"haters gonna hate"

kreecha
4th March 2013, 09:28 PM
A 6x6 with portals and 37's.

I don't have the words to explain my excitement.

I do want to build one, and attempted it a few years ago (bent the chassis during testing!). But I tried to do I without portals. With portals = :-)

I am so pleased to see this ridiculously awesome vehicle exists!

Cheers, Adam.

Jitterbug
5th March 2013, 08:06 AM
I have been speaking to tibus engineering about portals for my 6x6 expo truck. Coming in at sub $20k for the 6. Makes it look like a bargain compared to the $350k for the merc :)
Maybe I should copy mercedes and go the route of working the cleveland 302 currently fitted and adding huge fuel tanks, rather than the 4bd1t install i have planned. haha

uninformed
5th March 2013, 09:53 AM
if you are serious about custom building your 6x6, I would say you may consider talking to Wagoo regarding the rear suspesnion set up.....

86mud
5th March 2013, 11:30 AM
slightly off topic, but are portals ok under Queensland road rules?

blitz
5th March 2013, 12:12 PM
slightly off topic, but are portals ok under Queensland road rules?

AFAIK only if it is manufactured with them i.e. unimog

marks adapters makes them for patrols and are engineered for all of Australia except Qld

uninformed
5th March 2013, 06:37 PM
I have read the marks portals now engineerable/legal in Queensland...The whole engineering thing really boils my skin as some guys in the biz will scream black and blue stuff isnt engineerable and they know right. Then some one goes and gets it done, legal, legit and passed by DOT themselves. There is sooooooo much here say and miss information floating about...

If you want to mod this is the basic steps:

#1 fill out a DOT form 1854 for vehicle mod, and submit it to them. They will generally phone you back. The did with me within 2 weeks of form being sent. The guy was very helpful. His response was that what I wanted to do, and since the new code had just come in, #2 was to contact a DOT approved ENGINEER (not a seat belt blue plater) and it would be up to them if: A, it was doable, B what procedures, methods, designs rules etc needed to be followed and C what code/s it would fall under and 4 costs.

Well I did #1 easy, but am yet to get onto a bloody engineer. I have spoken to a couple and they ummd and arhhhd sounding very vague (read not interested) about what I wanted to do. I have asked on another forum for any recommendations re engineers and got only a couple names that are closeish to me. I have been trying to get onto one who is reputed to be good, approachable and not closed off to 4WD (alot only have experience with road car mods).

I can easily do my mods. I have most of the design nutted out. I have been trying for years to get it sorted legal so I can do it.

All just to run longer trailing arms....what a bloody joke.

BTW if I had a bag full of $100 bills I bet I could get it done! :mad:

manic
5th March 2013, 07:33 PM
That merc is a real show piece. Land rover need to be looking at this kind of development for the replacement defender. Ok not 6x6 or luxurious leather interior but portal axles, all round locking diffs, tyre inflation system - keeping the same kind of rugged design, only adapting it where necessary. Not a shared disco platform (for the sake of cheaper production) with bloody terrain response!

Agree though, could totally commission a better 6x6 defender/series for that money - just wouldn't be road legal :(

minibloodhound
5th March 2013, 07:34 PM
I had a discussion on Facebook with Robert Pepper (author of the 4wd handbook) about this truck and raised my concerns about how the Australian tax payer has funded the engineering for this "Hero" car (Through the army), so Mercedes can turn a profit. A have to say though that I absolutely love the truck and would love to see it go through some mud instead of just the desert!

uninformed
5th March 2013, 07:42 PM
Agree though, could totally commission a better 6x6 defender/series for that money - just wouldn't be road legal :(

For $350k you could build one road legal. Just start with a LR 6x6 and mod from there.

manic
5th March 2013, 08:03 PM
For $350k you could build one road legal. Just start with a LR 6x6 and mod from there.

What are there - 17,000 members on this board? If everyone donated $20 ..... :eek:

uninformed
5th March 2013, 08:25 PM
What are there - 17,000 members on this board? If everyone donated $20 ..... :eek:

as what??? a time share :D

Disco Muppet
5th March 2013, 08:58 PM
For $350k you could build one road legal. Just start with a LR 6x6 and mod from there.

for that money you could build a pretty impressive landrover, of any sort

MBZ460
5th March 2013, 11:42 PM
As a G-wagen owner: embarrassment.

As I have said before, the Mercedes Benz of the 80's (when my G was made) is a very different company now. The old Benz would not have allowed such a vehicle to be made. They were very particular and protectionist about their marque - to really anal levels. An age where you got was what the factory put out. No "I want this or that colour/accessory/doover" - you get what MB thought was right for their product.

It may have been arrogant and dare I say it, teutonic. But these days anything goes. If you are a obscenely rich Arab prince you can have anything MB will build no matter how ridiculous.

More proof:
Mercedes G63 AMG 6X6





..that does not mean the ADF G's are "gaywagens"

goingbush
6th March 2013, 08:28 AM
cashed up bogans apply within

Lotz-A-Landies
6th March 2013, 11:06 AM
For $350k you could build one road legal. Just start with a LR 6x6 and mod from there.

But which LR 6x6 would you start with?

The Australian perentie 6x6 are compelled to use the LT95 4 speed box, or at least use the transfer box part of the box, they are leaf sprung and only 6X4 on the highway as they don't have a power divider between the rear and middle axle.

The Reynolds Boughton/Scottorn 6X6 have been out of production for the best part of several decades and use a Rover diff centre for the middle axle. Most of the others are also 6X4 on the road and like the Scottorn system don't load share the rear axles.

For $350,000 you (and Wagoo advising) you could build a superior vehicle from the ground up.

CJT
6th March 2013, 01:51 PM
Personally, I like it, I want one :)

But, I just read it only has a 750kg payload, place four adults inside and you can only another 450kg or so...

I am wondering if this is due to limitations with the portal drop boxes???

I would be thinking a 6x6 should have a higher GVM but then again with a kerb weight of 3500kg I guess they are keeping under a GVM of 4500kg so it is not classed as a light truck.

Lotz-A-Landies
6th March 2013, 02:31 PM
Personally, I like it, I want one :)

But, I just read it only has a 750kg payload, place four adults inside and you can only another 450kg or so...

I am wondering if this is due to limitations with the portal drop boxes???

I would be thinking a 6x6 should have a higher GVM but then again with a kerb weight of 3500kg I guess they are keeping under a GVM of 4500kg so it is not classed as a light truck.Even the Scottorn Defender 6X6 are 4.7 Ton GVM and the Perentie 6X6 is 5.6 Tonne GVM.

manic
6th March 2013, 02:32 PM
cashed up bogans apply within

Cashed up bogans - Living the Australian Dream! :D

Just saw the video of this 6x6.. amazing cool :cool:

It looks solid, 37" tires and 0-100kph in around 6 seconds and full on diff lock up over 6 wheels - the drive train must be titanium strong!! If they are as tough as they look and turn out to be near on unbreakable then perhaps even with $350k you would be hard pushed to make a better one out of a land rover :o:wasntme:

uninformed
6th March 2013, 04:47 PM
But which LR 6x6 would you start with?

The Australian perentie 6x6 are compelled to use the LT95 4 speed box, or at least use the transfer box part of the box, they are leaf sprung and only 6X4 on the highway as they don't have a power divider between the rear and middle axle.

The Reynolds Boughton/Scottorn 6X6 have been out of production for the best part of several decades and use a Rover diff centre for the middle axle. Most of the others are also 6X4 on the road and like the Scottorn system don't load share the rear axles.

For $350,000 you (and Wagoo advising) you could build a superior vehicle from the ground up.

Well you sort of anwserd you own question. But my point was that for $350k or more likely less. You could by a LR 6x6, Aus amry or Aus civilian model and mod from there. Rear suspension would be a redesign (aka Wagoo) Im sure a the LT95 transfer case could be used with a 6 speed manual or auto (yes its once peice, but it would not be the first time someone has used just the LT95 transfer case).........use your imagination from there.

The point of using a LR was that A it would be an easier task to mod and get road legal than starting a vehicle from scratch, and B since most people here are comapring the modded Gwagon to a LR 6x6, thats kinda the point.

uninformed
6th March 2013, 05:20 PM
Mercedes G 63 AMG 6x6 - YouTube


then of coarse you have this, which Im not sure, but may have been related or pre-cursor to the Lamborghini Lm001/002 (cheetah looks to be rear engine?)


Lamborghini Cheetah Concept Promo Video - YouTube

Lamborghini

Lamborghini LM002.avi - YouTube

Jeremy Cl... review LM002 American - YouTube

Lotz-A-Landies
6th March 2013, 05:50 PM
Well you sort of anwserd you own question. But my point was that for $350k or more likely less. ...

... The point of using a LR was that A it would be an easier task to mod and get road legal than starting a vehicle from scratch, and B since most people here are comapring the modded Gwagon to a LR 6x6, thats kinda the point.The cost of the engineering is only minimal when you consider that the modifications still have to be engineered. Even my Reynolds-Boughton 6X6 which was a LR factory supplied unit, has to be engineered because it has never been registered in Australia. It's just had it's first engineer review before I start building it back up.

My point is that it would be better to start from a blank piece of paper and build up something good or excellent from scratch on a standard Defender chassis which you modify to your own design rather than spending the extra dollars to buy an already built 6X6 that you have to throw away thousands of dollars of gear that isn't what you want.

It's just the humble opinion from someone that already has a 6X6 Defender.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/838.jpg

Blknight.aus
6th March 2013, 06:23 PM
If they are as tough as they look and turn out to be near on unbreakable

sadly, they aint.

uninformed
6th March 2013, 06:35 PM
The cost of the engineering is only minimal when you consider that the modifications still have to be engineered. Even my Reynolds-Boughton 6X6 which was a LR factory supplied unit, has to be engineered because it has never been registered in Australia. It's just had it's first engineer review before I start building it back up.

My point is that it would be better to start from a blank piece of paper and build up something good or excellent from scratch on a standard Defender chassis which you modify to your own design rather than spending the extra dollars to buy an already built 6X6 that you have to throw away thousands of dollars of gear that isn't what you want.

It's just the humble opinion from someone that already has a 6X6 Defender.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/838.jpg

thats fine, and its just my humble opinion that its easier to get mods engineered than a whole vehicle from scratch......And since I said start with an AUS army or CIVILIAN LR 6x6, which is already recognised as road legal in Oz, kinda makes your last post moot..but as you are the expert I figured you already know that ;)

enjoy your 6x6

Lotz-A-Landies
6th March 2013, 07:33 PM
thats fine, and its just my humble opinion that its easier to get mods engineered than a whole vehicle from scratch......And since I said start with an AUS army or CIVILIAN LR 6x6, which is already recognised as road legal in Oz, kinda makes your last post moot..but as you are the expert I figured you already know that ;)

enjoy your 6x6The minute you remove the drum brakes from the perentie 6x6, or add portals it needs engineering, the difference between the cost of engineering of the modified Au registered 6X6 and the imported 6x6 is minimal, the only additional engineering on the RB is the ADR compliance. This will still happen when you start your $350K build.

IMHO neither the leaf springs on the perentie or the coil springs on the AMG 6X6 or LR-Reynolds Boughton 6X6 are ideal, I would much prefer load sharing EAS and that requires engineering. Neither the perentie or the LR-RB have axle diff locks.

Save money and built from scratch.

uninformed
6th March 2013, 07:45 PM
so If I have your "factory LR 6x6" a Aus Civilian 6x6 and a custom scratch built 6x6, they will all cost the same to get registered?

There is one there that requires no engineering ;)

Modding suspension adding portals etc will ALL require engineering. BUT some of these things have already been done by other people so the path/presedent is set. Building a vehicle from scratch is a much larger engineering exercise.

Just my humble opinion from someone that has seen 2 ICV built.

save money and mod a Aus LR 6x6 :p

PAT303
6th March 2013, 08:39 PM
How many of you have experience with this type of vehicle?,I don't mean ''my mates dad had one Blah Blah'' I mean a serious drive in one?.I had a Patrol 6 wheeler made by 6 wheeler in Queensland as a work vehicle and as a offroader they are rubbish,as a load carrier they are rubbish,in general they are rubbish. Pat

uninformed
6th March 2013, 09:11 PM
I once met a guy, that knew a guy, that punched a hole right through another guy..............does that count? :D

I also enjoyed the company of my Tow truck driver and his stories....one of which was some xa falcon he built with the gearbox out of Dick Johnson's racing sierra and a 2speed jag read diff. Capable of over 180mph. I totally believed him (I really didnt want the tow to cost me $$ dollars than it had to)

Now regarding a 6x6 Pat, my comments are just that, and all Im saying Is I think a person (with the right help) could build a more capable 6x6 based on a LR 6x6, all be it modded.

But I dont have $3.50 to rub together, let alone $350k

BTW, those genuine LR door seals = 50 quid each and door sill seals = 15 quid each + shipping of coarse ;)

Disco Muppet
6th March 2013, 10:16 PM
Hands on experience in a 6 wheeler?
You betcha. I worked for my mates dad as a drilling offsider, he had about 5.
They were all 6X4 though. Hated them. Naturally aspirated gutless toyota engines, even with over a tonne in the rear they were shocking to handle.
No thank you.

Blknight.aus
6th March 2013, 10:18 PM
..that does not mean the ADF G's are "gaywagens"

Sure does, they all are.

its called a G wagen by its formal abbreviation, Get a german (fair request in my book, they made it) to pronounce the first letter (57572)and then the last part (57573) listen to what they come back with. should sound something like

57576(would've sounded better if I could have gotten a decent sound bite of each bit from the same person but you get the idea)


As I like to tell people who insist that It will no longer be called the gaywagon

"The original definition of the word Gay is happiness, do not assume to judge a words association in a term with your judgment of what it is being used to represent"

And as I like to tell people who outrank me

"That's what the german Rep who come over to try and sell us on the product called it, Good enough for the manufacturer, good enough for me"

Blknight.aus
6th March 2013, 10:37 PM
How many of you have experience with this type of vehicle?,I don't mean ''my mates dad had one Blah Blah'' I mean a serious drive in one?.I had a Patrol 6 wheeler made by 6 wheeler in Queensland as a work vehicle and as a offroader they are rubbish,as a load carrier they are rubbish,in general they are rubbish. Pat

Plenty, both landrover and Gaywagon varients.

I'll take the landy, the seat fits me better, its manual, it weighs less, gets better range and has better storage hidey holes for extra bits n pieces, like say a pine box with plenty of jack rats, 6 cartons of beer thats not supposed to be in the exercise area and room between the front seats for an engel big enough to take one of those cartons, some meats, milks and cheeses so that you can at least do the exercise well fed.

PAT303
6th March 2013, 10:40 PM
I once met a guy, that knew a guy, that punched a hole right through another guy..............does that count? :D

I also enjoyed the company of my Tow truck driver and his stories....one of which was some xa falcon he built with the gearbox out of Dick Johnson's racing sierra and a 2speed jag read diff. Capable of over 180mph. I totally believed him (I really didnt want the tow to cost me $$ dollars than it had to)

Now regarding a 6x6 Pat, my comments are just that, and all Im saying Is I think a person (with the right help) could build a more capable 6x6 based on a LR 6x6, all be it modded.

But I dont have $3.50 to rub together, let alone $350k

BTW, those genuine LR door seals = 50 quid each and door sill seals = 15 quid each + shipping of coarse ;)

Where did you get that price for seals?,2 minute search and I found the seals for 15 pounds and the TDCi bottom weather strip for 4 pounds. Pat

Lotz-A-Landies
6th March 2013, 11:48 PM
Having investigated hands-on my 6X6, the perentie 6X6, Custom conversions Land Cruiser 6x6 and reviewed pictures of the G Wagen 6x6 I feel the fit into two basic classes, the leaf sprung perentie and land cruiser and the coil sprung G-Wagen and RB etc.

At the minimum the RB has been designed as a low cost chassis modification easily replicated on any 110 Defender. Making accomodation for the trailing arms and inter prop shaft the RB suffers by the axles being too far apart and non load sharing.

The G Wagen has essentially the same drive mechanism and disadvantages as the RB.

The wide body on the perentie has advantages and load sharing but disadvantages in it's transfer and limited articulation on the leaf springs.

The Land Cruiser shares the leaf spring mechanism and offset diffs of the perentie but has a detached drop box drive to the rear axle.

None of the above walk their rear axles as well as things like the the WWII Studebaker trucks.

If I were to build my own I'd start with a lengthened 110 chassis, something like a D4 body. I'd fit a walking beam close spaced rear axle combination with offset Salisbury or Dana manual locking diffs, portal axles and disk brakes, the drive would be a detached power dividing drop box similar to the LC, the power train would be something like a LT230/Isuzu MSA with Isuzu duramax.

Most of all I'd have someone like Bill overseeing the design and manufacture.

123rover50
7th March 2013, 05:49 AM
The minute you remove the drum brakes from the perentie 6x6, or add portals it needs engineering, the difference between the cost of engineering of the modified Au registered 6X6 and the imported 6x6 is minimal, the only additional engineering on the RB is the ADR compliance. This will still happen when you start your $350K build.

IMHO neither the leaf springs on the perentie or the coil springs on the AMG 6X6 or LR-Reynolds Boughton 6X6 are ideal, I would much prefer load sharing EAS and that requires engineering. Neither the perentie or the LR-RB have axle diff locks.

Save money and built from scratch.

The 6x6 Perentie I built my camper on came with rear factory diff locks :)

uninformed
7th March 2013, 06:40 AM
Where did you get that price for seals?,2 minute search and I found the seals for 15 pounds and the TDCi bottom weather strip for 4 pounds. Pat

Are you sure they are genuine LR? If so pm me a link please.

rick130
7th March 2013, 07:23 AM
The 6x6 Perentie I built my camper on came with rear factory diff locks :)

AFAIK the LRPV's have diff locks too.
I think some used (or at least trialled) Detroit No Spin centres too.

Did yours have Sals or the Borg Warner Australia/BTR diffs ?

Lotz-A-Landies
7th March 2013, 08:57 AM
AFAIK the LRPV's have diff locks too.
I think some used (or at least trialled) Detroit No Spin centres too.

Did yours have Sals or the Borg Warner Australia/BTR diffs ?Detroit No spin would be OK in a perentie 6X4-selectable 6X6 system but not in a constant 6X6 system like the RB and G-Wagen. While it would work, you just have to sit next to a 6X4 or 8X4 concrete agitator truck sitting at the traffic lights with the drum rotating and listen to the detroits locking in and out.

Yes the newer no spin should avoid this issue but as they get older they can be less reliable. The last thing you would want is to start breaking things.

With selectable diff locks you know when they're out and you decide when they go in.

uninformed
7th March 2013, 10:35 AM
Detroit No spin would be OK in a perentie 6X4-selectable 6X6 system but not in a constant 6X6 system like the RB and G-Wagen. While it would work, you just have to sit next to a 6X4 or 8X4 concrete agitator truck sitting at the traffic lights with the drum rotating and listen to the detroits locking in and out.

Yes the newer no spin should avoid this issue but as they get older they can be less reliable. The last thing you would want is to start breaking things.

With selectable diff locks you know when they're out and you decide when they go in.

you can hear the detroits locking in at out in a concrete truck while sitting at lights in trafic, engine running and bowl rotating???? why are they locking in and out?

Lotz-A-Landies
7th March 2013, 12:56 PM
you can hear the detroits locking in at out in a concrete truck while sitting at lights in trafic, engine running and bowl rotating???? why are they locking in and out?Because as the drum rotates the wet concrete load inside is transfering the weight from side and putting different loads on each of the axles tending to rotate the tyres slightly thus unlocking the diff and then re-locking it. The trucks are also mostly automatic so there is sometimes some propshaft input if the drivers brake foot lifts slightly.

Remember that a Detroit No-Spin should probably be termed an unlocking diff, because their natural state is locked.

123rover50
8th March 2013, 07:49 AM
AFAIK the LRPV's have diff locks too.
I think some used (or at least trialled) Detroit No Spin centres too.

Did yours have Sals or the Borg Warner Australia/BTR diffs ?

Its got the Borg Warners in the back and a heavy cast Rover housing in the front.

uninformed
8th March 2013, 12:14 PM
Its got the Borg Warners in the back and a heavy cast Rover housing in the front.

with the special, very expensive Rover HD ring and pinion (front) :cool:

uninformed
8th March 2013, 12:20 PM
Because as the drum rotates the wet concrete load inside is transfering the weight from side and putting different loads on each of the axles tending to rotate the tyres slightly thus unlocking the diff and then re-locking it. The trucks are also mostly automatic so there is sometimes some propshaft input if the drivers brake foot lifts slightly.

Remember that a Detroit No-Spin should probably be termed an unlocking diff, because their natural state is locked.

I figured thats what you ment.....Your ears must be a hell of alot better than mine.

Lotz-A-Landies
8th March 2013, 01:59 PM
I figured thats what you ment.....Your ears must be a hell of alot better than mine.I wish, the constant tinnitus is really annoying some times.

If you're talking about the diffs, somtimes, when they unlock they sound like something just exploded.

rick130
8th March 2013, 07:51 PM
I wish, the constant tinnitus is really annoying some times.



I can mostly switch off to it but it's driving me nuts tonight.

Lotz-A-Landies
8th March 2013, 08:42 PM
I can mostly switch off to it but it's driving me nuts tonight.That's because I mentioned it. Sorry :(

Personally have to sleep with noise because the night is too quiet and the tinnitis seems louder, the stuff on TV is enough to put anyone to sleep so I sleep with it on.