A little help required please!

[fourwheeltravel]

Hey guys, I come here on bended knee asking for some advise about driving my temporarily imported defender 110 in Australia, as far as I can make out from the minefield of legislation and bureaucracy it's bloody difficult if not that then really confusing!

Two friends and I temporarily imported two defender 110's into Australia after touring Europe, Central Asia, Mongolia and Russia needless to say the most confusing country to drive in so far has been Australia, each state/territory has different rules and regs as to the eligibility of driving a temporarily imported vehicles and I have got myself really confused as to what documents I need to drive legally.

We shipped to Sydney and cleared AQIS with minor hiccups and a hefty cleaning bill as the Australian/Russian standards of cleaning a vehicle don't quite match up. We purchased a three month Compulsory Third Party insurance certificate and made a B-Line for Melbourne to meet up with family and a couch we could sleep on. On the way we were stopped twice by the police for driving an unregistered vehicle and in Victoria we were issued with a hefty $700 fine (which we are contesting). A couple of days later I found Marcus through this website who allowed us to park our rig out of the city in the safety of his home in Warragul whilst we work in Melbourne to pay back various family members for what has turned out to be a very expensive trip. and here we are approaching three months in Australia and with our current CTP insurance about to expire I wanted some tips or anybody's experience on the best insurers for this type of vehicle.

Further to my first request for help I would like any information/ help on the different rules required to drive the cars through all the territories (which I intend to do!)

Perhaps we can take the information compiled in this thread and make a guide for fellow would-be adventurers.

Thanks in advance,
Richard

PS. Not sure if this thread is in the right place :S

[weeds]

track down camel landy(member on here who has toured aus for 12 months).....he will point you in the right direction

off to find his exact user name

[weeds]

camel_landy, maybe send him a PM

[newhue]

Sorry to hear that you have been given grief. Have to say I'm a little embarrassed about your experiences. I think most Australians like to think they live in a progressive country, however I am increasingly wondering these days.

Most road rules are the same Aus wide. Melbourne city has some odd hook turn thing. Where you turn right from the far left. It's not all intersections, and there are lanes and lights that indicate when you are safe to turn. But if you want to turn right and discover the turn lane is over a lane or two to your left then you a bit stuffed. Better to keep going.

Western Aus has some 90Km/h max when towing a trailer. No trailer and your good for 100 in 100 zones.

Just watch your speed in the never ending road work zones around the place. The cops like to sit just outside them and pick off speeders.
Honestly I am surprised you have been pulled over twice. Landies are on the low interest scope to police usually, as they are slow and most drivers are quite conservative.

good luck with your travels, I hope they only get better, lots better.

[ugu80]

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/getnewrego/importedvehicles.html
http://www.aaa.asn.au/touring/bringing.htm

[Cracka]

G'day fourwheeltravel,

The RMS (Roads and Maritime Services) link that ugu80 is for vehicles which are going to STAY in NSW, this link Visiting overseas vehicle < Get a new rego < Registration < www.rta.nsw.gov.au (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/getnewrego/visiting_from_overseas.html)
applies to your situation if the vehicle is only here temporarily. This relates to NSW only bear in mind.

But if you didn't obtain the VIA mentioned, then yes, your vehicle will be deemed to be unregistered and uninsured (CTP).

[wovenrovings]

I am very surprised, if you didn't have a Vehicle import approval, that they would have let you drive the vehicle of the docks. Customs are normally all over that sort of thing.
I am surprised that you even got stopped. I know people that have driven overseas registered vehicles around in australia for years and never been stopped.
(I think the rules have changed about how long you can keep the vehicle here for)

State rules don't matter in this case because it is a federal department (department of infrastructure and transport) that decides if a vehicle can be brought into australia.

[Cracka]

State rules don't matter in this case because it is a federal department (department of infrastructure and transport) that decides if a vehicle can be brought into australia.

It becomes state based though (whatever state he is stopped in) if he hasn't complied with the requirements of the VIA, and as I said, the vehicle is then deemed unreg/uninsured. Even if he has the CTP on hand, if he hasn't complied with the VIA the vehicle IS unregistered and uninsured because the CTP only takes effect when the registration is current. This is also the case When a person is stopped where the vehicle registration has expired, but they have already purchased their green slip (CTP) it makes no difference as the green slip only takes effect when the registration is paid. I am only relating this to New South Wales. I'm not sure how the other states rego/ins still operate, I think most still pay both to their relevant road dept, Vicroads etc.

[fourwheeltravel]

G'day fourwheeltravel,

The RMS (Roads and Maritime Services) link that ugu80 is for vehicles which are going to STAY in NSW, this link Visiting overseas vehicle < Get a new rego < Registration < www.rta.nsw.gov.au (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/getnewrego/visiting_from_overseas.html)
applies to your situation if the vehicle is only here temporarily. This relates to NSW only bear in mind.

But if you didn't obtain the VIA mentioned, then yes, your vehicle will be deemed to be unregistered and uninsured (CTP).

Thanks for the responses! I am still unclear as to why I would need a VIA if I have already driven the vehicle out of the docks with a carnet de passage.

[fourwheeltravel]

I am surprised that you even got stopped.

Our numberplate flashes up on all the detection devices as a 'fake' registration because it doesn't exist on any Australian Police computer. So they follow ofr a bit and then pull us over.

[Cracka]

Well you should be okay then if you have that, you must have that or the VIA.

You should not have been given the infringement in that case then, I would assume whoever did issue it was not very experienced!!

Did you obtain the Carnet de passage from your home country did you?

And also are your current registration plate and label(MOT) displayed?

[101RRS]

At a basic level Australia is a country of 6 independent countries joined in an agreed federation and each have their own rules and regulations and most likely require their own permits etc.

Did they book you for also being unlicensed?

[Cracka]

Did they book you for also being unlicensed?

They can't, or I should say shouldn't, as long as his UK licence is current as he has visiting driver privileges.

1st December 1999 the Motor Traffic Act, 1909 was repealed and replaced by the Australian Road Rules which was adopted by all States of Australia, however, each State did made their own amendments. The ARR cover road use rules so to speak, other Regulations exist such as the Motor Vehicle Regulation Act, Road Transport (Driver Licensing) Act for example, deal with other specifics.

[101RRS]

They can't, or I should say shouldn't, as long as his UK licence is current as he has visiting driver privileges.

Exactly and if he is driving a properly registered vehicle from the country of origin with the appropriate insurances as he has, then he is also legal.

[camel_landy]

Right,

When you bring the car in, you have to clear through customs & AQIS but once through there you need to get the car registered. You don't need to fix Oz plates to your car but instead you get issued with a bit of paper, which is your proof of registration and your 3rd party insurance cover. Once you have that, it'll cover you for any Oz state.

So, it sounds like there might be a couple of things going on here:

1 - You didn't do that last bit of the registration process (get yourself off to a VIC Roads office if you haven't).
2 - Technology - You're just confusing the hell out of the ANPR system, the coppers don't know what to do and just slap you with a fine!!

Personally, if you're registered and it's just an issue with tech, I'd just ignore it all & stick the fines in your scrap-book. As a traveller, you don't really have an address they can track you back to!! ;)

M

[Cracka]

Exactly right Garrycol, thats why I'm just trying to see if he had his plate and label displayed, if he didn't, that would be sufficient grounds for the unreg infringement . It would be interesting to see who told him to buy the CTP as it is clearly written in that RMS guideline that he is exempt from it!

It sounds as though he has been given the stuff around from the start.

Fourwheel, is your vehicle currently registered in England?

I have posted my replies assuming you were as I did not think you would be issued the carnet without current registration.

[Mike_S]

Julian Seal (GFour on here) is also driving round Oz in his UK registered D3 and as far as I'm aware, hasn't had any issues. When he arrived here in Melbourne, we discussed the insurance issue and after some ringing around I'm pretty certain he arranged both insurance & full breakdown cover with RACV for not a lot of $$$'s. Same as you, he has the carnet and is planning to be in Oz for almost a year. May be worth you calling RACV for a chat.

[fourwheeltravel]

is your vehicle currently registered in England? Yes it is but the meaning of registration is slightly different in the UK to Australia.
In the UK a registration NEVER expires, instead the person named in the registration document is liable for paying the road tax each year and getting the vehicle through an eligibility test. Once those two things have been done the vehicle can legally be driven on the road. I got my car tested the day I left so my 'registration' in Australian terms runs out in July, however I can't get it re-tested because the vehicle is here :S, so for now I can drive it around under an English registration, and CTP.


Right,

When you bring the car in, you have to clear through customs & AQIS but once through there you need to get the car registered. You don't need to fix Oz plates to your car but instead you get issued with a bit of paper, which is your proof of registration and your 3rd party insurance cover. Once you have that, it'll cover you for any Oz state.

So, it sounds like there might be a couple of things going on here:

1 - You didn't do that last bit of the registration process (get yourself off to a VIC Roads office if you haven't).
2 - Technology - You're just confusing the hell out of the ANPR system, the coppers don't know what to do and just slap you with a fine!!

Personally, if you're registered and it's just an issue with tech, I'd just ignore it all & stick the fines in your scrap-book. As a traveller, you don't really have an address they can track you back to!! ;)

M

Thanks for the help, to get the car registered I guess I have to get it tested to make sure it is roadworthy, or do I just have to have my valid MOT certificate and my V5 and the Carnet de Passage?

Do I need insurance before I get it registered or the other way around?

[Cracka]

Ok so currently you ARE registered in our terms, as far as New South Wales laws are concerned. Unless things have drastically changed in Victoria you should not have been given an infringement notice for being unregistered unless you were NOT displaying your registration plates and your MOT disc.

If you are going to be here after July then yes it will need to be registered, but as to the process it will differ depending on which State you are in when you get it registered. If you are still going to be in Victoria go and visit a VicRoads office. If in NSW refer to the RMS link I posted earlier and check the other tabs on the left side of the page.

It will need to be inspected for roadworthiness in any case as you are changing the registration.

[camel_landy]

Thanks for the help, to get the car registered I guess I have to get it tested to make sure it is roadworthy, or do I just have to have my valid MOT certificate and my V5 and the Carnet de Passage?

Do I need insurance before I get it registered or the other way around?

To do the formal Oz 'registration', as long as you have valid UK paperwork, you're good to go. You won't need a RWC but you will have to pay the couple of hundred $$$ for the Oz version of 3rd party insurance (which comes as part of the registration.

If you already did this in Sydney, it'll be valid across Oz.

As for fully comp insurance... Forget it. You'll not be able to get anything for a non-Oz registered vehicle.

M

[Nomad9]

Fourwheeltravel,
Don't feel to bad, I'm an Australian citizen living in WA, I bought a RRS in NSW, it was impossible for me to legally drive from NSW to WA. I tried my best, the dealer I bought from couldn't help me, and they tried quite hard. Once I left NSW I was not legal on three levels, even in NSW I wasn't legal on two. It was only by the dealer accidentally forgetting to take the plates off I managed the drive without getting pulled up.
Once back in WA I could legally get a permit to drive to the testing station to get the vehicle over the pits and registered.
I insured the vehicle in NSW on NSW plates with me as the owner, had push come to shove I'm not sure how insured I actually was.
What you could try is get the vehicle to WA (somehow) after you've sold your vehicle to a local resident, take it over the pits, you only have to do this once in WA as long as you don't do anything daft to yoir truck or act like an idiot, register the vehicle and then borrow the vehicle off the person you sold it to for the duration of your visit, then buy it back off them when you decide to leave and stick your own rego plates and licence sticker when you get back home. If you sell it cheap enough both ways the stamp duty would be minimal.
Ludicrous I know, however the licencing laws and rules between states are ridiculous, the problem is everybody wants a buck or two.
I wish you the best of luck.

[Leyland1980]

Surely the fact you are on a carnet should mean that you do not have to register here. Unless of course you are planning on staying.

[camel_landy]

Surely the fact you are on a carnet should mean that you do not have to register here. Unless of course you are planning on staying.

No... The Carnet is a customs/duty thing.

There is still a registration process to use it on the road, which as long as the car is legal for use in the originating country, this is merely a formality.

M

[ezyrama]

Get a QLD address and register it there, put QLD plates on it and you wont have to get it retested (MOT) ever again. You could always do the "sell" the vehicle thing as Nomad9 suggested and "borrow" it for the duration of the trip. The people at the motor registry offices dont give a rats how much you put down for sales value (most wouldnt know what the cars worth anyway)

[Red90Puma]

Hi Richard
I am also looking for advice but from you this time if I may.
Will be driving a 90 puma from Singapore to london shortly, and cannot sort out insurance for various countries. Can you please tell me what you did ?
Thanks
RayQUOTE=fourwheeltravel;1870632]Hey guys, I come here on bended knee asking for some advise about driving my temporarily imported defender 110 in Australia, as far as I can make out from the minefield of legislation and bureaucracy it's bloody difficult if not that then really confusing!

Two friends and I temporarily imported two defender 110's into Australia after touriwng Europe, Central Asia, Mongolia and Russia needless to say the most confusing country to drive in so far has been Australia, each state/territory has different rules and regs as to the eligibility of driving a temporarily imported vehicles and I have got myself really confused as to what documents I need to drive legally.

We shipped to Sydney and cleared AQIS with minor hiccups and a hefty cleaning bill as the Australian/Russian standards of cleaning a vehicle don't quite match up. We purchased a three month Compulsory Third Party insurance certificate and made a B-Line for Melbourne to meet up with family and a couch we could sleep on. On the way we were stopped twice by the police for driving an unregistered vehicle and in Victoria we were issued with a hefty $700 fine (which we are contesting). A couple of days later I found Marcus through this website who allowed us to park our rig out of the city in the safety of his home in Warragul whilst we work in Melbourne to pay back various family members for what has turned out to be a very expensive trip. and here we are approaching three months in Australia and with our current CTP insurance about to expire I wanted some tips or anybody's experience on the best insurers for this type of vehicle.

Further to my first request for help I would like any information/ help on the different rules required to drive the cars through all the territories (which I intend to do!)

Perhaps we can take the information compiled in this thread and make a guide for fellow would-be adventurers.

Thanks in advance,
Richard

PS. Not sure if this thread is in the right place :S[/QUOTE]