Hare and Forbes Sale

[flagg]

Thought some may be interested in this..

http://images.machineryhouse.com.au/events/3-Day-Sale-March_2013_Lowres.pdf

[loanrangie]

Got the catalog today, got some nice gear - oh for the money and space to play with it all :(.

[Bigbjorn]

They are getting closer to my prices! Must keep an eye out or they will be underselling me before I notice.

[Hoges]

Got the catalog today, got some nice gear - oh for the money and space to play with it all :(.

x2 plus 20 yrs younger!!! :twisted:

[dungarover]

I have the space but not the money at this point :(

Trav

[Davehoos]

I used to live a few doors down from the george st,parramatta showroom.

they had all sorts of very old gear in the window like a antique shop.
then they started selling asian $100 drills and lathes and moved out.

I thought they closed down.

[LandyAndy]

My boy has one of their lathes sitting in my shed,it was around $4500 with tooling.
Been an excellent bit of gear.
He has left home to study engineering at UWA.
Parting comment,DONT use my lathe dad you will wreck it,if you want anything made I can come home on a weekend and do it:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew

[JayBoRover]

My boy has one of their lathes sitting in my shed,it was around $4500 with tooling.
Been an excellent bit of gear.
He has left home to study engineering at UWA.
Parting comment,DONT use my lathe dad you will wreck it,if you want anything made I can come home on a weekend and do it:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew
I'm seriously eyeing up the hobby lathe kit on the back page. I'm making a list of the things I could make with a lathe that I have thought about buying. When I looked at materials for my latest project this weekend, I figured $50 for the materials to make the 6 items I need that cost $50 each on Fleabay. So that's $300 justified. Now what else have I wanted a lathe for in the last couple of years??:angel:

[loanrangie]

Combined mill and lathe would be awesome .

[mick88]

Just a tip!
If you are looking at getting a lathe make sure you get one with a reasonable size spindle bore and good size swing. As most here are into playing with or restoring series vehicles a lathe that can take a 10 or 11 inch brake drum (without removing the block) is handy.
Other than that it is endless what can be knocked up in a lathe.

Cheers, Mick.

[Sprint]

oh man..... you know you have spent too much time with access to all the right gear when you can happily justify probably half a million dollars worth of gear without really trying....

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

I also got their catalogue, but Im not rushing in, I paid good money for a Heavy duty garage trolly jack from them , as I didn't want a cheap quality one only used it 6 times in 12 months I wanted to use it yesterday and it just leaks oil from the hydraulics and no lift. :mad: My 20 tonne press leaks oil, the scope I bought lost it's colour screen then stopped working. The rattle gun kit, the wrench stropped working, the rattle gun forward/ reverse slide bar, now pushes out if not careful.
Everything has happened when warranty runs out.

The large pedestal drill however has been good, even though the cheap plastic flip up safety eye shield broke on it's 2nd use.
The wall mounted air hose auto retrieve reel functions beautifully
A mate just spent $13K on a lathe and mill for his home garage, he hasn't had any probs.
but I'm going to be a bit more careful of their products
I was considering a Mig /Tig and plasma cutter, but a bit turned off

[Carnut1100]

If you're planning a lathe mill drill combo...bear in mind they are quite small.
I have the AL-280P which has the mill head rising from the headstock.
Good in theory but no way of power feeding past the mill, can't reverse the leadscrew to cut left hand threads, and the height above centre and swim numbers look good but come at the cost of any sort of rigidity....
Much better getting the slightly more expensive one with a separate mill motor that mounts mid-bed. Yes it has small swing but you can actually use it without too much chatter....

[Bigbjorn]

If you must have a milling machine, think on this from the former owner/operator of a machine shop (me). It is said that a yacht is a hole in the water into which you throw money and a swimming pool is a hole in the ground into which you pour money. A milling machine is a black hole at the back of the shop at which you throw money. Every time you go to do a job on it you seem to have to buy a cutter, a fixture, a jig. If you must have one don't bother with those near useless tiny model makers combined lathe-mill-drills. Get a proper machine. A rigid one that will take a decent cut. A universal mill with motorised overarm and a vertical head. Buy second hand and look for the accessories, arbors, vertical head, collets, autolock, dividing head and tailstock with gear train, that should be with it. Lotza lolly if you don't get them and have to find and buy. Russians made good machine tools.

Edit:- by "take a decent cut" I mean 10-12mm cut with a slab mill on the arbor. Also look for height between the table and the arbor. No point in having a machine where you can't get the table with mounted workpiece low enough to go under the cutter.

[JayBoRover]

Just a tip!
If you are looking at getting a lathe make sure you get one with a reasonable size spindle bore and good size swing. As most here are into playing with or restoring series vehicles a lathe that can take a 10 or 11 inch brake drum (without removing the block) is handy.
Other than that it is endless what can be knocked up in a lathe.

Cheers, Mick.
"Reasonable size spindle bore". The AL320G Hobby Lathe package is a 38mm spindle bore. Is that "reasonable"? The next size up seems to be 51mm SB, but it's a giant price step and crosses the "unjustifiable" boundary.

"good size swing". The AL320G is 600mm between centres and 160mm centre height. That should do 320mm diameter, which is well more than 11", but not sure about allowance required for jaw chuck to grip a brake drum. I really hadn't thought of using it for something as big as a brake drum, but you make a good point worth considering.

I appreciate your input.:cool:
Cheers
John B

[Bigbjorn]

"Reasonable size spindle bore". The AL320G Hobby Lathe package is a 38mm spindle bore. Is that "reasonable"? The next size up seems to be 51mm SB, but it's a giant price step and crosses the "unjustifiable" boundary.

"good size swing". The AL320G is 600mm between centres and 160mm centre height. That should do 320mm diameter, which is well more than 11", but not sure about allowance required for jaw chuck to grip a brake drum. I really hadn't thought of using it for something as big as a brake drum, but you make a good point worth considering.

I appreciate your input.:cool:
Cheers
John B

Buy length in a lathe. If you are an automotive hobbyist, sooner rather than later you are going to machine a shaft or long bar. As to spindle bore, I recommend 75-80mm so one can get a decent bit of bar or tube up the spindle. Between centres I would like 1500-1800mm. Check the spindle speeds. A good lathe will have a speed range from 30-40 rpm to over 2000. The low speed is for amateurs and apprentices to practice screw cutting and the high speeds are necessary for small diameters and tungsten carbide tooling. The AL320 is by my standards a small hobbyist lathe suitable for light chuck work. I had a long bed Hercus in my shop and all it got used for was light chuck work, making bushes, mandrels, etc. Everybody's favourite machine was the 8' Colchester.

[p38arover]

Combined mill and lathe would be awesome .

The AL280P? I had one 20 years ago (heck, is it that long!?) but sold it as I felt it wasn't that good/useful.

[Carnut1100]

Agreed....

[JayBoRover]

Buy length in a lathe. If you are an automotive hobbyist, sooner rather than later you are going to machine a shaft or long bar. As to spindle bore, I recommend 75-80mm so one can get a decent bit of bar or tube up the spindle. Between centres I would like 1500-1800mm. Check the spindle speeds. A good lathe will have a speed range from 30-40 rpm to over 2000. The low speed is for amateurs and apprentices to practice screw cutting and the high speeds are necessary for small diameters and tungsten carbide tooling. The AL320 is by my standards a small hobbyist lathe suitable for light chuck work. I had a long bed Hercus in my shop and all it got used for was light chuck work, making bushes, mandrels, etc. Everybody's favourite machine was the 8' Colchester.
Errr, wow! That's like a $15k lathe ... for "an automotive hobbyist"?:confused: Sounds like serious workshop professional to me. I'm guessing you had a pro workshop of some sort. A shaft that big, that needs lathe work, will get farmed out or replaced. How many complete S1 Land Rovers could I buy with $12.5k?:p ($15k less the $2.5k for a hobbyist lathe?). That'd be somewhere between 6 and 30 in my own experience:D.

So with a SB of 38mm, swing of 160, centres of 600mm and speed range of 60 to 1600rpm, the AL-320G doesn't cut the mustard. Food for thought.

Cheers

[Bigbjorn]

Errr, wow! That's like a $15k lathe ... for "an automotive hobbyist"?:confused: Sounds like serious workshop professional to me. I'm guessing you had a pro workshop of some sort. A shaft that big, that needs lathe work, will get farmed out or replaced. How many complete S1 Land Rovers could I buy with $12.5k?:p ($15k less the $2.5k for a hobbyist lathe?). That'd be somewhere between 6 and 30 in my own experience:D.

So with a SB of 38mm, swing of 160, centres of 600mm and speed range of 60 to 1600rpm, the AL-320G doesn't cut the mustard. Food for thought.

Cheers
Those little lathes are meant for model makers and light work in mechanic's, fridgy's, and electrician's shops. Don't try taking a 10 mm cut on stainless bar with one.

When I closed the shop I would have kept the 8' Colchester but did not have room for it at home or three phase power. I kept the Liang Dei (Taiwan) toolroom lathe, 42" x 15", lovely little lathe, highly accurate as expected of a toolroom lathe.

In a professional machine shop, the 8' Colchester is on the dividing line between small and medium. I also had a Chung Kun that could hold 22' between centres and swing 4' diameter over the bed. Bought it at auction most reasonably and it cost more to jackhammer it out of its foundation and move it to my shop than I paid for it.

[roverrescue]

and brian you have stated the truth in that post.
For a home shop on single phase where you are unlikely to need 10mm cuts in 316rod.
Hell you are most likely going tobe chucking up rod that would be thin air after two 10mm cut!

A metre of bed and couple hundred of swing and you will get great satisfaction doing a lot of jobs and not tie up 25m of floor space.

Buy it and enjoy making chips jaybo, entice brian over to show you some machining knowledge and just put up with the fact he will tell you that you shoulda gone bigger :-)

S

[Carnut1100]

Always get the biggest you can afford for sure, you'll never regret having that bit extra....but 10mm cuts ate the preserve of commercial work.
A metre is a nice bed length. 1.2 is really sweet.
Go for the absolute biggest spindle bore you can possibly get....the most useful dimension of all!

[JayBoRover]

There seems to be some mix-up of realistic expectations and what is actually offered. To get >1m centres and >200mm centre height seems to mean minimum of 3 phase 415Vac and >$10k. (Just restricting my research to the Hare & Forbes catalogue). Seems to be getting out of the "automotive hobbyist" or "modelling" realm and into the light industrial realm. A single phase 250Vac lathe would surely be one the first considerations for the average home hobbyist. That means biggest option is 51mm SB, 178mm CH and 1000mm centres and that comes in on special at $5.5k - out of my league:(.

My potential first project would be a 130mm tube of 18mm OD stepping down to 9mm OD for the last 10mm each end with a 5mm ID hole through each end. Easily within the capabilities of the AL-320G. $50 for the materials to make 6 units (including some flat steel plate for the bases and a few welding rods) to save myself $300 in buying them. That's $250 towards the $2.5k justification - well into the "hobbyist/modeller" realm. (Could probably sell a few to mates too).

But now I'm thinking maybe people are right and I'd regret getting something too small ... so will probably end up with nothing - certainly at this stage as the sale is finished and I got too confused to make a decision:confused:. So no lathe for me for now and I'm shopping on eBay for the 6 items I need, thus reducing the justification in the future. Ah well:).

Worst thing is I avoided going to Hare & Forbes, and the temptation to make a spur of the moment decision, so missed several other items that were on special that I do need:(.

[Killer]

I hear that they will be having another sale in November.

Cheers, Mick.

[steveG]

JayBoRover, my own experience is from the hobby side of things, and I don't qualify as even a machinist's toenail, but here's my situation/thoughts..

25 years ago I was given an ex-TAFE 9" Hercus, spindle bore is only about 25mm. Had screwcutting capability and was a bit tired - but the price was right.

Its done a lot of jobs over the years that I simply couldn't have done without it. Something that would do heavier cuts, occasionally swing larger stock etc would have been nice, but for the amount that I use it its been more useful than not.

A couple of weeks ago I had to clean up a brand new swivel bush for the county (internal diam was too small when manufactured), yesterday I took a few mm off an alternator pulley.
Without a lathe it would have been a case of returning parts, leaning on a mate for favours or paying someone to do those jobs - along with the hours/days of stuffing around that goes with it.

The largest piece I've ever swung would be around 150mm, and while at times it would be nice to poke a piece of 50mm bar through the spindle I'm not generally doing long lengths so its not a show stopper - just cut your stock to a more suitable size and chuck it.

IMO, almost any lathe is better than no lathe, so buy as big as you can afford and enjoy it.
Lathes aren't like children or wives. Its not a lifetime decision and if you find you're wanting something better you can easily sell and upgrade. Single phase lathes always seem to hold their price so you're unlikely to suffer much financially if you do.

Steve

[POD]

I went through the process last year of researching and buying a lathe, my lovely wife told me that she wanted to buy me a lathe for my 50th birthday but she let me do the buying so I wouldn't end up with something I didn't want. I started off looking at small 240v hobby machines, thinking a chinese lathe-mill-drill might be handy. There are forums dedicated to these machines and they are dominated by posts discussing how to modify them and upgrade them to avoid the many problems that they have. Essentially they are too small to do any of the 3 functions very well at all. The other gem of information that I discovered was that you can in fact run a 3-phase machine off single-phase power with affordable arrangements- see my post in this section 'running 3-phase gear on single-phase power'. I was told by those in the know (including Brian on here- thanks) to buy the biggest machine I could afford and house. That's just what I did and I don't regret it- I picked up a used Japanese industrial machine with just over 4' between centres, 16" swing and 3 1/2" spindle bore. It has a 3hp 3-phase motor that I am running off 240v via a VFD given to me by a mate. It will swing a 16" wheel rim without the gap insert removed- one of these days I'll take the annoying ridge out of my alloy rims so I can use my beadbreaker on them. It will take a 40mm square trailer axle through the spindle. It will part-off without any of the problems that I read about with smaller machines due to their lack of rigidity. You can do small jobs in a big machine (yesterday I cleaned up the armature out of my winch motor on it) but not vice-versa. I've been having fun learning how to use it and I don't anticipate paying anyone else for machining jobs very often in the future.