Failed Td5 head gasket?

[OffTrack]

Not sure if I'm having a nervous nellie moment or the concerns are real...

We were heading off today for a week up in the SA and Victorian Mallee and made it as far as Ravenswood. During a stop for morning tea I had a peek under the front of the car and found a rather ominous looking puddle of red OAT. After popping the bonnet I found a fairly steady stream of drips coming from the end of the short hose that connects the radiator to the expansion tank return pipe.

What makes me a bit concerned is that when I topped up the coolant this morning the header tank was still pressurised despite the fact it hadn't been driven for at least 12 hours.

The Td5 has done just on 240K km, and the coolant level in the header tank is has started dropping by 5mm a week over the past 3-4 weeks. This coincided with turning up the boost by 3-4psi.

I've pulled the short hose off and it appeared to be ok with no obvious damage or cuts to the outside.

Rather than risk damaging the engine I've had the RACV tow it back to Melbourne, with a suspected blown head gasket (totalcare rules, ok).

I've checked oil and coolant for signs of contamination and both seem to be fine. There is no indication of "puffing" with the oil filler cap removed and engine running, and there is no obvious sign of bubbling at the coolant header tank. The engine is running fine, and had been happily cruising at 110 for the best part of an hour. There had been a bit of a smell from the engine while climbing a couple of the steeper gradients but I had put this down to the 2nd battery being heated by the proximity of the turbo and off gassing.

I'm starting to wonder if it isn't just the joiner hose leaking with age, but feel like I really should be pulling the head to find out for sure?

cheers
Paul

[Judo]

I guess it comes down to, how sure are you the coolant level drop isn't from the hose leaking over the last 3-4 weeks?

Do you have factory temp gauge or after market? Any change lately?

[robbotd5]

G'day Paul.
It is a bummer when your trip gets ruined by a mechanical problem. 240K?. Maybe it's time to pull the head and check things. It depends if the car is a keeper or not. Mine is and I have gone down the road of a new AMC head and 5 new genuine injectors because of fuel dilution. Did you have your nanocom on instrument mode? If so what were the coolant temps?.
Regards
Robbo

[OffTrack]

I guess it comes down to, how sure are you the coolant level drop isn't from the hose leaking over the last 3-4 weeks?

Do you have factory temp gauge or after market? Any change lately?

I check the hoses on a regular basis for signs of leaking. Most have been changed, apart from a couple that had obviously been changed by the PO. I'm using red OAT and leaks are pretty easy to spot.

There was no pre-existing signs of leaking from the hose in question when I checked yesterday.


I hook up the nanocom every couple of weeks to check how things are behaving. Last time was about a week ago as I was curious how the cooling system was handling the hot weather. I was getting 88-92 for country driving, which is same as last 12 months or so. There is no indication that it is overheating. I have a suspicion the PO might have had a hose failure at some point, so it's possible the engine was overheated prior to me purchasing, but I've done 32k with no real issues.

[Disco Muppet]

If there was a puddle under the car then it's unlikely to be a HG I think.
240k is around the right KM period, but if there's been no indication of overheating and it's a reasonably considerable external leak then I'd be surprised if it's a HG as I figure when the HG goes the coolant doesn't leak, it gets toasted.
I'd be looking at all your hoses, radiator, stuff like that first.
How pressurized was it? I've taken the cap off for inspections and top ups after a day or two of not driving it and there's always been a bit of pressure escaping.
Been there when I first bought it, Thankfully it was just my fuel cooler O rings that weep in the cold, and recently when I came out to find the level had dropped about 3cm!
Then I remembered my mechanic doesn't fill to the top of the tank and I'd topped it up while very hot...
Best of luck, here's hoping it's not. And if it is well then you'll have a near new Td5 when you inevitably come out the other side of it :)
Cheers, and fingers crossed!
Muppet

[alien]

I suspect there is a small leak somewhere and the smell was the coolant getting hot as it weaped.
Have a good look at the water pump tell-tale hole for signs of weaping.
Don't forget the known little steped hose under the turbo and the fuel cooler.
The red coolant leaves a nice pink stain when the motor is cool;)

Let us know what you find please Paul.
Cheers, Kyle.

[OffTrack]

If there was a puddle under the car then it's unlikely to be a HG I think.
240k is around the right KM period, but if there's been no indication of overheating and it's a reasonably considerable external leak then I'd be surprised if it's a HG as I figure when the HG goes the coolant doesn't leak, it gets toasted.
I'd be looking at all your hoses, radiator, stuff like that first.
How pressurized was it? I've taken the cap off for inspections and top ups after a day or two of not driving it and there's always been a bit of pressure escaping.
Been there when I first bought it, Thankfully it was just my fuel cooler O rings that weep in the cold, and recently when I came out to find the level had dropped about 3cm!
Then I remembered my mechanic doesn't fill to the top of the tank and I'd topped it up while very hot...
Best of luck, here's hoping it's not. And if it is well then you'll have a near new Td5 when you inevitably come out the other side of it :)
Cheers, and fingers crossed!
Muppet

Like I said I might be doing the nervous nellie thing.

It could well be just a case of a leaky joiner hose. I've picked up some high pressure fuel hose to make up a replacement joiner which I'll fit in the morning and do a 20km freeway run out to my parents place to test. I'm planning on getting the cooling system pressure tested and "sniffed" on Monday morning before committing to pulling the head.

cheers
Paul

[OffTrack]

I suspect there is a small leak somewhere and the smell was the coolant getting hot as it weaped.
Have a good look at the water pump tell-tale hole for signs of weaping.
Don't forget the known little steped hose under the turbo and the fuel cooler.
The red coolant leaves a nice pink stain when the motor is cool;)

Let us know what you find please Paul.
Cheers, Kyle.


I certainly hope it isn't the water pump. I replaced the original with a LR part when I did the o-ring in the mounting bracket in December 2011.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=57919&stc=1&d=1363429012

Fuel cooler o-rings were done shortly after I changed the radiator hoses in 2011. I've fitted double o-rings at each end and it's been leak free since I did the fix.

I'll check on the little hose. I have one in the spares box so I might replace just in case.

cheers
Paul

[gazk]

My experience which ultimately ended in a new head gasket went like this:
A few small coolant hose leaks following replacement of them all.
Fixed those leaks with new/different clamps - those leaks stopped.
Coolant system found to be over-pressurising resulting in release of coolant through coolant tank cap pressure release valve.
The Low coolant level in tank increased when cap was loosened.
The pressure release was often considerable even after the system had cooled down.
Replaced coolant tank cap - same result.
Loss of coolant through the relief valve became common - I just topped it up for a while.
There was no coolant in oil, no steam in exhaust.
The Coolant temperature never went above the half-way mark.

Eventually I got sick of this routine and pulled the head - found partly sheared plastic dowels and evidence of a leak from No 3 cylinder into the coolant gallery.

New head gasket etc fitted - over-pressurised coolant system and coolant loss problem solved.

Moral of the story - When the system is over-pressurised the coolant will leak from the weakest point - usually a hose connection or the coolant tank cap pressure relief valve.

[feral]

As above @ 135,000 k's for me.


It happens...just later for you.

[OffTrack]

Hi Gary,

I'm fairly sure something similar is happening on mine.

I fixed the leaking bleeder hose, and after a drive today the hose that runs from the water pump outlet to the coolant rail started leaking at both ends. I've spent a few hours messing with the cooling system and changing the "little hose" (which was fine until I hacked it off with a knife :angel:) for a new one I had stashed away.

I'm getting the system tested in the morning so that should give me better idea - perhaps.

Did you get the head tested/machined or did you just fit a new head gasket?

cheers
Paul

[Judo]

Re: coolant in oil, I would have thought it depends where and how badly the gasket is leaking. From what I've seen the most common gasket leak on D1's and D2's is between the cylinder and cooling system, so the pressure is mostly 1 way - cylinder compression into cooling system.

So what I'm saying is I agree. :) Altho does sound like a HG. :(

[Disco Muppet]

Did you get the head tested/machined or did you just fit a new head gasket?


Better you do it now while you're there than fit a new gasket and have to get the head tested/skimmed at a later date and have to take it all off again.

[gazk]

Hi Gary,

I'm fairly sure something similar is happening on mine.

I fixed the leaking bleeder hose, and after a drive today the hose that runs from the water pump outlet to the coolant rail started leaking at both ends. I've spent a few hours messing with the cooling system and changing the "little hose" (which was fine until I hacked it off with a knife :angel:) for a new one I had stashed away.

I'm getting the system tested in the morning so that should give me better idea - perhaps.

Did you get the head tested/machined or did you just fit a new head gasket?

cheers
Paul

Checked the head for flatness - It was OK. Then fitted new gasket, bolts, steel dowels, exhaust and inlet manifold gaskets as well as the front and rear camshaft rubber plugs. While you are there its worthwhile to clean the inlet manifold and check /replace the exhaust manifold studs and check the exhaust manifold flatness. If its an EU3 it is also easy to replace the FPR hose while the inlet manifold is off.

[OffTrack]

Checked the head for flatness - It was OK. Then fitted new gasket, bolts, steel dowels, exhaust and inlet manifold gaskets as well as the front and rear camshaft rubber plugs. While you are there its worthwhile to clean the inlet manifold and check /replace the exhaust manifold studs and check the exhaust manifold flatness. If its an EU3 it is also easy to replace the FPR hose while the inlet manifold is off.

Hi Gary,

Thanks for that I've been reading the HG procedure in RAVE and it appears providing the face doesn't have warping of greater than 0.0004"/0.1mm it's reusable as is.

There is a Tech Bulletin on unnecessary head replacement that indicates that fretting marks are acceptable but any raised areas in the HG sealing area should be removed with a fine carborundum stone.


Prior to refitting, the fire face of the head should have any raised material in the area of the gasket sealing bead removed using a carborundum stone. Only a fine stone in good condition should be used. The face should then be thoroughly cleaned before the head is refitted with a new gasket. Providing that all other aspects of cylinder head condition are satisfactory, (flatness for example), the cylinder head can be refitted.

cheers
Paul

[gazk]

Just for info: The new head gasket was fitted 6 months ago at 226000. I've done 14000km since then with no problems - apart from the fuel pump that started making loud noises last Friday, it was the original pump - I guess 240000km isn't too bad for an electric fuel pump.

I have a low coolant alarm fitted so with regular coolant level checks and the alarm for backup I was happy to hold off on the inevitable HG replacement until a convenient time.

[turbopsi]

Hi Paul,

Just an FYI

I also had coolant being blown out of the small overflow pipe on the expansion tank.

I checked the expansion tank cap o-rings and they were pretty flat so I swapped the cap over with a new genuine LR cap. The overflow leak stopped but then exposed a bad radiator top hose weeping out of the internal webbing.

Had a new top hos installed a few weeks back and all looks good so far.

Might want to try a new cap and see how you go from there...

[OffTrack]

Hi Paul,

Just an FYI

I also had coolant being blown out of the small overflow pipe on the expansion tank.

I checked the expansion tank cap o-rings and they were pretty flat so I swapped the cap over with a new genuine LR cap. The overflow leak stopped but then exposed a bad radiator top hose weeping out of the internal webbing.

Had a new top hos installed a few weeks back and all looks good so far.

Might want to try a new cap and see how you go from there...

No leakage from the cap, so doubt it will help.

Anyway I decided to bite the bullet and have new head and fitting kit on the way from Turners. Planning on keeping the D2 for a while, so better to do it once, and do it right.

cheers
Paul

[Judo]

A new head gasket? Or head? Quite a difference in those items! :p

[Redback]

Hey Paul, I had the exact same symptoms as GazK, unfortunately for me the head was stuffed, but I managed to get a second hand one, had it fully tested and it was all good, $4030 all up and I was back in business.

Baz.

[OffTrack]

Hey Paul, I had the exact same symptoms as GazK, unfortunately for me the head was stuffed, but I managed to get a second hand one, had it fully tested and it was all good, $4030 all up and I was back in business.

Baz.

I'm going to DIY the change over :eek:

LDF500160 TD5 Cylinder Head - early
TD5 Cylinder head fitting Kit
LBF500020 Kit cylinder head
STC 4600 Hylomar 3400 Sealant

£1488//$2160 including shipping.

I'm expecting around $400 gst and handling charges from the courier company on top of that.

I decided by the time I stuffed around stripping the head down for crack tests and skimming, had the valves recut, stem seals replaced etc etc plus the downtime while all this was being done it simply wasn't worth rooting around.

Instead we've rented a car for 5 days to get at least a bit of a break. I'll have the head and sundries for the weekend, and I can do the whole thing in one go.

cheers
Paul

[Andrew D]

Hi Paul,

Just an FYI

I also had coolant being blown out of the small overflow pipe on the expansion tank.

I checked the expansion tank cap o-rings and they were pretty flat so I swapped the cap over with a new genuine LR cap. The overflow leak stopped but then exposed a bad radiator top hose weeping out of the internal webbing.

Had a new top hos installed a few weeks back and all looks good so far.

Might want to try a new cap and see how you go from there...

x2

If the cap is the original (+12 years) it would be worthwhile replacing.

I have a 2003 rig and coolant has a obvious aroma. Made a difference to my car. I could smell it before I could see anything.

Regards
Andrew

[Sitec]

Hello. All sounds too familiar... gazk describes in his first post pretty well how it went for me too! Plastic dowels turn to powder, head slips and before you know it the cooling system is over pressurising! Step 1, borrow a pressure tester. Step 2, fit to header tank and pump up to the working pressure of the cap. Step 3, run engine at fast idle and watch gauge from cab.... It should remain steady. If it gradually increases, head gasket! Would save your money tho... Head and injectors will be fine! Had mine skimmed as it had a couple of slip marks. Note, when stripping down, make sure you keep the hydraulic followers upright and in the order they came out (same goes for everything re order and location!). While there change the internal injector harness too.. If yours has not got oil running through the wires already.. it won't b long before it has!! Have fun with the new rocker gasket too... Fitting mine went along the lines of {#%%^}*|<#{£<€%^>]%_<{! Beer!!!!

[turbopsi]

Have fun with the new rocker gasket too... Fitting mine went along the lines of {#%%^}*|<#{£<€%^>]%_<{! Beer!!!!

Hey Sitec, I'm about to do mine. Any tips?

I've read a few posts about using some sealant around the "D" rubbers on the new gasket and removing the rear engine acoustic cover as shown on Urban Panzer's website which I dont have on mine?

www.discovery2.co.uk / Workshop /Injector Harness (http://www.discovery2.co.uk/Injector_harness.html)?

Cheers.

[Sitec]

Yeah Turbopsi, get the rubber gasket/seal out of its wrapper about a week before you start the job, and flatten it out so it resembles its final shape. I actually refitted the old one as I got so cross with the new one. Two weeks later I was fitting the new one as the original leaked!! In that time the kinks had straightened out. I used little dabs of the really sticky Wurth/Sikaflex black goo. Prob not ideal but it held the gasket in place long enough to flip the cover over, and navigate that tin splash plate in besides the injectors. Use brakeclean on the rocker cover first so it's 100% oil free. Good luck. Have the 'calming drink' on hand!

[OffTrack]

Yeah Turbopsi, get the rubber gasket/seal out of its wrapper about a week before you start the job, and flatten it out so it resembles its final shape. I actually refitted the old one as I got so cross with the new one. Two weeks later I was fitting the new one as the original leaked!! In that time the kinks had straightened out. I used little dabs of the really sticky Wurth/Sikaflex black goo. Prob not ideal but it held the gasket in place long enough to flip the cover over, and navigate that tin splash plate in besides the injectors. Use brakeclean on the rocker cover first so it's 100% oil free. Good luck. Have the 'calming drink' on hand!

I can never fathom why people have so much trouble? You use the metal//rubber spaces that fit to the top side of the cam cover to hold the gasket in place. Any "solution" that involves multiple assistants or adhesives is irrefutable evidence you are doing it completely wrong. It's probably the easiest job you can do on a Td5 and should take 30 minutes to remove and refit, and that includes the acoustic cover.

[elshano]

just got the news that the v8's got a failed head gasket too. Less than 200k kms. Feel your pain!

[justinc]

just got the news that the v8's got a failed head gasket too. Less than 200k kms. Feel your pain!

:(:(:(

200,000km, you are doing well. I've done them on D2 V8's as low as 60,000km in the past, external coolant leaks mostly though.
JC

[James]

The engine is running fine, and had been happily cruising at 110 for the best part of an hour. There had been a bit of a smell from the engine while climbing a couple of the steeper gradients but I had put this down to the 2nd battery being heated by the proximity of the turbo and off gassing.
cheers
Paul

Thinking of the simpler fixes . . .
Is the viscous fan working correctly?

[strangy]

Good move with your choice replacing Paul.

Don't forget to check out Psimpson's tutorial.

[gazk]

I can never fathom why people have so much trouble? You use the metal//rubber spaces that fit to the top side of the cam cover to hold the gasket in place. Any "solution" that involves multiple assistants or adhesives is irrefutable evidence you are doing it completely wrong. It's probably the easiest job you can do on a Td5 and should take 30 minutes to remove and refit, and that includes the acoustic cover.

The packaging of the rocker cover gaskets can cause problems particularly the rear D shaped bit - I gets twisted when shrink wrapped. As suggested in another post unwrap it a couple of weeks before use and it might straighten out, possibly warm it up with a hairdryer ?. I had one that was badly twisted from Karcraft and took it back to exchange for one that was not twisted.

[OffTrack]

Good move with your choice replacing Paul.

Don't forget to check out Psimpson's tutorial.

Under the circumstances I think it's the best way forward. The engine has done 240K km and by JustinC's reckoning it's about time that the head was reconditioned so I'm treating it as an expensive recondition ;)

I've been reading through Psimpson's tutorials and they make a fantastic adjunct to the instructions in RAVE.

I'm having a bit of trouble getting the head from DHL. Despite having paid the $291.00 customs charges at midday yesterday using their automated processing service the package is still showing as "on hold pending payment". I've called their customer service line three times this morning with no additional progress. At this rate I probably won't get the head until Monday.

I've put in a few orders for other bits and pieces that should arrive next week:
- bleed hose (radiator to expansion tank)
- expansion tank cap
- gaskets for turbo to manifold and oil feeds
- injector harness o-rings
- cam sprocket bolts
plus pretty much anything else that is followed by the phrase " and discard" in the RAVE procedure.

Also have a E14 1/2" drive socket and angular torque gauge ordered.

cheers
Paul

[OffTrack]

The packaging of the rocker cover gaskets can cause problems particularly the rear D shaped bit - I gets twisted when shrink wrapped. As suggested in another post unwrap it a couple of weeks before use and it might straighten out, possibly warm it up with a hairdryer ?. I had one that was badly twisted from Karcraft and took it back to exchange for one that was not twisted.

True enough. Even so adhesive and additional pairs of hands will do little to improve the ease of fitting deformed rubber gaskets.

[OffTrack]

DHL paid a visit late this afternoon.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/351.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8579792782/)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/352.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8579791782/)

I haven't unpacked the head as I want to keep it sealed until I'm ready to work on it. There are a few bits hidden away beneath the head itself, like head bolts hylomar sealant and cam cover gasket. I've ended up with 2 sets of injector o-rings and washers, and both plastic and steel dowels.

cheers
Paul

[OffTrack]

I've put in a few orders for other bits and pieces that should arrive next week:
- bleed hose (radiator to expansion tank)
- expansion tank cap
- gaskets for turbo to manifold and oil feeds
- injector harness o-rings
- cam sprocket bolts
plus pretty much anything else that is followed by the phrase " and discard" in the RAVE procedure.


Well R***** B*** have completely dropped the ball on this one. Their FAQ indicates orders of in stock items (which every single item I have ordered is) ship by 3.00pm the day of the order. A day and a half later the site still shows status as "order submitted to website". :mad: I used to get really fast turn-around from from them so it's incredibly frustrating this kind of crap happens just when you are relying on them to deliver. If they ship on Monday UK time there is only a remote chance I'll get the parts before Easter, so I've basically wasted my money. This is the last time I order from these clowns, Brit-car.co.uk is far more professional and has better stock depth.

cheers
Paul

[schuy1]

What a bummer! :( Murphy is catching up for easter!! I suppose that means you wont get away as you planned?

Cheers Scott

[OffTrack]

What a bummer! :( Murphy is catching up for easter!! I suppose that means you wont get away as you planned?

Cheers Scott

Actually spent 4 days away up in the Mallee this week which is why the last minute parts orders. I tell you, spending 4 days driving a rental RAV4 is a sharp reminder just how good the D2 is despite it's foibles. The RAV4 air con was struggling in 35°C heat despite all the settings at max, seats were uncomfortable, and it was just a generally plastic piece of junk. The D2 just feels solid in comparison. The killer was the lack of dual battery system - it's no fun camping without one.

If R***** B*** can't ship out on Saturday I can always get Graeme at British Car Components - spares and parts for British cars, Melbourne Victoria, Australia (http://www.britcar.com.au) in North Melbourne to order in the essentials and I'll have them by the following afternoon at the latest. I really should have just bitten the bullet and done that in the first place as British Car Components is only about 10 minutes walk from work. :angel: Anyway I'll leave that til Tuesday AM as I'll have a better idea if the parts will arrive in time.

I've booked a space in the carport at mum & dads on good friday so the head will be swapped by next saturday barring any complete disasters.

cheers
Paul

[schuy1]

HeHe yes the poor lil RAV suffers when you deprive it of bitumen and city living! :D

It is good you have a backup plan for parts though and sometimes when timelines are tight I think the bit you save is not worth the hassle.
Cheers Scott

[Judo]

That's crap about the parts shipping. :mad: It's always (frustratingly) the way these things go!

[Disco Muppet]

Second what Judo said about the parts, that's shocking.
A RAV4? Really OffTrack?
A moment of silence must now be observed.
I'd get in a Hilux before I got in one of those......
Best of luck with it mate, at least it will be running nicely when you're done :)

[OffTrack]

Second what Judo said about the parts, that's shocking.
A RAV4? Really OffTrack?
A moment of silence must now be observed.
I'd get in a Hilux before I got in one of those......
Best of luck with it mate, at least it will be running nicely when you're done :)

You have to take what is on offer. This was the Monday following the grand prix and the hire car office had a queue of tourists out the door. Anyway we were going on a holiday, not try to masquerade as tradies.

We've rented x-trail and prado prior to buying the d2. I'd take an x-trail over the prado for most of the driving we do.

That said I did give the prado a bit of a workout when we had it. I took it up the track to Mopoke Hut in Murray Sunset on standard road pressures and had traction control alarms going off in the soft sand, then manage to bog it to the axle in dangali np after a massive rain storm.

The x-trail isn't too bad and there are lift kits and accessories that would make it a bit more useable off road. My old man had a manual v8 d1 for a while and we borrowed that for a weekend away, which opened my eyes to the Discos. The v8 was a fuel pig even after it was fixed, and a trip up to the Warby Ranges was enough to convince me they were wallet killers. After driving a chipped D2 td5 auto there was no real question what I'd buy.

[Disco Muppet]

True.
I like how your path to LR included a bogged toyota. This makes me laugh :twisted:
My uncle has an X-trail and likes to do the grey nomad type drives with other convoys of similar vehicles and he really enjoys it.
Then again, his definition of a 'rough track' is somewhat tame :D

[OffTrack]

The bogged Prado incident also included a 50km walk to get help. It was aversion therapy at its finest. ;)

[Yorkie]

oi muppet stop distracting him, irish mike had stripped down his fender and fitted an isuzu in the number of pages going on here and not even a spanner turned. ;):D

[OffTrack]

Yorkie you seem to have forgotten the 280+ posts dedicated to mikes travails prior to getting to gippsland - that included 3-4 pages of discussion on whether a package had arrived in Alice springs and how slow auspost was, so pull yr head in ;)

[Yorkie]

Minor details. :p:D

[Disco Muppet]

The bogged Prado incident also included a 50km walk to get help. It was aversion therapy at its finest. ;)

:eek:


oi muppet stop distracting him, irish mike had stripped down his fender and fitted an isuzu in the number of pages going on here and not even a spanner turned. ;):D

What? Don't tell me a bit of toyota bashing and discussions of bad postage service are less interesting than a complete engine swap :p

[OffTrack]

What? Don't tell me a bit of toyota bashing and discussions of bad postage service are less interesting than a complete engine swap :p

I suspect Yorkie is a closet Toynisibishi lover. :twisted:

This is what lead to getting bogged. 1:30am and the tent was floating. "It never rains much up here...."
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/294.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8584515284/)

Just after embarking on the walk out... Didn't look quite as cheery by 3pm the next day.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/295.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8583422017/)

To be fair the spot we got bogged was under about 5cm of water the previous day. This was taken the next day when the ground had dried out. Mallee sand and copious amounts of water = quicksand

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/296.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8584470848/)

One of the guys that helped rescue us turned out to be a good friend of a friend from work. Took two toyota utes chained together to pull the Prado out.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/297.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8584486732/)

Anyway this event was what lead to me becoming a Landrover owner, and is thus the direct antecedent for the current head change. :D

The Prado didn't have any kind of tool kit and no means I could find of changing a tyre so it was apparent that it wasn't safe to rent a 4wd if you planned venturing outside the range of Roadside Assist.

This is my "workshop" space at home:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/298.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8584558138/)

Not exactly conducive to stripping down the head and leaving the engine in bits until the rest of the parts arrive.

cheers
Paul

[Judo]

I need to stop complaining about my secure off street car port then? ;)

[Disco Muppet]

I need to stop complaining about my secure off street car port then? ;)

Or my twin sheltered carport in a country village? :D
Bar looks good Paul :cool:

[OffTrack]

Despite asking twice for the order to be cancelled the UK supplier shipped on Monday UK time. Bits are currently showing as having arrived in Dibai, but are most likely in transit to Aus. I reckon it's 50-50 that get them having dealt with OOPS in the past.

As a backup I've order the key parts from British car components, and I'll be able to collect today. I'd been keen to get the locking pins, and have found that the laser tool 4052 set is readily available for about $22 inc gst and Graeme can get over night. I'm going to get a RMA on anything I don't need from the uk order as its all small stuff and won't cost too much to post back.

The next hitch is the company I ordered e14 and torque gauge from promised I would have the tools by Wednesday. The order is still showing as being prepared, as it was on Monday.

This whole bs of online stores listing their suppliers entire catalog but giving no indication if they can actually deliver ****s me off big time. One mob in Sydney promise everything is in stock and ships same day. I've tried calling the contact number 4-5 times and every time it rings out. Their live chat always shows "unavailable". Doesn't inspire much confidence really.

I think the lesson learnt is if you have any sort of deadline buying over the counter is the only way to go.

Cheers
Paul

[Yorkie]

not sure who your using in sydney but karcraft are very good, always look after me for parts.
what is that front bar you have, uk sourced?.

[OffTrack]

Looks like i will get the tools tomorrow. The supplier has promised they be in today. Turns out the company is based in Northcote so only 5-10 km from home. One of their drivers will drop the tools off to me at work tomorrow. Can't really complain about that.

It's all been a cutting a bit fine for my liking but l should be set to go first thing Friday. :)

[OffTrack]

not sure who your using in sydney but karcraft are very good, always look after me for parts.
what is that front bar you have, uk sourced?.

Parts aren't a big issue. Graeme at British Car Components will have the bits I consider 100% essential ready today. I gave him the list yesterday afternoon. I hindsight it would have been cheaper and faster to buy the bits that didn't come in the turner kits from him in the first place!

The issue has been tool suppliers not parts. The mob I ordered the E14 socket from appear to have been held up by their suppliers and should come through with goods. Now I know they are local I'm more inclined to use them again providing I have time.

The bar is a tjm type 15 that has had the hoops amputated. This was done by the PO, but tjm sell this setup in the US .

[Judo]

What is an E14?

[Disco Muppet]

What is an E14?

Torx head socket piece AFAIK.

[OffTrack]

Torx head socket piece AFAIK.

External Torx is a socket which fits a torx shaped bolt head. You can get away with a normal socket but the contact area is reduced and you risk damaging the bolt head. There are a surprising number of them (torx head bolts that is) on the D2.

I did a quick google and found these pics of a torx bolt and socket to illustrate:

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5269/img0842en.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/03/169.jpg

The head bolts are e14 and require a fair bit of force to torque up correctly so for the $12.75 plus postage spend on the socket it's not worth mucking about.

When I have time to wait for a few weeks I usually buy individual sockets from http://bloomertool.com/FemaleTorxSockets.html I have a few of the Elora hex sockets and they are really nicely made.

cheers
Paul

[Disco Muppet]

Figured it would be for the Head bolts :)
Also used on transmission bellhousings in J**ps :D

[OffTrack]

For the record this is what I've picked up to do the head change.

Tools:

1 x E14 1/2" Drive socket (http://www.kokenusa.com/products/model/336)
1 x Teng Tools - Torque Angular Gauge (http://www.tengtools.com.au/torque-angular-gauge.html)
1 x Laser Tools Td5 Timing Pin Set 4052 (http://www.lasertools.co.uk/item.aspx?item=3477)

From Turners:

1 x LDF500160 TD5 Cylinder Head - early

1 x TD5 Cylinder head fitting Kit - early
- includes: head bolts (AMC), head gasket, inlet manifold gasket, exhaust manifold gasket, fuel regulator gasket, rocker cover gasket, injector O rings, 2 steel head locating dowels. injector washers. coolant elbow outlet gasket

1 x LBF500020 Kit cylinder head
- includes 1 x ERR 5369 seal camshaft rear, 5 x ERR 6417 injector washer, 5 x ERR 6616 pad insulation, 1 x ERR 6674 plug, 5 x ERR 7004 injector o ring, 2 x LCL100020 locating dowel (plastic!!), 1 x LDI100030 seal camshaft front, 6 x LYG101510 bolt shaft to head, 5 x MBD100050 bolt

1 x STC 4600 Hylomar 3400 Sealant

From other suppliers:

Parts marked as "and discard" in the RAVE procedures:
1 x ERR6761 - o-ring fuel pressure regulator
1 x ERR6768 - gasket exhaust to turbo
3 x ERR7070 - screw sprocket to camshaft
6 x ADU6847L - copper washer - turbo oil feed/alternator oil feed (really only need 4)
2 x LRJ100000 - gasket centrifuge oil drain
1 x PYF100680 - Sealing washer coolant drain.
1 x LXI100000 - sealing washer timing chain tensioner
1 x PNT100030 - Turbo oil drain gasket

Parts being replaced "while I'm at it".
1 x PCH000360 - Radiator to Expansion tank bleed hose (snapped while trying to replace leaking hose).
1 x PCD000070 - Expansion tank pressure cap
1 x JHB000060 - inlet pipe to Matrix
1 x JHB100460 - matrix to fuel cooler

I'll also take the opportunity to fit the JE Engineering exhaust studs I bought last year. Alex Threlfall's blog has a couple of pics of the studs and spacers: TD5 Exhaust Manifold Change | Alex Threlfall's Blog (http://alex.threlfall.me.uk/?p=19)

While the head is off I'll repair the threads for the centrifugal filter cover and clean the intake manifold.

The package from the UK left Dubai about 2 hours ago, so should land in Aus in the very early hours of Thursday morning. Whether it makes it into my hands by COB remains to be seen.

cheers
Paul

[OffTrack]

Figured it would be for the Head bolts :)
Also used on transmission bellhousings in J**ps :D

Watch it. I'll have to give you warning for dodging the swear filter :D

[Yorkie]

7 pages yet and still no spanner turned? ;) :D

out of interest have you done something like this before? the write ups make it all look so easy but in practise...?

[Judo]

the write ups make it all look so easy but in practise...?

:lol2:

The story of my life. Pretty much everything I do to my Landy is the first time I've done it. Never ceases to amaze me how different it turns out to be in practice. :D

[OffTrack]

7 pages yet and still no spanner turned? ;) :D

out of interest have you done something like this before? the write ups make it all look so easy but in practise...?

Yorkie,

I'm doing the head change when I have all the parts/tools I need and the available time, which will be on Friday. I'm not doing it to satisfy the voyeuristic desires of forum members who get their jollies looking at "rebuild porn". :wasntme:

Yes, I have rebuilt several motors in the past, and my Dad who will be around to assist if required has something like 65 years of experience in vehicle restoration and engine building. I think we should be able to manage, but thank you for your concern.

cheers
Paul

[Yorkie]

just pulling ya leg. :D
only reason i asked about previous experience was more for any ideas i might have of doing simalar myself in the future. as judo said half the time something simple ends up with all four wheels of the car and the dash removed when all that was required as a fuse change. :angel:

good luck with it. :)

[OffTrack]

just pulling ya leg. :D
only reason i asked about previous experience was more for any ideas i might have of doing simalar myself in the future. as judo said half the time something simple ends up with all four wheels of the car and the dash removed when all that was required as a fuse change. :angel:

good luck with it. :)

Thanks. It's been extremely frustrating trying to get everything organised so I can actually change the head. Believe me, I would have been a lot happier if everything was done last weekend and I could post up pics of a job done. Add to that my partner had two weeks off so we could go away for 11 days, and is sulky because we only did about half the trip we had planned.

I haven't done a build for quite a few years but it looks to be pretty manageable. Obviously it's in a whole different league to the a-series engines i've worked on in the past but the main thing is being methodical about it.

One thing I found early on with the D2 is that you are usually better off following the procedures in RAVE to the letter. Perhaps if you've done a job a dozen times and are familiar with the procedure, you know where to cut corners and save time. Doing a job for the first time I don't know if it's worth it. I've found the short cuts offered up on the forum often trade undoing a few bolts to move a component out of the way for spanner tossing frustration as you try to contort your arms around the component you didn't remove. I''l leave that lark to others.

cheers
Paul

[OffTrack]

Yorkie,

I've actually put a spanner to the d2 now, so you can stop counting pages. ;)

Just basic prep for tomorrow - I've pulled out the ARB battery tray, and removed the Turbo heat shield just to save a bit of messing around. I also replaced the bleed hose and expansion tank cap. It's amazing how much more flexible the new bleed hose is than the brittle thing that came of.

I'm about as equipped as I'm going to be. Finally got hold of the e14 socket at 3.30pm this afternoon.

cheers
Paul

[Toppa]

Good luck mate, hope all goes to plan. If I was around this weekend, I would have loved to have a sticky beak at the work in progress but alas, ill have to just read your tutorial :D

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk 2

[Judo]

Good luck mate, hope all goes to plan. If I was around this weekend, I would have loved to have a sticky beak at the work in progress but alas, ill have to just read your tutorial :D

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk 2
That's a shame... You know he's only doing it to keep us sticky beaks happy. ;)

I was thinking of dropping by with a deck chair and beer. Maybe give a cheer if I see a spanner turned. Fireworks go off when a head bolt hits correct torque + angle.

[OffTrack]

Yeah yeah. No pics, but am about to lift the head once I've had something to eat.

Nothing too bad so far. Inlet and exhaust manifolds are off.

[OffTrack]

Judging by the rusty red looking residue on no1 piston the gasket has gone there. The front dowel was snapped in half and brittle and the rear dowel had the classic head shuffle z shape.

[OffTrack]

The block deck is pretty much cleaned up, but took an hour or so to get into a reasonable state.

The old head is stripped apart from the two inlet studs, and I've started cleaning the bits that are going onto the new head.

This is the offending cylinder as far as I can tell. Pic was taken just after i lifted the head. No 5 is looking a bit iffy too but no pics.

58308

[OffTrack]

No pics yet. I've taken a few but the camera is still at the parents place, and i need to head back out to Doncaster tomorrow to finish.

Unfortunately no fireworks when the final bolt received the stage 5 45 degree turn. The torque down is a bit of a workout, and I would have struggled without an extra pair of hands.

I had a bit of a wtf moment when I was adjusting the injectors - set the clearance but then noticed the huge amount of play when on the back on the lobe. After a bit of a chat with Dad it clicked that the hydraulic lash adjusters will take up the lash! (NOTE: With a bit of thought it's actually the fuel rail pressure that takes up the slack in the injector not the lash adjusters)

Nothing is particularly difficult but everything seems to take time to do. Talking to JustinC tonight it seems that it's pretty normal for a first time to be a bit time consuming.

Stuff like a previous mechanic covering the back of the FPR with some kind of blue sealant that took ages to clean off. I also had a go at cleaning the inlet manifold. The only thing that seemed to do anything even remotely useful as acetone. That got off some of the gunk, but there was only a thinnish layer anyway. It got to the point where I couldn't really see the point doing it by hand. Messy and nasty stuff best left to someone with a cleaning tank.

Couple of things that would have been nice:
-- 8mm Allen socket for the fixed timing guide screw;
-- A tool to push on the injector washers. In the end I used a small ring spanner to get a reasonably even push. The sides of the injector tip need to be really clean. Even cleaned to shiny the washers are a close fit on the tip. I'm not sure how you'd have a washer fall off as some tutorials suggest you need to watch out for!?!

I've had pretty much all the parts I needed. I'd mistakenly assumed the carrier bolts came with the new head so had to reuse the old ones. That's one to look out for.

The layer of sealant on the carrier ends up pretty thin once it is rolled. A film is an apt description - even so you end up with a little bit of ooze out of the joint. I used a small foam paint roller which wasn't really the best tool for the job. A hard roller - possible a wallpaper seam roller - would have been ideal. I did have one of these to roll epoxy into layups for vacuum bagging but couldn't locate it in all the junk.

Anyway I'll be able to finish of tomorrow. It's mainly just hooking stuff up, reinstalling the exhaust manifold, installing helicoil threads in the centrifugal filter housing, replacing boost hoses (supercheapauto 4mm hose turns to jelly when faced with heat, pressure and oil), do an oil change, refill coolant. Not too much really.

Cheers
Paul

[OffTrack]

All together and running, but it looks like I'll have to pull the injectors and redo the injector washers as the engine is displaying the classic signs of fuel leaking past the washers. bugger. I have a "spare" set of AMC washers which I didn't use as I had LR washers and o-rings. Looks like they will get a run after all.

I've had a couple of issues. I followed the purge instructions and had a very hard time starting the engine - it would chug and blow smoke with full throttle but not start or run. In the end I worked out that the engine had probably flooded. Starting with no throttle input solved the issue very quickly.

The second issue was that the FPR started ****ing fuel down the side of the block. This mean I had to undo the FPR in situ then check and clean the gasket, and refit. This solved the issue. For some reason the gasket was crushed on one side but not the other. Possibly missed fully tightening the lower bolt, but when I checked the torque it seemed ok. Dunno!

On the positive side, I did get the thread coils installed for both the centrifugal filter cover bolts, the JE Engineering exhaust studs are on and the LR boost hoses are fitted.

Ok, some pics. I didn't really have that much time to stop and take photos, so this is the lot!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1522.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8608041529/)
Injectors out, o-rings and washers off and ready to clean the tips.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1523.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8609149146/)
AMC head from the "bottom"


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1524.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8608042525/)


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1525.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8608043015/)
Rocker shaft on, JE Engineering exhaust studs installed.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1526.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8608044061/)
Head finally installed, and torqued down. Inlet manifold on. Traces of blood staining on the head near the air-con compressor...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1527.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8609150666/)
Cam cover gasket ready for installation. The grommet and spacers push through from the top side of the cover into the gasket and do a great job of holding the gasket in place.

cheers
Paul

[OffTrack]

Hmmm. I might hold off on the washers until I have a clear pattern of misbehaviour. Just went to pick up torque wrench and the injector washers and o-rings from storage and the D2 started up perfectly with no real sign of smoke or roughness.

Earlier this afternoon I'd given the injectors a light tap with a drift and hammer on the section of the body where they are clamped to make sure they were seated, and then torque the retaining bolts again, and redid the bump adjustment. All except one injector needed a bit of extra pulling down to make the required torque. This hadn't seemed to make any difference, but now I'm not so sure. I'll check again tomorrow before I commit to pulling out the injectors again.

cheers
Paul

[goingbush]

The second issue was that the FPR started ****ing fuel down the side of the block. This mean I had to undo the FPR in situ then check and clean the gasket, and refit. This solved the issue. For some reason the gasket was crushed on one side but not the other. Possibly missed fully tightening the lower bolt, but when I checked the torque it seemed ok. Dunno!



have done same, think you torqued the rear bottom manifold bolt by mistake, its next to the bottom FPR bolt and QED

[OffTrack]

Unfortunately I installed the FPR on the bench before I did the intake manifold so I can't use that excuse!

So last night I had a bit of a moment which is detailed here:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/172048-td5-non-rhythmic-knock-topend.html

The real killer was the poor starting behaviour. When I installed the injectors they didn't seem to seat down fully, and as mention a couple of posts up I had a go at reseating them without any change in behaviour.

As I'd taken the day off to get to the bottom of the knock, and solved that without too much drama, I bit the bullet and decided to pull the injectors and check the washers were seating. Having already done the injectors once, it was a pretty simple task to pull the rocker shaft assembly and the injectors again. A quick trip to the local industrial supplier for a 6mm allen key and a nice new Stanley flat bladed screw driver (had used my dad's "once was a screwdriver" first time round which may have contributed to lack of adjustment?) and then a bit of wait for the rain to hold off, and a few hours work and I've now got the washers replaced with the AMC items supplied with the head. The finish on the AMC washers is nowhere near as nice as the LR jobs and they are slightly looser fit too.

This time around the injectors seated with a firm push and a satisfying clunk. Once the rocker shaft was back on and I began adjusting the bump setting on the injectors I knew that things were looking much better. On the first install the adjuster screws were wound almost all the way out when the injectors bottomed out, this time around they were in the bottom half of the adjustment range before the injectors bottomed out.

Anyway redoing the injectors has transformed the way the engine starts. I suspect for what ever reason the injectors were using substantially less than full travel which might account for the problems I was having.

I'm almost ready to call "job done", touch wood :angel:

cheers
Paul


Add: Urban Panzers tip on pumping the throttle 5-10 times to bleed the fuel system (can't say how many times exactly I just kept pushing until the engine light started flashing) is a ripper. My preferred method has been repeatedly cycling the ignition to run the pump. The repeated throttle press with the ignition switched to II triggers a 5 minute cycle of repeated pump runs. Much easier and saves faffing with the ignition every 30 seconds or so.

[Disco Muppet]

I'm almost ready to call "job done", touch fake delaminated wood :angel:


Fixed it for you :D
Well done, as usual you've done a top job.
Want to come and do mine? :angel:
Cheers
Muppet

[OffTrack]

Fixed it for you :D
Well done, as usual you've done a top job.
Want to come and do mine? :angel:
Cheers
Muppet

Thanks Muppet, I think I'll pass TBH although Justin has said the first one is the slowest :angel: I think this was a victory of persistence rather than mechanicing skills.

BTW No fake delaminated wood on mine, though I notice yours is still resplendent in the stuff. I wasn't going to mention that once you'd had the lever and surround and switch panel off it would have been super easy to remove the stick on "wood". ;)

Mine got a bit of TLC last year. Behold the lack of delimitation:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1446.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8611861143/)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1447.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8612968970/)

The door trims were a bit over the top, but still kinda cool in a factory bling sort of way.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/150.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/58333978@N04/8612969220/)

cheers
Paul

[Disco Muppet]

Hey, you've got more than I do! No fair! :D
I did try to pry the base bit off but there's no way it's coming off without a bit of damage, so I'll wait until I have a replacement, one piece panel that incorporates the window switches as well.
Thankfully mine isn't delaminated, it just needs a bit of a polish which I'm still trying to work out the best method of.
After my efforts with the roof panel I'll need to clean it all again as there's lots of little plastic shavings scattered about.
Never ends :p
Cheers
Muppet

[OffTrack]

Unfortunately I installed the FPR on the bench before I did the intake manifold so I can't use that excuse!


FPR leak appears to be down to the use of an incorrect gasket which came with the fitting kit. The gasket would have been ok if the original regulator was fitted, but it's obviously been replaced at some point.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=1887076