First Drive of Defender + Child seats

[gingz]

Hi guys,

As the title suggests I had a test drive this afternoon of a 110 and loved it...

but SWMBO was not to impressed when the sales lady said that there was no child restraints, the sales lady quickly started speaking about aftermarket parts for restraining child seat when she saw the look on my wife's face....

needless to say when we got back the wife said no way on buying a 110....

I had a quick look at Sepo and Jap 4wd and they are making me sick...

I had a look on here and people were speaking about a bar of some type that can be fitted to the 110 for restraining child seat, but when I look at the date the post was made they were all from 2005 and 2006 and was wondering if this part was still available and legal.

Cheers in advance

Gingz

[Hoges]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/good-oil/57559-child-restraint-anchor-points-kid-baby-seats-capsule-booster-crab-creb-bar.html

[Grumbles]

I would be saying to the sales lady that unless it comes with legally fitted and warranted child restraints then it is no deal. Where she gets them from is up to her.

[clubagreenie]

I buy cars like this.

I tell them what I want, what will be fitted and how much I'm paying. Follwed by if they want the sale and therefore their commission thats the deal.

I'll leave my details on the list and leave.give it a week and call back, if they say it's not enough just tell them you've got two other interstate dealers willing to play.

Never bought a car for less that 10K off retail, paid for rego and ins or any extras.

[crash]

As the other two have said - insist on the child restraints or no deal.
Is the 110 classified as a comercial vehicle still? If it is then by law child restraints are not mandatory like they are in passenger vehicles. Some dual cab utes also do not come with the restraints.

[BilboBoggles]

You probably won't be buying a defender then... The sales people don't really care about selling them - most are pre sold before they arrive, the sales guys are just there to handle the paperwork.

It's unlikely you'll get a dealer to fit the restraint points. Going back a few years (3-4) they would have, but now there are a number of insurance issues, and many of the dealers will not touch fitting these points or organising them. (This is Victoria I'm talking about). Some of the independents will touch them but charge a huge amount for the insurance, for example I was quoted $65 for one point, but an additional $400 for insurance coverage, so total was nearly $500 for one point. (Dec 2012). My last Defender had them fitted for $180 for Three, in 2008. As of January that last place no longer do restraint points.

I have found a local fitting (VICTORIA) station who will fit restraint points into the back of the Defender without a crab bar, they are a registered restraint point fitter, and would do the three for $200. So might be worth ringing around the list of approved fitting stations and dropping in to see what can be done.

In the end I decided not to fit retraint points, instead I'm using booster seats that do not require a tether.

It's kind of ridiculous that the insurance aspects is driving this rather than the real safety concerns. The tether points when used for a booster are only there for when you do not have a child in the seat - to keep the unsecured booster in place to avoid damaging other occupants. The restraint points do not play any role in an accident when the child is actually in the seat. The seat belt is what is doing the restraining. So that's why if you have a foam booster you do not need tether points, anything less than 2kg is considered a non lethal projectile. So I'm perfectly happy with my tether points in my older Defenders that are in the floor in the back.

[Leyland1980]

Are you looking at a wagon or a double cab? If its a double cab then it is very easy and cheap ($200-300 to have a restraint made and installed and ~$250 for engineers inspection).

If its a wagon then you are probably looking at a crab bar (>$500 + installation $????? + inspection) and will have to drill holes and loose the versatility of collapsing the rear seats.

PM me if you want details of the double cab option.

As has been said in an earlier post a lot of child seats don't need the additional anchor point, I only had to fit them as I was importing.

[muddy]

Just purchased a new 110 station wagon and had the safety bar installed and plated for under $500.
The Grandkids have had a capstual and seat attached with no problems .
It can be removed when not in use

[Intrepid]

I went through this process... See here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/161460-defender-crab-bar-installation.html

No big deal unless the install compromises your 'plans' for the rear end...

Joshua.

[gingz]

Ok cheers guys,

HAs anyone in WA had them fitted lately, if so where did you get it installed?

Cheers

[frantic]

In your case there are 2 options: a crab bar that has 3 points ,runs horizontal just below window height behind the middle row( my crab cost 390 from memory) OR as I saw on a svx he actually had the bolts engineered into the back of the seats like "normal" wagons but that cost him a fair bit more( about $1k he said) but looked far far better and meant it was a 30 sec job to lower the seats for long loads rather than the 10-15 min with the bar.

[gingz]

Cheers people,

TL engineering will do it for $660 with engineering plate.

[greenhornet]

I am really interested in this topic as the option we have been given in Sydney is to rebuild the rear seats and install the anchor point in the seat back. 2 seats with engineers certificate...$1800.
I am not saying the job is not worth the money, I like the fact that it is built into the seat rather than a CRAB bar, but I just can't afford it at the minute...happy to post up photos when I save the cash, but if anyone has recently been offered a different option I would be interested in that too..
Cheers
Gav

[Samblers]

Cheers people,

TL engineering will do it for $660 with engineering plate.

gingz, dont be put off. I have the TL Engineering CRAB bar in my 2010 110 if you and your wife want to take a look. The kids will LOVE a defender :)

[gingz]

gingz, dont be put off. I have the TL Engineering CRAB bar in my 2010 110 if you and your wife want to take a look. The kids will LOVE a defender :)

Cheers Samblers, where about are you in perf??

Got my wife in to my line of thinking about 110...its my bloody car not hers and sorry SWMBO but am not driving a bloody Patrol. Haha

So I should soon be any owner of a 110

[Samblers]

Good onya

I'm in Shenton Park.

Went through the same process... looked at all the other 4WD's but the thought of owning them made feel slightly ill :angel:

[Babs]

I am really interested in this topic as the option we have been given in Sydney is to rebuild the rear seats and install the anchor point in the seat back. 2 seats with engineers certificate...$1800.
I am not saying the job is not worth the money, I like the fact that it is built into the seat rather than a CRAB bar, but I just can't afford it at the minute...happy to post up photos when I save the cash, but if anyone has recently been offered a different option I would be interested in that too..
Cheers
Gav

see my next post.

[Babs]

This wont help much if your in WA, but the Sydney guys will benefit from this.

Call 1300 527 227 Comptune Engineering.
Unit 4/5-7 Yarmouth Place
Narellan NSW 2567

Ask for Shayne.

They fitted 2 restraints to the back of the seats looks like factory (forget those stupid crab bars and all the other crap people are fitting) The rear seat with the middle lap sash seat belt is reinforced to hold an adult, they attach the points to the reinforced bar, end product is you have child restraint anchor points fitted to the back of seat just like factory would do if they came with them.

Big bonus is you have no bars in the way especially if you have the 7 seat option.

Comptune Engineering will supply and fit also give you an Engineering Certificate all for $900-$950.

Anything over the 1K mark is highway robbery. Don't pay for an installation then the same amount for a cert. These guys are the engineers they also do the fitting, worth calling them.

For the record I am not affiliated with Comptune in any way, just extremely happy with the outcome of the service, considering some of the ludicrous options and pricing other companies had to offer.

Good luck :D

[greenhornet]

Hi Guys
Just thought I would update this thread.
We took forum advice and went to Comptune Engineering.(Sydney)
Really great guys to deal with.
Their workshop is opposite a LR dealership so they have this conversion down to a fine art.
x3 anchor points installed with engineers certificate.
This took them about 6 hours and cost us $900.
Best deal we could find.
Thanks for the advice.

[Babs]

Hear hear.


I can vouch for them as well. Had two put in my Deefer.

Hey Greenhornet what seat covers are they and what's the $ value?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[greenhornet]

Hi Babs
Glad you had a good experience with them too.
In the rear we have the Michelle Sacs seat covers.
We are very pleased with them for fit and wear.
They cost about $550 and I think that is good value.
Cheers
Gav

[apple_bob]

Does anyone of an engineering company in Melbourne who would install that option into my 130 rear seats?
Cheers Jeff

[Pickles2]

How would this issue be resolved in a new Puma 90?
Cheers, Pickles.

[rijidij]

..........needless to say when we got back the wife said no way on buying a 110....

I had a quick look at Sepo and Jap 4wd and they are making me sick....................

Sounds like you better sort out the restraint issue pretty quick, before the Missus sets her sights on a Jeep, or dare I say it.................a dual cab Hilux :eek: :D

[Spencer72]

Green hornet. What is the v bar behind the seat for? Im from WA and still looking at other options beside the CRAB bar

[greenhornet]

Green hornet. What is the v bar behind the seat for? Im from WA and still looking at other options beside the CRAB bar

Hi spencer72
The V bar is part of the bracing for the vertical sides I have made for the back of the defender. Because I put x2, 20lt jerry cans (water or diesel) on the outside of the vertices it wanted something on the inside to brace it.
It has nothing to do with the anchor points.
The in-seat options are working very well.
Cheers
Gav

[Spencer72]

Cheers Green Hornet

[fitchaj]

Does anybody have any ideas where I might get some restraints put into my 2009 D130 in Cairns region?

[towe0609]

Does anyone of an engineering company in Melbourne who would install that option into my 130 rear seats?
Cheers Jeff

This (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=1419259#post1419256)post might help Jeff

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Hi Guys
We took forum advice and went to Comptune Engineering.(Sydney)
Really great guys to deal with.
Their workshop is opposite a LR dealership so they have this conversion down to a fine art.
x3 anchor points installed with engineers certificate.
This took them about 6 hours and cost us $900.
Best deal we could find.

Thanks folks - I'm about to need a set of these :)

I can't see this group on the RMS list of authorised fitters ( Authorised restraint fitting stations < Child restraints < Children < Staying safe < NSW Centre for Road Safety (http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/index.cgi?action=authrestraintfitting.form) ) - does anyone who has used them know who signed the engineering certificate?

Or can an engineer certify thier own work for this even if they are not on the RMS list? I'm confused... :eek::confused:

[Hannah110]

Does anybody have any ideas where I might get some restraints put into my 2009 D130 in Cairns region?
If your still stuck trying to find someone in cairns to do child restraints talk to David at Tony Ireland Land Rover in Townsville for the installer. He installs and provides mod plate and forms for dept transport.

[greenhornet]

Thanks folks - I'm about to need a set of these :)

I can't see this group on the RMS list of authorised fitters ( Authorised restraint fitting stations < Child restraints < Children < Staying safe < NSW Centre for Road Safety (http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/index.cgi?action=authrestraintfitting.form) ) - does anyone who has used them know who signed the engineering certificate?

Or can an engineer certify thier own work for this even if they are not on the RMS list? I'm confused... :eek::confused:

Hi featherweight
They provide their own certificate and inform the RTA of the modification. The RTA then note the modification on your registration.
Congrats on impending parenthood.
Greenhornet

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Hi featherweight
They provide their own certificate and inform the RTA of the modification. The RTA then note the modification on your registration.
Congrats on impending parenthood.
Greenhornet

Thanks Hornet.

Re parenthood - The child I already have, it's the Defender that will be new... but I guess that's a different kind of parenthood! :D

I'm in the process of ringing around a few places to compare and contrast options / pricing and will post back to add to the knowledge bank.

[muddys1]

Got mine done at ''seatbelt solutions" in welshpool, that was for a double cab though nearly 4years ago.

[Southern Pom]

Before I purchased my Defender did some research on this as need to fit child seats into the 110. Lots of mentions of CRAB bars that fit behind the seats however even the salesmen I spoke to admitted these took up loads of leg room for anyone sitting in the 2 rear seats of a 7 seater. :(

Found a post (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/171407-first-drive-defender-child-seats-2.html) that mentioned Comptune Engineering in NSW.
Booked up and just had fitted today 3 anchor points that fit on the back of the seats (just like in the photos on the above mentioned post). The engineers at Comptune strengthen the seats at not cost to comfort or functionality. Really good job and there is a Land Rover dealer opposite them that reckons they worked with Comptune to come up with a solution to this problem. Really recommend them even though a bit out of Sydney (they are in Narellan) - very friendly service, excellent job and no loss of leg room. :D

NB when I spoke to them and the Land Rover dealer prior to booking in they did say they haven't worked out a similar solution of the rear fold down seats as they are not locked in as well as the middle row (so this solution won't work for all the seats in a 110 nor the rear seats in a 90).

[EastFreo]

Does anyone know if you can get seats retrospectively fitted with a child restraint anchor in Perth?

Thanks to people pointing out where to get a crab bar installed but I'd prefer to keep as much leg room as possible in the 3rd row of seats.

I am intending to order a 2015 Defender - have asked the dealer if I can get something factory fitted but I am not holding my breath.

[JLaw]

Does anyone know if you can get seats retrospectively fitted with a child restraint anchor in Perth?

Thanks to people pointing out where to get a crab bar installed but I'd prefer to keep as much leg room as possible in the 3rd row of seats.

I am intending to order a 2015 Defender - have asked the dealer if I can get something factory fitted but I am not holding my breath.
I am in the same boat, does anyone know where i can get these seat anchors fitted in Perth.
I have a 2012 5 seat wagon and a brand new grand daughter, I have contacted TL engineering who do not do the anchors in the seats.

[rutmutt]

Hi Guys
Just thought I would update this thread.
We took forum advice and went to Comptune Engineering.(Sydney)
Really great guys to deal with.
Their workshop is opposite a LR dealership so they have this conversion down to a fine art.
x3 anchor points installed with engineers certificate.
This took them about 6 hours and cost us $900.
Best deal we could find.
Thanks for the advice.

Just another update on Comptune.
As of Oct 2014, to fit 3 child restraints to a 2013 Defender it is now $1095. Mine are being done in a few weeks.

[cinders]

I'm not being smart here but I made my own, I'm not an engineer but I know what's strong and what's not.
I used 50X6 flat bar with three anchor points.
First I measured the distance between the rear wheel arches where the seat belt mounts are. I then cut two pieces of 50X6, drilled three holes where I wanted my anchor points to be in one of them. I then had to make sure the nuts for the anchor points had clearance so I welded four 50X25 packers to the 50X6. Two went where the seatbelt bolts went and two where the body mounts are. I then got the other piece of flat bar, placed the first one on top and drilled four holes through both pieces of flat. Gave it a bit of kill rust paint cos we know how dry these cars can be.
Now with the help of a mate, I slid the one piece of flat underneath the body and with longer bolts we bolted it all together with nylocks.
Cost for me was a few dollars for the bolts.
I hope I never have to test it though.
I have to admit I didn't do any research into existing ones but I saw my mates crab bar and thought bugger that.
Cheers

[Pickles2]

Is there anyone in Vic, that could do the front passenger seat of a 90?
I also have a 1.5 y.o. Grandson, who ain't gonna be able to ride in it, unless I can find something.
One of the first words he learned was "car",...his Dad's into cars too, so the little fella's definitely going to be interested.
Pickles.

[EastFreo]

In my 110 I have decided to simply use the third row seats as the anchor point.

I am working on the principle that if the third row seats are secured enough to meet safety standards they should surely be sufficient for the child seat restraining anchor.

[FeatherWeightDriver]

In my 110 I have decided to simply use the third row seats as the anchor point.

I am working on the principle that if the third row seats are secured enough to meet safety standards they should surely be sufficient for the child seat restraining anchor.

Strong enough - almost certainly.

Legal - definitely not, but don't take that as me saying you should not do it ;)

Once you move to a non-tethered booster seat you will also find that door side seats have the top seat belt mount sitting forward of the back of the seat, so anyone sitting there can move forward a bit before taking up the slack on the seat belt. The angle of the seat also makes sleeping difficult, and I had to put a pillow in behind the bottom of the booster seat to get more lean on it.

For kids in a booster seat the safest seat is the middle one due to the location of the seat belts, but don't plan on seeing anything out the back.

[Samblers]

For kids in a booster seat the safest seat is the middle one due to the location of the seat belts, but don't plan on seeing anything out the back.

The location of the second row seat belts is a PITA for booster-seated kids hey. I'd put my booster seated kid in the middle but it wont fit with another child-seat for kid 2 also...

that and the kids are more likely to lark around in the back!

[FeatherWeightDriver]

I saw a defender with 3 (tethered) child seats across the back, so I guess it is possible.

3 kids next to each other would be carnage, but at least a defender is loud enough to be able to ignore them for longer when world war three breaks out in the second row... ;):angel: