Skimming the brake discs on a RRS

[streaky]

Has anyone done this? My dealer told me that they just replace them...it's seems a tad extravagant doesn't it?

My Sport is on 80,000km and just had it's third set of discs fitted....the dealer told me this is quite normal and that I'd done well to get 40k out of a set...under harder use they only see 25,000km!

[Graeme]

Many years ago I had some RRC discs machined but had to go back for another attempt because they caused vibrations. However after the 2nd attempt they were past their limit so had to get new ones anyway.

[Geedublya]

The cost of new discs (from an independent) is so little that it is hardly worth skimming old ones.
I would be checking with the dealer as to why they are replacing them also. Are the discs approaching the wear limit? or are they scored?

It may be that they are approaching the wear limit and the dealer is ensuring that they don't pass the limit before the next service. In my experience dealers can be conservative in their estimations and replace parts (especially brakes) before it is required.

[justinc]

As above.

The disc rotors on ALL RRS and D3/4 are sacrificial to a large degree, if you USE the brakes, the rotors wear very quickly too. In particular it is very likely they will be below min thickness before the next set wear out.

I really try to replace these rather than machine them, they aren't very exxy at all. Even the Brembo discs aren't all that bad in $$$

JC

[ADMIRAL]

Brake specialists are looking to take a mm off each side when machining rotors. There are not too many rotors on modern vehicles that have enough thickness to allow this. In fact some of the higher performance brake packages on FPV and HSV models, have only 3mm from new to scrap. With most pads now having a metal based compound, the rotor wear is such, that new rotors are the go, and has already been stated, they are quite cheap now.

[TDV6]

As previous responders have said new rotors are cheep, mine are drilled and slotted for $120 each. see brake pad thread.

Ryall

[Bigbjorn]

I machine my drums and rotors myself. Have done so for many years. I have made a few mandrels at different times to get them up between centres and get into them with a tungsten carbide tool. This is first year apprentice machinist work.

[Meccles]

The two RRS TDV8 I have owned had no issues wrt to brakes/rotors at 50K. Maybe I don't drive hard enough:) Mate of mine who drives pretty hard had 2007 TDV8 he has just sold at 100K. Dealer told him that brakes needed replacing, so he went and got new pads/rotors etc front and rear from independant, which was way cheaper than dealer quote. However, when car went in for its roadworthy, they advised that there was nothing wrong with the brakes, and there was still plenty of pad and disc remaining. So all new bits are still sitting in boxes with new owner. I think the dealers tend to be very cautious, plus make big $$$ on changing these items.

[Bigbjorn]

I am pleased I don't take my vehicles for repair to someone who regards $120 rotors as "cheap". I am of a generation that regarded drums and discs as "life of the vehicle" items, like radiators and thermostats, and resent having to replace them. These items on our new improved super you beaut modern vehicles need to be replaced regularly. Progress?

[bee utey]

I am pleased I don't take my vehicles for repair to someone who regards $120 rotors as "cheap". I am of a generation that regarded drums and discs as "life of the vehicle" items, like radiators and thermostats, and resent having to replace them. These items on our new improved super you beaut modern vehicles need to be replaced regularly. Progress?

In a nutshell, it depends on the brake linings. Good old fashioned asbestos linings made rotors last almost forever. Modern high performance linings however are hell on rotors with two sets of pads to one replacement rotor being common. Most of the standard disc rotors I have replaced on common passenger cars lately cost as little as $45 each and take only minutes to change.

You buy a high performance vehicle and maintain it accordingly. You can't even buy soft linings for some vehicles on the market as they would fade dangerously for all those modern drivers that can't use the gears to slow down. Way it goes. Would you be tempted to drive a RRS as slowly and carefully as a 4 cylinder series?

[Bigbjorn]

I was at GM-H when the change to front disc brakes as standard equipment was made during the production life of the HQ. V8's, Premier/Brougham/Statesman had discs as standard and 6 cylinder Belmont/Kingswood had drum brakes as standard and discs as an option. The heavy duty drum brake option was withdrawn with the advent of the HQ. Chrysler still had a HD drum option. I don't recall what Ford did. I was the service rep. to the taxi industry for a while. Taxi owners are, to put it mildly, bloody lousy. It was often pointed out to me by owners who kept detailed records of their operating costs that disc brakes were a higher cost per mile than drums. They wanted the heavy duty drum brake option returned to the options list. One owner pointed out that their cabs operated in stop/start city traffic, rarely exceeded 40 mph, and did not need to decelerate from 200 mph at the end of the Mulsanne Straight. They were particularly hostile about the need to replace discs. Drums lasted the life of the vehicle if the linings were not allowed to get so worn as to have metal to metal contact.

I still have most of a roll of woven asbestos lining for use on historic cars. Hard moulded linings don't work well on mechanical brakes.

[Dougal]

A lot of it is how you use your brakes. With high powered, heavy, automatic vehicles the reliance on brakes is far higher than it ever used to be.

My RRC had it's rotors replaced a bit past 300,000km. But those are open road km's, it has a lot of engine braking, a manual gearbox and the drivers weren't hard on brakes.
Point and squirt in a RRS is a completely different game.:angel:

Not to mention, the traction control on these also works the brakes. There was none of that in the good-old-days.

[BigJon]

Nice story Brian, but to what effect? The world has moved on a little since the days of HQ Holdens.

[Bigbjorn]

Nice story Brian, but to what effect? The world has moved on a little since the days of HQ Holdens.

I am bitching about having to replace the front discs on my poxy Falcon ute. Third set in 200,000 k's. Should not have to replace iron discs that are rubbed by softer material. Up to me I would have just machined them smooth and bugger the recommended thickness. I don't like paying to replace things that should not have to be replaced. Pads/linings yes, they are wear items. Drums/discs no. They should not wear out.

[justinc]

I am bitching about having to replace the front discs on my poxy Falcon ute. Third set in 200,000 k's. Should not have to replace iron discs that are rubbed by softer material. Up to me I would have just machined them smooth and bugger the recommended thickness. I don't like paying to replace things that should not have to be replaced. Pads/linings yes, they are wear items. Drums/discs no. They should not wear out.

Therin lies the problem Brian, The later Falcon has and still does have a shocking reputation for brake discs and pad wear. I have to service numerous ED/F, AU etc and find the discs warp horrifically and the pads wear away in 25 to 30,000km quite often. A shocking design. I now use the cheapest set of discs I can get and the best pads I can get and this helps to prevent the steering wheel jumping out of your hand when downhill braking for about 20,000km....

These vehicles are getting worse not better. Designing in a gear ratio that requires the brakes to be applied on almost every descent is a recipe for brake wear, at least in our Lexus when you apply the brakes when descending a hill the 5 speed autotrans is smart enough to downshift and engage the TC lock for you, seemlessly:).

JC

[BigJon]

JC, I won't even consider machining Falcon front rotors. There is just no point considering they warp so badly.
I also always use a torque wrench when tightening the wheel nuts, as a rattle gun can pull the disc out of true (happened to a mates BA XR6T when he had tyres fitted. Near brand new slotted and drilled rotors warped by heavy handed tyre fitters).

[BigJon]

I am bitching about having to replace the front discs on my poxy Falcon ute.

Brake discs are a wear item. They need replacing every now and then.

[justinc]

JC, I won't even consider machining Falcon front rotors. There is just no point considering they warp so badly.
I also always use a torque wrench when tightening the wheel nuts, as a rattle gun can pull the disc out of true (happened to a mates BA XR6T when he had tyres fitted. Near brand new slotted and drilled rotors warped by heavy handed tyre fitters).

Same here, they are a bin job for EVERY pad change, and especially if warped.
Interesting about the wheel nuts, must rememeber that:p I never rattle them up except to the 'light nip' stage as they are toy sized studs, and I have a VERY grunty Wurth rattle gun:o:D
Gee these cars are light duty poorly assembled rubbish ...:p

JC

[Dougal]

Brake discs are a wear item. They need replacing every now and then.

Only if you use them.:angel:

[justinc]

Brake discs are a wear item. They need replacing every TIME

There, I fixed it for you mate....:D

[rovercare]

I am bitching about having to replace the front discs on my poxy Falcon ute. Third set in 200,000 k's. Should not have to replace iron discs that are rubbed by softer material. Up to me I would have just machined them smooth and bugger the recommended thickness. I don't like paying to replace things that should not have to be replaced. Pads/linings yes, they are wear items. Drums/discs no. They should not wear out.

Why is it, that you don't just drive the County, seeing as your always whinind about this 'orrible falcon ute?

[101RRS]

JC - I appreciate you work on these vehicles all the time but your advice is not the case with my own vehicle. First set of pads lasted 70,000km without setting off the wear sensors. Disks were gouge and warp free and only 1/3 worn.

From the experience with my car I would say that rotors should normally last for every second pad change and that is in a car mainly used around town.

The determinant should be actual measurements rather than the generic change rotors with every pad change.

Cheers

Garry

[rovercare]

JC - I appreciate you work on these vehicles all the time but your advice is not the case with my own vehicle. First set of pads lasted 70,000km without setting off the wear sensors. Disks were gouge and warp free and only 1/3 worn.

From the experience with my car I would say that rotors should normally last for every second pad change and that is in a car mainly used around town.

The determinant should be actual measurements rather than the generic change rotors with every pad change.

Cheers

Garry

I think he meant disc rotors replaced every pad change for later falcons;)

[justinc]

JC - I appreciate you work on these vehicles all the time but your advice is not the case with my own vehicle. First set of pads lasted 70,000km without setting off the wear sensors. Disks were gouge and warp free and only 1/3 worn.

From the experience with my car I would say that rotors should normally last for every second pad change and that is in a car mainly used around town.

The determinant should be actual measurements rather than the generic change rotors with every pad change.

Cheers

Garry

Hi Garry,

that's true we do see some last longer than others, but the majority i see are a pad and disc change at less than 50k. at this point it is folly as a repairer to fit new pads to discs in poor condition/approaching minimum thickness as it is mine and the customers neck on the line. discs are cheap, lives and litigation aren't:(

Also having them come back with noisy brakes is a waste of everbodies time and $$, as is a lousy pedal feel and shuddering when hot.

i appreciate not everyones brakes are in this situation, but i have a responsibility as a repairer to avoid issues and maintain safety for the $105/ hour they shell out for me to work on their vehicle. There have been 1 or 2 situations where i haven't had to replace the rotors on rrs and d3, but they are in the extreme minority.

And yes as matt said the above couple of my replies were directed at falcon drivers:D:wasntme:

jc

[101RRS]

I agree - if they need doing then they should be done but many "service centres" recommend work even if they do not need doing. Most "service centres" seem to be more interested in making a buck from their clients rather than doing their servicing jobs - there are exceptions of course.

Garry

[justinc]

I agree - if they need doing then they should be done but many "service centres" recommend work even if they do not need doing. Most "service centres" seem to be more interested in making a buck from their clients rather than doing their servicing jobs - there are exceptions of course.

Garry


correct, but it is interesting that the charges for machining rotors especially if you own your own on car lathe make it more profitable than buying in and replacing them.

there are always the exceptions.

jc

[Plane Fixer]

I went over the council tip weighbridge the other day and with the wife, myself and the car has a full tank of fuel, bullbar and cargo barrier and came up 2.8 tonnes. At 100 kph it is an awful mass to stop. I have a high value of our lives, and the car as well, and brakes and tyres are something I will never skimp on.
The brakes on the D4 are brilliant and I will keep them that way and I am not forgetting I have a heavy lux barge which cost me a lot of hard earned money, and as such I know the cost of keeping it on the road is a bit higher than average.
It certainly stops better than the Patrol I had previously and I am happy to pay the price for the comfort and safety the D4 offers.