defect on a real wheel carrier

[jasonedu]

hi guys,

got hit with a defect notice the other day for a real wheel carrier obscuring the number plate. I have a 130, with an after market carrier. the regulations in the ACT require the plate to be visible from 45 degrees from both sides and it is not.

the Regulations go on to say that you are exempt as long as the "...numberplate is attached in a way that complies as far as practicable..."

to me that seems to say as long as you are doing your best there is not much they can do. I rang them up and they suggested
* because it was an after market carrier the regulation did not apply (the regulations dont mention this)
* attaching the plate to the rear wheel carrier (not very practicable removing the light and plate to change the wheel - plus the expense of getting a bracket made up) or
* to put the plate on my canopy. this is also illegal (above 1.3m) but in their opinion not as bad.

the thing that is peeving me about all this is that "practicable" and what is the best illegal option are subjective and i happen to have a different opinion to the muppet on the phone who hadn't even read the Regulations.

Anyone put up a fight for this sort of thing or any advice anyone has on what can be done to get this defect overturned?

[Disco Muppet]

That's odd.
I highly doubt my numberplate can be read from a 45 degree angle from the drivers side and I've only got the factory rear wheel mount on my disco.
I'd be arguing it, but that's because I argue about most things :D
Best of luck with it :)

[Hoges]

so what angles are we talking about...44 deg 10 deg etc. Where is the 45 deg angle measured from... a long piece of string etc should enable you to determine exaclty the boundaries...
Is it a problem from both sides or just one side? Are you allowed 2 number plates (the same of course !!!) one each side?

Write a "respectful" letter with photos invoking the "as far as practicable" rule and then if it's still knocked back ask them to articulate a legally enforceable meaning of as far a practicable which can be tangibly measured to remove doubt as to what constitutes "as far as practicable".

This will have several benefits:

1. it will exercise your ability to think in complex terms and develop a rational argument;
2. you will gain experience in clasping the cold limp hand of institutionalised bureaucratic inertia
3. you will be addressing an issue which has confounded and confused deskbound rule makers ...else they would not have employed the phrase "as far as practicable"

4. keep detailed records of conversations including to whom and when and what was said

5. have fun and remember you are striking a blow in the fight against sloppy policy and regulation!

6. #5 above applies!

cheers

[DEFENDERZOOK]

id say the simple arguement is.....the spare wheel is still in the factory fitted position........
and so is the number plate........

[jasonedu]

so what angles are we talking about...44 deg 10 deg etc. Where is the 45 deg angle measured from... a long piece of string etc should enable you to determine exaclty the boundaries...
Is it a problem from both sides or just one side? Are you allowed 2 number plates (the same of course !!!) one each side?

i think i would be closer to 60 deg on one side (drivers) only. 45 degrees would give me half a number plate. It cannot be moved over further (tailgate wont open) and there is no room on the other side for another plate.

I like your idea of getting them to define "practicable"

[jasonedu]

id say the simple arguement is.....the spare wheel is still in the factory fitted position........
and so is the number plate........

aftermarket wheel carrier for a 130 so no factory option unfortunately. I suspect a lot/most rear wheel carriers would struggle with this measurement anyway.

[mudmouse]

Vehicle defects aren't something that can get overturned or cancelled, unlike fines. They're supposed to be issued to identify and then correct safety related breaches of the regulations. Unfortunately, this has extended to a, and in your case, any breach of the ADR or perceived breach of the ADR. This perception can also include noise, emissions and driver visibility. The rules are nationwide, not just ACT ones.

So, because your rego plate is perceived or believed not to comply with the 45 degree rule by the issuing officer, without actually measuring it, the defect can only be cleared by an (AIS) Authorised Inspection Station (pink slip/blue slip), where they can measure it, or decide of they think it's okay. It's a bit like the noisy exhaust 'eh, sounds too loud, go get it checked'... If they do pass it, keep a copy of the 'passed' defect notice in case you get stopped again. It won't mean you won't and can't be defected again, just that it may show some legitimacy to the part in regard to the Regulations, and that you have attempted to seek clarity on it's fitment and that you (and the AIS bloke) believe it to be okay.

In NSW that 'offence' carries a 400-odd dollar fine with 3 demerit points added to your licence, that fine can be challenged at Court but that's another thing. Defects don't always come with fines attached, but they can.

You may also see 90/110's with the access ladder to the roof rack fitted over the rear rego plate. Technically that's obscuring it, which is under the same piece of legislation, with the same potential penalty.

It might be easier to move the plate to the new spare wheel, so long as its got a light on it and it doesn't stick out too far - which is another issue....you're not supposed to have protrusions from the front or rear of a vehicle, and this includes tow bars (when not towing a trailer). It's not something that's prosecuted, but it is a breach.

You may also want to go back to where you bought the aftermarket carrier and ask them about it?

The reference to 'practicable' relates to the fitment of the rego plate. That's means whilst the plate it fitted there (by the factory), you have then fitted something to the vehicle which obscures it, so you are then required to move the plate 'as far as practicable' in order to comply with the Regulations. This may mean moving it rearward so it can be seen 45 either side (and above - click, smile for the camera). And, no, you may only display one rego plate on the front and on the rear of a vehicle (motorbikes and trailers except).

This is all just my interpretation of the problem, but i've spent a fair bit of time dealing with this sort of stuff, and these sort of Government Departments.....

Anyway, hope you get it cleared without any further dramas.


Matt.

[PhilipA]

It might be easier to move the plate to the new spare wheel, so long as its got a light on it and it doesn't stick out too far - which is another issue....you're not supposed to have protrusions from the front or rear of a vehicle, and this includes tow bars (when not towing a trailer). It's not something that's prosecuted, but it is a breach.

My first thought when reading your post is whether the tyre is standard size or bigger diameter?, is the swingaway rear carrier REALLY in the same position or does it stick out further.

Recently I worked on a Jeep Wrangler which had both of the above, and had the number plate on a mount in the middle of the spare, didn't stick out , had a nice connector , and seemed to me to be only minimal PITA., except if changing spare or in our case removing the swingaway.
The cop must have had a slow day

Regards Philip A

[Sitec]

Three photos please. One from directly behind, one from 45deg to the left, and one from 45deg to the right. Photos tell a thousand words!:) Tape a few numbers over tho! ;)

[Albert]

My mate got booked in Qld for the same thing. He was able to take it to court to fight.
As suggested above, he took 2 pics, one from each side and from the distance and angle specified.
The judge took a quick glimse and dissmissed the fine.
Qld might be differnt, and he had days off when going to court.
Also the case in Gympie a while ago.
The cops booked a few brand new land cruiser traybacks for numberplate placement. But didnt book the head copper their who also had the exact same tray and placment.....

[gitney]

I got a fine and four points but no defect for having a ladder over my number plate on my 110. I went to court over it and got off the fine and points. Since I have stuck a nsw bike rack number plate on the front of the ladder and left the original number plate in place. I also had to illuminate the bike rack number plate to keep it legal.
So if you have the energy to pursue it you may have a good chance to get off in court.

[rijidij]

Three photos please. One from directly behind, one from 45deg to the left, and one from 45deg to the right. Photos tell a thousand words!:) Tape a few numbers over tho! ;)

This isn't Jason's car, and I don't have pics from all angles, but it is the same wheel carrier on another 130.

Cheers, Murray

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/678.jpg

[mudmouse]

I think the rule says, 'clearly visible.... at a 45 degree angle.... at a distance of 20 metres'. Also, we can't take defect notices to Court - it's not a penalty notice (fine), so the Court has no jurisdiction over it being issued, or it's outcome.

Matt.

[Nera Donna]

Just out of interest’s sake. Does anybody know the implications of receiving a ‘defect notice’ when traveling interstate? Ie Victoria registered vehicle receiving a notice in Queensland, visa verse etc, etc?