snorkel for p38

[p38driver]

check this out what do you think.

Snorkel für Range Rover P38 + Adapter linke Seite aus ABS Kunststoff neu | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Snorkel-fur-Range-Rover-P38-Adapter-linke-Seite-aus-ABS-Kunststoff-neu-/121084909661?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item1c3139185d#ht_1320wt_916)

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=61555&stc=1&d=1370741709

[PaulP38a]

think I just bought one :)

Will let you know what I think when it arrives and I've had a proper look at it.

The pipe going up the A pillar looks a bit small in diameter compared to the ones we used to make through Hard Range. Now that Hard Range is gone (as is my blue P38 with the HRA snorkel) I just have the black P38 so am in the market for a new snorkel anyway.

[Hoges]

Seems reasonable... but one would need to examine how well it's put together.
My observation of others' efforts in this regard is that a snorkel won't address a major design flaw: when the water level gets towards the height of the wheel , it's also flowing past the seals in the driver's door and in danger of flooding the BECM etc, let alone rusting out the floor because of the thickness of carpet and underlay...all soggy into the bargain.

[bruce p38]

I reckon the p38 RR , once the door seals are gaffa taped (the cheap stuff)
and a snorkles fitted, is a reasonable wader. I believe crossing rivers that are over half a metre deep is crazy for any make of vehicle or river. Ive seen all sorts of vehicles come unstuck in river crossings. I appreciate getting "caught out" as such but as a 4WDing guide line, it should rule . Ring up and find out if the rivers "are up" before a trip and that might help things.

All the Best

Bruce P38

[wayneg]

A great find and a good price. I will await Pauls expert opinion. Shame they dont do a lot for the cars looks, I would love to see one in the flesh.

[benji]

Yes; would love to get Paul's opinion and a photo or two.
I tend to think the p38 body may be almost water tight if the drain holes in the doors and lower tailgate are tapped over.

[Gippslander]

Did a quick translate regarding snorkel i am interested but this is what is says as taken from the add.



The Snorkel is made ​​of ABS plastic and the left side of the car.
UV-resistant and ideal for off-road, it also optimizes the intake
and prevents the penetration of water into the air filter.
No kit and no mounting hardware here.

• INFORMATION • ARTICLE

Made of ABS plastic.
Absolutely weatherproof.
The snorkel is not as brittle and fragile as the fiberglass plastic.
Color is black.
The Snorkel is unprocessed and paintable.

Delivery content includes a snorkel and a material certificate.



Let me know if it is a good thing please.

[33chinacars]

There also appears to be a very simular snorkel in the Terrafirma catalouge

[tasi devil]

Terrafirma RR P38 Snorkel | Snorkels - Southdown Snorkels Accessories for Land Rover Vehicles (http://www.terrafirma4x4.com/products_php.php?cat=93&grp=322)

hmmm! Southdown product but, no image , no product data.

Paul if it looks like a 'goodun' would we be able to do a bulk purchase direct from the manufacturer, or from this person on e-bay ?
i'm sure we could get enough takers........& it's raining cats & dogs here at present, so i'd be in for sure.

............tasi

[Gippslander]

Southdown product is still in testing according to Ritters and is not available as yet been trying to buy one myself.
Like all on here would love to get one to keep the dirt and water out.:D

[BusinessConnected]

Just bought one for the Off Road Project P38... Will see how it looks/goes when it arrives...

Paul might pick your brain if I need install help....

[PaulP38a]

Paul if it looks like a 'goodun' would we be able to do a bulk purchase direct from the manufacturer, or from this person on e-bay ?
i'm sure we could get enough takers........& it's raining cats & dogs here at present, so i'd be in for sure.

............tasi

$160 AUD inc delivery to Oz seems dirt cheap to me. I don't have my expectations set too high and am hoping to be surprised.
Whether SWMBO lets me fit it to "her" P38 is yet to be discussed ;)
Will let you guys know what I think when it gets here.
Cheers, Paul.

[DANMAL]

Yeah the top looks bit small, maybe if there's a way to modify it Paul, maybe stick a bigger pipe in there, somehow mold it in.. If no good I'm probably just going to bite the bullet n stick the patrol style stainless steel exhaust piping..

[FANTOM P38]

Gotta wonder what quality is like!
Design looks ok from photos although not sure about intake - maybe this could be swapped for other brand though.
Price does seem too good to be true. Im not in big hurry for one so will wait see what comments are posted by those who have ordered already.

[davidsonsm]

Any further news on the german snorkel? Keen to see what it looks like and how it actually fits. Cheers sean

[BusinessConnected]

Still waiting for mine to arrive...

[PaulP38a]

I only got notification today that it had shipped from Germany.

Obviously positive feedback is not a high priority for this crowd. Their listing says it posts within 2 days of getting payment, not 2 weeks!

Not a great start, hopefully the product will exceed expectations.

[BusinessConnected]

Same here... received shipping notification yesterday...

[olbod]

If no good I'm probably just going to bite the bullet n stick the patrol style stainless steel exhaust piping..

Been thinking a bit about this myself. A mandrel bent pipe to shape and length with a Safari top knot should do the trick. What diamater ? Thing could be colour coded also. I am not interested in river crossings so much as dust.
But if the German thingy is ok ( its cheap ) and a group buy is proposed, count me in.

[goldiloxgirl]

Six thirty in the morning is a good time to sleep...its also a good time for my snorkel to arrive from Germany. It looks ok at first glance...I only need to work out how to attach der schnorkel. Paul, you got me into this mess (only kidding)...hurry up and get yours so you can tell me where to drill the holes.

Lani

[PaulP38a]

Got one of those awful "sorry we missed you" notes from Aust Post stuck in the front gate today, so my snorkel might waiting at the PO. May get there tomorrow morning to collect it... fingers crossed.
Cheers, Paul.

[BusinessConnected]

I always get mine a day or two later... hopefully I'll get it Monday....
Sometimes I get very lucky and I get a Friday Transfer at the Local general Store on a Saturday Morning...

[mtb_gary]

It sounds like waiting for Santa to arrive :D

Gary

[PaulP38a]

Nope, wasn't the snorkel waiting at the PO. At least I now have a new radiator and hose set waiting for me to find time to install.

[goldiloxgirl]

Somebody mentioned concerns about the upright tube diameter...as it turns out, it is only 2"... which leaves me wondering if its adequate :o Thoughts anyone?
I might see if I can upload some photos tomorrow.

Regards,

Lani

[PaulP38a]

hmm, that does concern me Lani. The old Hard Range RAI was 90-100mm diameter and even then we were initially concerned whether it was enough.

Time, and testing, will tell. Thanks for sharing.

Cheers, Paul.

[goldiloxgirl]

Doing a quick Google shows the common size for 4wd's seems to be 3 inches or 3 1/2 inches. Doesn't say if that's internal or external. I just put a tape on mine and it's actually 2 1/4 inches internally. I will have a closer look with a view to a modification to fit a larger pipe and ram head. I will let you know how I go.

Regards,

Lani

[benji]

Just got an email back from southdown; theyre not going to build a p38 snorkel. :(

[olbod]

I like the one on Roothy's Red truck.

[goldiloxgirl]

It doesn't look as though fitting a larger upright pipe will be easy. Another problem is the narrow section where the snorkel passes the apex of the guard above the wheel. That measures approx 3" by 1 1/2" internally...but that's not 4 1/2 square inches in cross section because of the tapered edges...so this choke point is approximately 3 1/2 square inches...which is roughly the same area as the 2 1/4" upright pipe cross section. Compare this to the cross section area of the inlet and outlet of the filter box which is 3" diameter thus approx 7 square inches. So in other words, it might be pretty moot trying to increase the upright pipe diameter. I suspect that narrowing of the guard above the front wheel is a critical design limitation that explains why nobody else has marketed a P38 snorkel. Maybe I will cut out template with a 2 1/4" hole and fit it between the MAF and the filter housing to give me an idea of the performance with the restricted airflow. It may perform ok but I have my doubts.

Regards,

Lani

[glenhendry]

I am hopeful this will work well, keep us informed.

As far as the diameter goes, just remember, that everyone installing a single point LPG diffuser reduces the intake flow from 3" (76.2mm) to "something less than that) due to the diffuser. So perhaps it will be no worse than that?

[PaulP38a]

Mine arrived today.

Worst packaging I have ever seen, surprised all the bits arrived from Germany without rattling about and breaking. The cardboard box was ripped, and Aust Post had attached a sticker saying they had repaired it when they received it.

I am not sure if anything is missing as there is a big hole down one side of the box. There was no paperwork in the box either so I guess it is up to us to figure how to put it together and some way of mounting it.

Did anyone else get instructions or suggested methods for mounting, nuts, bols etc?

[davidsonsm]

Have you seen this snorkel on Ala-Plast Shop (http://www.ala-plast.com?) It seems poorly conceived in terms of templates and fasteners etc. Still nobody else every mass produced one before. The website shows one fitted. You have to buy your own fasteners according to the website. Keen to see how you go. I'm still leaning towards combining 3 ldpe snorkels in to one. But will only fit it, if it looks right. Cheers. PS I asked the manufacturers if they would do a larger dia pipe version.

[goldiloxgirl]

No instructions in my box either. I have to agree with you Paul regarding the packaging- it was woeful but all the bits shown on eBay appeared to be present. What do you think about the 2 1/4" pipe?

Kind regards,

Lani



Mine arrived today.

Worst packaging I have ever seen, surprised all the bits arrived from Germany without rattling about and breaking. The cardboard box was ripped, and Aust Post had attached a sticker saying they had repaired it when they received it.

I am not sure if anything is missing as there is a big hole down one side of the box. There was no paperwork in the box either so I guess it is up to us to figure how to put it together and some way of mounting it.

Did anyone else get instructions or suggested methods for mounting, nuts, bols etc?

[PaulP38a]

I have sent them a "please explain" on eBay. I am not too bothered about not getting any mounting hardware but I would expect some guidance on how they do it.

There is no provision for captive nuts in the lower body of the snorkel so essentially you would need to drill holes through it.

I am not sure which way the attachment in to the air box is supposed to go. How easy would it have been for them to include a small length of 65mm ID rubber pipe to connect the inner and outer pipes? :mad:

The 65mm down pipe might be ok, just looks too small. Visually, a 90-100mm pipe would be more attractive.

The attached pic shows what was in the box. Lots of air and bugger all packaging.

Update: I just measured the pipe as 59mm ID and 63mm OD.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/p38a-range-rover/59518d1366724313-snorkel-p38-img_0856_resize.jpg

[Keithy P38]

Perfect size for a Fiat 500 snorkel!

[TheTree]

Looks like the guys on eBay were flogging the ala-plast snorkels, with some mounting bits thrown in, maybe... They seem to have gone very quiet :o

Airflow restriction seems to be an inherent issue with a snorkel, due to the design of the P38.

I guess the other alternative is to do what RAVE suggests and "attend to the air filter more frequently in dusty conditions":wasntme:
Steve

[benji]

Paul, I was just wondering; that RAI you developed for HRA, was that fibreglass or plastic blow molded?

Also, would anyone know if the plastic airbox is suitable to be plastic welded?

[redandy3575]

I had a funny feeling that this snorkel may have been too good to be true.

[PaulP38a]

Paul, I was just wondering; that RAI you developed for HRA, was that fibreglass or plastic blow molded?

Also, would anyone know if the plastic airbox is suitable to be plastic welded?

The HRA RAI was reinforced fibreglass mould and finished by hand.

Dunno if the air box can be plastic welded... Sikaflex is pretty handy for making air/water-tight additions though.

Got a response from our friends in Germany today asking whether anything appeared missing from my order and suggestions for mounting the snorkel. Here is the response:
"yes all parts are included, unfortunately there are no instructions for montage.ich have been pictures from a customer, it may help them further.
that is with the 23 and the 4 of the blame dhl."

no help there, and blaming DHL for why they did not post the snorkel for almost 2 weeks instead of the 2 days per their listing.

Is going to be hard to give these guys positive feedback on eBay.

[davidsonsm]

Any further updates?

[PaulP38a]

nope, haven't had time or inclination to find the extra bits that I will need to make it work, i.e. means to secure it to the FL guard, A-pillar and roof, plus 61mm ID hose length to secure outer to inner pipes.
I don't have much confidence in the diameter of the pipe and am loathe to cut the guard for a reduction in performance.
I have an old guard here that I may use for testing at some stage.

Will update this post if/when I get to it.

I got no further response from the wombats in Germany, so left them neutral feedback on eBay.

[mtb_gary]

I got no further response from the wombats in Germany, so left them neutral feedback on eBay.

I think neutral was being VERY generous!

Gary

[Robsrod 58]

I emailed them as well regarding availability - nil response, maybe just as well. They do have a separate website if you really want to contact them!

Rob

[PaulP38a]

[QUOTE=PaulP38a;1906092]I got no further response from the wombats in Germany, so left them neutral feedback on eBay.

I think neutral was being VERY generous!

Gary

the quality of the moulded plastic components looks pretty reasonable, only their support and shipping/packing is sub-standard.

[BusinessConnected]

I don't agree about the Quality of the Moulded Plastic... It is vert very thin... Mine arrived cracked around where the cuts were made into the Main Piece for the 61mm OD Pole...

I've lodged a Paypal Claim requesting a refund as it's simply not fit for the purpose.

[highrr]

I just made mine finally finished it yesterday and fitted it, boy made a big difference.

[BusinessConnected]

Pictures or it didn't happen HighRR :)

Would love some details of how/what you made...

You can email them to me if you like...

[highrr]

Here is a pic

[QUOTE=PaulP38a;1906092]

[bruce p38]

Me too! RAI looks awesome ! Would love details ! My 95 doesn't have a air filter box just the sporty K&N oiled unit so Id like a RAI soon as I can !
Any Information much appreciated

B p38

[TheTree]

I just made mine finally finished it yesterday and fitted it, boy made a big difference.

Just wondering what difference it made ?

Steve

[highrr]

Hi Steve

I have a Gen 3 in mine P38 and its made it breathe a lot better, it sucks air in like a jet engine and is much more responsive down low now.

One of the best mods I have made

[Scouse]

it sucks air in like a jet engine and is much more responsive down low now.

I wonder if that's because of the possible restricted airflow now resulting in an increase in the intake system air speed. It seems like it if you have improved torque down low but it might mean that it starves for air once the revs pick up.

[highrr]

I wouldn't think so as it seems to have improved in all areas of the
rev range, its just a lot more noticeable down low.

[Hoges]

I'd be checking lambda values... just to be sure to be sure;)

[FANTOM P38]

Highrr - Just out of curiosity is your rig on coils or4 air?

[davidsonsm]

Could you post a few extra pictures. Under bonnet and some close ups. Thanks.

[highrr]

its on air bags

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/p38a-range-rover/60112d1367840620-snorkel-p38-img_0668.jpg

[Hoges]

Amazing!:twisted: BTW...what's the cylindrical concertina thingy just to the right of the ABS accumulator ...seems to be covering the brake modulator.
did it come with a 'street directory' for routing all the pipes?:D

[benji]

Saw a gen2 in a 99p38 a few months ago. Great power, said he could spin all 4 wheels on dry bitumen.

He was having trouble with the eatecu though - couldn't really get it to work correctly. Something about the throttle position sensor not being recognised by the eatecu.

I was wondering what the cylindical thingy was too, was thinking it might be filled with English air for the eas - works heaps better in English air I've been told. ;)

[996TURBO]

https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/818/snorkelr.jpg

[redandy3575]

Here's one I prepared earlier.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/p38a-range-rover/60251d1368146058-snorkel-p38-image.jpg

[glenhendry]

That is fantastic RedAndy, did you build it custom? I want one.

[redandy3575]

That is fantastic RedAndy, did you build it custom? I want one.

A company called '4by fabrications' based in Carrum Downs in victotia built it for me. Not cheap though at $870 installed, but tough as Nails. Had 2 massive rocks the size of golf balls fling up from the development road in Cape York, and hit the snorkel and barely put a mark on it. Heaven knows what the outcome would have been if it had hit the windscreen.

[996TURBO]

After some coats of plastidip paint

https://imageshack.us/scaled/large/202/snorkel1.jpg

[davidsonsm]

Can you show a side on photo. Also interested to learn how they routed the pipe once inside the wing. I've looked at my eas p38 inside the wing above the liner and it looks impossible - obviously not. Hence why I'm trying to.plastic weld one going down the outside of the wing.

[996TURBO]

I tried to get a tube inside the wing, it's not a good idea at all. Too narrow...

I finally routed the pipe inside the engine bay.

Same kind of install as my friend David.

Le pet de DAV P38 - Page 3 (http://www.rangeroverp38.com/t3246p40-le-pet-de-dav-p38#47733)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/438.jpg

[Keithy P38]

Do you think it would make life easier to move the air filter housing to where the cruise control module is?

Reason I ask is that I've mounted a second compressor in the space between the EAS box and the motor and space is no longer available for me there. If the air filter housing was up the back I'd be able to move the second compressor to the old air filter housing position.

A great pic there, shows how to do it no worries!

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

It looks like you're on springs. If so, what's the black box where the EAS compressor usually is?

[996TURBO]

Mine is still on air springs.

I move the air filter in place of cruice control unit (no more cruise control).

I have a big compressor in place of OEM air filter box.

See :

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/435.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/436.jpg

[Keithy P38]

I spoke too soon!

The only downside I can see is the lack of cruise control. It would be nice to have as most drives to camp spots are quite long. I might have a gander and see if I can move the air box and keep the cruise!

Might be able to relocate the EAS box as well to make it all fit.

Thanks for the pics! They have inspired me!

[davidsonsm]

Whereabouts are you based. Would love to take a sneaky peak.

[BusinessConnected]

Just for everyones reference the Seller never responded to my Paypal Claim and I was given a refund of $100 Euro's from original purchase price.

[Keithy P38]

Whereabouts are you based. Would love to take a sneaky peak.

I believe he lives in Paris, France.

Good enough reason for a holiday!

[davidsonsm]

Oh!

[996TURBO]

I believe he lives in Paris, France.

Good enough reason for a holiday!
That's right:cool:

[33chinacars]

Are you inviting us ALL over :D

[Pete38]

I'll be over there in July so maybe I can bring 30kg of P38 stuff back in my checkin luggage. Start placing your orders gents :D

[davidsonsm]

Does anybody wish to offload the Ali-plastic snorkel. Wouldn't mind tinkering with it - the wing section at any rate. Will pay of course.

[PaulP38a]

Sorry Sean, as much as I am disappointed in it, I do plan to have a go at fitting it one day with my spare front left guard. It is definitely a roundtoit job though and I have no idea when I will get time yet.

Plus, if I were to sell it and decided to buy another, I don't think they would sell to me given the poor review I gave them ;)

[davidsonsm]

I've ordered one - just for the wing section. Will have to work out how to join ldpe downpipe for a patrol with the abs wing section. Mechanically me thinks.

[BusinessConnected]

That's actually not a bad idea...
The Internals of the Wing Unit are fairly large, if you were to "Drill Out" the Inlet and Outlet to suit something larger you'd be on a good wicket I think...

[p38arover]

I've never bothered with a snorkel as I've not yet seen one that looks any good on the P38A.

I always regretted ruining the lines of my RR classic with a snorkel.

[TheTree]

I am with you Ron, apart from what seems to be a monumental hassle getting one to fit, it spoils the line of the Rangie !

Steve

[davidsonsm]

Agreed - the majority of those I've seen do spoil the lines. That's why I've got hold of a spare wing as a template and I'm trying to ensure it looks factory made. We'll see. Got myself some fibreglass and also a plastic welder. Project for July.

[parasnoop67]

The fording ability of the p38 is quite reasonable if things are in good order under the bonnet and the wheel arch liner is correctly fitted.The gap which can occur at the front of the liner can be taped with gaffa tape to seal it.
I recently did a run through the Balfour track (at Easter) and although water levels were down, it was hard to keep the bow wave down below bonnet height for 100 or so and one deeper spot had water come over the bonnet and up the windscreen briefly.
A check later showed that no water had been into the air box and the motor never missed a beat. No water came through the door seals either.
So unless you intend to do very deep water,maybe a snorkel isn't totally necessary.

[Robsrod 58]

The fording ability of the p38 is quite reasonable if things are in good order under the bonnet and the wheel arch liner is correctly fitted.The gap which can occur at the front of the liner can be taped with gaffa tape to seal it.
I recently did a run through the Balfour track (at Easter) and although water levels were down, it was hard to keep the bow wave down below bonnet height for 100 or so and one deeper spot had water come over the bonnet and up the windscreen briefly.
A check later showed that no water had been into the air box and the motor never missed a beat. No water came through the door seals either.
So unless you intend to do very deep water,maybe a snorkel isn't totally necessary.
Better people than us designed the P38 and would have taken a lot of things into consideration including putting the BECM under the seat, funny they did the same thing on the L322. Don't forget Land Rover make only 4WD's

No snorkel for me but a better air cleaner I would die for!

Rob

[benji]

All is fine I think if you've got a bow wave, but if you stop it doesn't take that long for the water to fill things up.

Ive had water over the windscreen wipers on my classic for about 30meters, but it only took 20 seconds in headlight depth water to wet the air filter.

[davidsonsm]

Paul - how did you make the mould for the snorkel you used to have on your hard range vehicle?

[redandy3575]

The fording ability of the p38 is quite reasonable if things are in good order under the bonnet and the wheel arch liner is correctly fitted.The gap which can occur at the front of the liner can be taped with gaffa tape to seal it.
I recently did a run through the Balfour track (at Easter) and although water levels were down, it was hard to keep the bow wave down below bonnet height for 100 or so and one deeper spot had water come over the bonnet and up the windscreen briefly.
A check later showed that no water had been into the air box and the motor never missed a beat. No water came through the door seals either.
So unless you intend to do very deep water,maybe a snorkel isn't totally necessary.

I'd say it buys you time. I did notice on mine that if the bonnet seal is in good order, it will create an under bonnet air bubble.

It's a bit of a gamble, cause all it takes for you to get bogged half way across the river, and you've got a problem.

Bottom line is anything above 90cm in water height, and your driving in un chartered territory. 4wds are simply not designed for driving in anything deeper, though a snorkel does help.

[PaulP38a]

Paul - how did you make the mould for the snorkel you used to have on your hard range vehicle?

Not a lot to share in terms of the old HRA Snorkel/RAI I am afraid. Andy made the first mould by hand with pipes and putty and then we passed it to a small fibreglass shop in Sydney to make for us.
Each one was made by hand in reinforced fibreglass, and then the guy that ran the shop went AWOL so we effectively lost the mould, unless Andy ever tracked him down :mad:

A few tips:
- aim for internal diameter of 90-100mm
- silicone turbo intercooler pipe is good to make the flex join between the inner guard and the air box. Use ring clamps to secure the flex joiner.
- you will need to make an adapter at the air box for the flex joiner, and use lots of Sikaflex to seal around the adapter.
- at the bonnet hinge/A-pillar bend, you will want to kink the snorkel outwards a bit to allow the bonnet to open without fouling.
- make tabs on the pipe along the A-pillar that can be secured to the existing screws on the A-pillar cover.
- make tabs on the pipe along the FL guard that use the existing bolt holes for the guard. Add another tab (or two) or recessed nut at the bottom of the pipe to steady the pipe.

best wishes with your project.

Cheers, Paul.

[intheozone]

The fording ability of the p38 is quite reasonable if things are in good order under the bonnet and the wheel arch liner is correctly fitted.The gap which can occur at the front of the liner can be taped with gaffa tape to seal it.
I recently did a run through the Balfour track (at Easter) and although water levels were down, it was hard to keep the bow wave down below bonnet height for 100 or so and one deeper spot had water come over the bonnet and up the windscreen briefly.
A check later showed that no water had been into the air box and the motor never missed a beat. No water came through the door seals either.
So unless you intend to do very deep water,maybe a snorkel isn't totally necessary.

I wish I had been so lucky... Having forded some rivers in my old Pajero I was confident in my ability to get the belly of my P38 a bit wet. The "puddle" was not big in size but the bonnet went under for a second or so and in that time my thirsty girl took a big gulp of water through the air filter and into the engine. The result was a insurance statutory write off. i suspect I may have been unlucky however I was shocked at how easily the water got in.

I got a "new" 2001 P38a on Saturday and a snorkle will be one of the first mods.

[redandy3575]

I wish I had been so lucky... Having forded some rivers in my old Pajero I was confident in my ability to get the belly of my P38 a bit wet. The "puddle" was not big in size but the bonnet went under for a second or so and in that time my thirsty girl took a big gulp of water through the air filter and into the engine. The result was a insurance statutory write off. i suspect I may have been unlucky however I was shocked at how easily the water got in.

I got a "new" 2001 P38a on Saturday and a snorkle will be one of the first mods.

Auch!!!!! Tough lesson.

[TheTree]

HI

I was wondering if anyone ever managed to get one of these fitted. I see they are still available and am wondering if they might be a good starting point.

So I am wondering what others did with "Das Snorkel"

Steve

[TheTree]

Hi,

Das Snorkel doesn't sound like it is much use :angry:

I am thinking the internal route is the way to go as well.

Once I have a mold, I think I might look for a local surfboard or boat builder.

I like the look of the stainless snorkel redandy has ... except for the part along the guard.

Good luck with yours:D

Steve

[davidsonsm]

I'm gonna go internal internal. Not down the gap between wing and liner and the whatimacalled.

Decided that was too tough a routing.

Reckon a 90mm hose will run to the right (when viewed from the rear) and under the eas box and associated tubing.

I've removed the cruise control throttle controller in prep and also relocated the charcoal canister.

I've ordered a 90mm polypropylene flanged spigot from a yacht chandelier (vent duct) that I'll weld to the opposite side of the oem air box. I'll blank off the original intake to the air box.

Just trying to decide on whether to weld 90mm st stl pipe for the A pillar/wing section (using bought mandrel bends - prob $300 in materials) or try to combine two patrol gu snorkels (ldpe material) that I've acquired from tigerz11.

The st stl option is much easier. But I'm quite keen to have a "off the shelf" looking snorkel. The patrol option would involve plastic welding, plus shaping, plus a section of fibreglass moulding and no doubt body filler. And of course scrubbing out the moulded word "patrol"on the side of the snorkel. The fibreglass would fill the gap where the clam shell bonnet is. The positive mould would be shaped from EPS as suggested.

Will have a go in August. Bought a spare wing in prep to use as a template. Would be grateful for any comments/critiques/observations.

[benji]

Just wondering if a 90mm pipe would fit through the inner guard without cutting into the body channel seam. A triangual shape would definately makeup the 80cm2.

[Keithy P38]

My snorkel (being fitted as we type) is 3" (75mm). That's the same diameter as the intake pipework. Bigger is not necessary!

[davidsonsm]

My snorkel (being fitted as we type) is 3" (75mm). That's the same diameter as the intake pipework. Bigger is not necessary!

My thinking was that 1.5m of 90mm do a + 0.5m of 75mm dia was better than 2m of 75mm dia when considering reduced air flow caused by friction losses.

[Keithy P38]

I guess it only matters with W.O.T anyway. Ill let you know if it feels any different when I pick it up tomorrow!

[TheTree]

Hi

I don't have the option of the under the bonnet route, my gas injection gubbins takes up all the space there, and if the inside the guard route is a non starter, then it's the outside route for me.

Waiting with interest to see what Keithy's looks like :D

Steve

[Keithy P38]

So...

Here's mine! Got it back late this arv. Induction noise is not noticable in cab unless you have the sunroof open :-)

Cheers
Keithy

[TheTree]

Keith

That looks pretty damn good ! :D

Did they keep a template or is it a custom job?

Steve

[Keithy P38]

Custom job. He said that any fab shop should have the gear to be able to do it.

A job well done in my opinion!

[davidsonsm]

So...

Here's mine! Got it back late this arv. Induction noise is not noticable in cab unless you have the sunroof open :-)

Cheers
Keithy

Great for peace l of mind. Good job.

[redandy3575]

Custom job. He said that any fab shop should have the gear to be able to do it.

A job well done in my opinion!

OMG that looks almost identical to mine,lol, we better not park next to each other or i might accidentally take your car :D.

Nah seriously, it's the only way to go, It'll last a lifetime.

[Keithy P38]

Another thing worth mentioning, I can't see the snorkel from in the drivers seat at all - good for high glare situations.

[stickso]

Looks great - simple & effective.

[intheozone]

If you can powder coat it black or colour match the body it looks great. How does it attach to the air box?

[Keithy P38]

Silicone hose enters the box, the internal "duct pipe" in the base of the air box has been removed and replaced with a larger duct. The stainless goes right into the box, the silicone hose is over the top of that and a new duct over that. All sealed up, drain hole made in the bottom to let water out (if it enters via the snorkel mouth).

Hard to explain why it's done that way until you see it in the flesh!

[glenhendry]

More pics please Keithy! Im interested to see how it fixes to the body, and also the connection to the airbox.

I think it looks very nice overall, and an important improvement. I am sick of saying, "There are no viable options for P38s, to my 4x4 friends".

The snorkels for the Gen4 RR (L405) is interesting, it has a 900mm wading depth due to very interesting internal bonnet ducting, but it will need two snorkels and some very imaginative ducting due to the innovative way the airboxes connect to the bonnet cavity via small rubber/foam "chimneys" that protrude vertically up from the top of the wing guard into the bonnet cavity.

[rc42]

I suspect that the 900mm wading depth has involved relocating critical control electronics from under the seats too, maybe in 10 years or so we'll be here discussing modification options for the L405 and how much better at wading the new model is.

Keithy, I do like that snorkel, I think I'd go for a toned down version in black or body colour though.

Currently we just turn around and find another route when we come across deep water crossings, I'd like to be able to take them on with confidence instead as there are quite a lot of them on most tracks.

[benji]

In testing landrover have had the 405 in more than a metre with no issues, but the rear starts floating at 950 apparently. Id be interested to know what would happen if you parked at maximum depth for a few minutes. The d3 definately fills with water but they still run.

Looks great Kiethy, just what you need for the cape! Id be tempted to tape over the drain hole on the otl though.

Are you taping the door drains too?

[davidsonsm]

How was everything sealed to the polypropylene air box. Just trying to work that out myself for moving the inlet to the opposite side. PP is weldable but glue options are thin (none). Mechanical and silicone?

Very interested to learn more on the water trap theory. There's an existing drain hole at present that I was planning to seal up. Plus the current inlet within a duct arrangement that I don't quite understand the concept of. Obviously the LR designers have thought about it.

I was considering using a small water sump pit with double valved drain line in mine - just in case water entered via the snorkel. Is this necessary or am I being overly cautious.

[davidsonsm]

So...

Here's mine! Got it back late this arv. Induction noise is not noticable in cab unless you have the sunroof open :-)

Cheers
Keithy

Don't suppose you know the angle of the A pillar to the horizontal? For the bend.

[Keithy P38]

Ill try to take a pic or two of the mounts and how it enters the air box tomorrow.

So basically, old mate cut the existing inlet duct out of the air box and ran the stainless directly in (same distance as the original duct), put a silicone hose over the top of that (to enter the box and fill the hole that was cut), sealed it up and then made a new duct piece that bolts over the whole lot to secure it down and stop it moving/vibrating.

He then made a new drain to allow water to escape should any get in via the snorkel.

I hope I've explained it right! He's done a few snorkels in his time and was almost in tears as I drove off (takes heaps of pride in his work judging by what I saw parked in the workshop).

I could take some measurements and try to get the angle for you. I wouldn't count on it being 100% accurate but I could get it close!

[Pete38]

Looks good mate.

In response to the powder coating comment... Maybe even something like a silicon spray paint (plastidip) for a removable but fairly durable permanent spray paint rather than covering up that lovely stainless permanently.

[davidsonsm]

Don't understand what prevents water ingress via the drain hole if the vehicle was in water deeper than the air box? Don't mean to be critical, but just trying to understand. Thanks.

[Keithy P38]

Thats cool mate, i fully understand where you are coming from! Ill likely tape it up for crossings.

It'd need to sit with an engine bay full of water for it to get in! The drain hole is only about 1/4 of the size of a 5c piece. Pretty small really!

Most water crossings are only a short period of time, if you get stuck in deep water in a P38 there's more to worry about than a little bit getting into the air box via the drain hole!

I'm not sure yet if I want to paint it or polish it up! I guess it's easier not to, would be hard to remove paint or plastidip if I did it and didn't like it!

[Pete38]

I'm not sure yet if I want to paint it or polish it up! I guess it's easier not to, would be hard to remove paint or plastidip if I did it and didn't like it!

Supposedly the plastidip is fairly easy to remove. I bought some matt black for my rims (car is white) as it stays on well but can be torn off.

But I think it looks good in the pics how it is and glare in the driver's seat isn't a problem from what you've said.

[goanna_shire]

Hi Keith,

I have had a go at the bag but I think its well and truly curtains for a popped gen III. I can see why they send you a new one and don't reccomend repair. Without a big crimp and a tool it is impossible:(. You are gonna need your spare back so we'll have to organise a rondaevou.

Cheers,
Brian.

[Keithy P38]

Easy done mate, cheers for having a crack!

[davidsonsm]

Started plastic welding the air filter box today. In order to move the inlet to the other side. Cut up an old PP tool box to use for piecing in/patching up. 63724

[Robsrod 58]

Hi all,

Rather than starting another thread on P38 RAI's I thought I would continue on this with one.

So,
1)Has any body got any photos of their car without the LHS guard on,
2) Has anybody actually measured the approximate area across the highest point of the inner guard,
3) Are there any obstructions between the inner and outer guard from the air box and the front door.

I know the consensus of opinion is there appears to be no enough volume using this route but, by feel there seems to be plenty, albeit an irregular shape.

Please feel free to put my mind at rest, this has been bugging me for a while:confused::confused:

Rob

[davidsonsm]

See if this helps:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=179453

There are some pictures I took with the wing removed. The inner wing is structural of course and I didn't want to hack away at that.

No obstructions, just awkward and tight. Most who have used that preferred route have cut away at the wheel liner. My concern with that, was that it would expose the duct to the wheel and road debris.

[Robsrod 58]

Ok,
Thats all I needed to see, minds at rest....pass me another beer luv!...:D:D:D:D

Rob

[Robsrod 58]

All right,

For those living in Sydney south you might wan't to check out this. Prices seem very reasonable.


Extreme Zilla Off Road (http://www.extremezillaoffroad.com/)

[davidsonsm]

This might show the space available to work with behind the outer wing.

[Robsrod 58]

So, by the looks of that it would be possible to cast the cavity with expanding foam and create a f/glass mould off that. I need about 36- 40cm2 at the peak of the wheel arch to get a good unrestricted flow.

mmm possibilities...

Rob

[Robsrod 58]

Or another way of determining the volume would be the size of the existing intake in the photo, and that volume looks very achievable.

Rob

[Pete38]

Well with the Lucky 8's snorkel seeming to come to a stand still and likelihood of at least $700, perhaps approaching a thousand dollars to land here, I've been looking at other options for snorkels. Its not something on my critical list but it something I'd like. But want to make sure its what I want before cutting guards.

I do like the look of the Lucky 8's snorkel but I also fear that cutting the bonnet may be classed as structural and not overly legal here... Not sure though.

So here's a find for anyone game to try. Low cost but possibly high work... Or maybe not.

But attached is a photo of a P38 on one of the facebook forums. Its a D2 snorkel thats been modified. They didn't really give details or reply to questions so not sure how much modifications were required to make the snorkel fit the P38..

Link to one for sale here in in Oz.

British Four Wheel Drive - Land Rover & Range Rover Parts Specialist :: SNORKELS :: SNORKEL KIT LAND ROVER DISCOVERY SERIES 2 (http://www.british4wd.com/xcart/product.php?productid=2081&cat=351&page=1)

[benji]

I've seen a few photos of him on faceache.
The a pillar section of his snorkel sits very vertical; the head would be be a good 6 inches from the pillar.

[davidsonsm]

Looks pretty good. Interesting to see how the bonnet and door open. Looks a little low on the A pillar.

Im guessing they're on coils as the entry point looks right alongside where the eas box would sit. Any snorkel I've seen entering the air box from outside of the wing at the front, do so much closer to the lights. Could be wrong though.

[Pete38]

Oh right. If the snorkel doesn't run parrallel with the pillar wel count that one out then. Would look odd. Have you found a pic that shows it better? That pic was copied from Stalkerbook.

Fair point about the entry point, but could it be just after the eas valve/pump box and before the airbox? If so that would men cutting through the inner guard which I don't think would be overly legal anymore I'd say without reinforcing where it went through.

[TheTree]

Hi

I guess since lucky8 has confirmed that you can run and airhose of sufficient diameter through the guard, then that is a starting point.

Now we need to get down the pillar and through the guard!

Steve

[benji]

Settle down Steve, I didn't mean it like that. Yes I have seen more photos of that car on facestalk.
What I aligning to was that the tube above the elbow needs to be bent in around the bonnet - so it's not an end solution; but yes, inspiration none the less. I've pm'd a few times a few months ago but he didn't respond.

[TheTree]

Settle down Steve, I didn't mean it like that. Yes I have seen more photos of that car on facestalk.
What I aligning to was that the tube above the elbow needs to be bent in around the bonnet - so it's not an end solution; but yes, inspiration none the less. I've pm'd a few times a few months ago but he didn't respond.

Benji

I am quite settled :D

What I meant was that they have at least proved that a tube running inside the guard provides enough airflow for the job.

So it's what to do to get down the pillar and through the guard which is the remaining challenge.

Whilst the idea of cutting the bonnet seems to provide a solution, I too am not sure about the legality of it in OZ.

Still, who would notice... hmm probably the QLD police from what I have heard about them !

Steve

[benji]

Sorry Steve, I meant Matt.

This phone app is playing up, it won't let me edit.

[TheTree]

Hi

Looking at this thread, it seems the bonnet route has been used by a few people, and it certainly looks neater than some.

P38 Snorkel/ Raised Air Intake (http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/7-range-rover-mark-ii-p38/30399-p38-snorkel-raised-air-intake.html)

I found this one on the interweb, not quite the stylish approach :o

Steve

[mtb_gary]

Steve, I've not seen that one before :D. I guess that guy is a roofing contractor specializing in gutters?

Gary

[TheTree]

Gary

I thought he might be a plumber :D

Steve

[Roger B.]

The fording ability of the p38 is quite reasonable if things are in good order under the bonnet and the wheel arch liner is correctly fitted.The gap which can occur at the front of the liner can be taped with gaffa tape to seal it.
I recently did a run through the Balfour track (at Easter) and although water levels were down, it was hard to keep the bow wave down below bonnet height for 100 or so and one deeper spot had water come over the bonnet and up the windscreen briefly.
A check later showed that no water had been into the air box and the motor never missed a beat. No water came through the door seals either.
So unless you intend to do very deep water,maybe a snorkel isn't totally necessary.

well.... I did not expect water to get in the airbox on this one either....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qolInSSpjNY

but it dit..... think i'm looking at at least 3 bent con-rods......it hashappened before you know it.....

only mods made to this p38 ist 2" lift (spacers under bags) with TF +2"shocks and 285/75R16 tires..........

guess I have been very lucky with my DSE doing this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/301.jpg

[benji]

I wouldn't have thought he'd get water in the intake from that. Makes me wonder if the wheel liner was off.


Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[mtb_gary]

I agree with you Benji, to get the 285/75/16's to fit I suspect the liner has been removed (same as Justin at Lucky 8). That plastic liner serves a pretty important role when fording, especially at higher speeds.

Gary

[TheTree]

That said any 4WD course instructor will tell you that is not the way to cross water :wasntme:

Of course that's what we see in all the ads on TV!

Steve

[Robsrod 58]

I must have used all my luck up then:p:p:D

No bent rods here, not a drop of water anywhere.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/194791-hoover-getting-her-boots-wet.html

[FANTOM P38]

I agree with you Benji, to get the 285/75/16's to fit I suspect the liner has been removed (same as Justin at Lucky 8). That plastic liner serves a pretty important role when fording, especially at higher speeds.

Gary

Hey GaRY, tO FIR 285 75 16'S IT Isn't necessary to remove inner liner so long as you have a lift kit. I use KM2's in this size with liners in place & 2" lift kit!
Just to confirm for anyone considering upsizing tyres. I like to have the odd play in mud so removing liners was not an option for me I also like to keep the P38 clean! :cool:

[redandy3575]

Hi

Looking at this thread, it seems the bonnet route has been used by a few people, and it certainly looks neater than some.

P38 Snorkel/ Raised Air Intake (http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/7-range-rover-mark-ii-p38/30399-p38-snorkel-raised-air-intake.html)

I found this one on the interweb, not quite the stylish approach :o

Steve

My Gawd.........is that where my roof down pipe has disapeared to.

[redandy3575]

well.... I did not expect water to get in the airbox on this one either....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qolInSSpjNY

but it dit..... think i'm looking at at least 3 bent con-rods......it hashappened before you know it.....

only mods made to this p38 ist 2" lift (spacers under bags) with TF +2"shocks and 285/75R16 tires..........

guess I have been very lucky with my DSE doing this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/08/301.jpg

Driving way too fast........

The amount of splashings would drown just about anything. Slow is the way to go in river crossings.

[TheTree]

During the LROC course I did, we stopped for a cup of tea just near a water crossing.

The instructors explained that it was not just because it was a nice spot to stop but that because water crossings are at the bottom of a descent it give a good opportunity to stop and let your brakes and running gear cool down.

Plunging hot brakes and running gear into ice cold water can cause the occasional issue:eek:

Steve

[redandy3575]

During the LROC course I did, we stopped for a cup of tea just near a water crossing.

The instructors explained that it was not just because it was a nice spot to stop but that because water crossings are at the bottom of a descent it give a good opportunity to stop and let your brakes and running gear cool down.

Plunging hot brakes and running gear into ice cold water can cause the occasional issue:eek:

Steve

Yep....like cracked discs.

[93RRC]

Has anybody considered getting tracking down a Hard Range snorkel for a P38a, and developing a fibreglass plug for a mould from it?

I did a bit of glass work when I was younger, and think it could be done.

Any thoughts?

[p38arover]

Ask PaulP38A or AndrewE from this forum. They were Hard Range and they developed the snorkel. (Although I'm not sure Andrew still comes here - his father Bundalene is here.)

[davidsonsm]

93RRC, have you seen some of the other P38 related snorkel posts? There are neater snorkel options available since the hard range one was developed. No offence to Paul.

[93RRC]

Davidson, can you post a link or brand I can google. I will have a look at the other posts soon.

[davidsonsm]

This morphed in to a snorkel discussion about page 14 of the thread.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/200793-teaser-week-14.html

Lucky8 are supplying their version of a similar design, commercially.

[davidsonsm]

My own posting on my snorkel build was titled:

snorkel kinda - work in progress

Or some such stupid title. There have been plenty others posted on the subject. Search the P38 section - the word snorkel will reap you rich rewards!! Or maybe not.

[davidsonsm]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/179453-snorkel-kind-work-progress.html

[HEYVJ]

I bought one of these Polish Snorkels about 1 year ago from Fleabay.


I haven't fitted it yet, it's still in the garage.
I must admit it looks a little flimsy, probably the main reason I haven't fitted it yet.


The "pipe" looks a bit shonky too.

[mtb_gary]

I contacted Justin at Lucky8 yesterday. The Lucky8 snorkel is available for US$420 + shipping from US (not sure on postage cost) but IMHO it is the best looking snorkel on the market.

Gary

[Pete38]

I was considering making mine, but I'd be happy to buy their snorkel if the postage ends up reasonable.

If you hear how much the postage is, could you let me know? Justin never replied to me (multiple times) so lost faith in the company... But I could give them another chance.

[mtb_gary]

Peter

I'll drop him an email and see if we get a reply

Gary

[mtb_gary]

Peter

Message back overnight US$110 delivered to Perth I'm guessing the same for delivery to Eastern states.

Gary

[p38arover]

Dunno if this has been posted previously but I just saw it on the 'net tonight.

Lovely!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/06/698.jpg

[PaulP38a]

Ron - that is all kinds of wrong!


93RRC, have you seen some of the other P38 related snorkel posts? There are neater snorkel options available since the hard range one was developed. No offence to Paul.

No offence taken Sean. The Hard Range RAI/Snorkel was more function than beauty, and we had planned on making a better looking unit with sleeved joint... but that is all history now.

I think Andy might still have one somewhere, either one we were storing for my other P38 or a development mould. It will be at Bundalene's place somewhere if he still has it. No harm in asking him though, he can only say no :)

I did buy one of those German/Polish snorkels ages ago. What a piece of rubbish. No instructions or fixings. Agree with HEYVJ, the pipe on it looks shonky and too small IMHO.

Personally, I am pretty damn impressed with what Martin has done on his at
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/200793-teaser-week-13.html#post2191887

Unlike Sean's, which looks great (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/179453-snorkel-kind-work-progress-8.html#post2022754), Martin's snorkel looks to be achievable for the average DIY'er.

Cheers, Paul.

[TheTree]

Continuing to research the snorkel issue, I have seen the attached pic a few times and to me it looks like a PUMA 200 Series diesel snorkel

AIR Snorkel KIT Land Rover Defender 200 Series 94 99 TDI 2 5L Diesel S500A | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Air-Snorkel-Kit-LAND-ROVER-Defender-200-Series-94-99-TDI-2-5L-Diesel-S500A-/281577075585?hash=item418f4d3381:g:ClwAAOSwQjNW9KI G)

Looks like it might be an option!

The main issue seems to the the angle of the snorkel is not quite right.

The second pic is apparently a modified Disco 1 snorkel but I can't find any other details about it.

Steve

[p38driver]

Anybody still searching for a snorkel found a terrafirma one listed on ebay

Sent from my SM-P550 using AULRO mobile app

[TheTree]

Nice find, it looks as if they may have manufactured a batch of them !

Steve

[hoges5]

I saw the that they had them listed on the terrafirma website - but they didn't have a picture of them.


The top looks a bit different to the others they have for discos, defenders etc.
They are part of their Southdown range

[TheTree]

It seems they have made a batch of them, there was an announcement on their BookFace page in April

https://www.facebook.com/Terrafirma4x4/posts/10154116616144603

The usual UK suppliers all have them on their websites now. Price is similar to the one from the US on eBay, around $380.00 landed.

I contacted Rovacraft and they don't have any in stock but are is getting price and availability for me overnight from the UK.

I am definitely going to get one of these

Steve

[redandy3575]

Dunno if this has been posted previously but I just saw it on the 'net tonight.

Lovely!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/06/698.jpg

ahh so that's where my downpipe ended up.