aluminium body?

[Wildduke]

Which defenders had an aluminum body? I know the series 3 had an aluminum body, does any of the defenders?

[blue_mini]

All of them do, the newer they are the more steel panels there are. Like doors, bonnet on the tdci ones.
Im not sure on the td5s.

[Loubrey]

All of them do, the newer they are the more steel panels there are. Like doors, bonnet on the tdci ones.
Im not sure on the td5s.

All the doors on a Td5 (at least the later ones as far as I know) and they added the steel bonnet to the Puma as blue_mini said.

The rest of the body remains aluminium to this day...

Cheers,

Lou

[Yorkshire_Jon]

About 2002 / 2003 the Td5 doors went to steel.

I have seen 2002 with steel and a 2003 with ally!

Easy to tell which is which. The ally doors have a cut & weld to get the door shaped to fit up against the roof/windscreen joins against the A pillar, the steel doors are rolled with no weld. Very obvious with two side by side.

R
J

Sent using Forum Runner

[BilboBoggles]

Actually only the door frame changed in my03, the skin remained alloy. Pre my03 the door frame was welded steel sections, after it moved to pressed steel, but all td5 still had alloy skins. The door skin was changed to steel in my07 for the puma. The frame remains the same. The rear door frame went to pressed steel in about my01 replacing the welded steel frame.
The steel skinned doors of the puma seem to be more durable than the alloy skin and less prone to rippling near the handle.

[goingbush]

might depend if they are South African or English ?
my MY05 110 has pressed steel frames, aluminium skins an the 4 passenger doors, Rear cargo door is all steel inc skin.
Bonnet is Aluminium skin over pressed steel frame.

[Loubrey]

We hired 2 no '06 Td5's in the UK for work and stuck magnetic company logos on the doors (sheet fridge magnet type) and they stuck well. Based on that I assumed the doors were steel skinned, but it might have been the frames or stiffeners allowing enough magnetic bond?.

To the OP, they were 100% aluminium bodied up to 1998 when the Td5 came out and the rear door (Safari Door) became steel. Some later Td5 models, depending on their country specification had their side doors changed to steel.

In 2007 the Tdci or Puma came out with all aluminium body except for the distinctive bonnet and all doors (sides and rear) in steel.

Cheers,

Lou

[Jacko44]

Is the roof steel on a puma?

[ericvv]

Nope, alu.

[Wildduke]

Thanks everyone!

[lump_a_charcoal]

Sorry for dredging up an old post, but on a 2012 Defender, the main panels are Al, but the frames are steel - is this correct?
Also the roof gutter must be steel also?

[Loubrey]

Everything is aluminium except for the bonnet and doors (front ones at least, I don't have second row doors), which on your vehicle is completely steel. They have slotted drain holes in the bottom to ensure no water trapped to rust.

Some stiffeners and things like seat belt mounts are plated steel which are all prone to bi-metallic corrosion. Keep a tube of marine compound (forgot the name) to use whenever you replace fittings. Buy it from your friendly boat shop.

There are no "frames" as such and the gutters are aluminium as well as they've been since the year dot.

Cheers,

Lou

[lump_a_charcoal]

Strange - I have some rust on the gutter, on the rear where a ladder would bolt on, and on the sills. Maybe these are strengthening panels?

[Loubrey]

On the outside? :eek:

The only steel anywhere near there is the rear seat belt mount and that doesn't go anywhere near the gutter.

Sure its not just steel swarf from other work? Photo would be handy.

Cheers,

Lou

[Grappler]

Keep a tube of marine compound (forgot the name) to use whenever you replace fittings. Buy it from your friendly boat shop.

Lou

Is it Duralac you are thinking about?

Brilliant stuff

[Red90]

Rain gutters are steel. Body cappings are steel. Bulkhead is steel.

[Loubrey]

Is it Duralac you are thinking about?

Brilliant stuff

Yep, that's the one. Thanks! :D

https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=151&item=59733&intAbsolutePage=1

I'm slowly but surely in the process rebuilding the 90 with copper grease and Duralac on all fittings and features as I go along. Swap to stainless bolts where possible and make sure there's no future corrosion...

Cheers,

Lou

[Loubrey]

Rain gutters are steel. Body callings are steel. Bulkhead is steel.

Agree with the body cappings and bulkhead, but not so sure about the gutters.

I've seen them damaged in the past (roofracks being pushed back through the rear corners) and those were certainly aluminium and part of the roof.

Cheers,

Lou

[Tombie]

Yep, that's the one. Thanks! :D

https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=151&item=59733&intAbsolutePage=1

I'm slowly but surely in the process rebuilding the 90 with copper grease and Duralac on all fittings and features as I go along. Swap to stainless bolts where possible and make sure there's no future corrosion...

Cheers,

Lou

Dont use Copper Grease with Stainless :o

[Loubrey]

Dont use Copper Grease with Stainless :o

Why...?

Not questioning the advice, just interested why it would be a problem. I have done so for years and not seen any adverse reactions.

Cheers,

Lou

[digger]

Why...?

Not questioning the advice, just interested why it would be a problem. I have done so for years and not seen any adverse reactions.

Cheers,

Lou

(stolen from elsewhere but I found it interesting!)

Torque Values

If the same materials are being fastened together, then they are assembled dry to the manufacturer's torque values - unless otherwise specified. In critical fasteners such as the axle nut that holds the rear wheel on superbikes, the spec calls for lubricating the threads prior to assembly. The torque spec assumes a lubricated thread. Read your manual.

In general, a thread treated with either an anti-seize or a lubricant requires a lower torque value (than a higher-friction dry thread) to create the same tension in the fastener. So, if you make a modification that changes a component material, such that anti-seize is now needed, you'll need to torque the fastener to a approximately 10% lower value to avoid over-tensioning the fastener (according to Machinery's Handbook, 25th ed.). A new torque wrench is usually accurate to ? 3%.

Galvanic Corrosion

The manufacturer uses a number of different metal alloys, plastics, and coatings - each selected for its cost, weight, strength, appearance, and corrosion resistance among other things. What also needed to be considered, is that when any two different metals touch each other, electricity flows between them (which is how a battery works), and the surface of the metal lower on the list (below) corrodes.

For example, when aluminum or magnesium are in contact with carbon or stainless steel, this galvanic action will corrode the aluminum or magnesium. So the approach is to use steel fasteners to fasten steel parts together, whenever possible.

One problem is that aluminum fasteners aren't very strong, so aluminum parts are held with steel fasteners, but in special ways to reduce corrosion. Carbon steel bolts threaded directly into aluminum is generally avoided for example.

Here's a list of some commonly-used metals. The farther apart (top to bottom) on the list the two materials are, the more corrosion that will occur to the material lower on the list when they are held in contact.

Gold
Graphite
Silver
18-8-3 Stainless steel, type 316 (passive)
18-8 Stainless steel, type 304 (passive)
Titanium
Nickel (passive)
Silver solder
Bronze
Copper
Brass
Nickel (active)
Tin
Lead
18-8-3 Stainless steel, type 316 (active) 18-8 Stainless steel, type 304 (active)
Cast iron
Mild steel
Aluminum 2024
Cadmium
Galvanized steel
Zinc (commonly used as a sacrificial anode in marine environments)
Magnesium alloys

One way to control this galvanic corrosion is to use metals closer to each other in the above list, or by electrically isolating metals from each other. Cadmium plating of steel fasteners for example, is used to reduce the metal dissimilarities with aluminum and magnesium. Paint and coatings are used to prevent metals from touching.

Keeping the two dissimilar metals dry will also slow the corrosion process but just the moisture in the air on a humid day is enough to cause a problem.

Anti-Seize Products

If a fastener won't get disassembled for long periods of time, it's a candidate for using an anti-seize compound during assembly. There are three formulations widely-available based on copper, aluminum or nickel.

The way anti-sieze compounds work is by placing a third dissimilar metal between the two base metals. So the corrosion of a thread in a magnesium part caused by a titanium bolt is reduced by an intermediate copper-rich or nickel-rich thread coating. The aluminum anti-seize compound is for use between (say) stainless steel and magnesium.

The grease in anti-seize products prevents water vapor and liquid water from entering the joint as well, thus preventing galvanic corrosion

[Loubrey]

Thanks Digger,

I appreciate a bolt that needs specific toque values to work properly would have an issue with a copper grease type anti seize compound due to the reduction of friction, but I don't use stainless bolts on anything that is "mechanically critical".

I've got stainless bolts on the door hinges, bonnet hinges and safari door hinges and I've over the years always used copper grease to avoid bi-metallic corrosion between the aluminium and SS for all the reasons in your post and they work perfectly at that. Where steel plates and Ali meet I use Duralac and I've not seen corrosion in any of those parts either.

Just interested if there is a chemical reason that SS and copper shouldn't be used together as posted by Tombie.

Cheers,

Lou

[Grappler]

Swap to stainless bolts where possible and make sure there's no future corrosion...

Cheers,

Lou

Be careful replacing steel bolts, especially in structural parts like door hinges, with stainless
I thought about this but decided against as the ss kits with torx heads are lower strength grade than the steel originals

[Loubrey]

Hi Grappler,

You're right, the bolts are certainly not as strong as the original steels.

I still however believe they are more than strong enough for the hinges, but I certainly won't use them anywhere near moving mechanical parts and recovery or towbar fixing points.

Add to that the brown streaks of weeping rusty hinge bolts and the SS option is still a good option IMO. Again, I've fitted them to all my UK DEfenders as well as my current one here in WA and I've not experienced any issues with them.

Cheers,

Lou

[JDNSW]

There are very few places in the body where the lower strength of SS is a concern. This is simply because there are very few places in the body where the required strength is anywhere near that of the size bolts used. Possibly the main bolts holding the base of the bulkhead to the chassis outriggers, and the ones holding the steering column to the bulkhead, but I can't think of any others.

However, as the table in digger's post shows, there are very good reasons for not having stainless steel in contact with aluminium - and using a copper or nickel based antiseize is no help. In marine work, where stainless fasteners and aluminium alloys are extensively used, nylon washers and sleeves are always used to insulate the stainless from the alloy, and this practice should be always followed on Landrovers.

Of course, the hinge bolts are not normally in contact with alloy, although they will certainly encourage the steel hinges and door frames and bulkhead to rust rather than the bolts themselves. But all of these bits are easier to keep a continuous film of paint on, where the bolt heads you can just about guarantee that any paint film will be broken by the tools used to tighten them, and by the threads of the nut.

John

[jackdef90]

Why...?

Not questioning the advice, just interested why it would be a problem. I have done so for years and not seen any adverse reactions.

Cheers,

Lou


It CAN cause some form of abrasion, I don't know exactly how I had a chief engineer tell me off once, but at work we generally use molykote on ss , I usually just put a smear of go grease on bolts to stop them from seizing.

[Red90]

Agree with the body cappings and bulkhead, but not so sure about the gutters.

I've seen them damaged in the past (roofracks being pushed back through the rear corners) and those were certainly aluminium and part of the roof.


Galvanized steel on mine (1991). I checked with a magnetic before posting just to be positive.

[JDNSW]

Galvanized steel on mine (1991). I checked with a magnetic before posting just to be positive.

Yes. The original 90/110 design had all panels alloy, with galvanised steel gutters, body capping and door trim, inner guards, and ungalvanised steel bulkhead, seatbox, 'C' pillar and sills, and assorted brackets. (Early Series used a lot more both alloy (radiator support, seat box) and more galvanising (sills, door frames in Series 1) but this had already decreased by late Series 3.)

The galvanised door trim was dropped in 1987 when the push button door lock was introduced and the galvanising was dropped altogether in the early 90s.

Through Defender production more and more steel panels have been introduced, as outlined in earlier posts.

John

[Loubrey]

Magnetic check and confirmation as well:

2010 Defender

Bulk head - Steel
Doors - Steel
Safari Door - Steel
Hinges - Steel
Body Capping Steel
Bonnet - Steel

Everything else aluminium. The roof and gutters form one piece (except for the obvious joints) and is fully aluminium. As per my previous post I was pretty much sure the roof gutters on '96 and '98 Defenders were aluminium and I've just confirmed it on the 2010 as well.

They must changed the roof design for the 300Tdi if a 1991 still has steel gutters. Back to confusion about rust in the gutter of a new Defender...?

Cheers,

Lou

[Laurie 123]

Which defenders had an aluminum body? I know the series 3 had an aluminum body, does any of the defenders?


Hi there i have been checking on this one myself.The component is actually called BIRMABRIGHT (AA5152) which is a combination of other metals but basically Aluminium same as the ALCOA truck wheels The later models is still Aluminium but not as strong as Birmabright. This applies to ALL land Rovers

[Wallyb]

Magnetic check and confirmation as well:

2010 Defender

Bulk head - Steel
Doors - Steel
Safari Door - Steel
Hinges - Steel
Body Capping Steel
Bonnet - Steel

Lou

Yep - just did a walk around with a magnet on my 2012 and concur. Just to add roof and gutter are Al..

I was surprised that the bracket that sticks out for the rear number plate and the plate next to it - both which a riveted on - were steel

[numpty]

I had a 2006 MY Td5 110, Pommie built and all of the panels including all 5 doors were aluminium.

[Dervish]

On more recent Defenders the gutter is plain steel - you see them rusting where people have had racks then removed them. I'd say the changeover was somewhere around the start of the Puma era. Before that they were always galvanised (bare during the 110 era, painted over during the Defender era).

They are coated with a very thick layer of hard-drying sealant to stop the roof leaking at the join, that is perhaps what is stopping your magnets from working.