EAS, compressor almost constant running

[tasi devil]

So, this vehicle has only just gotten back on the road, & this was a problem previously after we rebuilt the EAS with Bilsteins & Gen III airbags.
I put a Thomas aftermarket compressor in, a new Driver & Pressure switch, a Bypass system & a rebuilt EAS Valve block.
Have since re-installed my rebuilt original Valve block following Pauls detailed instructions (thanks Paul). there are no airleaks around the valve block or bypass system, it is slow to come up to pressure but doesn't appear to lose much overnight.
all these components would barely have done a 1,000K's.
due to dramas with the previous mechanics & me not having a laptop yet, i can't run my Faultmate, so i'm loath to get under it or try & manage the system manually through the Bypass

My question is, could the almost constant compressor running be caused by a slow air leak @ the air bag connection ?
it's going to Gold Star automotive (LR mechanics) for an Oil change, Idle adjustment, HEVAC Book symbol diagnosis :( on Tuesday.
should i get them to deflate the system & check the connections, 'O' rings etc.?

............tasi

[redandy3575]

Mate, mine does a similar thing when you start the car the compressor runs for about a minute then shuts off for about 15 seconds then starts up again runs for a further 30 seconds then shuts off again and does this cycle over about 4 to 5 times then shuts off and settles down. I've checked high and low, sprayed just about anything the that bubbles all over the entire air system and cannot find a a leak anywhere. In the morning the springs raise instantly with no delay, plenty of pressure in the tank, no faults show up on the dash or the eas kicker, the suspension simply does everything it should, even drove like this all the way to cape York and back a 9000 km round trip and still behaves the same. I've come to the conclusion that this behaviour is the norm. The only other time compressor kicks in again is after the car has lowered and raised again. I'm guessing its the thin air gauge line not sending enough pressure back to keep the comp turned off for the first few cycles.

[33chinacars]

Could still be a small air leak. I had to replace one of my air lines. It had rubbed through in a place that was not easy to find . Could only be found after pulling out air line

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Mine is similar when cold. As redandy says - it'll kick in and out for the first 5mins then it won't run at all until I change settings. Car raises quickly when cold. Mine is left in high every other week and is still sitting there when I return home. No leaks in my system!

[Grumbles]

Mate, mine does a similar thing when you start the car the compressor runs for about a minute then shuts off for about 15 seconds then starts up again runs for a further 30 seconds then shuts off again and does this cycle over about 4 to 5 times then shuts off and settles down.

It does seem like it is a RR 'thing'. My LSE behaves similarly and it has a different air pump to the P38.

[tasi devil]

Mate, mine does a similar thing when you start the car the compressor runs for about a minute then shuts off for about 15 seconds then starts up again runs for a further 30 seconds then shuts off again and does this cycle over about 4 to 5 times then shuts off and settles down.

it's the same behaviour red, but, the problem is this thing doesn't settle down, wether it's a trip into town (10-15 min) or a trip on the highway.
no faults show up (have a EAS Kicker) has good air pressure when built up. should be enough to allow some changes in height before compressor kicks back in. all settings are within 1cm of each other.
could it be something electronic within the computer causing this rather than 'o' rings valves & line leakages.
it's ****ing me off & what's more it's annoying the missus..........we don't want that now do we :(

btw. had all the front steering done on Thursday, ball joints tie rods etc. it steers 'beeyoutifull' now

.........tasi

[TheTree]

HEVAC Book symbol diagnosis :(

............tasi

Hi Mate

Have you replaced RL7 in the fuse box? If not that may fix your HEVAC "book symbol" You need a 40amp normally open DIODE protected relay. Hella make one, #3053, but i had to cut the built in mounting tab off.

Ten bucks and the "book symbol" has gone.

I have actually replaced all my relays, since they are all pretty aged by now!

HTH
Steve

[mtb_gary]

it's the same behaviour red, but, the problem is this thing doesn't settle down, wether it's a trip into town (10-15 min) or a trip on the highway.
no faults show up (have a EAS Kicker) has good air pressure when built up. should be enough to allow some changes in height before compressor kicks back in. all settings are within 1cm of each other.
could it be something electronic within the computer causing this rather than 'o' rings valves & line leakages.
it's ****ing me off & what's more it's annoying the missus..........we don't want that now do we :(

btw. had all the front steering done on Thursday, ball joints tie rods etc. it steers 'beeyoutifull' now

.........tasi

Tasi

Did you do the front end yourself? I know the feeling once all the parts are replaced! You wonder how you ever drove with the sloppy steering :cool:

Gary

[tasi devil]

Hi Mate

Have you replaced RL7 in the fuse box? If not that may fix your HEVAC "book symbol" You need a 40amp normally open DIODE protected relay. Hella make one, #3053, but i had to cut the built in mounting tab off.

Ten bucks and the "book symbol" has gone.

I have actually replaced all my relays, since they are all pretty aged by now!

HTH
Steve

thanks muchly Steve, have tried that. couldn't get the Hella one (btw part # is 3053H) got a Narva one as an alternative part # 68000BL.
got a feeling it may be Blend motors stuck, anyway first things first, sort this compressor running .
it pumps all the way up to 1,000 Kpa, but still wants to run constantly shuts down for 5-10 seconds then runs for up to a minute, had a look before starting it today & it was down @ 100 Kpa .

[tasi devil]

Tasi

Did you do the front end yourself? I know the feeling once all the parts are replaced! You wonder how you ever drove with the sloppy steering :cool:

Gary
Nah Gary , i bought all the parts then had a local steering specialist do it.
his Dad before him & he have done all my vehicles. just as well as one of the ball joints was a real bitch to get out, he had all the gear & knowledge & still took him ages

[TheTree]

thanks muchly Steve, have tried that. couldn't get the Hella one (btw part # is 3053H) got a Narva one as an alternative part # 68000BL.

From what i have read it is not a good ides to put an uprotected (narva 68000) or even a resistor protected relay in a P38. The relays must be diode protected.

That is why I went for the Hella, since Narva don't list a diode protected Normally Open 4 pin relay.

It will probably be OK for the HEVAC relays, but i would not put an unprotected relay anywhere else in the P38.

Regards
Steve

[tasi devil]

From what i have read it is not a good ides to put an uprotected (narva 68000) or even a resistor protected relay in a P38. The relays must be diode protected.

That is why I went for the Hella, since Narva don't list a diode protected Normally Open 4 pin relay.

It will probably be OK for the HEVAC relays, but i would not put an unprotected relay anywhere else in the P38.

Regards
Steve

Steve, it said in their Narva cataldog that it was diode protected, but seeing it hasn't worked i'll put the old one back in. next week i'll source a Hella one as you suggested

[tasi devil]

okay been fiddling with the EAS between other stuff, pulled the filter off the exhaust port while compressor was running to see if the Diaphragm was leaking (it wasn't) but when it stopped there was a sharp rush of compresed air out of the exhaust port (it has a new orange diaphragm) & the tank lost app. 200Kpa then the compressor started again :mad:.
so got another job to do first then i'm pulling the whole bludy thing apart again

[TheTree]

Steve, it said in their Narva cataldog that it was diode protected, but seeing it hasn't worked i'll put the old one back in. next week i'll source a Hella one as you suggested

It's kinda weird Narva have diode protected 5 pin normally open diode protected but not 4 pin

Normal Open 4 & 5 - Products - Narva (http://www.narva.com.au/products/browse/normal-open-4-5)

If the new relay hasn't worked i think your assumption that it is the blend motors which are the problem is most likely correct.

The protection on the relays does not make them operate any differently, but it does suppress the voltage spikes which are generated every time a relay switches and the contacts arc.

Resistor protected relays could be thought of as "soft protected" and diode as "hard protected" i.e. the diode protection is instantaneous.

Since a lot of these relays switch electronics in the P38, the last thing any of us want is for the BECM etc to be hit with voltage spikes

Good luck with it all

Regards
Steve

[tasi devil]

Steve, you are correct, lesson learnt ...... even when you've written down what's required & given it to the Salesperson who confers with their boss about the alternative :mad:

So, been checking for leaks ... none on any airbag connections or into valveblock/bypass
pulled it all out changed over Pressure switch, put old Diaphragm back in rebuilt Exhaust valve solenoid
still takes a long time to come up to pressure, still doing it in stages & drops 100-200kpa each time compressor stops & the body does a little shimmy.
can understand why people go to coils :wasntme: & forsake the most incredible ride on/off road

[redandy3575]

Could still be a small air leak. I had to replace one of my air lines. It had rubbed through in a place that was not easy to find . Could only be found after pulling out air line

Gary

There could very well be a tiny leak somewhere, but I'd be stump to know where it is.:confused::confused::confused::confused::confus ed:

[redandy3575]

So, been checking for leaks ... none on any airbag connections or into valveblock/bypass
pulled it all out changed over Pressure switch, put old Diaphragm back in rebuilt Exhaust valve solenoid
still takes a long time to come up to pressure, still doing it in stages & drops 100-200kpa each time compressor stops & the body does a little shimmy.
can understand why people go to coils :wasntme: & forsake the most incredible ride on/off road

Done exactly what you did except the diaphragm which is the orange one. I'm telling ya, it's got to be the norm, as everyone else's do the same. Another thing I found in the past when your ride calibration is out, this tends to muck around with the compressor also. I went to a perfect flat Carpark armed with my kicker and measure chart and re-calibrated all the ride height carefully which made the car ride so much better and the height settings adjust swiftly and settles the compressor only slightly.

[superquag]

At risk of sounding like a stuck record.... My Event Horizon will sometimes have internal conniptions, won't make up it's mind...and the pump stays on for long times... (feels like several minutes) with only short gaps between cycles.

There is a possibility that the pressure switch is, or temporarily becomes too sensitive..
The probability is... the EAS computer is inherently unreliable/unstable at times. - Why am I not surprised at this thought ?

Normally I leave it set on "Standard Height" which affords a measure of safety in case the system faults... At least it will freeze at a 'useful' height.
I've also installed 4 taps and 4 filler valves as a last-resort Self-Rescue/Bypass system.

Look on the bright side, our rising stress-levels are assuaged by the constant massaging vibrations....:p

Mine has an intermittant height sensor, which may be a % of the problem.

-The intake filter was rotted out, and has been replaced by my home-brew media. Works ok, but very devious place to hide it...:eek:

James

'95 Classic Vogue SE, with ARNOTTS 'bags, re-built valve block & compressor. Working EAS and Cruise Control. - but don't mention the sun-roof....

[tasi devil]

At risk of sounding like a stuck record.... My Event Horizon will sometimes have internal conniptions, won't make up it's mind...and the pump stays on for long times... (feels like several minutes) with only short gaps between cycles.

There is a possibility that the pressure switch is, or temporarily becomes too sensitive..
The probability is... the EAS computer is inherently unreliable/unstable at times. - Why am I not surprised at this thought ?
Normally I leave it set on "Standard Height" which affords a measure of safety in case the system faults... At least it will freeze at a 'useful' height.
I've also installed 4 taps and 4 filler valves as a last-resort Self-Rescue/Bypass system.

Look on the bright side, our rising stress-levels are assuaged by the constant massaging vibrations....:p
Mine has an intermittant height sensor, which may be a % of the problem.

-The intake filter was rotted out, and has been replaced by my home-brew media. Works ok, but very devious place to hide it...:eek:

James

'95 Classic Vogue SE, with ARNOTTS 'bags, re-built valve block & compressor. Working EAS and Cruise Control. - but don't mention the sun-roof....

James, am thinking you may be on the money regarding the EAS computer, & as it's going in to have the HEVAC diagnosed tomorrow, i'll ask them to check all the EAS values (heights, valves open/closed) at the same time. all height sensors are new, wondering if the system is confused ? as we have the Standard/Off road heights increased due to GenIII's/Bilsteins
re "constant massaging vibrations" ......... it's supposed to be my wifes vehicle :) she doesn't need that much massaging :angel:

.........tasi

[superquag]

Another thing that made a differance on other items in my EH.... plug and un-plug (and re-plugin) the EAS computer and everything associated with it, pump, valve block etc etc. Do it a zillion times... Connectors that don't connect are not unknown quality in Range Rovers of all vintages...:eek:

[tasi devil]

Superquag, i will try that for sure.
BUT have just got it back home from the Mechanics they reset the idle slightly ,changed oil/filter (500k on new motor) & investigated HEVAC & EAS.

It appears the Right hand blend motor is stuffed , so really need to do all three if it's coming apart, they gave me a verbal quote ( & i like these guys) but think i may be spending a weekend on my knees swearing sometime soon.

they re-calibrated the Access/Standard height settings to normal, lifting Extended by approx. 54mm, all other diagnostic checks were okay.
SO it appears the problem with Compressor running is possibly one of the Non Return Valves within the valve block being stuffed. they have a new EAS Valve block to change over as a diagnostic solution , so that will be the next step. if that works looks like i'll be sourcing a new valve block as those three little buggers are not available as a replaceable part. i haven't heard of any solutions for those either.

talking to a mate today, he knows a bloke that's got/had a really neat Series II short wheel base, :D:twisted:......aaaah! the simple life !

....................tasi

[tasi devil]

Wahoo it's fixed.:D
it went into Hard Fault after a run , back to the mechanics, they cleared all the faults (n/c [thumbsupbig]) wth a freely given assesment of where the isues may be, the Driver unit, the exhaust components on the block.
so, once more pull it out,
put a relatively new Driver unit on
opened up the NRV end, cleaned everything & made sure they were all in alignment as i closed it down, torqued the bolts to a slightly higher setting,
opened up the diaphgram end & replaced the original diaphragm (which on close inspection still appeared okay) with a new orange one, torqued bolts down to a sligthly higher setting
pulled both exhaust solenoids off (both ends of top row) & cleaned again thoroughly, replaced one thin o-ring on outside of shaft which appeared damaged (duh! it was new) put back together with no grease.
re-installed .....it's behaving perfectly now as is the Compressor, moving between all settings freely as it was designed to do.
ran it for 45min on the highway tonight each way (hope i didn't get a ticket), with a 30-40 min stint in 4x4 extended over rough ground in between hgwy runs.
these things a fricking unbelievably good on & off road when the EAS behaves.
also looks like the Mark Adams Tornado chips have settled because in Manual & particularly in Sport mode this thing gets into it.
i can hand it back to the cook now (maybe) & keep her happy.
thanks everyone for your help much appreciated.

..............tasi

[mtb_gary]

Wahoo it's fixed.:D
it went into Hard Fault after a run , back to the mechanics, they cleared all the faults (n/c [thumbsupbig]) wth a freely given assesment of where the isues may be, the Driver unit, the exhaust components on the block.
so, once more pull it out,
put a relatively new Driver unit on
opened up the NRV end, cleaned everything & made sure they were all in alignment as i closed it down, torqued the bolts to a slightly higher setting,
opened up the diaphgram end & replaced the original diaphragm (which on close inspection still appeared okay) with a new orange one, torqued bolts down to a sligthly higher setting
pulled both exhaust solenoids off (both ends of top row) & cleaned again thoroughly, replaced one thin o-ring on outside of shaft which appeared damaged (duh! it was new) put back together with no grease.
re-installed .....it's behaving perfectly now as is the Compressor, moving between all settings freely as it was designed to do.
ran it for 45min on the highway tonight each way (hope i didn't get a ticket), with a 30-40 min stint in 4x4 extended over rough ground in between hgwy runs.
these things a fricking unbelievably good on & off road when the EAS behaves.
also looks like the Mark Adams Tornado chips have settled because in Manual & particularly in Sport mode this thing gets into it.
i can hand it back to the cook now (maybe) & keep her happy.
thanks everyone for your help much appreciated.

..............tasi

Hi Tasi

It sounds like it's going to be hard going handing the keys back to SHMBO ;)

Gary