Advantages of Gen 3 Airbags

[intheozone]

Hi

First off sorry to the WA guys I did not know you went on a trip this weekend or I would have tagged along (next time) Instead I went down to the Dwellingup area and after a good day out and a far amount of bush bashing I got a hole in my Drivers Side rear airbag:mad:

Is it worth replacing all four airbags to gen3? or to save money should I just try and source a replacement? I was made redundant last month so cash is tight. (or if you know of any jobs going?:D)

What are the big advantages of the Gen 3's vs stock? Does anyone in Australia Stock them? Where is the best place to go?


Cheers all

[Keithy P38]

You'll pay the same buying direct from Arnotts as you will in Aus. $1k to your door, probably less now seeing as the dollar is good!

Better ride, thicker bag, extra length for wheel travel purposes, wider usable inflation area (about 1.5 times the diameter when inflated) - all translates to a more comfortable and less bouncy ride. I would never go standard bags again after buying Gen III's, there is simply no comparison!

Plus the extra thickness also translates to better durability (think long-term quality).

Keithy

[PeterAllen]

Given your unfortunate situation on the work front and if money is a concern you can get a full set of dunlops from island 4 x 4 in the UK for a lot less. When the tide turns you can always replace with the arnotts g 3 and have a decent back up set All comes down to cash at hand.

[PaulP38a]

Agree with the comments above.

I like the Gen 3's a lot, and recommend them to anyone that asks. I have used them on both my off-road and on-road P38's.

To reiterate one of Keithy's pro's for the Gen 3's... it is the extra travel in them that sets them apart, meaning they are more forgiving in articulation than standard bags/springs. Do not confuse extra travel with extra height ;)

Having said that, I see merit in Peter's suggestion to get standard bags for now and save your pennies for when you can afford the approx $1k to buy them direct from Arnott Industries in Florida. I'd suggest just getting the rear pair instead of all four, assuming your existing front bags are ok.

[intheozone]

it is the extra travel in them that sets them apart, meaning they are more forgiving in articulation than standard bags/springs. Do not confuse extra travel with extra height ;)



So what you are saying is that it is not wise to mess with the height settings?

I take my P38 off road quite a bit and tackle some of the tougher tracks that unmodified Jap cars drive past. Extra lift could be useful. Particularly as I have put slightly bigger Mud tyres on (255/70R16) Do you not recommend this?

Who to buy from in Australia?

[Keithy P38]

If you want lift you can tweak your height settings with EAS unlock or any of the diagnostic tools available. I used my faultmate to gain an extra inch in standard and high. You could also add an inch or so to your height sensors and get it that way.

I did this when I had standard bags on with no issues, with the gen III's there is heaps of room to move. As you do, I tackle the harder tracks - all the time (my P38 is my weekend warrior) and I'm running the 255/70/16 km2's.

Keithy

[benji]

Had exactly the same problem myself over the weekend. We were up the High Country and the rear right bag didn't like the cold and started to leak.
The cheapest way if they fit is to get the replacement bellows from island4x4; they're listed for the classic though Air Spring Rear Rubber Bellow NTC9820DPH Island 4x4 - Specialists in Land Rover and Range Rover Parts and accessories for all models. UK and worldwide mail order. (http://www.island-4x4.co.uk/spring-rear-rubber-bellow-dunlop-ntc9820dph-p-900.html)

Airbagman in QLD is quite expencive at $195 +$18 delivery to Bendigo for each bellow.

You can get gen3's cheaper than a thousand. Gen III Front Air Ride Suspension Springs Front Rear | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Gen-III-Front-Air-Ride-Suspension-Springs-Front-Rear-/261177663913?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ccf66e1a9)
They're not listed as an arnott product though....

I'm sort of in the same spot as yourself. I want eventually to go the gen3, and the +2inch britpart shocks. But; head gaskets to do first - with a go-fast cam :)

[RoverHse]

Hi,

I managed to get a set of 4 airbags direct from Arnott for under $1000 and delivered to my door in Perth WA in just 4 days.

[benji]

It seems there are a few manafacturers doing a gen 3 style air spring now. Westar, Touring Tech, and others. - Or are they just Arnott sold under a different brand...?\

Arnott also sell replacement bladers - https://www.arnottindustries.com/part_LAND_ROVER_yid4_pid22_gid94.html

[PaulP38a]

I got advice a while back that unless it is branded as Arnott's it is not Arnott's. Seems that the Chinese copiers have taken notice of the market for air springs and "borrowed" the Gen3 name.
Same thing happened to RSW Solutions Rover All Comms diagnostic tool. The copiers were selling the tool, but the unfortunate souls who bought them could get no support or install the RSW software as they purchased non-genuine items.

As for me, I will be sticking with the genuine Arnott bags... at least until I see a compelling reason to go to another genuine manufacturers product, not a copier.

[RoverHse]

I have also come across some cheap G3 airbags on e-bay. When I queried the source, they confirmed back that they were not the Arnott bags, but their own "brand".

I got mine from Arnotts for under $1000, delivered in 4 days.

I'd suggest contacting them directly for a quote. The quoted amount was lower than the web listed prices.

[superquag]

When I replaced the Classic with the latest ARNOTTS, I bought direct from the US. Excellent time & cost of shipping.

I'd only consider 'clone' bellows if I was staying with the original assembly... and if they were cheap enough. - IMHO, not worth the risk for a fake Gen 2or 3.

[FANTOM P38]

Hi all,
something you all forgot to mentiion re genuine Armotts GenIII bags is that they come with lifetime warranty!! BIG PLUS! one of mine happenend to pop out of crimp ring and was replaced imeadiately at no cost so if this were to happen with anonene elses bags the GenIII's would have already paid for themselves. Buy right first time - always works!
Martin :D

[FANTOM P38]

Feeling a bit dislecsic tonight -ha ha!

[p38arover]

You'll pay the same buying direct from Arnotts as you will in Aus. $1k to your door, probably less now seeing as the dollar is good!

Better ride, thicker bag, extra length for wheel travel purposes, wider usable inflation area (about 1.5 times the diameter when inflated) - all translates to a more comfortable and less bouncy ride. I would never go standard bags again after buying Gen III's, there is simply no comparison!

Plus the extra thickness also translates to better durability (think long-term quality).

Keithy

We fitted Gen 3 bags to mine today. I feel the ride was harsher than standard with the Bilsteins I have. The price was right, though. I was given the bags.

[TheTree]

We fitted Gen 3 bags to mine today. I feel the ride was harsher than standard with the Bilsteins I have. The price was right, though. I was given the bags.

Ron

If you decide the ride is too harsh, I am happy to try out the GEN 3 bags with my britpart foam call shocks :angel:

Steve

[wayneg]

We fitted Gen 3 bags to mine today. I feel the ride was harsher than standard with the Bilsteins I have. The price was right, though. I was given the bags.

Ron when I reinstated the EAS on my car I originally fitted a set of Std airsprings. The ride was bouncy to say the least, the shocks are on their last legs, maybe because of the coil springs. I have since fitted Gen 3`s and things are a whole lot firmer hence my decision to fit a new set of bog std shocks and not anything uprated. I am running on 255 55 18`s at the mo which give a harder ride over 16`s. Once I get the new shocks my set of 265 75 16`s will be going on.

[p38arover]

My Bilstein shocks are less than 6000 km old. I just found the page on rangerovers.net about the design of Gen 3 and how they are firmer at normal ride height. Maybe that's what I'm noticing.

I shall have to try the car over a local speed hump. With the old standard rear springs, the car would bottom out as if the springs were too soft.

I have a set of new standard rear springs in the garage.

[FANTOM P38]

My Bilstein shocks are less than 6000 km old. I just found the page on rangerovers.net about the design of Gen 3 and how they are firmer at normal ride height. Maybe that's what I'm noticing.

I shall have to try the car over a local speed hump. With the old standard rear springs, the car would bottom out as if the springs were too soft.

I have a set of new standard rear springs in the garage.

Spot on Ron they designed the bags to work opposite to originals in that they are firm in lower settings & soft in higher setting. Which is what you really need! ;)

[p38arover]

Spot on Ron they designed the bags to work opposite to originals in that they are firm in lower settings & soft in higher setting. Which is what you really need! ;)

Actually, I don't.

I don't go off road. I want comfort on road. Whoever claimed the Rangies give that magic carpet ride must have never ridden in one.

[Hoges]

I wrote to Arnott Inc some months ago suggesting that they might consider releasing the Gen 3 design with reduced spring rates at normal height to reduce the harshness on broken bitumen and corrugations... they replied that they no longer did "special orders"...

I have the bog standard air springs and shocks. I recently replaced the worn Cooper H/Ts with the Bridgestone D697 (240/70/16). Obviously the ride over bumps is still somewhat muted because the tread is thick and rubber still soft. I was interested in others' comments about the ability of the BritPart foam cell dampers to reduce compression shock. Would seem they let the air spring do its job compression-wise and compensate by increasing the rebound effects... interesting.

PS: I've mentioned this previously (I think) but my front bags have both Ford and LR embossed logos and part numbers and are sealed with a crimp. Apparently they are specified for "hot climates". They also call out a different front damper part number...but they are very difficult to get hold of and I have no idea how they vary, if by much at all, from the standard front shock.

[Keithy P38]

Actually, I don't.

I don't go off road. I want comfort on road. Whoever claimed the Rangies give that magic carpet ride must have never ridden in one.

What's your other drive Ron?

I regularly drive hiluxes and 100/200 series tojo's at work, and even our Dmax at home. Compared to all of them, the P38 is a magic carpet!

And Hoges, I emailed Arnotts a few months back asking if they'd consider a longer bellow and slightly longer piston for those of us who are keen on travel and keeping tyres on terra-firma. I got the same "auto-response" - we no longer do custom orders...

Slack...

Cheers
Keithy

[p38arover]

What's your other drive Ron?

2009 Subaru Turbo Forester.

[TheTree]

Hi

Mine has Gen II's fitted and when I changed the shocks the ride became a little firmer. The original shocks were pretty shot and I had the bouncy castle effect happening.

The whole car feels much tighter and much nicer to drive. While not exactly Magic Carpet it rides better than pretty much anything else I get into!

Interesting that the Gen III's are actually firmer on normal setting

Steve

[davidsonsm]

You need a jag if you're after that wafting along sensation.

[Hoges]

The BIL recently sold their elderly Prado...had nearly 400,00 km on the original 2.7L petrol engine /drivetrain. Now it was VERY noisy in the cabin from diff/gearbox whine, however, dare I say it, the suspension performance over corrugations etc was very good. The ride was not bouncy, it was compliant, steered well in corners. Road imperfections/corrugations didn't cause scuttle shake.. perhaps it was the control arm bushes and chassis-body mounts. Whatever, the vibration/harshness was very well damped.

My understanding is that springs can be built to have varying rates depending on the load/shock, whereas the P38 standard airbags are fairly linear. Perhaps this is the "problem"...NO I do not want coils on my P38!;):angel:

[p38arover]

I'd like to drive. one after the other, a P38A on coils and one on air springs. Ditto for a Classic.

I think I preferred the ride on my coiler classic to that of the P38A.

The P38A is, however, much quieter than my '86 classic was.

[benji]

It is possible to tune an aispring to be rising, constant, or even a falling rate spring.
I felt the original springs were too floppy at the front on hwy mode, and couldn't control the weight.
But the arnott springs rise in their spring rate quite rapidly, giving a more 'dumpy' spring.
I think a shock that had slightly heavier rebound valving would suit the spring better. Unfortunately for you Ron, the bilstiens are known for having very strong bump valving.
But they aren't like that fully loaded, and even when fully loaded the handling is amazing on hwy mode!!!

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