Alternator not charging adequately (Thor 4.6 150A)

[glenhendry]

I have a very big 950CCA 180RC century battery (86ZMF (http://www.centurybatteries.com.au/search/index.php/batteries/ID-71)) and it is failing to start the car 13 months of age (again (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=1612277#post1610608)). This time I believe that there is a better reason.

I have a cool battery monitor (http://www.sidewinder.com.au/page161.html) that i have been using (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/164597-dual-battery-monitor-install.html)to watch the charging voltage across both batteries via this (http://www.sidewinder.com.au/page79.html) isolator.

I always used to have good charging figures (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/142647-battery-failure-after-13-months.html#post1610870), but recently it has reduced to 13.5-13.6v with engine running. That is not enough, as the electrical sticky bible (http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/7-range-rover-mark-ii-p38/28663-sticky-electrical-troubleshooting-updated-2010-a.html) insists on 14.2-14.4. I notice it tends to reduce as things underbonnet heat up, which may indicate regulator failure? I should also note that I have brand new alt->batt cable with new terminal and doubled up earth cables.

Supercheap wanted $899 for the new Alternator, so I want to try a new regulator like Hoges suggests. Rave tells me that I have a Bosch NC90/150 alternator, but I am having trouble finding the regulator for it. Any ideas? Ebay seller suggests this one (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/280570782205#ht_3037wt_1037), and this brush set (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/280570782205#ht_3037wt_1037). I am not sure a non-genuine part is a good idea here.
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[TheTree]

Hi

I would try burson auto parts, they have staff who actually know things about cars ;)

I have no affiliation with them, but they are often cheaper than supercrap and certainly better informed

Steve

[glenhendry]

Burson quoted $820 for the alternator and $240 for the regulator. He was more helpful though. These aren't cheap bits!

[Hoges]

Britishparts UK have a Thor P38 alternator 150A (ERR6413) for less than A$200

Electrical | Range Rover P38A | British Parts UK (http://britishparts.co.uk/t/range-rover/range-rover-p38a/electrical)

The regulator comes with brushes built in... Bosch part number 1 197 311 549
Another number on the rear of the SCR casing is EL14V

none of the ebay cross references support this number...

got to take SWMBO to a 12.30 med appt... will chase up my receipt later. Unlikely you'll get "new"OEM... even LR parts people offering only factory reco units for this particular Bosch unit...

cheers

[Hoges]

IIRC this is the bloke I bought a replacement regulator from
Bosch Alternator Voltage Regulator BHA Landrover | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bosch-Alternator-Voltage-Regulator-BHA-Landrover-/230955466037?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35c604bd35&vxp=mtr)

Postage was less than $10 and arrived within 10 days...

cheers

[glenhendry]

Thanks Hoges, looks like that alternator model you mention (ERR6413) supercedes the ERR5834 (Bosch 0123520022) installed in my MY2000. ERR6413 = Bosch number 0-123-510-073.

MR automotive ERR6413 - $1050 (genuine), $495 (aftermarket).
Burson cant get regulator 1 197 311 549 - Bosch says none in Oz.
Supercheap $220 for regulator 1197311549.
Supercheap $920 for alternator 0-123-510-073.

Good link here (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/136044-bosch-alt-brush-replacement.html#post1548720) with bosch part numbers from wayneg.

More good info from here (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/archive/index.php't-64631.html):
The Bosch AL0807N is the same as a Land Rover ERR6413, which is the same as a Bosch 0-123-510-073, which is the same as the alternator referenced by Lester as 13812.
These numbers all reference the same alternator. It is one hundred percent new, by any of these numbers, unless deliberately sold as a used part.
The Bosch AL0807X is a cheaper, reconditioned model. It is in every way the same, except it is not one hundred percent new.

[Hoges]

I doubt there have ever been stocks of the regulators avaiable from Bosch in Australia... got similar story when mine played up a couple of yrs ago.

A wholesaler in the UK claims to have immediate availability of the genuine Bosch regs. for GBP53.60 (no mention of VAT...)

Wood Auto Supplies Ltd :: VRG46472 (http://www.woodauto.com/Component.aspx?Ref=VRG46472)

Triode's US$35 offering from ebay is an exact copy of the OEM part.

Provided the bearings are in good condition and there's no evidence of diode problems, I'd be surprised if your alternator needs anything further than a new regulator (20 min replacement---incl cup of coffee!)...

[wayneg]

You can still get aftermarket complete units from the US for around $250 landed

New Alternator Land Rover Range Rover 1999 2000 150Amp | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ALTERNATOR-LAND-ROVER-RANGE-ROVER-1999-2000-150Amp-/300436781319?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ARange+Rover&hash=item45f36d7907&vxp=mtr)

Not long ago I spotted a brand new alternator for sale in the small adds in Perth. I picked it up for a steal, fitted it and sold the old one for the same price to a Disco owner looking for a 150a unit, So I got a new Bosch one for free.

[glenhendry]

I ripped out the alternator and regulator. The regulator looks a bit fried. With black residue everywhere. I cleaned it all up with electrical contact cleaner and no improvement :(

I have a good 14.20v on startup, but over the course of ~5 minutes that declines to 14.08v at the alternator and 14.05v battery, later after a drive I have seen it as low as 13.8v. My cables and connectors are all good.

Here are some pics of the alternator and the regulator. The first one looks a bit like when Darth Vader took his helmet off for the first time... The second one is after a spray of electrical contact cleaner and the regulator removed and flipped over.

[Hoges]

Yep...looks familiar!:) lots of carbon particulate from the worn brushes...
New reg + brushes and you're probably "good to go!" If you're REALLY keen you could press out the bearings etc and reco the lot while waiting for the new regulator to arrive :twisted::wasntme:

[Robsrod 58]

If your unsure about the Ebay regulator, contact some of the people who have bought them for opinions. If you change the brushes make sure you dress the commutator otherwise premature brush wear and arcing will occur, best of luck.

Rob

[TheTree]

I grabbed a cheap digital voltmeter off ebay for about 3 bucks, it plugs into the cigarette lighter socket.

Now i can keep an eye on the voltage easily when i need to.

Steve

[ajge]

If your unsure about the Ebay regulator, contact some of the people who have bought them for opinions. If you change the brushes make sure you dress the commutator otherwise premature brush wear and arcing will occur, best of luck.

Rob

Hi
I bought a cheap regulator off eBay. Installed it and no more problems. I cant comment on longevity because I have sold the car.
Regards
Andrew

[p38oncoils]

Hi Glen, I have the same size battery as you in my p38 and I have a new alternator. The charging voltage on startup is usually about 14.2V – 14.4V to compensate for the current pull when starting and then settles down to 13.6V – 13.8V after a few minutes of running when the alternator has compensated for the initial current draw. That is and has always been the way that I have known voltages to behave in a charging system. I wouldn’t start spending money if I were you until you have had your battery load tested with a good carbon pile load tester.

Until you’ve done that you don’t know what the condition of the battery is. All specialised battery shops will do that for you for free. Keep in mind that the starter might be on the way out and your vehicle may not be starting for that reason. An auto electrician would be able to measure the current draw by the starter and tell you the condition of it – usually for free. It may be that your alternator or regulator are faulty but until you’ve done these checks you’re really just stabbing in the dark.


I have a very big 950CCA 180RC century battery (86ZMF (http://www.centurybatteries.com.au/search/index.php/batteries/ID-71)) and it is failing to start the car 13 months of age (again (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=1612277#post1610608)). This time I believe that there is a better reason.

I have a cool battery monitor (http://www.sidewinder.com.au/page161.html) that i have been using (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/164597-dual-battery-monitor-install.html)to watch the charging voltage across both batteries via this (http://www.sidewinder.com.au/page79.html) isolator.

I always used to have good charging figures (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/142647-battery-failure-after-13-months.html#post1610870), but recently it has reduced to 13.5-13.6v with engine running. That is not enough, as the electrical sticky bible (http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/7-range-rover-mark-ii-p38/28663-sticky-electrical-troubleshooting-updated-2010-a.html) insists on 14.2-14.4. I notice it tends to reduce as things underbonnet heat up, which may indicate regulator failure? I should also note that I have brand new alt->batt cable with new terminal and doubled up earth cables.

Supercheap wanted $899 for the new Alternator, so I want to try a new regulator like Hoges suggests. Rave tells me that I have a Bosch NC90/150 alternator, but I am having trouble finding the regulator for it. Any ideas? Ebay seller suggests this one (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/280570782205#ht_3037wt_1037), and this brush set (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/280570782205#ht_3037wt_1037). I am not sure a non-genuine part is a good idea here.
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[glenhendry]

The new regulator arrived and I installed it last night. All things look good this morning.

HERE (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/230955466037'ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649) is the regulator I bought.

See pics for new and old compared.

[glenhendry]

Things are still problematic. Thanks for your comments p38oncoils, but the battery is definitely not charing completely, I get the gearbox fault error and the slow ABS pump sound and a very low voltage on the monitor.

The new regulator didnt fix my problem this time. Looking for a new alternator. I dont want low voltage problems to start causing hassles with other electrical systems like alarms, and door latches etc.

[p38oncoils]

Things are still problematic. Thanks for your comments p38oncoils, but the battery is definitely not charing completely, I get the gearbox fault error and the slow ABS pump sound and a very low voltage on the monitor.

The new regulator didnt fix my problem this time. Looking for a new alternator. I dont want low voltage problems to start causing hassles with other electrical systems like alarms, and door latches etc.

Call Ashdown Ingram on 3277 8633 or Baxters on 3845 0555 for a price. I got mine from Baxters. I think you'll get them a lot cheaper there than at Super Cheap.

[mtb_gary]

There's a guy over here in Perth with 2 second hand alternators for sale:

120 amp Range Rover Alternators. | Other Parts & Accessories | Gumtree Australia Stirling Area - Osborne Park (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/osborne-park/other-parts-accessories/120-amp-range-rover-alternators-/1021626931)

Maybe worth a call?

Gary

[wayneg]

Even With the Postage I doubt you would find a cheaper New 150 amp unit than these..........
New Alternator Land Rover Range Rover 1999 2000 150Amp | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ALTERNATOR-LAND-ROVER-RANGE-ROVER-1999-2000-150Amp-/300436781319?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45f36d7907&vxp=mtr)

[glenhendry]

Thanks wayneg, I did get one of those alternators and installed it. Things are better now but I still only have ~11.5v in the morning, which starts the car, but I expect to see ~12.4v. I am having a battery drain issue which I believe has been traced to the ODBII scanner waking the BeCM (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=1995364#post1995364) all night.

[poleonpom]

Thanks wayneg, I did get one of those alternators and installed it. Things are better now but I still only have ~11.5v in the morning, which starts the car, but I expect to see ~12.4v. I am having a battery drain issue which I believe has been traced to the ODBII scanner waking the BeCM (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php?p=1995364#post1995364) all night.

That happened to me too

[glenhendry]

This is confirmed, a few days after disconnecting the OBDII scanner from the port, now I am reporting better (~12.nnV) in the mornings. Now I will have to power the ODBII port off of a relay from the ignition as suggested in RR.net.

This new diagnostic scanner must have arrived about the same time as all my alternator problems. Bloody coincidences! :)