Track rod protection

[steveG]

Seems I managed to put a bend in my army spec track rod while out playing around over Easter. I think hitting a decent size rock on a climb was the cause, but it may have just been dropping into a deep rut.

Without getting into a debate on whether to replace it with the original cheese stick type or a heavy duty one, what options are there for more protection for the bar itself.

Terrafirma do track rod protection plates Land Rover parts, spares, Land Rover accessories, all models - Track Rods Protection (http://www.land-rover-parts-shop.com/en/ui/search.php?q=Track+Rods+Protection&stp=s)
They appear to just be a channel that mounts to the radius arm. Pretty simple but I've never seen one or read of one fitted. Anyone had any experience with them?

Do aftermarket steering guards actually provide more protection for the track rod - or effectively just make good bulldozer blades?

Another thought I had was to reinforce under the diff housing to lower it closer to the height of the track rod. I've been planning to reinforce one anyway to reduce the likelihood of the Isuzu weight bending it - so maybe the bottom of the housing is a better location for the reinforcing than on top like others have done. If I'm going to be hung up on something I'd rather it be the housing than the track rod.

I'd also thought about a cranked rod to get out of harms way, but with the Isuzu sump I don't have clearance for anything but a straight rod anyway, so that's not an option.

Finally, what's the best source of a H/D replacement rod if I decide to go that way?

Steve

[inside]

I have a Roving Tracks offset rod in my Isuzu 110. Keith stopped making gear about a month ago for Rovers but if you email him he may have some stock left.

[steveG]

I have a Roving Tracks offset rod in my Isuzu 110. Keith stopped making gear about a month ago for Rovers but if you email him he may have some stock left.

That was my original plan. I emailed Keith on Friday but he doesn't have any left. He did suggest getting one from Rock Ware.
Do you have any issues with it hitting the sump? I measured mine earlier and have about 140mm clearance from the top of a straight rod to the underside of the sump, and about 90mm bump stop clearance. With a bit of bump stop compression I reckon a cranked one would hit if the crank part was pointing straight up.

Steve

[inside]

Do you have any issues with it hitting the sump? I measured mine earlier and have about 140mm clearance from the top of a straight rod to the underside of the sump, and about 90mm bump stop clearance. With a bit of bump stop compression I reckon a cranked one would hit if the crank part was pointing straight up.
Not that I've experienced just by looking at the sump, I had mine under a lot of compression on that side today too but didn't think to have a look as I was working on the rear. I'll have a better look next weekend.

[Loubrey]

Did you actually impact the rod, or did the wheel get enough impact to bend the rod? I ask because if its the latter and the track rod didn't "give" there's a good chance to bend or break something more expensive than a track rod...?

Land Rover philosophy remains that track rods are cheaper and easier to fix than steering boxes, hence they've never made them stronger.

The cranked one looks a good option, but I've personally steered clear of heavy duty rods and pipe surrounds.

Cheers,

Lou

[rovercare]

Did you actually impact the rod, or did the wheel get enough impact to bend the rod? I ask because if its the latter and the track rod didn't "give" there's a good chance to bend or break something more expensive than a track rod...?

Land Rover philosophy remains that track rods are cheaper and easier to fix than steering boxes, hence they've never made them stronger.

The cranked one looks a good option, but I've personally steered clear of heavy duty rods and pipe surrounds.

Cheers,

Lou

Sorry in advance Steve:)

Stock track rods are rubbish, you will bend them in ruts from wheel impact, let alone damage underneath, seriously, I have dropped a rod end, brought it out from under the car, still connected one end and straightened them myself, that's weak

Replace both drag and track rod, I never had problems after, so you most definitely won't. No broken swivel hubs....no torn off spindles.....no broken steering boxes......no front end armagheddon replaced a bit *designed:angel:* to give

They are just rubbish:D

Mal Leslie and sons is where I got mine

Oh, be sure not to use roadsafe rod ends, lemfurder are the go

[rick130]

And further to Matt's post, there's a reason why the Early JRA build Perenties used reinforced track rod and drag links, if it was a risk to anything else they wouldn't have done it that way.
All JRA did was cut the ends off stock ones and weld them into heavy wall tube, the ones like the Maxi ones I have are a little more elegant in design.

As a mate of mine who was an engineer on the Perentie said, he just couldn't understand the Poms thinking and they never, ever listened to what was requested out here.
As he said, the channel under the diff is just a joke.
When I first bought the 130 way back at the end of '01 Mark told me that the first things I should do was replace the tie rod, drag link and trailing arms, none of them were up to it.

BTW, early GU Patrol tie rods and drag links are stouter than 90/110/130 ones and yet Nissan upgraded them to big diameter tube and female thread from male thread tie rod ends around I think '03 as the standard ones were being bent.
They are beefy and we don't see GU's breaking steering boxes or snapping the arms off uprights left, right and centre either.

The sacrificial line gets a bit OTT at times to explain away inadequate engineering.
Landies have some good points, but the glaringly obvious engineering faux pas never seem to be fixed.
I 'spose it gives us lot something else to do :D

[Psimpson7]

And to further the point about drag links and steering boxes, I badly broke a steering box with a std drag link! and bent the panhard rod back 2"

The full width track rod guards are not great imo. I have driven with a car with one fitted. It got hung up all over the place on it. Personally I would just upgrade the rods.

Edited to add, on another recent trip we had another box broken, this time with upgraded rods. Both that and my one were dumb though and could have been avoided.

[steveG]

And to further the point about drag links and steering boxes, I badly broke a steering box with a std drag link! and bent the panhard rod back 2"

The full width track rod guards are not great imo. I have driven with a car with one fitted. It got hung up all over the place on it. Personally I would just upgrade the rods.

Edited to add, on another recent trip we had another box broken, this time with upgraded rods. Both that and my one were dumb though and could have been avoided.

Good to hear from someone who has actually busted a steering box as it doesn't seem common. Were the failures from reasonably direct hits on rocks or similar?

As Matt correctly implied earlier - mine is driven more like a school bus than a comp truck, so if the upgraded rods aren't causing issues in hard-driven vehicles then there won't be any issues with mine.

Steve

[rick130]

Good to hear from someone who has actually busted a steering box as it doesn't seem common. Were the failures from reasonably direct hits on rocks or similar?

As Matt correctly implied earlier - mine is driven more like a school bus than a comp truck, so if the upgraded rods aren't causing issues in hard-driven vehicles then there won't be any issues with mine.

Steve


Tony/Rangier Rover broke the sector shaft in his 120, but it had done a fistfull of miles and when he posted the photo's up it just looked like a classic fatigue failure in my not educated opinion. ie, it was at the end of its life.
Scarred the frig out of him, and it could have been a very nasty outcome all the same.

[Psimpson7]

Hi Steve,

Firstly we aren't really running sensible tyres, so take that into account.

Mine was basically trying to straddle a 1m deep L shaped trench in the middle of a track down at Coffs at about 10kmh. I misjudged it, and the left front wheel fell in, stooping the car dead, lifting the opposing rear wheel well clear of the ground.

The damage was to the helically cut shaft that the roller runs in, having a flat put on it. That caused the box to lock on Right lock on occasion.

The other one, was on a car running 37"s attempting a large climb at Coffs (again) He tried to straddle the ruts running up the centre and the right hand bank. It dropped in, hard enough to take the left front tyre straight off the rim.

Same damage we think, although it hasnt been taken apart yet. Wasn't quite as bad as it didn't lock.

Both were 4 bolt adwest boxes, the second one was almost new.

[goingbush]

Steve, further to PM

dont know how Isuzu sump compares to Td5

I'm waiting for the bang, I have my cranked rod canted slightly forward, and the tie rod end clamps are not super tight, if it does hit I hope it will just crank down on the TRE threads

no reports of them hitting in USA but distinct lack of Isuzu & Td5's over there


I also drive it like a bus and not a bogun in a Hilux

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1186.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1187.jpg

[Loubrey]

Guys,

My post was more a question than judgement on upgrading the rods...

I've only one bent one and that was encountering a washout (about 500mm deep x 500mm wide) 90 degrees to the road at around 45km/h (locked brakes skidding into the "trench").

Nearly flipped the 90 in a forward somersault, but luckily landed on the bull bar and dropped back wheel side. Seat belt welts and sore wrists to boot.

Only damage to the car was the bent track rod (front wheels faced about 45 degrees outwards) which I managed to butcher sort of straight-ish with a winch pull until I reached the next town. Still a menace to drive slowly as it wanted to go everywhere but straight...

I just wonder if the trackrod didn't "give" on that occasion if I would have had a failure on something else?

On daily off road drives and heavy duty work like Rick's, upgrading seems a given and I would do the same if that was my application. However not even the Camel Trophy trucks had upgraded track rods, just spares which are reasonable cheap and very easy to replace.

Cheers,

Lou

[rick130]

Steve, further to PM

dont know how Isuzu sump compares to Td5

I'm waiting for the bang, I have my cranked rod canted slightly forward, and the tie rod end clamps are not super tight, if it does hit I hope it will just crank down on the TRE threads

no reports of them hitting in USA but distinct lack of Isuzu & Td5's over there


I also drive it like a bus and not a bogun in a Hilux

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1186.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1187.jpg


Oh dear, I've slowed down an awful lot from how I used to drive and yet my bumps stops are very clean and the axle pads polished and I have more distance between them than you too :angel:

Maybe I should be driving a Lolux ? :(:D

You need to allow for 20mm compression of the bump stop on a good hit.
I damaged two pairs of long travel Koni's trying to maximise droop travel many years ago to prove that point to myself.
Cost me a bunch of internal parts + time to rebuild them as I'd only allowed 10-15mm of bump stop compression and damaged shockies aren't a complete game stopper compared to a holed sump.

[inside]

Do you have any issues with it hitting the sump?
Just had a quick look. I set mine up so the raised part will pass between the sump and diff under compression. The cranked part is not 90 degrees to the ground, it's tilted forward slightly.

[goingbush]

Mine is tilted forward slightly, after thinking about Ricks response I'll angle it forward a little more, 45 degrees should give plenty of clearance, plus if it does hit it'll just screw the rod forward on the TRE threads.

when I had progressive front springs the axle pads were bright shiny, with the Kings they are not so shiny.

[steveG]

How much offset do these cranked rods actually have?
Inside - do you have a truck sump, or the winged style landy one? I've got the landy one (with the wing cut off) and it doesn't look like a cranked rod would fit between it and the diff.

I just grabbed a light and had a crawl around under the car to check it out a bit more. The damage to the current rod was definitely a rock as I can see the gouges in the rod. Considering the size of the gouge the army style rod has done pretty well. I'm guessing a standard one would have looked more like a U-bolt than the slight banana shape I've got now.

On a less positive note, the slight oil leak from my front diff housing that I thought was the filler plug - isn't.
Filler plug is bone dry but there is a wet oil line following the weld around the front cover. I'm guessing the weld is cracked :(

Steve

[Ancient Mariner]

With the larger lower height of my pinion I had to crank the tierod .1"x.250 wall
was out of stock:( said they could supply 4130 for $7 pm extra:D.Went with
that with Bendix [ Humber Snipe ? Hawk?] tie rod ends:confused:

AM