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Skiboy
9th April 2013, 11:19 AM
I have 0.1 amp being drawn with the ignition off in my stage one wiring loom. It is a PIA to disconnect the battery after running and going to let it sit and destroying my battery.

There is no draw across the fuses!

So the draw must be via either the ign key or something connected to the left side of the fuse block right?

Any suggestions on how I might track this down - note there is a non-functioning Ammeter in the dash - could this be the cause? I can't find a wiring diagram that shows how this might have been wired up in original vehicle - fitted from dealer (either factory or by dealer but there since new).

See instrument cluster below
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1126.jpg

thanks in advance
Keith

bee utey
9th April 2013, 03:14 PM
Measure the current flow when you
1. disconnect the alternator's main power cable.
2. disconnect the radio memory fuse if you have one.
3. Also listen for tiny clicks etc from relays and such like when you connect the battery up.

Or get a trickle charger, either mains or solar.

drifter
9th April 2013, 08:59 PM
I have a battery isolator switch mounted in the drivers footwell on the seat box

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1069.jpg

Skiboy
10th April 2013, 07:48 AM
Measure the current flow when you
1. disconnect the alternator's main power cable.
2. disconnect the radio memory fuse if you have one.
3. Also listen for tiny clicks etc from relays and such like when you connect the battery up.

Or get a trickle charger, either mains or solar.

Thanks bee utey

Current flow not affected by (1) disconnecting alt wires are alt (alt not the original later model refurbished one fitted) - what were you thinking here?

Re (2) Radio not connected to this battery (to isolated aux battery)

Re (3) no relays in system other than ign relay - all rest are after ign. Head lights (Traxide) uses ign power, Computer (and hence fuel pumps) use ign power etc

Have a CTEK charger but this only relevant if long periods of no use - battery is a yellow top optima.

My issue is 2 weeks after a long running weekend should hold power not drop to 10.5v!

Only item I see working is the clock - maybe I should test its current draw?

Ammeter not connected I found and no wires??? As I understand it the ammeter should run between the alt and rest of loom with bit fat cables so no voltage drop/handle current. Will need to see if new alt is more than the 60amp ammeter gauge runs to. Not sure.

Skiboy

Skiboy
10th April 2013, 08:00 AM
I have a battery isolator switch mounted in the drivers footwell on the seat box

http://www.hgvdirect.co.uk/catalog/images/electrical/isolatorswitch.gif
Thanks John

Good suggestion and I had thought about this (see below) but the point was this should not be necessary! I will do this if can't sort the underlying issue out but wanted the isolating switch to be more a safety item (and crude security block for the uninitiated thief).

This would certainly be easier than pushing seat back and squeezing hand in to disconnect neg terminal.

I have an isolating switch that is a more fancy version of the one above that also turns the alternator off (so can't keep running after started) that I have not fitted this yet. These are required for competitions as a safety device and not a bad idea on all 4x4 being used off road given roll over risk vis-a-vis tarmac use.

Also why I use AGM batteries so no leaks under seat.

Might be fitting switch in weekend to save battery while running down the problem. At least my new battery cable crimp tool arrived so can make my own leads!

bee utey
10th April 2013, 08:06 AM
Alternators can have leaking diodes, your words highlighted below are unclear about what you disconnected, i.e. the power wires off the back.

I would never again use an old style ammeter, I've seen too many melted ammeters to be happy with that type. An ammeter is there to show the charge/discharge rate of the main battery so is wired between the battery and the rest of the electrics, with the sole exeption of the starter. Unless you have an ammeter designed to be used with a current shunt out by the battery, I would avoid it like the plague.

If you have a computer, unplug it too. Most have some battery feed to them and use ignition key input to control the output.

But the idea of a battery isolator switch sounds like a good idea to me. Lots of vehicles will drain a battery when parked, they are designed to be used every day.





Thanks bee utey

Current flow not affected by (1) disconnecting alt wires are alt (alt not the original later model refurbished one fitted) - what were you thinking here?

Re (2) Radio not connected to this battery (to isolated aux battery)

Re (3) no relays in system other than ign relay - all rest are after ign. Head lights (Traxide) uses ign power, Computer (and hence fuel pumps) use ign power etc

Have a CTEK charger but this only relevant if long periods of no use - battery is a yellow top optima.

My issue is 2 weeks after a long running weekend should hold power not drop to 10.5v!

Only item I see working is the clock - maybe I should test its current draw?

Ammeter not connected I found and no wires??? As I understand it the ammeter should run between the alt and rest of loom with bit fat cables so no voltage drop/handle current. Will need to see if new alt is more than the 60amp ammeter gauge runs to. Not sure.

Skiboy

Skiboy
10th April 2013, 08:17 AM
bee utey thanks - sorry for typo - proof reading not my strength.

I disconnected the two brown wires that carry the current from the Alt to battery terminal post on the starter - disconnected at the alt end.

Ok re ammeter - thanks for the advice - was only looking to reconnect because it is there in the cluster and it is the only non-working element. i guess this is why it was disconnected - that's ok because I have another gauge to fit in the space - you have motivated me now.

Skiboy

drifter
10th April 2013, 05:13 PM
The one downside to the battery isolator that I have experienced is: if I want to use the radio I have to seek the favourite station again each time I turn the car on!

I tend to leave it turned on most of the time but, there again, the car is a daily driver at the moment so any potential battery drain is picked up at least twice a day driving to and from work.

Should I leave it anywhere for an extended time, however, it is certainly a thief deterrent. (unless they know where the battery is on these vehicles and have a spanner in their pocket...)

Skiboy
10th April 2013, 07:48 PM
Ok took instrument pod out and tested current draw of clock - it draws 0.003 amps

With clock disconnected the batt draw drops from 0.099 or o.098 down to 0.095 amps

So then disconnected all wires connected to the left side of fuse block which SHOULD mean no current draw right? with ignition off there should be no power to anything

Current draw at batt via neg terminal still 0.095 amps

So I am at a loss how there can be current draw with no wires connected to fuses - has to be something taking current from the starter terminal block?

Any ideas what to do now?
Ski boy

Timj
10th April 2013, 09:05 PM
Since it is a series not everything goes through the fuse box :) so probably there is something happening outside of that. I discovered just the other day that the heater fan in the Series 3 runs on auxiliary power and has it's own inline fuse stuck in the wire behind the dash rather than using the fuse box. Have a good look at the wiring diagram to see anything that is not fused.

Cheers,

Tim.

Skiboy
11th April 2013, 08:54 AM
I have been looking at the wiring diagram. I thought I knew the loom pretty well because I started with it on the bench.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1014.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/1015.jpg

Not sure what it might be so going to do some more testing - basically disconnecting until I find the item I guess.

I a thinking of disconnect the brown +ve wires at the starter and then see which one is drawing the current then work back from there I guess.

Had a thought that it could be the auto inhibitor because the wires to the auto were damaged and not cut out not work in Park only neutral. Seems unlikely? I am starting to clutch at straws.

Batt only charges to 11.3 volt with CTEK - can't get it to over 12v - could when I connected two batt and left over night the charge rose to 12.3v. But a day with earth connected and no take full charge again.

I wonder if I have some cross over between the two batteries that not aware of = mistake by me. Solenoid between the two is definitely off but Aux batt is running stuff when main batt earth disconnected.

Might be out with the seat and test everything - man this is going to be frustrating pulling it all apart when just finished building.

jboot51
11th April 2013, 09:30 AM
Your battery sounds like it might be on its way out. Dropped a cell?

Your dual battery charger, if electronic will also draw current when sitting.

Skiboy
11th April 2013, 11:53 AM
Thanks jboot51

Suspect you might be right - bugger - battery is a Yellow top optima - couple of years old I guess
AGM style - comes up to 12v if connect to another battery and leave for a day.

I don't have a duel battery system - I have an ignition controlled solenoid. $35 job - it is all we use on all our trucks (ie my D2, Orange Rangie Ute and our Stage One Hybrid (this truck called Bumblebee)) to allow us to leave the aux bat running sound system, fridge and lights when truck ign is off.

Would love a Traxide system but can't afford x3 for all 3 vehicles. I have however invested in Traxide hi beam system (and other bits) for 2x vehicles as more important to spend $ there.

Solenoid is simple but effective.
Skiboy

Skiboy
13th April 2013, 12:13 AM
Ok found the leak - YEAH :D- not sure why it happening though :(

When I disconnect the plug for the oil temp gauge for the auto the current draw drops to .002 to .003 amps - ie what the clock is drawing.

So some part of the wiring/gauge is drawing a little current - maybe to the temp sender on the auto oil line?

Anyway will need to look and make sure the power source for the gauge is all via ign then this will remove the problem - job for tomorrow.
Skiboy

drifter
13th April 2013, 10:01 AM
I wired a 30A relay in the output of the ignition switch so all my 'key controlled stuff' goes through the relay (which feeds a new 10 way fuse block).

That way I am not running too much power through the ignition switch and I have fuses for single items rather than many items using one fuse.

Skiboy
13th April 2013, 10:29 AM
Drifter - thanks - seems like a great idea. I vaguely remember considering this option when I was building the truck (decided too much work) but went with factory set up to start with on basis that I had so much new extra stuff to sort out that would just make sure I did that all separately and leave dash alone (other then tidy up all the prior butchering and by passing that had been done in the past).

All my new aux stuff runs off aux battery via fusible link then relays with own fuses. So that is all covered and includes 12 sockets, all aux lights air con, UHF, sound system etc. Switch panel for all AUX also runs off ign via relay. Replaced headlights with Traxide relay set up with own fuses. All rear lights re LED so current draw via existing ign to lights is limited to front parks, indicators and headlight relay.

Computer and fuel pump is ign switched relay.

However all dash stuff (gauges and lights) are still off the main fuse block (glass fuses) AND seemingly some non fused non ign power????.

Last night I had same thought re what to do. But for there to be any current draw with ign off to this gauge I must be picking up some NON ign controlled power. So will search for that today. The decide if I want to make a new bock via relay for all the dash stuff.

I suspect the issue is that I have picked up power from the main light switch because this is not ign controlled.

Watch next installment!
Skiboy

superquag
13th April 2013, 10:32 AM
"...When I disconnect the plug for the oil temp gauge for the auto ...."

Is that transmission temp gauge Original Equipment or non-standard? - If so, fitted by ???

drifter
13th April 2013, 10:46 AM
Drifter - thanks - seems like a great idea. I vaguely remember considering this option when I was building the truck (decided too much work) but went with factory set up to start with on basis that I had so much new extra stuff to sort out that would just make sure I did that all separately and leave dash alone (other then tidy up all the prior butchering and by passing that had been done in the past).

All my new aux stuff runs off aux battery via fusible link then relays with own fuses. So that is all covered and includes 12 sockets, all aux lights air con, UHF, sound system etc. Switch panel for all AUX also runs off ign via relay. Replaced headlights with Traxide relay set up with own fuses. All rear lights re LED so current draw via existing ign to lights is limited to front parks, indicators and headlight relay.

Computer and fuel pump is ign switched relay.

However all dash stuff (gauges and lights) are still off the main fuse block (glass fuses) AND seemingly some non fused non ign power????.

Last night I had same thought re what to do. But for there to be any current draw with ign off to this gauge I must be picking up some NON ign controlled power. So will search for that today. The decide if I want to make a new bock via relay for all the dash stuff.

I suspect the issue is that I have picked up power from the main light switch because this is not ign controlled.

Watch next installment!
Skiboy


I retained the fuse 'box' in the steering column for some of the standard items....

However, I also noticed that the 'powered' side of the fuses have more than one connection point and most of them were in use. One was switched ignition and the others were direct battery - meaning that there were items being powered before the fuse and outside of ignition control. It is possible that you may have that scenario.

Skiboy
13th April 2013, 10:49 AM
Fitted by the master auto elec = me

So total amateur job - the truck is a stage one body (cut to cab) on rangie chassis with 3.5 and ZF auto.

So wired an aftermarket oil temp gauge into the auto transmission line so can see temp - did this on our other Orange Rangie Ute (see sig pic) and this SAVED us as found during comps and summer work temp way over 120 deg. Basically the normal rangie hedgehog oil cooler not do the job.

We put an off the self oil cooler matrix in the line. Solved. So in Bumblebee (yellow truck) this is a precaution that shows when we have worked her hard and maybe need to rest.

Partly did this because gauge cheaper and much easier than pulling an auto out and replacing in front drive.

4 wires to gauge unit so will check the wiring and source power for it now

Skiboy
13th April 2013, 10:52 AM
Drifter - yes I have some on the pre ign side of fuse and some on a fuse that is direct battery - all these disconnected when I found the gauge issue!

So while this routing might be an issue in general it is not the cause of the problem I have.

So dash is about to come out - again!

Do this so often I have made a little puller for the steering wheel so easier!

Skiboy
13th April 2013, 12:26 PM
Tea break - Ok found my error! :) I have wired the oil temp gauge to take power from same feed as clock. I of course thought I was smarter than the gauge wiring diagram and have wired the orange and red wires to the battery feed to the clock. :eek:

But only the orange is supposed to be battery feed - red is supposed to be 12v ign switched.

I suspect I though (not sure how) the clock was 12v ign - which obviously it would not be so maybe I thought (a year ago when doing this) that I would make both 12 v direct.

Anyway clearly need to rewire the ign switched wire and that will solve the problem
Skiboy

Skiboy
13th April 2013, 04:17 PM
With ign switched power to auto oil temp gauge now have current draw of 0.009 vs when started of 0.099-0.102

So now 10% of what had but still have more than just the clock which is 0.002-0.003

So will do some more investigation but must say I am close to putting batt isolator switch in - will do something before new battery as this one is dead - holds about 11v charge. drops to 10.5v when hocked up but not used for a few days/week.

So stuffed I suspect.

Skiboy