TD5 - Assistance with deciphering

[oxley2903]

In the short time that I have been a member of the forum I have watched just how helpful everyone is and also assisting others with knowledge if needed. I like the ethic and culture of the site so thought that I might put up a post seeking some help.

I have bought a Discovery 2 2002 (300kms) which has some problems with oil underneath. Certainly know that work will be needed. Given that I paid $6000 in the end with all the extras I shouldn't be too much out of pocket if it all went to crap. The missus says I bought a Lemon. I don't want her to not like landrovers. She wants an amarok and reminds me of this.

From discussing with the seller this is what his take of the status for oil leaks. If someone could assist with deciphering what he says would go a long way to either agreeing I bought a lemon or just a good price car that needs some maintenance and still comes out a not a bad price.
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This is what the seller has told me.
Fuel Pressure Reg is leaking on the right hand side of the motor (as you’re sitting in the vehicle). Depending on whether you’re comfortable doing the work yourself…it can be a little difficult to get to. I would suggest a universal jointed, long-reach socket/ratchet setup to get to it.

Post resolution of the FPR above. You may have a sweat coming from the bell housing (ie, clutch / transfer box input area)…which you should leave unless you’re keen to replace at least the entire clutch pack, release bearing, input and main seal on either side…BIG JOB. Be prepared if going in there…to budget for a new Dual Mass Flywheel also. The parts alone would be a little over 1k (for genuine parts only…which I recommend). Labour could cost up to $400 I think on that job, some would be less. If on a tight budget, you would have to go for at least a new release bearing, 2 seals and Valeo Clutch kit…probably approx $400-$500 all up parts + labour.
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What does have me concerned is that the oil that the discovery dropped after a cool night in canberra showed a thin light brown oil which looks to me to be coming from around the joint of the bell housing. The oil in the engine is the black you would expect so I am assuming that these are not one of the same.

Any assistance in steering me in the right direction to get it resolved and deciphering the email from the seller would be great.

Regards
Tony:o

[OffTrack]

The brown oil will be diesel leaking from the FPR. It tends to drip from the bolt heads at the bottom of the bell housing.

Best thing to do is sort the FPR as a first step and get the engine clean so you can see what is leaking, if anything.

Cheers
Paul

[oxley2903]

Hi Paul,

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.

From the sellers email description of the FDR I located a copy of the Discovery Workshop manual and printed off the pages relating to the FDR. Noticed that there was a very good explanation on fixing the problem on another site that specifically related to Discovery 2s.

I must have laid under the car for a good 20 minutes trying to see where the oil (diesel) came from. Your saying that the drip normally drops of the bell housing appears to be the case. Not being a person who normally works on my car (I do oils & filters though) chasing an oil leak does have red herrings.

Will order the kit and have a go at tackling the job.

Having bought the car in NSW and transferring it to ACT it has to have a road worthy inspection at a garage. I will ask them to have a closer look at the other sections too. They said if I give the motor a good clean down underneath they can then have a good look. The motor underneath is really quite clean apart from the drips.

Regards
Tony

[bsperka]

There are some good hints on how to perform the FPR replacement on AULRO. For example, a recent post talks about how it is easier to undo the bottom bolt from within the wheel arch. Use the google search function at the bottom of the screen to search for FPR / fuel pressure regulator.

[eddy]

This leak does sound like the Fuel pressure regulator,a job that is awkward but quite doable by the average diy.Another area that leaks and gives the same symptom is oil running down the back of the head from a leaking cam cover gasket[half moon section]This oil is usually black and can give the impression of a leaking main seal,leading to clutch replacement/main seal etc.Worth checking before coughing up $$.

[sheerluck]

So Tony, from what you've described, and the responses given, doesn't sound like a lemon. Not even vaguely yellow coloured.

[oxley2903]

Thank you again for the replies guys,

The information has been of great value and you have given me the confidence to get in and fix the FPR. I have ordered the kit online from the UK and delivered is only AUD $21.00

Receiving some good feedback about not buying a lemon has given me a bit of confidence too and whilst it looks like a bit of oil dropped on the driveway it can be fixed up. The missus might not get the amarok too soon. :D

Will certainly get back to you guys once I have tackled the job. Please keep in touch.

Regards
Tony

[oxley2903]

Guys,

would I expect the FPR to still drip if I haven't moved or driven the car in two days?

Tony

[OffTrack]

Guys,

would I expect the FPR to still drip if I haven't moved or driven the car in two days?

Tony

Probably - the system is pressurised to 5 bar when the pump is running and it could take a while for pressure to dissipate. If the o-rings are shot it might not even take pressure for pooled diesel to continue leaking.

The only way you can be 100% is to check for yourself. Pull the engine cover off (it's 3 x 13mm bolts), grab a torch and have a look and feel around the hoses and underneath the regulator body. If it is wet and greasy and smells like diesel you'll have a definitive answer - it should be pretty obvious if the reg is leaking. You might be able to see wet diesel on the block if the gasket is leaking.

cheers
Paul

[strangy]

Sure doesnt sound like a lemon to me.
The FPR is common to fix at this age and you may experience dripping from the bell housing for a few days after fixing it until it drys out.
I wouldnt be concerned with the clutch unless it is showing signs of failing, i.e slipping.
If the 300kms has been without having a clutch replacement, it has done very well and has probably been a country car or used mainly for long trips.
In any case clutches are simply maintenance and not lemon material.
The seller has been honest with you regarding the points you mentioned and the estimated $ are pretty well right.

If there is nothing else but these 2 points you seem to have bought well.
Put up some pics when you get a chance.

cheers

[oxley2903]

Hi Guys,

I am keen to tackle the FPR as soon as the gasket kit I ordered today turns up. I will certainly post some pics of the Disco and also some of the FPR once I tackle the job.

Have taken some time off work for the school holidays next week and will use the time to do the job. The young lad might come in handy too.

Found the seller very good and up front. He is chasing his dream of being a share day trader in the U.S. so wants to just sell it. I reckon it was on carsales for about an hour when I stumbled on it. He was good in that he waited for me to come up and see the car on the weekend from Canberra before allowing anyone else to have a look in.

Tony
:)

[djam1]

Don't rely on the seal kit as a fix even if it does fix the dripping it is often only a short term fix.
Often its the regulator not the O Rings

[oxley2903]

Well an update.

I took the acoustic sound protector off the motor and had a look at the FPR. It was certainly wet all around it. What was very noticeable was that the insulation on the rear acoustic sound protector between the motor and the firewall was absolutely soaking. I pressed on it and out came more but darker this time oil. from the press new patch of oil appeared.

It was mentioned that there could be something leaking from behind too. I couldn't work how to get the rear acoustic sound protector off. i did slip my hand between the motor and the insulation on the rear acoustic sound protector and it had some what looked like grey graphite grease on it.

Looking on the steel drop tray that I stuck under the disco it just has spots and pools of oil that make it look quite bad really. I am sure with some maintenance she will come good.

Maybe the missus could be right about it being a lemon. ;)

This Friday it will be off for the road worthy for transferring from NSW to ACT so lets also see what they mechanics say about it.

I appreciate all your help guys and hope that you keep an eye on how I am going with the leaks. I don't want to go far afield with the family in it until fixed.

Regards
Tony

[BIG O]

Hey tony, don't give up on it yet. It sounds like it will be the rocker cover gasket leaking..considering the engine still has a rear acoustic cover in place. Most D2'sTD5's have those left off after the rocker gasket was replaced. Just rip the acoustic cover off..I think its two hard to get to bolts .

[OffTrack]

I'd lose the rear acoustic cover, it's more trouble than it's worth. Mine didn't have one when I bought it, and I eventually picked up a new one for cheap. It lasted about 2 months before it got pulled off. :angel:

There are two bolts but they are a bugger to get at. I had to use a ring spanner to get on to them - an offset ring would probably help.

The steps involved in doing the gasket are included in this how-to. Just ignore the harness replacement steps (for now anyway).

www.discovery2.co.uk / Workshop /Injector Harness (http://www.discovery2.co.uk/Injector_harness.html)

I'd highly recommend replacing both the gasket and the spacers. There are a few tricks to making this a successful operation.

- Clean the sealing face and groove in the cam cover with something like brake cleaner or isopropyl alcohol to ensure there is no oil on the surfaces.

- Mount the gasket onto the cam cover, then push the spacers through the holes and into the gasket from underneath. They will be held in place by the gasket and in turn hold the gasket in place when you turn it over. Ignore any advice that involves adhesive to hold the gasket in place ;)

- Put two 3mm spots of sensor friendly rtv sealant on each side of the half moon at the back of the head.

- When you are putting the cover on stand in front of the engine and hold the cover near the front. This wll give you maximum control. There are shields that need to be manoeuvred between the injectors and the rocker shaft so you'll have to peer under the cover as you fit it.

- Use a torque wrench to tighten the bolts down to 7nm working from the centre outwards. Don't over tighten the bolts.

If you fix the gasket and the FPR/FCB that will solve the two most common leaks that lead to puddles under the bell housing.

cheers
Paul

[oxley2903]

Guys,

I am actually enjoying the challenge of locating the oil problems. From not knowing anything before the post what you guys have said on this forum that my knowledge has increased so quickly.

Armed with a copy of the workshop manual and reading all your posts I am getting the idea what is what under the bonnet.

Helping with the red herrings of where the oil is seen e.g. bell housing has been of immense value.

The missus is looking over my shoulder and laughing in jest that of course the guys would know about it. She says its because it is a landrover. All in fun guys as she is enjoying the ribbing. Don't worry I give as good as I get. She is a great lady.:D

Thanks again.

[Pinelli]

Guys,

I am actually enjoying the challenge of locating the oil problems.<snip>

Welcome to Land Rover :)

[oxley2903]

Hi Guys,

Well the Disco 2 went for the road worthy but failed on a couple of things.

This is what looks to be the culprit for the leaks. Not really an FPR as such but this explains a lot.

I took in a couple of dessert spoons of the main oil leak which certainly showed not to be engine oil. It was brake oil and power steering oil.

Now I was under the hoist with the mechanic and he showed me the problems.

The return hose to the power steering had worn away and this was very clear to see.

The brake master cylinder from underneath was leaking.

In addition but not relating to oil was the R/H front side engine mount had split.

The mechanic also said said the the drips of oil we saw just after the back of the shaft was the same oil and in all probability was the spraying from the front.

Anyway the mechanic was up front and said that if I was to buy the parts online from the UK I would save quite a bit. The labour he said would be about $400.

So ordered the parts and I won't bother to play around with trying to do the job myself as I need to get the car roadworthy fairly quickly.

Brake Master Cylinder (Part No. SJC100442) $144.35, Power Steering Hose return (Part No. ANR6974) $70.10, engine mount (Part No. KKB500750) $43.10. I ended up buying two of the engine mounts thinking they might as well do both at the same time.

So Guys, I am thinking that these jobs aren't too big in comparison so just maybe the Disco 2 for the price wasn't a lemon. The missues I am sure will continue to take the p!55 out of me though.

Thanks again for all your help and will look to get some pictures up of the vehicle in the next day or so.

Tony:)

[sheerluck]

You definitely got yourself a good buy there. A hose, a rubber mount and the master cylinder that the seals had probably gone on, for an 11 year old vehicle that's covered 300,000km, and designed to do all of that in off road conditions, really does not sound like a lemon.

So a few more days until it's roadworthy, and then you'll be well and truly in the world of Landrovering!

[oxley2903]

Here is a pic of the Discovery I just bought that has been giving me some problems with the power steering leak.

59066

[oxley2903]

Hi All,

Well I got her back from the mechanic today. The whole problem related to the LP hose for the power steering and the master brake cylinder. Between the two it looked like heaps of oil underneath.

Taking her out on her first trip bush tomorrow.

She passed the roadworthy too.

Will post a bit more in a couple of days.

Thanks again to all you guys who provided me support.

Tony:)

[schuy1]

Here is a pic of the Discovery I just bought that has been giving me some problems with the power steering leak.

59066

Very nice :) If all it is is a couple of hoses and mounts you really do have a good deal there.

Cheers Scott

[Modelsp]

Dear
Oxley2903
I have the cure for your wifes' Amorok fetish
firstly go to the local deli and buy a small peice of
Bratwurst or similar German sausage
take it home and leave it on the carport roof for a week
then go and get an Amorok for a test drive
bring it home and before she sees it put the Bratwurst in the back with the bag open
drive her around the block with some good Idlevise music on and tell her they all smell like this and this is the only music they play.also works on Mercedes & BMW's
problem solved.
the oil is probably only your Landy Marking its' new territory
Paul:D:D:D
Oh good purchase there as well.;)
and a nicer and more helpful bunch of blokes you wouldn't meet any where but here.

[oxley2903]

Hi Guys,

Well delayed the camping trip by 24 hours.

Had the biggest sinking feel that my new purchased has got me again.

Got the disco back from the mechanic and I was as pleased as punch. The Missus even had a drive of it back from the horse paddock afterwards.

Went to the dawn service in the disco she was tremendous. Ducked down the shops to buy the victuals for the camping trip and all going good until....

Well we get about 1.2km down the road with the gear in the back. The kids in the car all excited. (Missus will drive down in another car as she has to work on Anzac Day and Friday). Turn the first corner and all the brakes start to clamp on and it feels like the car is really struggling. My heart sinks as I pull over and jump out with some nervousness that she has died again.

Ring the Missus and she thinks we are all kidding and making a joke of it. When I said I wasn't she drove down and we transferred all the camping gear and victuals back to the truck. The kids are sad and the Missus knows not to make too much of a joke about it as she sees I am not a happy camper. (pardon the pun).

Ring a couple of mates to ask what they thought. The general consensus was that it was in all probability the master brake cylinder not disengaging. Or words to that fact. Ring a couple of mobile mechanics and and say a couple of things all not being very motivational to hear.

So off home to find if there was a mobile phone number of the mechanic that did the master brake cylinder replacement for me the day before. Yes there is... I give him a call and his wife answers. Yep we will be down shortly they say as they are only about 7 minutes away. He is there about 10 minutes and pulls out the the master brake cylinder and re-seats the needle (something to that effect) and puts it all back together and she is back on the road. He apologized for the problem and mentioned that his son who works for him mentioned that he had some trouble seating the needle. Well his son would be in his thirties and he is qualified as his certificate hangs in the shopfront of the garage. Maybe he was more preoccupied with his long weekend. grrr...

Anyway back on the road after the hiccup so it will be off camping again for second attempt.

Will say that one of the first things I did when I got home after leaving the disco on the road was to hit the AULRO forums to get some additional help. It is nice knowing that there are a great bunch who are always ready to help.

Thanks again guys for all the help and encouragement over the past couple of weeks.

Oh lastly the FPR is a little damp but I have the replacement seal/gasket kit for it so there is something for the future.

Regards
Tony:)

[oxley2903]

Hi Guys,

Well its been 5 days since the work on the LP for the power steering and the brake master cylinder were done.

I look every morning and night under the disco looking for any pool of oil to appear. Happy to say that she hasn't let a drop out. The missus is happy no more stains on the driveway.

Happy to close off this thread as you have all be fantastic with the help.

On a slight different note I have started a new thread about a whistle which might be associated to the brakes after a dusty fire trail and using the HDC.

Would love to keep in touch and hear what you might have to say about it.