Using the Towbar as a recovery point.

[Kevin B]

Hi all,
I totally expect to get smashed for this but here goes, I do not have a hayman Reese style towbar on my Discovery (something im going to soon correct) so I cannot use one of those recovery tongue fittings with the D shackle attached, I understand and am fully aware that attaching anything to the towball bar a trailer is a no no, ive seen the vids and read the forums, mini cannon balls when they break, ok hers my question

Can I REMOVE the towball and put the pin of the D shackle though it and use it as a recovery point now, the tongue is attached to the main bar with 2 bolts which I have recently replaced with high tensile ones as I didnt like the look of the ones on there, can anyone see a problem with this,

Feedback appreciated. .

[Homestar]

Personally, I can't see why not. As you mentioned,the tongue bolts have been replaced, and the hole where the towball goes is plenty big enough for a good sized, rated shackle.

Certainly better than using the tow ball I would think.

Cheers - Gav.

[Eevo]

yes, what you have mentioned is ok, not perfect.

post a pic of your towbar please

[Sue]

Don't put a shackle through the pin as all you are doing there is just adding one more piece that could well fail... but you can (if you don't have or can't use a recovery block) put the pin (or bolts that hold the towball in pace) through the loop in the snatch strap... I have heard of pins bending this way (which would make them very difficult to remove) but have never personally met anyone who has seen it happen ..(it's always been a friend of a friend kind of story).. :)

[Kevin B]

yes, what you have mentioned is ok, not perfect.

post a pic of your towbar please

Ok ill go snap one tomorrow sometime, thanks

[Hall]

Also to consider is the rating of your tow bar and how it is attached. Then there is the distance from the centere of the hole in the tounge to the edge of the tounge. Will there be enough space when a shackle is fitted for a sling as well ?
Cheers Hall

[Kevin B]

Don't put a shackle through the pin as all you are doing there is just adding one more piece that could well fail... but you can (if you don't have or can't use a recovery block) put the pin (or bolts that hold the towball in pace) through the loop in the snatch strap... I have heard of pins bending this way (which would make them very difficult to remove) but have never personally met anyone who has seen it happen ..(it's always been a friend of a friend kind of story).. :)

Your assuming I have a HR style towbar I "DO NOT"...the shacke will go throught the hole in the tongue were the towball would normally go...

[Kevin B]

Also to consider is the rating of your tow bar and how it is attached. Then there is the distance from the centere of the hole in the tounge to the edge of the tounge. Will there be enough space when a shackle is fitted for a sling as well ?
Cheers Hall

Thanks, ill try find the rating plate on it and replece the mounting bolts too, also if I need to get a supersize shackle to account for this then I will

[turkeybrain]

While putting the shackle though the plate is a big improvement over using the tow ball, still be very careful about it; things can still go horribly wrong.

As happened to a couple of my mates a few months back...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/883.jpg
Note the bent rear door, broken windscreen, and the passenger seat was also badly bent (not visible).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/864.jpg

Thankfully there were no injuries.

-Martin

[ramblingboy42]

there are so many variables in a recovery.....it appears your recovery strap is rated higher than your tow hitch mounting bolts, which apparently failed......many people neglect to consider where the weakest link is....and that is not meant to be a personal attack on you turkeybrain. (jeez that sounds like one). my snatch strap is rated below my other hardware purely because of what happened above.....but if the other person has a failure, you may wear it.....its a big double bind......btw suggest you use 8.8 or 10.6 bolts if you havent already.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I have used the pin method a lot on the beach,, but only for gentle tugs, except once when it was a case of get the series 3 (and trailer!)over the lip or lose it to the tide, ripped the eye stitching quite significantly but didnt bend the pin.

[bidds]

That's horrific! (turkeybrains post)

I think the lesson from this is not to use a snatch strap, at least until you have a 'proper' recovery point set up and then only at a walking pace if absolutely required.

I've used them lots in the past but over the last year or two have noticed that LR's 4wd engineer guru for the last 40 years (Roger Crathorne) says to never ever using a snatch strap, do a little pre-tow ground prep if required and do a slow tow with a non-dynamic tow strap/rope. If anything breaks then there's little energy stored in the tow strap and things pretty much fall to the ground - at least they don't shoot through the entire car!

I've come around to Roger's way of thinking and found it take a little more time but gets the job done. I do still carry a snatch strap though for those times when no one has any grip at all: in my experience that is only when both vehicles are on wet clay.

[turkeybrain]

there are so many variables in a recovery.....it appears your recovery strap is rated higher than your tow hitch mounting bolts, which apparently failed......many people neglect to consider where the weakest link is....and that is not meant to be a personal attack on you turkeybrain. (jeez that sounds like one). my snatch strap is rated below my other hardware purely because of what happened above.....but if the other person has a failure, you may wear it.....its a big double bind......btw suggest you use 8.8 or 10.6 bolts if you havent already.

This was a couple of my mates, not me.

I agree though, the weak point was the bolts which held the tow hitch on. I had a look at the nuts and bolts after the incident, and other than some serious thread damage which would have happened in the failure, there was also evidence of rust in the threads, which would have weakened them at least a little. I know I checked, but I have forgotten what they were rated. The mounting point also isn't in line with the hitch plate, further weakening the whole system by providing a lever arm. The owner of the vehicle is planning on upgrading to proper rated recovery points before using snatch straps or other recovery gear again. I don't expect he'll put a shackle through the tongue ever again!

At least everybody lived to tell the tale.

-Martin

[101RRS]

We rabbit on about using rated equipment and quite rightly so but where tow bars are concerned we tend to over look the rating of tow bars because they are hard bolted to the car - even using a Haymen Reece type bar with a square receiver hitch the max rating of 95% of these bars is 3500kg (there are a few higher and most are less). Yet we quite happily snatch using these 3500kg rated bars with 9000kg rated snatch straps - and really in a heavily loaded vehicle, really bogged in a snatch situation there is every chance you will exceed the 3500kg of the bar and we see how often 9,000kg rated snatch straps break.

If we adhere to the rated gear philosophy we should really not be using tow bars in our snatch recovery processes.

I also agree about trying to tow before snatch - many people go straight for the snatch recovery when with a little bit of thought a simple tow may work.

Garry

[Kevin B]

We rabbit on about using rated equipment and quite rightly so but where tow bars are concerned we tend to over look the rating of tow bars because they are hard bolted to the car - even using a Haymen Reece type bar with a square receiver hitch the max rating of 95% of these bars is 3500kg (there are a few higher and most are less). Yet we quite happily snatch using these 3500kg rated bars with 9000kg rated snatch straps - and really in a heavily loaded vehicle, really bogged in a snatch situation there is every chance you will exceed the 3500kg of the bar and we see how often 9,000kg rated snatch straps break.

If we adhere to the rated gear philosophy we should really not be using tow bars in our snatch recovery processes.

I also agree about trying to tow before snatch - many people go straight for the snatch recovery when with a little bit of thought a simple tow may work.

Garry


My thoughts exactly Gary, im not a fan of snatch recovery and will try the to method first everytime,

[Tank]

Good point Gary, but you are missing the fact that if the HR type towbar is officially "RATED" by a Government agency equipped and authourised to do so, the 3500kg rating you are talking of is the WLL or SWL of the bar. If a rated bar is 3500kg SWL then it will have a Safety Factor built in of 5 or 6, meaning that the bar has been tested and has a Guaranteed Breaking Strain (GBS) which when divided by the Safety Factor (SF) will give you the RATED load of 3500kg.
My point is that no Government authourised testing/rating authourity is going to rate anything at it's GBS.
Now I am totally against "Rating" a recovery item (snatch strap, etc.) at it's GBS like the Manufacturers/Retailers of recovery equipment do. No recovery equipment should ever be used to it's breaking strain, but it seems most 4WDrivers do it daily.
So if anyone is buying proper Rated recovery equipment, don't buy it from someone who can't tell you the SWL/WLL of the item you're buying or has knocked them up in his backyard and then advertises it as a "RATED" recovery point, as far as I know only ARB tests to destruction it's recovery point, which have been renamed as "Tow Points", so be aware of what works and what might kill you, Regards Frank.

[101RRS]

Who knows what standard the towbars have to be rated at but it is unlikely to be rigging standards that you are so fond of. Towbars require certification to meet government standards for towbars (ADRs ???) just as bull bars are. what that criteria are I do not know.

Garry

[Tank]

Who knows what standard the towbars have to be rated at but it is unlikely to be rigging standards that you are so fond of. Towbars require certification to meet government standards for towbars (ADRs ???) just as bull bars are. what that criteria are I do not know.

Garry
They are not Rigging standards, they are Australian Standards (AS****) and they apply to all Rated items from Wood heaters (AS4013) to Motor vehicles.
My HR tow bar has a compliance plate showing that it complies with AS whatever the number is (can't make it out on mine) it is "Rated to Tow 4000kgs, and a towball weight of 120kgs.
If you think there is not a SF built into those figures then imagine the loads under braking when towing a 4000kg trailer, you can't tell me that those figures won't be exceded. That's why SF are included giving you a safe load that that towbar can handle, just about any item you buy will have an AS to comply with, regards Frank.

[SuperMono]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/864.jpg


A big influence in this case is that the point of attachment from the snatchstrap is a big long lever back to the fixing point bolts. Increasing the level and direction of stress applied to those bolts.

[wardy1]

Getting back to the original question, and taking on board all of the very good points made.......
I personally wouldn't be using a towbar with only 2 bolts holding it on.
If you choose to do it, make sure everything is in a very straight line so that there are no forces placed at an angle to the bar. If this happens I'd imagine that a large proportion of the stress of a snatch recovery would go to ONE bolt.(I'm not an engineer so stand to be corrected)

[Kevin B]

Thanks for the info guys, at this stage its my only option in an emergency situation, ok im off on a 4 day trip in a few weeks somwere were carrying recovery equipment would be recomended, I will only use the tow bar in an extreme emergeny and even then I will not use it to snatch with, my basic recovery kit consistests of 2x 4.7t d shackles and a 20m 5t winch extension strap, which if the need asises (im going with a nissan and a toyoto so it pob will lol) I will use to gently asist a vehicle out of what ever siyuation gets it stuck, were we are going is not extreme so I dont envision vehicles bogged to the body in black soil, however it might just be that a vehicle needs gentle assistance to get traction again thats all, better to have something than nothing at all

[Tank]

Getting back to the original question, and taking on board all of the very good points made.......
I personally wouldn't be using a towbar with only 2 bolts holding it on.
If you choose to do it, make sure everything is in a very straight line so that there are no forces placed at an angle to the bar. If this happens I'd imagine that a large proportion of the stress of a snatch recovery would go to ONE bolt.(I'm not an engineer so stand to be corrected)
I had this type of tow hitch attachment on a Ford F100 4WD some years back and I welded the tounge along it's sides and back where it attaches to the tow bar, left the bolts in as well, never had an issue , regards Frank.

[Sue]

Thanks for the info guys, at this stage its my only option in an emergency situation, ok im off on a 4 day trip in a few weeks somwere were carrying recovery equipment would be recomended, I will only use the tow bar in an extreme emergeny and even then I will not use it to snatch with, my basic recovery kit consistests of 2x 4.7t d shackles and a 20m 5t winch extension strap, which if the need asises (im going with a nissan and a toyoto so it pob will lol) I will use to gently asist a vehicle out of what ever siyuation gets it stuck, were we are going is not extreme so I dont envision vehicles bogged to the body in black soil, however it might just be that a vehicle needs gentle assistance to get traction again thats all, better to have something than nothing at all

If that's all you think you will need why not get a set of Maxtrax.. :)

[Westie]

A few notes from Tom Sheppard's book 'Land Rover Experience', published by Land Rover:
- attach the snatch strap to a rope 'bridle' attached to two chassis mounted towing shackles, part # RRC3237, on both vehicles.
- use a safety rope attached to the eye of the snatch strap and the trailer hitch to 'catch' the strap in event of towing point failure.
- maximum step back for defender 130 on wet grass/mud so as not to exceed maximum load of 3.4 tonnes on the towing point: 2.3m assuming strong acceleration in second low gear.

Usual failure point is the tow hitch, not the snatch strap.

He has an impressive photo of a bogged Rangie that has both windscreen and rear window taken out by a tow hook which ripped out of a rusty chassis on the towing vehicle.

The general message seems to be - proceed with caution!

[incisor]

- attach the snatch strap to a rope 'bridle' attached to two chassis mounted towing shackles, part # RRC3237, on both vehicles.

i always use a bridle on land rovers and even carry one in my series as well.

BUT you need to be able to get a straight pull at it...

[Loubrey]

... The owner of the vehicle is planning on upgrading to proper rated recovery points before using snatch straps or other recovery gear again...

-Martin

On a lighter note, coax him into upgrading to a proper 4x4 while he's at it...:D

I do however agree that kinetic recoveries should not be your first option (as it appears to be when ever you see a recovery these days). The commercial side of things have overtaken good sensible advice to novices and "snatch straps" are sold to any bumkin who's read about the need for a "recovery kit"

A bit of prep (possibly even a bit of hi-lift if the car is capable of receiving a lift) , insert maxtrax or the like and off you go without any violent energy transfer.

[Kevin B]

On a lighter note, coax him into upgrading to a proper 4x4 while he's at it...:D

I do however agree that kinetic recoveries should not be your first option (as it appears to be when ever you see a recovery these days). The commercial side of things have overtaken good sensible advice to novices and "snatch straps" are sold to any bumkin who's read about the need for a "recovery kit"

A bit of prep (possibly even a bit of hi-lift if the car is capable of receiving a lift) , insert maxtrax or the like and off you go without any violent energy transfer.

Totally agree, I have never liked snatch straps, ill take towing or winching anyday, and its not a safety thing, snatching just looks unnatural to me....

Saying that if I cant pull them out gently with my current setup, looks like they stay there....

[Redback]

Well I know for certain that the front and rear(towbar) recovery points are tested on the D3/4 to breaking point by Land Rover, I've seen the video of the testing.

So I am quite happy to use these points for recovery, the weak point is the strap, hitch pin or bow shackle.

I've seen some of the halfwits out there that think that the best way of recovering someone, is to tear off at the fastest speed they can, which is always going to end in tears, if you know the gear your using and take all the precautions and do it gently, 9 times of of 10 you will do the recovery.

I try and use the winch as much as I can, less chance of something bad happening.

Oh and BTW, I have a rigging background, both a crane chaser and driver.

Baz.

[HarryO]

I know the gear is all rated but they should come up with a rating for the idiot doing the snatching – Some guys go for maximum runup and then belt the crap out the accelerator when they could have achieved the same result at half the speed. I have seen one guy reverse PAST the side of stuck vehicle in WA’s black mud and then gun it – his snatch rope broke:p:p.

[Disco Muppet]

his snatch rope broke:p:p.

No! :p
I can't possibly see why.
Unfortunately as is often the case in most things 4WD, the ego comes in a lot.
It's all about getting that one metre further than the other bloke, or pulling him out in the most spectacular fashion.
All well and good until you smash someones skull with a snatch strap.
Do it right or don't do it.

[Kevin B]

Well Folks the trip was done and as it happens the Prado got bogged (kind of expected that) in a Slippery Mud hole, it wasnt deep mud or ever very sticky it just suffered a bit on Ground clearence and hung up on the underbody, i used the method that i proposed in my first post and all it needed was a gently pull hardly even felt it but it was just enought to set the prado free, i still did all the other right things like put a dampener on the strap but i dont hink it really needed it as there was no real force.

thanks all

Kevin

[Blknight.aus]

Don't put a shackle through the pin as all you are doing there is just adding one more piece that could well fail... but you can (if you don't have or can't use a recovery block) put the pin (or bolts that hold the towball in pace) through the loop in the snatch strap... I have heard of pins bending this way (which would make them very difficult to remove) but have never personally met anyone who has seen it happen ..(it's always been a friend of a friend kind of story).. :)

you need to come and see me.

Bent one recovering a toymota out of a bog but we'd had to loop a chain over the pin to get the length needed to put the recovery vehicle on decent ground.

I'f we'd had a longer or suitably rated extension strap I dont think it would have happened.