Do I need Lockers?

[Garry]

I have been considering installing lockers into my MY12 defender 90 as will be heading up to the Cape in a few months

I have read the TC threads and been subsequently confused as if they are worth the investment

Opinions please

G

[Loubrey]

Garry,

In all honesty mate, you'll be wasting money. My 90 is a 2010 2.4 and it will go anywhere I point it and the TC works superb.

Land Rover folklore has a saying that if a tricked up 90 can't go there, nothing will go there. Pumas come fully tricked out already in Australian spec and except for more grip with muddies there is very little that need improving.

To add to it, your car has the "improved" TC system as well which should theoretically make it even better than mine.:D

Cheers,

Lou

[Garry]

I will be running a set of 33" KM2s which you brought to mind so with them and a winch that has already been installed I should get most places

Thanks Mate

G

[Judo]

If I had TC I wouldn't bother with a locker. Unless you drive through mud holes for fun most weekend... then get a locker. :)

[Disco Muppet]

As stated, you won't need lockers.
CDL, winch, TC, good tyres and you'll be fine.

[Slunnie]

Personally, I think Cape York is an excellent excuse to get lockers. Carpe diem :D

[gavinwibrow]

I concur with the experts that you don't need them/have enough for the Cape.
However, having watched a new Def 90 climb a long, high, steep sandy track at Moore River a few weeks ago well driven but with some degree of difficulty getting to the top (two others of us with D2as and ATB x 2 and Trutrac x 2 respectively only just made it with help from spotters), then watched a RRC with ARB lockers x 2 and oversize tyres just amble up no probs - lockers can fall into the nice to have category. Got a birthday coming up?

[weeds]

not having driven a puma.......i have sat back and watched a few different cars with different setups

i reckon having locker installed looks after your drive line (no tracken control coming on and off, no wheel spin, less shock loading) and the tracks

i have twin arb lockers installed and have never had an issue with them, auto lockers seem to popular these days due to there cost

indeed they are a nice to have

[Slunnie]

I think good tyres are more important in the Cape, especially if you already have ETC. personally I would be looking at mud tyres before lockers. If its wet up there, or the tracks are wet then you will be very very pleased to have these. When I was up there I was running Simex JT2s and I'd put them back on again if I went again. You can do it on ATs, but from what I saw it wasn't always pretty on river crossing exits and on muddy tracks with ATs.

[n plus one]

Have you considered ATBs as an alternate to a full locker?

Can do front and rear for around the cost of a single locker and, by all accounts they compliment TC very well.

I've gone an ATB for the front of my 09 110 (not yet fitted though) with an air locker rear (waiting on Ashcrofts new diff carrier). As someone who does a lot of solo touring, I went for this option so I could get myself out of trouble (rather than being able to push deeper in).

[libertyts]

I agree with a number of the points above. Although you may not "need" lockers to go up the Cape. You will certainly protect the tracks and your drive line (if used sensibly) having lockers.

We 4wders as a community claim to "tread lightly" but then go ahead and tear up tracks because we won't accept defeat. I have seen it quite a number of times very recently and it has left me with some sour thoughts towards a couple of particular groups.

If you have the money to spend on lockers, they are an easy thing to justify in my opinion. If I had the cash, I would be buying a set as we speak!

Chris

[KarlB]

You also need to ask yourself about what aspects of your warranty will be essentially voided by fitting lockers. It would be a very expensive exercise fitting lockers (which you don't need) if you did your gearbox in on the Cape. Proving that the lockers did not significantly contribute to the failure of the box would be very difficult. Not for me!

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[Garry]

Personally, I think Cape York is an excellent excuse to get lockers. Carpe diem :D

This was my original excuse :)


Got a birthday coming up?

Funnily enough at the end of the Month :)


You also need to ask yourself about what aspects of your warranty will be essentially voided by fitting lockers. It would be a very expensive exercise fitting lockers (which you don't need) if you did your gearbox in on the Cape. Proving that the lockers did not significantly contribute to the failure of the box would be very difficult. Not for me!
:)

Well as we speak it is in now getting a new seal fitted under warranty on the rear diff, there was oil all over the garage floor :(

I think for this trip I will leave well enough alone and stick with what Landrover gave me. We will see what more trips send me if I feel I need lockers or not in the future

Thanks for all the input

G

[Disco Muppet]

The reason I chose not to get lockers at this stage were (at least in a D2) it would mean I'd have to look into stronger axles, cv joints, etc.
That and I'd rather become a more proficient driver without them, and then once I'm ready to start climbing up the side of mountains, and situations where lockers are required then I've already got all the basic level driving techniques down pat :)

[goingbush]

No, you dont NEED Lockers, as Muppet said you will need to but heavy duty axles , CV's etc
Yes a Landy can go most places without them

BUT, If you plan on keeping your Defender Long Term, I suggest TrueTracs

They make things much easier on your drivetrain, and make life easy for your axles / CV's & Traction Control works so much better. No bang & clatter.

[85 county]

you only NEED lockers, for picking the kids up from school, and Coles carpark.

[Slunnie]

You NEED lockers. ;) :D

Then you can go to places to get away from all of the 4WDers. :cool:

Almost nobody gets lockers and then pulls them out again.

Oh, and I know you want them!

[Symo]

I agree with the others here insomuch that the defender traction control system is brilliant... the best out there imho.

Having just come back from 2 months up the cape I would say they are not needed, but having said that. I have F&R lockers on my 2010 110 defender for a number of reasons.

1 traction control works when you break traction and it tries to regain traction - sometimes when its lost its lost.

2 lockers are easier on your car and the tracks, no shock loading, less wheel spin and permits you to drive up a hill at 1500 RPM in 1st low rather than race up at 3500 RPM in 3rd low just to get over a hard spot (assuming you have to get up to get home and not just there posing)

3 Going down Hill - traction control does not work going downhill. With only a CDL engaged, if you loose traction on 1 front and 1 rear wheel then gravity is in charge unless you hit the loud pedal and try and regain some traction. (takes some guts but does work). Having only 2 wheels holding you going down hill and then loose 1 its only about 0.26 seconds later till the last one lets go as well.

Mine with F&R lockers as well as CDL I can just let engine breaking take me down knowing that I only need 1 wheel to hold me.

Should you upgrade all the other bits as well.... I did but im lucky that I can afford it, but you don't have too.

I would keep away from auto lockers as they come in automatically.... maybe when you don't want them too like on the black top, on a corner, in the wet driving maybe a little too fast.....

Get a set of ARB or E locker for the rear at least. Just flicking the switch when you see a gnarly bit ahead of you makes you rest a little more comfortable in the seat - like going through Nolans Brook.... My car did it easily towing a camper but F&R locked. A rodeo coming thorough 20 mins after with no trailer drowned - similar line.... was it lack of lockers??? lack of skill? just bad luck???? who knows... I'm hi and dry and he had an insurance claim.....

My 2c.....

[Sitec]

Hi! Before Melrose, I'd have said 'Lockers' all day long, but having watched a demo of a G4 110 with traction control going through a cross axle tester I' have to also say no, you don't need lockers. The traction control was very impressive to watch. My 99 Defer 130 on the other hand has just had the Truetrac, Detroit and HiTough axle treatment so I can go places you can with TC! Good luck with your trip!!:)

[Reads90]

Don't bother getting lockers

You will break more stuff on the car. Mainly the half shafts

All you need is a winch and ground anchor and that will get you out of trouble.

But the idea when touring is to drive around an problem and not risk the car and drive through it unless you absolutely have to.

[Iain_B]

I went to the Cape in 2011, I did not have lockers, however, I did twist a rear half shaft which go replaced under warranty. Traction control is good, however, we did the OTT north to south, and Nolan's and Mistake creek were are bit of a challenge. Mistake because of the very steep exit, and Nolan's for the very loose bottom - we did not get stuck, but plenty of people do. Warranty is not much good if you drown your car. We had 33" KM2's and had to use momentum and lots of right foot to get up some of the exits. We went to a remote national park on the way up - 4 hour drive off the main road (best place on the Cape IMHO) a couple of the dry creek exits were pretty tough, took quite a few goes to get back out, if it had been just a bit wet, then it would be Maxtraks and the hand winch.

I fitted the ATB lockers front and rear and upgraded half shafts for my next trip out west, and a SD rollcage. We travel solo, want to be as far away from other people as possible. We also carry a lot of weight. With the lockers, I've found now I can just idle up the steep exits with much less risk of damaging anything.

We did the Birdsville track just after the floods, would not have made it without the Tru-track lockers in the Discovery.

So, you don't need lockers for the Cape ( you can bypass Nolans and Mistake) but if you have the money, and want some insurance and to give the missus a bit more peace of mind when you drive into a creek, then get the ATBs and upgrade the half shafts.

[libertyts]

Again, I agree with the last statement. Traction control is great. But is in no way a replacement of lockers. It does not perform the same function. If you are in a situation where the traction control is "functioning" then you have already lost traction. It is entirely possible that you will not regain traction and fail to complete the obstacle.

There is the added issue that traction control can cause some shock loading on your drive line when it functions as you lose and regain traction. This can be a whole lot more detrimental to your drive line than lockers. Again, this is taking into consideration that the lockers are used correctly and with caution. Things like, turning them on BEFORE you attempt an obstacle, not while you are on it.

I go back to the example of not regaining traction, this will also cause more damage not just to your vehicle, but to the track as well. I can't comment enough on the fact we as a community apparently subscribe to the "Tread Lightly" theory, but then go out a flog our trucks up\through\down an obstacle until we're through.

If you are going somewhere and the thought "should I have lockers installed for this trip" pops into your head, I reckon it's quite likely you will. Better safe than sorry really. No point going out and wrecking your truck and the tracks. If you can afford it, I say go for it! If you can't then you may need to find alternatives (read: Chicken Tracks) to the way you would "like" to go.

In the end, just my opinion really.

Chris

P.S. I have seen a number of people installing Tru-Track LSD's front and rear, this seems to work especially well with traction control. So not knocking traction control, it can't definitely help.

[dullbird]

you dont need lockers for the cape we did it last year in a bog standard puma with the factory tyres on pulling a ton of camper.....we did nolands, and logans a lot of it is all about how you drive..

the biggest thing I believe you should have is winch, then tyres as I said we did it in the general grabbers.

we had to use the winch to winch out of palm creek on the other side (but so did the D4 that had big tyres and muddies, may of also had an E diff cant remember now)...because it had been raining and all the wood that the dumb dumbs had placed in the rutted holes prevented the car from doing what it needed to do, had they have not been there we all believed the traction control would of walked the cars out. but holes and wet wood are not a good mix.

I personally dont believe you ahve to get bigger tyres either there seems to be a trend that if you change your tyres you have to put 33/35s on..yes they have their advantages but its not a necessity IMHO.

Just in repsonse to better to have lockers for travelling through Nolands etc....when we stopped to talk to the campers at the highlight points of the OTT it appeared that most of the people that drowned or seriously damaged their cars were the ones that had spent a lot of money tricking their cars up before hand..so im talking lockers the lot...so just because you have lockers doesnt mean your not going to get in trouble...I also believe that they can install false confidence in people....the good thing about having a car that you know has limitations is you drive more cautiously and perhaps rationalise your decisions better. You perhaps dont put your cars in to silly situations in the first place.

[ProjectDirector]

.......I also believe that they can install false confidence in people....the good thing about having a car that you know has limitations is you drive more cautiously and perhaps rationalise your decisions better. You perhaps dont put your cars in to silly situations in the first place.

Totally agree with your statement, I had a dual cab Hilux for 5 years with no winch, no bull bar, no lockers but with one tirfor. Yes I got stack a few times but I had to think where i was going.
Save your money for good Tyres and good lights.
Cheers

[Disco Muppet]

Couldn't agree with the above posts more.
How do you think people got around before there were lockers? ;)
It's as much about how you drive, as what you drive.

[Tombie]

Mr Muppet... Great question!

Technical driving is the best IMHO and really makes driving interesting as you would know!

All those stating that "once you need TC it's already too late..."

Well I don't know many with lockers who turn them on *until* it's too late either.


Learning to pick lines, suitable tyre pressures and throttle and gear choices is FAR more important than lockers.

[Bess]

G-day everyone, I'am interested in these posts as I still have a lot of mods to make to my MY11 Defender for solo touring. Still to do is a winch & draw system.
The "idea" of locked diff/s interests me a lot as I can see benefits for sure but I'am a little unsure of the benefit to locked diff/s on a steep & loose descent. In my very limited experience with steep & loose descents the factors of gravity/weight & poor grip are the real problem ( same as going up hill really ) so if I have my diff/s locked but the tyres cannot maintain a purchase on the surface would I not still be changing my shorts at the bottom:no2:. As I said I have limited experience & would be happy for the education of those more experienced. Regards Chris.

P.S: what are our thoughts on a 9000lb Warn winch for the Defender.

[Disco Muppet]

G-day everyone, I'am interested in these posts as I still have a lot of mods to make to my MY11 Defender for solo touring. Still to do is a winch & draw system.
The "idea" of locked diff/s interests me a lot as I can see benefits for sure but I'am a little unsure of the benefit to locked diff/s on a steep & loose descent. In my very limited experience with steep & loose descents the factors of gravity/weight & poor grip are the real problem ( same as going up hill really ) so if I have my diff/s locked but the tyres cannot maintain a purchase on the surface would I not still be changing my shorts at the bottom:no2:. As I said I have limited experience & would be happy for the education of those more experienced. Regards Chris.

P.S: what are our thoughts on a 9000lb Warn winch for the Defender.

From my limited understanding, having lockers for slippery down hill sections means you're less likely to have on wheel slip and skew you off course, and if all the wheels are rotating at the same speeds it will tend to steer you straighter. Probably also handy to have drive to all 4 wheels if you need a quick adjustment.
That's just my limited take on it :D

9000lb should be okay, unless you're really fossilized.

[Bess]

Thanks Phantom, That makes sense even if the tyres are all struggling to maintain grip they are all at least doing the same thing so I should have better control. I guess there's a chance that at least one wheel may find purchase & start to control the descent even more. Thanks for your input.:)

[Tombie]

Lockers for downhill should only be the rear locker...

[Disco Muppet]

Lockers for downhill should only be the rear locker...

Wouldn't that tend to make the back try and overtake the front?
Besides the obvious impact lockers have on steering.
Not arguing, just curious :)
Cheers
Muppet

[Tombie]

Makes the rear tend to track straight whilst allowing the front to adjust.

The rear provides a drag type behavior and holds it inline.

[Bess]

Locked rear only for steering control I assume & I guess that we want the rear holding us back, not the front slowing down & causing the rear to want to pendulum around??.

As for the 9000lb my previous Defender TD5 had a 9 on her when purchased. I only had to use it once to drag my sorry arse up a step logging track after I reversed into a wet erosion hump:wallbash:. I had it double snatched but she still seriously struggled to get me out so I was concerned a 9 was a little light on considering the new bus will be heavier when fully set up.:spudniklifter:

Regards Chris.

[Garry]

Thanks for all the great feedback, there are a lot of good comments in the mix here and I am looking forward to the trip

G