ACE is it worth waiting for

[Excesselec]

Hi Slunnie
I am looking to buy a D2 TD5 and was wondering if ACE was a good thing , reading about your shocks maybe I don't need it ,what do you think , appreciate your input .
thanks and regards Andrew

[OffTrack]

Hi Slunnie
I am looking to buy a D2 TD5 and was wondering if ACE was a good thing , reading about your shocks maybe I don't need it ,what do you think , appreciate your input .
thanks and regards Andrew

Think of ACE as anti-roll bars that respond to cornering forces when on road to keep the body flat, and go soft when required on rough tracks to help articulation.

Land Rover Discovery II .Active Corner Enhancement.ns.wmv - YouTube

Land Rover Discovery II ACE - YouTube

Those who have it on their D2's tend to swear by it, and those who don't can't see the point.

My D2 has it and I would look for an ACE equipped d2 if I had to replace the current one.

cheers
Paul

[TD50WA]

Think of ACE as anti-roll bars that respond to cornering forces when on road to keep the body flat, and go soft when required on rough tracks to help articulation.

Land Rover Discovery II .Active Corner Enhancement.ns.wmv - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4opZF1mDjM)

Land Rover Discovery II ACE - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENByJ1-zx6k)

Those who have it on their D2's tend to swear by it, and those who don't can't see the point.

My D2 has it and I would look for an ACE equipped d2 if I had to replace the current one.

cheers
Paul

I second that. IMO best system ever.

Cheers
Kev

[SiddersC]

ACE & SLS is an excellent combination, even more so when towing.

Worth waiting for

I think a lot of the ACE issues are relating to UK vehicles subject to salted roads and subsequent corrosion of the metal lines, not too much of an issue over here

[Excesselec]

Hi Folks
I am looking to buy a TD5 03-04 for extended trips , desert Trips and Cape York , I intend using as a daily drive to sort out any problems and prove the vehicle , adding the necessary toys as described in this great forum to bring it up to spec .
My question is should I wait for a vehicle that has ACE fitted , is it reliable , worth having , I also intend doing a 50mm lift and some bigger tyres .

Any comments opinions would be greatly appreciated , there seems a lot to learn ,all good fun and part of it , these cars seem to turn into a hobby as well as a means to an end.

Thanks and Regards Andrew

[Toppa]

Whilst i have never driven a non-ACE Disco, i love mine - it corners on rails, well almost. Its still got great articulation off road (i have a coils) and ive never had any issues with the ACE - even after filling the reservoir with brake fluid!!

Id wait for one if you can.

[Slunnie]

There is no question about it. I would wait for ACE, it is very reliable and most definitely worth having. Better on road and better off road, and even more so with a lift.

[TD50WA]

As per my signature, I have a hilux, a rangy, and the d2 with ace. Guess which one I like driving the best?
The d2 of course. The ace is fantastic. I have driven a d2 without and there is nothing wrong with them either, but the ace is well worth the wait and if you have to pay a little more for one, the do so, you won't regret it. :D

[OffTrack]

Yes, hold out for ACE.

[stallie]

Haven't driven one without it, but love nipping around roundabouts etc in mine. Handles like a mini. Well, kinda... :)

[BIG O]

Got both..a non ACE D2 and an ACE D2. Both stock suspension apart from Bilstein shocks The ACE D2 handles much better on road and when loaded , better on sand too. The other always feels heavy but I like it on the rougher tracks..not sure why ..more feel and tad softer maybe.

[vnx205]

Alternatively, you could work on the principle that parts not fitted weigh nothing and can't break down.

That looks like an awfully complicated system with a lot of critical parts. (Says a Defender driver who was quite satisfied with his Series III when he owned it.)

How reliable is the ACE?

[OffTrack]

Alternatively, you could work on the principle that parts not fitted weigh nothing and can't break down.

That looks like an awfully complicated system with a lot of critical parts. (Says a Defender driver who was quite satisfied with his Series III when he owned it.)

How reliable is the ACE?

In Australia it seems to be the most reliable of the "tech" systems on the D2.

Many of the horror stories about ACE come from countries where the roads are salted during winter. This seems to badly corrode the ACE pipes which results in loss of fluid and failure of other components like the pump which can get very expensive.


cheers
Paul

[Disco Muppet]

Hmm....
Never driven one with, so I can't really comment on ACE vs Non-ACE.
But I have no trouble cornering at speed in mine, stiffer springs may be influencing that though. :burnrubber:
Go with whatever suits your budget best, If I were looking to replace mine I'd certainly be looking for one with ACE....

[SiddersC]

When I was looking for my Disco 2, I had a certain criteria - D2a, SLS, history etc, ACE was on the "Would Like" list, but not essential.
I almost gave up on having it as I was looking at later models, most of which were "Classics", and just an optioned up base model, hence no ACE, unless it was added as an option at initial purchase - I never saw one with it fitted.
I then found the one I ended up buying, it had a good history, needed a few things doing, but that was bargaining power, and it had everything I wanted including ACE.
When I first got it I didnt really notice the ACE doing anything, as I was just babying it around, I think it is essentially inactive under 40kph.
When i gave it a bit it handles superbly, sweeping corners are a dream and stability around roundabouts and faster corners is unreal.
I have a Suzuki Vitara as a diaily commute car and on some corners it feels as though I am going to fall out of the window, it leans that badly.

A prime example of how effective it is was over the March Long weekend we were travelling down toward Port Wakefield, 110kph, Camper in tow, friend following us in his new FJ Cruiser, when a car towing a boat infront of us decides to do a last minute left turn, his brakes locked and I had nowhere to go except round him - Swerved around it like we were doing 10kph in a car park, no swaying no bucking, nothing - superb.
Friend even commented how good it handled form behind, wonder if the Cruiser would do as well?

I guess the moral of this little story is, wait for the right one, they are getting on a bit now, but there are still some excellent examples available - buy the best you can afford, at the spec level you really want, get it checked out by someone that know what they are looking at and factor in a few $$ for post purchase repairs and fluid changes.

And most importantly - Enjoy It!!

[Slunnie]

Was this thread merged? Either that or I missed this.


Hi Slunnie
I am looking to buy a D2 TD5 and was wondering if ACE was a good thing , reading about your shocks maybe I don't need it ,what do you think , appreciate your input .
thanks and regards Andrew

Hey Andrew, I think I commented earlier re ACE but the roll of ACE and the roll of the shocks are quite different. The videos that Paul linked show really well about what ACE does, it's purpose being related predominantly to (body) roll resistance when cornering and allowing the suspension to articulate freely and without the restriction of anti-sway bars while offroad.

Relating to shocks, there seem to be a lot of people who also think that shocks can also be used to control body roll, and my opinion is that this line of thought has very minor merit. In relation to body roll or rocking, stiffer shocks will only control the speed it will happen at, but nowhere fast enough to make much difference in my opinion with the exception possibly of a sharp turn in, but the body will roll basically the same amounts irrespective of shocks.

The real purpose of the shocks are to to keep your tyres on the ground. Tyres are like basket balls, you can bounce them just the same which is what happens with every minor and major bump. The springs then keep it bouncing. The shock controls the speed that the suspension by absorbing the bounce energy which prevents the tyre bounce. If the tyres are firmly planted on the ground with good controlling shocks (ie, not worn out or comfort spec) then you will have bag loads of traction and stability on rough surfaces, bumps etc. The shocks also control the body from bouncing around and making everybody car sick.

I guess what I'm saying, is that although suspension is an integrated system, the shocks and ACE have very different purposes. I would look for an ACE vehicle and put good shocks into it. My Disco with ACE and good shocks has between 6" and 7" of combined lift depending on tyres and it has a heavy 3/4 Defender ARB roof rack and it handles really well on all surfaces, with all loads and it corners really well. Fantastic offroad also.

[OffTrack]

Yes the ACE bits from the other thread were merged as it was essentially same q. In two threads.

[Excesselec]

A big thank you to everybody re my question on ACE, I can see the merits of the system and how it works , so this has completely answered my question , I currently drive a Patrol which has a 2 inch lift and it sways from side to side , especially when the roof rack is loaded so I can see this will be much less of a problem with an ACE equipped Discovery , I am happy to wait until I find one .
So thanks again I am new to the site and have now become addicted as I read all the different threads and posts .
Cheers Andrew

[twr7cx]

My vehicle is 5" higher than standard (suspension lift and larger tyres) and thanks to the ACE still handles great even with the roof top tent fitted on top!

[d2dave]

My old D1 is nearing retirement. I was contemplating a D3 or a defender. I was agonising over this for a long time, until I drove a D2 with ACE. My dilemma was over.

So I began the search. I had to have a D2a HSE. It had to have ACE SLS and a service history. Took me 8 months and I found one. Absolutely love it.

03 145,000 km

[brisbrutale]

How can you tell if there's ACE or not?

[Disco Muppet]

How can you tell if there's ACE or not?

ACE light on the dash, Power Steering reservoir will be split, one for PS fluid, one for ACE.

[d2dave]

If it corners like a F1 car it has ACE. I have it and love it. The one downside is that all the stuff on my console ends up on the floor. SWMBO does not like it.

[Disco Muppet]

If it corners like a F1 car it has ACE. I have it and love it. The one downside is that all the stuff on my console ends up on the floor. SWMBO does not like it.

You get that with non ACE models, I managed to leave me favourite pair of sunnies in the middle of a busy roundabout once :D

[d2dave]

You get that with non ACE models, I managed to leave me favourite pair of sunnies in the middle of a busy roundabout once :D

That's because the vehicle was leaning over that much that they fell
out the window.:)

[Disco Muppet]

That's because the vehicle was leaning over that much that they fell
out the window.:)

Not really, I have exceptionally stiff springs. Makes flex a bit of a non event but it still handles nicely :)
Now the lifted GU with no sway bars I followed, that's a different story...

[joel0407]

I notice a few comments here about the ACE being pretty reliable. Well bugger me the other stuff must be pretty bad.

Maybe I've just been unlucky to have a failure but it has the potential to leave you high and dry (or wet if it's raining or your in a creek).

I had the flexible hose running to the front drivers side ram burst. It had worn through and weakened the sheath enough that when I was pushing harder than usual (it does handle well) around a corner it burst.

Started with the ACE light orange. Ended with it flashing red and beeping.

I made it home without damage but I didn't know just how bad it could have been. I have red that if the system runs dry, you are pretty much guaranteed the pump will seize. If the pump seizes, the fan belt will break. You could carry a non ACE fan belt but due to the pulley location, you'd need to remove the pump before fitting the shorter belt.

I removed the blown hose. When they build Discoverys, they start with this hose. The hose has a teflon core so no field fitings. I had to get fittings brassed on the end of the metal pipe and then a new flex peice made with screw on fittings. Good thing now that if it happens again it's just a matter of unscrewing and a new bit of flex hose.

It's an absolutly fantastic idea and I love how it handles all whilst still allowing max flex but there aren't many spares you can carry to patch it up to get you home. SLS is excellent too but if you carry a spare air bag and fitting to pump it up by hand you can replace a punctured bag eaisly and isolate the rest of the system and pump up the bag by hand. Hydraulic rams and pumps aren't that easy.

Just thought I'd give my opinion. I live in the NT now and I'll still take it to some reasonably remote places and cross croc infested creeks and rivers but it's something that sits in the back of my mind to worry about.

Happy Days.

[SiddersC]

I had the flexible hose running to the front drivers side ram burst. It had worn through and weakened the sheath enough that when I was pushing harder than usual (it does handle well) around a corner it burst.



That should have been picked up in a service, checking for Chaffing and rubbing is essential on all vehicles nowadays.

I had a coolant hose rub through on mine, managed to fix it well enough to get home, but I now pay extra attention to all hoses that have the potential to rub

[joel0407]

That should have been picked up in a service, checking for Chaffing and rubbing is essential on all vehicles nowadays.

I had a coolant hose rub through on mine, managed to fix it well enough to get home, but I now pay extra attention to all hoses that have the potential to rub


I had only had the vehicle for just over a week so I hadn't got to those kind of things at that time.

Thing is you can patch a coolant hose and top up with water from what ever source you can to get you home but high presure hydraulic oil is another thing. Even if you compare it to high pressure diesel lines. They run around the engine bay at the most. ACE lines run to all 4 wheels and are suceptable to all kinds of damage. Brake lines can be isolated too. Front and rear brakes are already seperate and as much as vice grips will often be enough to stem a brake line.

Happy Days.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I'm fairly sure that somewhere in that great resource that is The Good Oil Forum
there is a listing for a belt to use if your ACE carks it.

Just add one to your box of spares, it'll fit neatly alongside the airbag, coil, plug, tube, bulb, assorted spanners, various hoses, etc etc ;):D

[joel0407]

I'm fairly sure that somewhere in that great resource that is The Good Oil Forum
there is a listing for a belt to use if your ACE carks it.

Just add one to your box of spares, it'll fit neatly alongside the airbag, coil, plug, tube, bulb, assorted spanners, various hoses, etc etc ;):D

No good mate, The shorter non-ACE belt would run through the middle of the ACE pump. You need to remove the pump to fit the belt.

Happy Days.

[Graeme]

I carried a 8PK1560 belt trimmed to 7PK1560 that did the job without having to remove or change anything. It didn't have as much contact with the PS pump pulley but it didn't slip in my testing.

[morpheus]

Hi guys,
Apologies for dragging this thread out - but did ACE come standard on ES model disco 2s? I know of a bloke selling his 2000 v8 ES - seems like a good car, leather seats, low kms and newish (10k) motor. Interested to know whether it has ACE. He didn't seem to know and I haven't yet seem the car up lose yet.

Cheers
Morpheus

[Graeme]

I forgot to mention that my short belt was for a TD5.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

If he doesn't know about the ACE,,
what else doesn't he know about?

[morpheus]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing... He said he has only owned it for a year though.

[joel0407]

If he doesn't know about the ACE,,
what else doesn't he know about?

I have to agree with this. My Disco is my first Land Rover and I know now there is plenty I didn't know to look for and the guy that owned it before me knew far less and he'd owned it for at least 5 years.

Happy Days

[Disco Muppet]

Not everyone is as passionate about their landies as we are, to some people it's just a car that takes them from A-B.
They're clearly immune to leaky charms.

[northiam]

Well, after developing a leak on the ace pump pressure hose I decided to remove the ace entirely. Fitted non-ace anti roll bars and ace pump delete idler and 7PK1800 belt.

Cannot feel any difference cornering, the D2 has a smoother ride and I dont have worry about failing again.:)

[ozscott]

The advice to hang out for ACE is fine...but you might hang for a LONG time. Dont let lack of ACE put you off a good well serviced D2. Its hard enough finding a well serviced one. It was an option that I didnt go for when I bought my D2 new. D2'''s handle very very well without it. Obviously with it they handle better again. Mine handles well and better with a few PSI in the Coilrites. ACE gives you the best of both worlds on and off road, but its not a deal breaker. As for being the best Reliability of the techy stuff in the D2, that might be correct until option B is done on the ABS system and then the ABS becomes very reliable.

Cheers

[mattg]

My ace rams have started leaking and that is after only 400,000 km

[mattg]

I have been trying to find a disco for a mate he is hell bent on a d2a manual with ace and I have not seen one yet in 4 months of looking. Very very few D2a got the ace option I believe it was 5k by the time they got the that. I saw a an import manual hse that had it and it sold for 24k 2 years ago.

I love it in mine

[d2dave]

I have been trying to find a disco for a mate he is hell bent on a d2a manual with ace and I have not seen one yet in 4 months of looking. Very very few D2a got the ace option I believe it was 5k by the time they got the that. I saw a an import manual hse that had it and it sold for 24k 2 years ago.

I love it in mine

I was hell bent on a D2a HSE Td5, with reasonable kays, a good service history, and I found one. After reading this thread I feel blessed.

After driving a chipped Td5 with ACE (around windy roads) I was hooked. As I hate blanking plates it had to be a HSE

[Disco Muppet]

I was hell bent on a D2a HSE Td5, with reasonable kays, a good service history, and I found one. After reading this thread I feel blessed.

After driving a chipped Td5 with ACE (around windy roads) I was hooked. As I hate blanking plates it had to be a HSE

Considering what you got yours for, you should feel like you've won the lotto :D
Blanking plates though?

[d2dave]

Considering what you got yours for, you should feel like you've won the lotto :D
Blanking plates though?

Every time I drive it I feel like I have won lotto.

Blanking plates are put in place on poverty pack vehicles, where, on a high spec vehicle there is a switch for one of the bells and whistles

[mattg]

Man dual or auto mr whippy?

[d2dave]

Auto. Did not want a manual, and it was not an option for high spec D2's

[d2dave]

My ace rams have started leaking and that is after only 400,000 km

Is this a sarcastic comment, or are you really ****ed off that they did not last longer?

[LandyAndy]

Is this a sarcastic comment, or are you really ****ed off that they did not last longer?
I took it as the way it was meant;);););););)
Andrew

[d2dave]

I took it as the way it was meant;);););););)
Andrew

Which is?

[Disco Muppet]

Which is?

If you have to ask..... :D

[mattg]

64894This shows the Offroad effect of ace better then anything I have seen. Found it in an old LRO Mag

[OffTrack]

Matt,

Do you know which issue of LRO that article is in?

cheers
Paul

[fatman]

I am an ACE fan but how they compared a 100" wheel base and a 110" wheelbase in the very same obstacle and took that pic(and conclusion?)

[loanrangie]

I am an ACE fan but how they compared a 100" wheel base and a 110" wheelbase in the very same obstacle and took that pic(and conclusion?)

I agree, the 110 is also over on a greater angle so not a fair comparison.

[twr7cx]

Did they use a coil spring or SLS Discovery? I'd be interested to see what difference that makes too.

THe point raised above re the different wheel base dimensions is very valid. However, I think the pictures do still show that the ACE allows some good flexibility still.

[twr7cx]

ACE lines run to all 4 wheels and are suceptable to all kinds of damage.

Your ACE system runs to your wheels? Something strange going on there!

Also pretty sure ACE lines only run down one side of the vehicle as the hydraulic arm is only on one side. There isn't separate left and right arms.

[mattg]

I thought both trucks have a very similar angle on the front wheel . Don't thing they were fussy enough to put the camera on a tripod. And get the trucks in exactly the same spot. Interesting shot is my point.
Not trying to have a go at a 110. Just pointing out the decent flex from a stock Ace disco.
No detail on SLS or not. Most disco I have seen with ace were 7 seaters is fare chance it is an SLS truck.

[mattg]

64930

Stock SLS and ACE. No other truck to compare it to.

[mattg]

LRO may 2001 page 91.
Just a short note on why the discovery is a real Land Rover

[joel0407]

Your ACE system runs to your wheels? Something strange going on there!

Also pretty sure ACE lines only run down one side of the vehicle as the hydraulic arm is only on one side. There isn't separate left and right arms.

Mate, I've grown to love the system but damn it's hard to repair. I had a leaking ram which I wasn't too worried about until I got a light on the dash.

The light would come on red if I turned right after starting and orange if I turn left after starting.

I used Nanacom to test DCV1 and DCV2. I could hear DCV1 click but nothing for DCV2 and Orange light would come on.

Today I removed the valve block and attempted to remove the valves. DVC1 came out easily but DCV2 wont budge. Murphy's law the valve I want to check doesnt come out.

I hooked up 12v and both sound click the same.

I reinstalled them and DCV1 clicks repeatedly as it did before but DCV2 now clicks once and thats it.

I'm now guessing DCV2 is sticking open.

Next guess is going to be ordering a second hand valve block for the UK. I have seen them before for about $130 but the freight will be the killer.

It's great when it works but a major headache when it doesnt. I like to show off how good the Disco is and taking the time to fix it is becoming a hobby for me.

The Disco suspension is costing me a fortune. The way I'm doing it is far from cost effective. A set of rear 2 inch lift springs would cost me $220. The compressor alone to rebuild the SLS was $239, Bags x3 $450, Valves and ari connections $150 plus. The end of the day I'm spending $1000 plus for something that's just a little bit better for everday use but impressive at the limits.

If you want to drive normal through a round about, you would notice the differance. Push it hard and you will. Same off road, get a little crossed up and you wont know the differance. If you need that last 6 inches of diagonal flex, ACE will show up.

I dont recall my previous posts but I was pretty negative on LR. It's growing on me a little now. They are very unconventional

Happy Days.

Happy Days.

[OffTrack]

No detail on SLS or not. Most disco I have seen with ace were 7 seaters is fare chance it is an SLS truck.

The truck in the scans is a fitted with SLS. The pics come from a 4 way comparison done in LRO October 2000 between Freelander, D2, Defender and P38a Rangie. The discussion about the D2 mentions using the dash button to raise the rear for extra clearance, so clearly SLS equipped.

cheers
Paul