Monitoring engine?

[LoveB]

how do you guys monitor yours? scangauge? not sure if the nanocom works on pumas?

or have you fitted external gauges? (auto meter,defi and such)

I dont really do hardcore 4x4 (if any) nor do I tow anything right now but I suppose later down the road it would be good to have something to monitor the engine with... was thinking either a scangauge or just get a set of defi gauges or something..

What stuff should I monitor anyway? obviously oil/water temp atleast? boost? exhaust temp?

[djam1]

The Nanocom Evo has instrument mode for the Puma

[oldyella 76]

The nanocom evo will not work in instrument mode on a 2.2 litre puma. I have had one for 12 months and has been back twice to no avail. It will not work in the instrument mode. They have offered me a full refund but I will wait for an update if they ever do it ,although they have yet to admit that it doesn't work on the 2.2 litre.
Lindsay.

[LoveB]

Hmm... So guessing at this stage only scangage/external gauges may be the go for me.

Or the nanocom if they update..

[Lorryman100]

For every day use I have an Ultragauge fitted. I used to use the scangauge but the Ultragauge allows you to monitor the MAF airflow as well as giving you the option to set a multitude of alarms and it is smaller in bulk compared to the scangauge.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/409.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/410.jpg

Very reasonably priced as well:

UltraGauge Automotive Information Center and OBDII Scan Tool (http://www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/index.htm)

HTH Brian.

[LoveB]

Looks really good. Good price too! Will most likely end up going with that then. It's got just about everything I'd want to monitor too. Thank you :D

[Jacko44]

Is the ultra-gauge easy to fit?

[Lorryman100]

Yes, just like the scangauge it just plugs into the OBDII socket. It only works on Pumas and not TD5's etc.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/427.jpg

Brian.

[29dinosaur]

So what are you monitoring with your ultragauge that is really critical?

(Sorry I'm only asking this as I am new to pumas. My son drives a 300tdi and he monitors egt, coolant temp, turbo boost... and he has a coolant alarm...)

[Loubrey]

As per the link to the web site, the gauge is capable of monitoring 75 odd different aspects. A lot is just the different scales (Celsius vs Fahrenheit), but its able to check temperatures and pressures in a number of locations in the engine as well as monitor the electronic management system.

MAF, coolant temperatures ,boost etc can be set as max/ min ranges with audible or visual alarms if needed. It also reads fault codes etc.

All in all $100 AUD well spent...

Cheers,

Lou

[29dinosaur]

As per the link to the web site, the gauge is capable of monitoring 75 odd different aspects. A lot is just the different scales (Celsius vs Fahrenheit), but its able to check temperatures and pressures in a number of locations in the engine as well as monitor the electronic management system.

MAF, coolant temperatures ,boost etc can be set as max/ min ranges with audible or visual alarms if needed. It also reads fault codes etc.

All in all $100 AUD well spent...

Cheers,

Lou

Ok - so what are the critical temps and pressures to monitor and what standards are there available - highs and lows...?

[mools]

I have no real interest in this - my engine is a Storm not a Puma. But I have to say... Wow! That Ultra gauge is good value. It cost me nearly 3 times that much for an EMS2, then you have to fir the thing.

[LoveB]

29dino, I would guess its the same. Coolant, boost, egt. Maybe oil pressure?

[29dinosaur]

For every day use I have an Ultragauge fitted. I used to use the scangauge but the Ultragauge allows you to monitor the MAF airflow as well as giving you the option to set a multitude of alarms and it is smaller in bulk compared to the scangauge.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/409.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/410.jpg

Very reasonably priced as well:

UltraGauge Automotive Information Center and OBDII Scan Tool (http://www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/index.htm)

HTH Brian.

How'd ye run the wiring up to the unit?

[Steve223]

Just wondering would that also work on my Discovery 3 TDV 2005?

[iClick]

For every day use I have an Ultragauge fitted. I used to use the scangauge but the Ultragauge allows you to monitor the MAF airflow as well as giving you the option to set a multitude of alarms and it is smaller in bulk compared to the scangauge.
HTH Brian.

Thanks for the heads up Brian - the website says that it gives distance to empty figures, do you use this function and is it accurate?

[Lorryman100]

So what are you monitoring with your ultragauge that is really critical?

(Sorry I'm only asking this as I am new to pumas. My son drives a 300tdi and he monitors egt, coolant temp, turbo boost... and he has a coolant alarm...)

I monitor 8 systems that are displayed on the first screen of the Ultragauge, though on the Puma IIRC there are 48 sensor outputs that the Ultragauge can read.

1. Engine Temp: This sensor is located in the engine head and is called the CHT (Cylinder Head Temp) sensor and it does not measure the coolant temp but the head temp. It remains steady for me at about 86-90 degrees C, this then rises up to the highest I have seen it at 104 degrees C towing my boat up a rather steep hill. The ironic thing is that the IPAC temp gauge won't start rising into the red area until 105 degrees C. Reasons for monitoring this temp is mainly when towing a heavy load as it allows me to ease of the throttle when needed. Also the EMS uses the information from this sensor to bring in the programmed overheating strategy to put the Puma into limp mode if the engine overheats.
2. Air Intake Temp: I use this mainly to tell me the outside air temp and confirm that the hot film for reading air temp within the MAF sensor is working as it should.
3.MAF sensor air flow (MA1 g/s): This gauge allows me to see the MAF failing over time. The MAF sensor uses a hot film element that cools as air passes over it and the voltage required to maintain 200 C plus the ambient air temp is how the EMS measures the Air coming into the airbox. As the sensor fails the Puma will start using more diesel in the burn to compensate for the lower air intake reading from the MAF even though the same amount of air is entering the engine, its just that the EMS doesn't know this.
4. EGR % Flow: I don't use this function any more as my EGR is disabled through an Alive remap. This gauge allows you to see how the EGR is operating throughout the engine rev band. So say you had the throttle wide open yet the EGR was showing anything other than zero and the Puma drove like a bag of spanners then by looking at this gauge you would ask yourself why the EGR valve was open?
5. MAP psi: Manifold Absolute Pressure psi, I monitor this because the MAP sensor is located just before the inlet manifold and after the EGR gas return pipe. If there was a leak anywhere in the boost system then the readings at the MAP would be on the low side including vehicle power. As I have a remapped Puma I have seen the MAP give readings up to 35psi under heavy load. Also as the MAP is located after the EGR gas return pipe it gets gummed up with black gunge and will give a false value if not kept clean, just remove it and spray clean it with carb cleaner.
6. Baro kPa: Barometric pressure in kPa, I use this to work out the boost PSI the old fashioned way, MAP psi minus Barometric pressure gives you boost psi.
7. FR PSI; Fuel Rail PSI, This sensor measures the fuel pressure in the common rail. If there is to much pressure the limiting valve can let go or the rail dumps the pressure causing the Puma to enter limp mode and a tested DTC of P1169 being logged in the EMS along with the MIL lamp.
8. BST PSI: Boost PSI, this is just the actual Boost pressure that is being reported to the EMS.

By monitoring the above gauges it can give you a heads up when something happens whilst driving, overheating, fuel pressure on the HP side, Boost hoses, sticking/failing EGR etc etc.

I also have one alarm setting and that is for the CHT sensor. This gets classed as a coolant alarm but it is not as the CHT gives head temp though it is the coolant that maintains this temp in the first place. I live in Scotland and the lower temp alarm is just as important as the high temp alarm

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/720.jpg


HTH Brian.

[Lorryman100]

@29dinosaur: I just ran the cable between the windscreen and the dash and the down the drivers side of the dash into the fusebox and plugged in the lead to the OBDII socket.

@iClick: Sorry never used that function as the Puma has all the aerodynamics of a three bedroom semi and fuel returns to prove it!!!!

[Lorryman100]

Just checked and the Ultragauge can read 48 sensors on the Puma out of a possible 87.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/405.jpg

[Lagerfan]

Great posts Lorryman100, think you deserve a commission from these guys, I've just ordered one!

Thanks again.

[29dinosaur]

Great posts Lorryman100, think you deserve a commission from these guys, I've just ordered one!

Thanks again.

Yep. Me too. Ordered one about four hours ago... Now to get a remap a well..... Alive or BAS....?

[29dinosaur]

Hey Lorryman where in Scotland are ye located?

[wally]

Yep. Me too. Ordered one about four hours ago... Now to get a remap a well..... Alive or BAS....?

Thanks for the info. Just ordered mine too.

[Loubrey]

@29dinosaur: I just ran the cable between the windscreen and the dash and the down the drivers side of the dash into the fusebox and plugged in the lead to the OBDII socket.

@iClick: Sorry never used that function as the Puma has all the aerodynamics of a three bedroom semi and fuel returns to prove it!!!!

Lorryman,

Did you remove the OBDII socket from its bracket to facilitate this fit?

I understand the routing down the back, but in its normal position the socket sits pretty flush to the front of the fuse box cover and anything plugged into it stick out by a considerable margin...

Cheers,

Lou

[Lorryman100]

What i did was to plug in the scangauge/ultragauge etc and then undo the OBDII brackets fixing screw and gently push the whole ensemble back into the fuse box. It wont go all the way as the OBDII bracket won't allow this. The OBDII leads supplied by the scan tool companies is the low profile 90 degree one so by undoing the mounting screw and using this cable the fuse box cover goes back on with a slight hump visible once fitted. I know that some people push the OBDII lead out of its mounting bracket and then feed the socket around the back of the fuse box. Though you would need to pull it back into place for dealer visits/breakdowns etc so that you can plug in a diagnostic tool. Others have used an OBDII splitting cable so that the scan tool can be left connected and there is another OBDII port to allow the use of a diagnostic tool. Just remember to unplug the scan tool before using a diagnostic tool.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/89.jpg

You can see the OBDII plug for the scangauge and the splitting OBDII lead in the below picture

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/90.jpg

The ultragauge comes with a similar 90 degree OBDII plug as the scangauge.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/91.jpg

HTH Brian.

[Lorryman100]

Also I did not use the windscreen mount supplied with the Ultragauge as it was far to long for the Pumas dash. Instead I had a few old mobile phone sucker mount brackets lying in the garage and I cut one of them down to fit the Ultragauge. Instead of making a mounting bracket I used velcro to hold the gauge onto the mount and as the Ultragauge weighs very little it has worked a treat. You don't even need to remove it from the velcro to use the three function buttons on the back as I just gently push the relevant corner on the screen front to activate the menu screens. However it can easily be removed to allow me to set up new gauges/screens etc in comfort from the drivers seat.

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Just remember to unplug the scan tool before using a diagnostic tool.


Interesting.

Is plugging in a scan tool and a diagnostic tool at the same time going to permanently break anything? Or will they just not play nicely together while both connected?

While I'm being a newb, does OBD misbehave if you plug in 2 scan tools at the same time? I was thinking of a full time ultragauge and part time (touring / off road navigation) laptop over split OBD ports...

:confused:

Thanks in advance
FWD

[copba]

Yes, just like the scangauge it just plugs into the OBDII socket. It only works on Pumas and not TD5's etc.



Brian.

Any idea if there is a similar one which does work on TD5's? As opposed to going the whole ems / madman permanently mounted sensor route?

[Lorryman100]

Interesting.

Is plugging in a scan tool and a diagnostic tool at the same time going to permanently break anything? Or will they just not play nicely together while both connected?

While I'm being a newb, does OBD misbehave if you plug in 2 scan tools at the same time? I was thinking of a full time ultragauge and part time (touring / off road navigation) laptop over split OBD ports...

:confused:

Thanks in advance
FWD

If you have two tools plugged in and the first tool is reading the EMS sensor information then the second tool won't be able to communicate with the EMS as the first tool is already communicating with that module. Also the OBDII socket supplies the power for the tools plugged in. You would be able to communicate with the ABS module though, not sure about the IPAC as it would be communicating with the EMS over the CANBUS. The 10AS communications are done with the ignition off as that is when that module is most active. Then there are possible conflicts of two tools trying to communicate with the same module that may lead to issues I haven't tried or wish to do so. If you do try it will you let me know of any issues?

Brian.

[Lorryman100]

Any idea if there is a similar one which does work on TD5's? As opposed to going the whole ems / madman permanently mounted sensor route?

Sorry, I don't know of any similar tool that would work on a Td5 other than the madman ems gauges.

Brian.

[FeatherWeightDriver]

If you do try it will you let me know of any issues?

Will do - it's on my (long!) list of things to get to.

From what I have read the theory says it should work as long as the two readers don't have the same device id / address.

I have found mixed reviews of people getting it to work / not getting it to work but as the devices / configs are all different the only way to know for a certain setup seems to be to try it.

So far I have not found any cases (yet) of bricking the on-board computers, but then again that does not mean it isn't a possibility...

[slug_burner]

What I read here suggests that two gauges will work, or guy did two loops of his test circuit

Ultra-Gauge beats ScanGauge at ~1/3 the price - Gas Savers - Fuel Efficiency Forum (http://www.gassavers.org/f69/ultra-gauge-beats-scangauge-at-1-3-the-price-12565.html)

[29dinosaur]

Ok ultra gauge is now fitted and doing it's thing.

Do Puma owners put in a low coolant gauge in as well?

[Blknight.aus]

as a heads up...

CHT should be very nearly the same as the coolant temp.... due to some white man magic and potential coolant system failures this isnt the case.

IF you have a choice of accurately measuring the head temp VS the coolant, measure the head temp.

[29dinosaur]

Thanks black knight. Anything else that you'd be monitoring? Respect your advice..... I'm more familiar with monitoring living things....

[iClick]

What i did was to plug in the scangauge/ultragauge etc and then undo the OBDII brackets fixing screw and gently push the whole ensemble back into the fuse box.
HTH Brian.

Thanks for the heads up re the Ultragauge - mine turned up the other day and seems to be operating well - although I've read that it can be rather flaky when reporting correct fuel consumption for the Defender. I'll have a better idea once I've run a few tanks through and calibrated it properly.

BTW, I didn't need to remove the screw to get the OBDII plug pushed back - just used a small flat screw driver to push the clip on the socket and it slipped back.

The gauge fits nicely on top of the steering wheel infront of the instruments.

[Lorryman100]

BTW, I didn't need to remove the screw to get the OBDII plug pushed back - just used a small flat screw driver to push the clip on the socket and it slipped back.

Ahhh, it sounds like you have removed the plastic OBDII socket from the metal retaining bracket which in turn is held in place by the screw in the fuse box. Result either way though. I bought the ultragauge originally just to monitor the EMS outputs and have never used the fuel consumption options so can't offer any comment on that particular function.:BigThumb:

[LoveB]

I'm about to order my ultra gauge. How are you guys liking yours? and probably already covered but whats the most important to monitor??

[Lagerfan]

I'm about to order my ultra gauge. How are you guys liking yours? and probably already covered but whats the most important to monitor??

Works a treat, very happy with it. Plenty of good advice here on mounting and plugging it in helped setting it up too. I think one thing not mentioned is you're better off leaving it plugged in permanently. Each time you unplug it it needs to go through the "scanning gauges" step when you plug it back in and turn ignition, no biggie, and only takes 10-15 seconds. However, if you drive off without waiting for it to finish... cue random flashing dash lights. I managed to get battery, TC and several others flashing at me at 100kph heading up the highway to Ballarat, freaked me out until I twigged what it was. Moral: plug it in and leave it set up. Downside is light fingered types might think it is worth stealing I suppose.

Haven't had a chance to really configure any specific gauges yet (detected 57) so most useful so far is just ambient temp!

[LoveB]

Cool beans. Just put my order through. How long does delivery usually take?

[29dinosaur]

Great tool..toy.. Took off fuse cover and just left plugged in.. Engine temp its really stable at 83-86 , on highway without load and at 110kph.. egr is interesting to watch. I intend doing a remap when have the money so will close off. Other stats are interesting too to watch. Have set up three to four screens. Is really customizable... You won't go too far for the money... Have fun..

[Lagerfan]

Cool beans. Just put my order through. How long does delivery usually take?

Delivery was great, ordered Weds night and had it by the following Tues, FedEx from Texas.

[29dinosaur]

Cool beans. Just put my order through. How long does delivery usually take?

Probably by next Tuesday or Wednesday...

[LoveB]

Thats fine then.. bit of a gift mid work week lol
I think i ordered the velco mount and the regular. I have aount for my old gps that looks similar

[iClick]

Finding the Ultra-Gauge to be a nifty unit. I haven't been through a tank of fuel yet to calibrate the consumption figures however from what I've read on the Net is that those figures are not so reliable for the Defender. A bit of a shame as I was hoping to gain a useful distance to empty calculation!

For me, the best place to mount the Ultra-Gauge is in front of the instruments using the standard adapter. You get good access to the buttons and the display is easy to read.

I've temporarily used the MacGyver method to attach the mount (Gaffer Tape) for the time being. I'll fix it permanently this weekend (or maybe the next ;) )

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/863.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/864.jpg

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Cool beans. Just put my order through. How long does delivery usually take?

Mine was ordered on a Sunday Sydney time, and had it in my hands on Thursday afternoon :D

As per feedback earlier in this thread it works best if you plug it in and leave it. Swapping cars is also a bit of a pain as you need to reconfigure the engine size & fuel tank size, and cars without fuel senders that means you loose the ability to calculate distance / time to empty.

I found on older cars that don't use the ISO protocol the device sometimes does not detect button presses, but on newer cars it works like lightning.

Getting the screens setup takes a bit of time too, but once you get it settled you never have to worry about it.

[Grappler]

These look great.

Ive just ordered 2 one for my 130 and one for my sons 110 puma.

In anticipation, Ive dowloaded the manual.

Which OBD2 protocol does a PUMA use? Has there been any issues using the default Force protocol "Auto discovery"

I was also looking at the fuel sender modes. Does Smart mode work in a Puma?

[Loubrey]

They do work great, but the Tdci has limited sensors and at least 50% of the functions remain unused.

If I recall correctly the self discovery worked fine and the car unfortunately doesn't support many of the fuel monitoring ability of the Ultra Gauge.

Cheers,

Lou

[Grappler]

Has any one used the trouble code read/clear feature of the UG?


I hooked my UG up to RRS that at present has 2 DTC in the engine ECU
My BBS faultmate showed an EGR fault (because its blanked) and P0625 because my alternator is faulty. Both of these are in the Engine management ECU
The UG reported DTC=0

[iClick]

Has any one used the trouble code read/clear feature of the UG?


I hooked my UG up to RRS that at present has 2 DTC in the engine ECU
My BBS faultmate showed an EGR fault (because its blanked) and P0625 because my alternator is faulty. Both of these are in the Engine management ECU
The UG reported DTC=0

That's a worry. I wonder what would be a simple 'fault' that I could create which should test if the UG is in fact doing what it's supposed to.

[Grappler]

I received a reply from Ultragauge, to my query about the UG not finding DTCs.

UltraGauge requests and displays trouble codes according to the OBDII standard. If no codes are found, it must mean that the vehicle's ECM has no codes that fall under the OBDII or the ECM is not fully OBDII compliant in this regard

So according to Ultragauge its a Landrover thing:no2:

The ultra guage is great for looking at engine data, but I wouldnt rely on its capabilty to detect or clear fault codes