Softening the ride.

[Disco Muppet]

Evening all.
Trying to work out how to make the ride a bit less harsh in my D2.
Currently has a 2" lift with Extra HD King springs and suspension stuff shocks, not sure what the rates are, can probably find out.
It's entirely possible that it's just the roads around Orange, as I've driven on roads in Vietnam that were better than most of the roads around here :D
I'm currently running about 40Psi in the rear, about 37 in the front.
245/70/16 Scorpion ATRs.
ARB bar, 12k lb winch, extra battery.
I'm still experimenting with tyre pressures, when I first looked at them they were all over the shop, having some semblance of order in the tyre pressure department has helped, but I don't want to sacrifice handling or braking performance for the sake of a softer ride.
Oh, and I do mainly highway Kms with medium offroad work when I get the chance.
Any suggestions welcome :)
Cheers
Muppet

[robbotd5]

Muppet. Your current suspension will not produce a soft ride. But you could start by lowering you tyre pressures to R 38 and F 30 psi.
Regards
Robbo

[Disco Muppet]

True, not after a Range Rover soft ride.
But my dads navara with leaf springs and 33s is smoother.
It's just quite unpleasant, even crossing things like railway lines.

[walker]

I would be finding out what rate the springs are first. So many of these off the shelf kits are way too hard.

I am running 180lb in the front, custom length to give a 2" lift.

I did have 270lb in the rear which gave a great ride, but when fully loaded they were too soft and the rear sunk a lot.
This week I removed the springs and put in factory air bags with 2" spacer. The ride is fantastic and I know that no matter what load I put in I can pump it up to the correct height.

But if you don't want to go this route then I reckon 320lb in the rear would be perfect.

If you are in the Orange area, you should get in contact with Slunnie. He lives just out of Orange and what he doesn't know about D2 suspension isn't worth knowing. ;)

[simonmelb]

Agree - looks like a combination of firm tyre pressures and the HD springs - I havnt used those shocks but I have standard height heavy duty king springs on the front of my D2 with Konis and the ride is quite supple.

I assume the tyres are LT rated in which case you can down to high speed dirt road pressures to see how that goes in the mean time while you look at the other variables - as per the Pink Roadhouse
http://www.pinkroadhouse.com.au/Pink/graphics/docimages/tyre-pressure-pdf.pdf

Cheers
Simon

[Disco Muppet]

I would be finding out what rate the springs are first. So many of these off the shelf kits are way too hard.

I am running 180lb in the front, custom length to give a 2" lift.

I did have 270lb in the rear which gave a great ride, but when fully loaded they were too soft and the rear sunk a lot.
This week I removed the springs and put in factory air bags with 2" spacer. The ride is fantastic and I know that no matter what load I put in I can pump it up to the correct height.

But if you don't want to go this route then I reckon 320lb in the rear would be perfect.

If you are in the Orange area, you should get in contact with Slunnie. He lives just out of Orange and what he doesn't know about D2 suspension isn't worth knowing. ;)

The reason I went with new suspension in the first place was to counteract the weight of winch/bar/battery up front, it sagged like nothing else before the new springs.
And I may have bumped into Slunnie at some point in the past..... :angel:

[walker]

Yes, the problem is the off the shelf spring counter the sag by being much harder.
I have always gone the other route and had springs made that were still fairly soft but much longer. This works well even with all the weight of bar, sliders, winch etc.

The hard part is working out the length needed but once you know the weight at each corner it is easy to work out spring length needed.

When I bought my D2 last year it had HD springs in and I had them tested at the spring manufacturer. The fronts were 300lb and the rears were 420lb. No wonder the vehicle felt like a rock.

[Tombie]

Your rear HD springs are likely pulling around 360-410lb

Get softer rate rears or load up a lot more!

[Slunnie]

I agree that your tyre pressures are way too high. Factory is 28/36, although I soften up to 32/35ish. That will take some of the sharpness out.

I however disagree that the springs are the problem. Having played with shocks, the shock bump valving specifically is what brings most of the sharpness into the ride within the suspension and it affects the ride significantly more than spring rate. I dont think spring rate alters ride as much as what people will have you believe.

[Slunnie]

Your rear HD springs are likely pulling around 360-410lb

Get softer rate rears or load up a lot more!
I'm pretty sure King wont be more than about 360lb/in. King are generally pretty light for the D2. I think Lovells tested my King raised at around 250lb or similar.

[OffTrack]

Muppet. Your current suspension will not produce a soft ride. But you could start by lowering you tyre pressures to R 38 and F 30 psi.
Regards
Robbo

X2

37psi on the front is way too hard. Try 32F which should compenate for the winch, bar, etc. You shouldn''t need more than 38psi in the rear unless you are really loading up. 38psi placard rear pressure is based on 5 passengers plus luggage.

[Disco Muppet]

I agree that your tyre pressures are way too high. Factory is 28/36, although I soften up to 32/35ish. That will take some of the sharpness out.

I however disagree that the springs are the problem. Having played with shocks, the shock bump valving specifically is what brings most of the sharpness into the ride within the suspension and it affects the ride significantly more than spring rate. I dont think spring rate alters ride as much as what people will have you believe.

So you're this "Slunnie" person :p

I'll have a play with the tyre pressures tomorrow, in between fixing the leaking diff breather, extending the rear, and relocating my auto ECU.
Cheers all
Muppet

[OffTrack]

The scorpion atr lt245/70r16 are 1150kg max load and 65psi max inflation.

The stock front axle loading is 1100kg, so if you assume +50kg for winch and bar this means roughly a 1150kg axle loading.

1150/(1150x2)=0.5
65psi x 0.5 = 32.5psi

Same principle applies to the rear.

It should give you a starting point at least.

[Disco Muppet]

The scorpion atr lt245/70r16 are 1150kg max load and 65psi max inflation.

The stock front axle loading is 1100kg, so if you assume +50kg for winch and bar this means roughly a 1150kg axle loading.

1150/(1150x2)=0.5
65psi x 0.5 = 32.5psi

Same principle applies to the rear.

It should give you a starting point at least.

Bar alone is 60kg.
Winch is about 42kg from memory.
Still.
Thanks, I'll try 32F maybe 37R

And I know the scorpions over-inflation characteristics, tyre shop exploded one about 20m from me :D

[Slunnie]

Mine on the weighbridge with a steel bar, cargo barrier, dog on the front seat and I cant remember the fuel load was 1.1t front and 1.2t rear.

[Lrdriver]

:D:D:D:D
I agree that your tyre pressures are way too high. Factory is 28/36, although I soften up to 32/35ish. That will take some of the sharpness out.

I however disagree that the springs are the problem. Having played with shocks, the shock bump valving specifically is what brings most of the sharpness into the ride within the suspension and it affects the ride significantly more than spring rate. I dont think spring rate alters ride as much as what people will have you believe.


what he said ! LR use soft shocks for a reason

[Slunnie]

The scorpion atr lt245/70r16 are 1150kg max load and 65psi max inflation.

The stock front axle loading is 1100kg, so if you assume +50kg for winch and bar this means roughly a 1150kg axle loading.

1150/(1150x2)=0.5
65psi x 0.5 = 32.5psi

Same principle applies to the rear.

It should give you a starting point at least.
I agree with the end result of this formula in this circumstance, but I'm not sure I agree with the formula. Mind you any method such as 4psi (affected by road temps, braking and tread pattern) or contact patch (minimal variations at road pressures) would be rule of thumb as it doesnt take into account any dynamics (cornering and braking tendancies) of the vehicle or tyre (eg profile and lateral stability of the carcass). In the of the Disco2, the front tyre pressures are on the placard as being low to increase stability during turn in, and I strongly suspect the rears pressures are also quite high to increase mid corner stability. Likewise the rear are very high when towing, even if the ball weight is very low to prevent the vehicle being moved around with sidewall movement.

[RisingSun]

When I had my suspension done, 2 inch lift on kings, the rear springs are actually the range rover set, not the discovery. That being said when I am driving by myself with an almost empty tank, very floaty. Get some passengers and fill the tank and it rides very well indeed.

[Kevdrover]

I have to agree with Slunnie on the shocks. The moment I changed from original the ride hardened up.
Currently springs are Dobinson +60Kg progressive on the front, Dobinson +220Kg progressive on the back. RAW 4x4 bigbore shocks all round.
36 psi all round tyre pressure until we put the camper on and then increase rear to 38 psi.
High speed dirt road travel at 28psi is stable and comfortable

[OffTrack]

I agree with the end result of this formula in this circumstance, but I'm not sure I agree with the formula. Mind you any method such as 4psi (affected by road temps, braking and tread pattern) or contact patch (minimal variations at road pressures) would be rule of thumb as it doesnt take into account any dynamics (cornering and braking tendancies) of the vehicle or tyre (eg profile and lateral stability of the carcass). In the of the Disco2, the front tyre pressures are on the placard as being low to increase stability during turn in, and I strongly suspect the rears pressures are also quite high to increase mid corner stability. Likewise the rear are very high when towing, even if the ball weight is very low to prevent the vehicle being moved around with sidewall movement.

Actually the formula accounts for the tyre construction - the stiffness of the sidewalls is directly related to the maximum loading and pressure. The loading/inflation also encapsulates the difference in sidewall height so you don't really need to factor that in. There is an additional adjustment for width, profile and diameter but the difference is so small, less than 0.5 psi, that it can be safely ignored.

The front and rear placard pressures should give close to the same sidewall deflection/springing rate/footprint on all tyres if the vehicle is loaded as per assumed conditions. There might be adjustment for other factors but if this is the case the deviation from calculated is 1-2psi at most.

Cheers
Paul

[Disco Muppet]

Well, I put the fronts to 32 and rear to 37 today.
It certainly seems to be a bit smoother, still rattles a few things but it doesn't cause my ashtray to rattle loose anymore.
Steering is perhaps a touch softer, but it was quite sharp before so it's still nice.
Immediately evident when I reversed in to the garage tonight though.
Cheers
Muppet

[Gaudough]

X2

37psi on the front is way too hard. Try 32F which should compenate for the winch, bar, etc. You shouldn''t need more than 38psi in the rear unless you are really loading up. 38psi placard rear pressure is based on 5 passengers plus luggage.

The lower pressures will cause you to scrub the edges off the tyres. I have Pirelli ATR as well and use 38 all round.

Regards Gordo Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[OffTrack]

The lower pressures will cause you to scrub the edges off the tyres.

I rolled out of a B** J*** with new Michelin Latitude Cross pumped to 40psi all round and the ride was ****ing awful. After contacting Michelin I was told "run them at placard", which I have done for the last 25,000km. I get even wear across the tread, and no evidence of scrubbing at the edges.

[Yorkie]

Immediately evident when I reversed in to the garage tonight though.
Cheers
Muppet

still no reverseing camera then? sounds like you cannot reverse without hitting anything!. :p :D

[sheerluck]

........Immediately evident when I reversed in to the garage tonight though.
Cheers
Muppet

You really are having a bad spell at the moment! Hope your Dad understands still :p

[Disco Muppet]

Ha de ha de ****ing ha :p
I'll have you know I've only ever reversed into one thing before, and all that did was crack the plastic number plate frame.
Left $20 with a note in the door.
Dad is still being cool, I mean he owned two landies, introduced me to the joys of Monty Python, Frank Zappa, Pink Floyd, etc etc etc so he must be pretty :cool:
And a reversing camera is on the cards, with a new slide out screen head unit.
I'm sure dad will appreciate it :D
For any interested....
When Phantom met Belle...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/04/399.jpg (http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/DiscoMuppet/media/Liberty_zps090ee233.jpg.html)
The large ding in the guard is from the tow ball, but hopefully it can be fixed...
Cheers
Muppet

[OffTrack]

It must be contagious. I backed into a tree while parallel parking in the city the other day. The back corner has been pushed in and sideways. Even managed to dent the roof.
59562

[Disco Muppet]

It must be contagious. I backed into a tree while parallel parking in the city the other day. The back corner has been pushed in and sideways. Even managed to dent the roof.
59562

Ute conversion on the cards? :p

[schuy1]

UH OH!! :o I may have started something the other night :D running late taking the girl into karate, jumped in the Disco , into reverse, right hand down, back, and just as Gen said,MUMS CAR!! Bump!!:( Lucky Lucky!! the passenger tyre on lock just bumped the drivers side bumper of the Cruze and popped a clip! Didnt even scratch it :) just pushed the plastic back on its clips and all good :D Well people will sneak up and park behind!!
Now all I have to do is live it down........................:(
Cheers Scott