Widest tyres on 300 Tdi

[GyroLandy]

What would be the widest tyres I can ghet away with on my 1994 300 Tdi Defender with a 2 inch lift?

Want to go for muddy's but don't want to do any body work changes.

[Loubrey]

Hi GyroLandy,

You talking wheels and tyres (offset changes and wider wheels) or just tyres on 1994 Freestyle alloys?

285/75/16 is the widest that will fit OEM alloys and that's a bit of a push already (waiting to get smacked with regulations in a moment! ;))

I've seen 315/70/16 on a Defender before, but I wasn't crazy about the look personally. Obviously fitted on serious offset steel wheels with a significant width increase and that was not in Australia...

Cheers,

Lou

[Brad110]

Look at 255/85/16 as well. An inch or so taller without the rubbing.
Work well with 40mm lift.

[MR LR]

Really depends on the wheels, like 7" wide (LR alloys) can only legally have 265's, so there is that to think about too, a wider offset 8 or 10" wide steel wheel will allow you to get wider tyres on
Of course then you have to keep it within the most lines so as not to modify the body

[GyroLandy]

Thanks,

I want to use my stock standard steel rims, powdercoat them bloack and stick the biggest wheels on there possible.

Will the 285/17/16 fit on the standard rim? Will I need to change anything to prevent rubbing?

Will the turning circle remain the same?

[Loubrey]

As per MR LR jnr's post, its most probably not legal to do it which will prevent any shop fitting them for you in any case...

They will definitely rub on standard offsets and the only way to address that would be the turning stops which in turn will affect the turning circle as well.

Widest suggested then would be the 265/75/16 which is an approved Land Rover size or the 255/85/16 which is a fraction narrower, but a LOT taller...

Cheers,

Lou

[GyroLandy]

So going for either the 255 or 265 I can fit them straight to the standard rim with no offset, spacing, widening of the flare or changing the bump stops?

[29dinosaur]

As per MR LR jnr's post, its most probably not legal to do it which will prevent any shop fitting them for you in any case...

They will definitely rub on standard offsets and the only way to address that would be the turning stops which in turn will affect the turning circle as well.

Widest suggested then would be the 265/75/16 which is an approved Land Rover size or the 255/85/16 which is a fraction narrower, but a LOT taller...

Cheers,

Lou

I have Mickey Thompson 265/75/16 on standard puma alloys and they rub the springs and have terrible turning circle... I think the standard rim is +30 offset.


OP - my son has a 1994 300tdi and it's not difficult to widen the guards using garden edging and then put on -25 off Les Richmond 8" steel rims, 33" Maxi Bighorns. BUT - I reckon that as soon as you do this all other sorts of geometry change and you chase things that need modification.

[Loubrey]

Yep!

In metric measurements these are the three ones that work standard on the car with no modification other than a lift.

1. 235/85/16 - Standard on new Defenders
2. 265/75/16 - Used to be standard and the size my current Puma has fitted (BFG KM2)
3. 255/85/16 - Nicest looking tyre for Defenders with a lift IMO

The attached picture has both Defenders fitted with 255/85/16 (the older BFG KM Muddies). The 110 and my 90 has both got a 2" lift. You'll also see that the 90 is wearing standard Freestyle Defender alloys, so standard offset.

Cheers,

Lou

[jboot51]

Thanks,

I want to use my stock standard steel rims, powdercoat them bloack and stick the biggest wheels on there possible.

Will the 285/17/16 fit on the standard rim? Will I need to change anything to prevent rubbing?

Will the turning circle remain the same?


Your standard steel rims would be 6 inch I'd assume !

[manic]

I have 285/75/16. They are BFG All Terrain, came with the defender when I bought it and were practically new so I stuck with them.

Started off on standard suspension and 7" wide steel wheels. The rear wheel would rub the spring and come up to the tub on articulation. The front rubbed the radius arms on full lock and had to have the steering stops properly set, enlarging the turning circle to intergalactic proportions.

I've since lifted 2", put on extended bump stops and switched the tyres onto alloys with an increased offset. No more rubbing on spring or tub and improved turning circle (still not great).

At one point I also had 30mm hub centric wheels spacers (in UK) which IMO perfected the set up - nice stable wide track and good turning circle. The alloy and spacer combo was still lighter than the steels I had before! Unfortunately I had to remove them for import to Auz.

So basically - 285/75 require a bit of work to sit right and then you end up with a set up that is not going to please a roadworthy inspector.

If its width and not so much height you are looking for then maybe switching to 8" wide offset rims would give some better options. Its mostly the height of the 285 tire that restricts the turning circle. With 8" rims you could probably get a shorter and wider tyre than the 285 with fewer issues.

If your landrover steels are 6" , they are no good for wide tyres!

Size calculator:
Tire size calculator (http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html)

[MR LR]

You can't legally put 265's and probably 255's (anyone know) on a 6" wide rim, which LR steelo's are

[manic]

So going for either the 255 or 265 I can fit them straight to the standard rim with no offset, spacing, widening of the flare or changing the bump stops?

255's are tall skinny tyres. If you want a wide tyre, its not for you. They would probably require you to adjust your steering stops (reduce turning circle).

[isuzutoo-eh]

You can't legally put 265's and probably 255's (anyone know) on a 6" wide rim, which LR steelo's are

Gee I thought the standard steel rims on 110s and 90s were 5.5" wide, not 6". 130 steelies are 6.5" I think.

[Loubrey]

255's are tall skinny tyres. If you want a wide tyre, its not for you. They would probably require you to adjust your steering stops (reduce turning circle).

Manic,

Yes reasonably tall and skinny, but they do look good on a Deefer (as seen on that photograph)!

No adjustment to the steering at all with the Freestyle alloys though.

GyroLandy,

I might have given you a bit of a bum steer on the steelies... :eek: If they are 6" as the guys suggest it does limit you quite a bit.

Cheers,

Lou

[GyroLandy]

Thx guys, so what would be the maximum one would put on the standard 6" steel rims?

[TonyC]

Thx guys, so what would be the maximum one would put on the standard 6" steel rims?

If your Defender is a 110 then standard wheels are 5.5X16" and the standard 7:50R16 are as wide as you can go.

If it's a 130 then you have 6.5X16" wheels and you can go to 235/85R16 (Standard size on new Defenders) or 255/85R16 (taller and wider and will increase you turning circle).

Any other sizes will need different wheels.

Disco 1 steels are 7X16" and open up a bigger range of tyre sizes.

Tony

[GyroLandy]

Thanks, so the biggest I could go is 235/85R16 on the standard rim.

So now it seems I would need other rims. Which ones should I be looking out for if I want a steel rim that I can powder coat black and fit the 255/85/16 tyres on?

[TonyC]

Thanks, so the biggest I could go is 235/85R16 on the standard rim.

So now it seems I would need other rims. Which ones should I be looking out for if I want a steel rim that I can powder coat black and fit the 255/85/16 tyres on?

No!

If your Defender is a 110 then you have no options other than the standard 7.50R16.

If you Defender is a 130 you can run the standard 7.50R16, 235/85R16 or 255/85R16.

If you want to run a 265/75R16 you need a 7" rim

7.50R16, 235/85R16 and 265/75R16 are all about 32 inch, IE it won't change your gearing or speedo

255/85R16 are a bit over 33 inch and have a noticeable effect on gearing, speedo and turning circle

The taller and/or wider the tyre the worse the turning circle will be, assuming the wheels offset is the same.

For what it's worth I run 255/85R16 on standard 130 wheels on a 130, it makes the speedo spot on and takes the turning circle from huge to slightly more huge :D

255/85R16 are a rare size in Aus BFG or Maxxis only

Tony

[n plus one]

255/85R16 are a rare size in Aus BFG or Maxxis only

Tony

Cooper ST too.

[slug_burner]

GyroLandy

TonyC has given you the summary for Defenders.

If you want wider steel wheels there are lots of aftermarket options probably starting at $120-$150 a wheel, sunraiser are popular aftermarket option.

Cheaper secondhand options can be had, Discovery 1 steel wheels are a popular now fairly cheap option, they are strong but heavy. I have seen them for about $50 a wheel. If you keep an eye out you get plenty of them with tyres which are usually the Disco 1 tyres which are too small for Defenders. You would have to ditch the tyres (here is (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Land-Rover-Discovery-1-Wheels-Tyres-Wheel-nuts-/321117984291?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ac41f9623) a set on evil bay at $100 at the moment.

[MR LR]

Sorry my mistake, yes 110 steel wheels are 5.5" wide, 130 are 6"
However I think Disco 1 are only 6.5"?! Can anyone confirm this?

[isuzutoo-eh]

Sorry my mistake, yes 110 steel wheels are 5.5" wide, 130 are 6"
However I think Disco 1 are only 6.5"?! Can anyone confirm this?

D1 Steelies are 7" wide. 130 steelies are 6.5" wide You got 110 steelies right this time :)

[MR LR]

D1 Steelies are 7" wide. 130 steelies are 6.5" wide You got 110 steelies right this time :)
*facepalm* I meant to write 6.5 for 130 haha
I always thought the D1 steelies were narrower than the alloys though?!

[isuzutoo-eh]

No idea about alloys, sorry.

[GyroLandy]

Thx Guys, had a look at Nugge t's defender in Members Rides and see he has fitted the 285/75/16 on an 8" rim. What are the views on doing this, how much would one need to change to accept this setup.

If the bumpstops need to be changed does that limited travel i.e articulation?

The other size I'm looking at is the 285/85/16 which seems rare but there are a few muddy brands that make a 280/85/16. Any views on this?

If I go 8" black rims what would be the best brand/make to source 2nd hand? Was there a Land Rover with an 8" steel rim?

[Loubrey]

Nugget has done a LOT of work to his Defender to set it up exactly the way he wants it. I'm sure he will be able to list the details, but its safe to say its pretty well departed from standard.

On Defenders the radius arms limit the amount the inner wall of the tyre can swing inwards. To fix this you can change the offset to move the wheels outward, but doing that has turning circle penalties.

The next problem is your wheel arches and spats or flares. Moving outward brings the outer wall tread into contact with the wheel arches and flares. I followed Nugget's thread on the significant modifications he has done to his arches and flares to accommodate those tyres.

The long and the short is that moving away from the three sizes posted earlier would all require significant modification where the price of second hand steel wheels would be the least of your financial concerns.

The next question would be "why" you are keen on such wide tyres? Except for the "look" they offer very little to improve off road performance. They add very marginally to your low pressure footprint (larger diameter adds significantly more and there are many threads with the math behind this argument), they seriously handicap you in deep mud and they significantly increase fuel consumption both on and off road.

Everyone to his own, but at a $100 for those e-bay Disco 1 wheels posted earlier and with 255/85/16 BFG KM2's fitted would be the way I would go...

Cheers,

Lou

[jimr1]

If your Defender is a 110 then standard wheels are 5.5X16" and the standard 7:50R16 are as wide as you can go.

If it's a 130 then you have 6.5X16" wheels and you can go to 235/85R16 (Standard size on new Defenders) or 255/85R16 (taller and wider and will increase you turning circle).

Any other sizes will need different wheels.

Disco 1 steels are 7X16" and open up a bigger range of tyre sizes.

Tony
I put 265/75 /16 on disco steel rims I found that they pubbed on the rear spring hanger , at articulation not happy five new tyers ,big mistake , then had to look at options at minimum $. I ended upgoing 5 new 20mm steel offsets ,they just keep it legal (inside guard)must say no effect on turning circle once stearing stops were adjusted .

[isuzutoo-eh]

The next question would be "why" you are keen on such wide tyres? Except for the "look" they offer very little to improve off road performance. They add very marginally to your low pressure footprint (larger diameter adds significantly more and there are many threads with the math behind this argument), they seriously handicap you in deep mud and they significantly increase fuel consumption both on and off road.

Cheers,

Lou

^^ This!
Big tyres can and do serve a purpose, but usually big is in relation to height, not width, the width only being a factor of the height.
Land Rovers have traditionally been a skinny tyred vehicle, and for good reason! Wide tyres are usually seen on street cars pushing massive horse power, not stifled little 4 and 5 pot diesels trotting out a dozen underfed ponies under the bonnet. A Defender isn't a v10 Toureg or Cayenne!
I'd happily swap my 255/85/16s for the narrower but taller 9.00x16 if I could get a decent tread pattern at a decent price...

[LowRanger]

^^ This!
Big tyres can and do serve a purpose, but usually big is in relation to height, not width, the width only being a factor of the height.
Land Rovers have traditionally been a skinny tyred vehicle, and for good reason! Wide tyres are usually seen on street cars pushing massive horse power, not stifled little 4 and 5 pot diesels trotting out a dozen underfed ponies under the bonnet. A Defender isn't a v10 Toureg or Cayenne!
I'd happily swap my 255/85/16s for the narrower but taller 9.00x16 if I could get a decent tread pattern at a decent price...

Juddy has just what you need coming ;)

[isuzutoo-eh]

Juddy has just what you need coming ;)

I did say 'decent tread pattern' as against an artillery tractor pattern-I have almost tractor tyres on the Series... and as much as Juddy's price for his Petlas 9.00x16s is probably good, it isn't anywhere nearly as good as 255/85/16 Bighorns even at the local rip-off merchant that can't even fit my wheels on his balancing machine!

[Loubrey]

See what you mean...:eek:

Just been on the Petlas website and that is some scary looking tread patterns, especially the military ones (only 18" and 20" though). Which one is the guys bringing in a 9.00x16? I tried to search and only came up with road going truck tyres in a 16...

The Turkish/ English translations is a good read though...:D

[isuzutoo-eh]

Petlas NT3, see:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/verandah/172672-750-x16-900x16-600-x16-new-tyres.html#post1897691

[Loubrey]

Thanks Mark!

They are pretty hard core, but very much in keeping with the doctrine of the Camel Trophy...

Cheers,

Lou

[LowRanger]

I did say 'decent tread pattern' as against an artillery tractor pattern-I have almost tractor tyres on the Series... and as much as Juddy's price for his Petlas 9.00x16s is probably good, it isn't anywhere nearly as good as 255/85/16 Bighorns even at the local rip-off merchant that can't even fit my wheels on his balancing machine!
It doesn't matter how they are on the bitumen,at least you will know that they will work offroad,and are very unlikely to stake a sidewall:p

[GyroLandy]

Done a bit more research.

Looked at picking up the Disco rims on E-bay for $100 but thought I would still have to powder coat black etc. Found a place in Victoria that sells 16x7 and 16x8 new rims at $120 per rimm and they have already been powder coated.

16 X 8 DYNAMIC SUNRAYSIA WHEEL DISCOVERY RANGE ROVER 5 X 165.1 4X4 4WD RIM | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/16-X-8-DYNAMIC-SUNRAYSIA-WHEEL-DISCOVERY-RANGE-ROVER-5-X-165-1-4X4-4WD-RIM-/180846259948?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a1b46eeec)

Any views on these?

IF I decide to go for the 255 or 265 as previously discussed, which is best teh 16x7 or 16x8? Can I run thee tyres on the 16x8 for in case I decide to go bigger later?

[isuzutoo-eh]

You can run the 255 or 265 width tyres on 8" rims, but better on a 7" rim. Make sure the rims are for D1s and RR Classics, or Defenders; as D2s, P38s and later Rangies run a different stud size and won't fit a Defender.


Hey Wayne, if I want terrible on-road handling I'd nick these off my Series:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/1421.jpg
Take-offs from LRPV/SRV/RFSVs etc, one still has camo paint on it...

[n plus one]

Done a bit more research.

Looked at picking up the Disco rims on E-bay for $100 but thought I would still have to powder coat black etc. Found a place in Victoria that sells 16x7 and 16x8 new rims at $120 per rimm and they have already been powder coated.

16 X 8 DYNAMIC SUNRAYSIA WHEEL DISCOVERY RANGE ROVER 5 X 165.1 4X4 4WD RIM | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/16-X-8-DYNAMIC-SUNRAYSIA-WHEEL-DISCOVERY-RANGE-ROVER-5-X-165-1-4X4-4WD-RIM-/180846259948?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a1b46eeec)

Any views on these?

IF I decide to go for the 255 or 265 as previously discussed, which is best teh 16x7 or 16x8? Can I run thee tyres on the 16x8 for in case I decide to go bigger later?

16X8 is a more versatile wheel size but 16X7 is a better size for a 255/85.

I wrung my hands for a couple of months and then order 16X7 rims... That convert to 16X8 when the beadlocks are fitted :D

[GyroLandy]

Thx, what is the downside of the 8" rims?

What does it mean "That convert to 16X8 when the beadlocks are fitted"?

What would be the biggest one can run on the 7"?

[n plus one]

Thx, what is the downside of the 8" rims?

What does it mean "That convert to 16X8 when the beadlocks are fitted"?

What would be the biggest one can run on the 7"?

With an 8 inch rim a 255/85 may be a bit stretched out to bead correctly, so it will have a greater chance of unseating if run at very low pressures and will likely have the sidewalls a bit more exposed to damage - not a deal breaker and it will depend on the particular tyre but a 7 inch rim will be a better fit.

A 8 inch rim will also need more offset in order to ensure the tyres clear the front radius arms and spring towers (at least zero offset, possibly negative 25mm).

The widest tyre you can run on a 7 inch rim is a 265/75 ( although there may be some 285/75 that are approved for a 7 inch rim, but they're pretty rare). I currently run 265/75 on 7 inch rims - it looks good and is a common size but is not really any better than a 235/85 truth be told.

The tallest tyre you can run on a 7 inch rim is a 255/85 (except for the odd sizes discussed above).

I spent far too much coin on my rims so that they can be converted from 7 inch rims to 8 inch rims through the addition of beadlocks.

[TwoUp]

GyroLandy,

You may want to check the size with the seller?

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Wheel Diameter: 15"Product Type: Wheels, Tyres