Pondering a 95 RR purchase

[Erik BM]

Hi All,
I have a similar thread in the classic section, so forgive any double ups. I am tossing up between a 95 RR and a 74 RR. Both are about the same price. The 74 is on gas, with a newish 4.4 P76 motor in it, but a bit rough body wise, although it sounds as though it is well sorted out. The 95 is petrol 4.0, and looks to have a good body and interior - as you would expect.

I am looking mainly for a tow vehicle, with the odd vehicle rescue at home on the hobby farm. I do like bells and whistles, but don't need to spend any more time on vehicles, as I have plenty of projects.

Any thoughts?

Erik

[Keithy P38]

Get the '74...

You will spend time and money on a P38

[TheTree]

+1 for the classic if you already have enough projects :eek:

[bruce p38]

Get the p38 ! I went from a 85 classic to 95 p38 on coils and lpg , just take your time and buy one thats been well serviced. To me the difference is chalk and cheese (the classic being the chalk)Theres no bells or whistles on a early classic or if there are there broken and hard to replace Anyway good luck with witch ever way you go

[TheTree]

Having owned a classic and now being the owner or a P38, I must agree with Bruce that the P38 is a far better vehicle, but even if you take your time and find a good one as i hope i have, you still need to spend time and money on it.

I was faced with the same choice and went for the P38, I decided i wanted that extra level of refinement :cool:

Steve

[sheerluck]

To play devil's advocate for a moment....

If you don't want something that you need to spend some time on, get a Corolla :wasntme:

[mtb_gary]

Much like the others, having had a RR classic (2 door) the p38 is a far more refined car and would select the p38 every time. Also, given that the classic you are looking at has been modified parts are always going to be difficult. Besides, the p38 group on this forum are without doubt the most informative and supportive group you could ever ask for......go for the p38, but check it carefully!

Gary

[Erik BM]

Thanks for the thoughts so far. The P38 seems to have been well looked after. The guy claims fuel consumption of 12-14 L/100 on country runs. Is this believable?

Erik

[mtb_gary]

12 might be a bit optimistic unless you've got a massive tail wind! Being very gentle with the right foot I usually get around 13.5 until the speed gets over 100kph, then it falls back to around 14.5 - 15. I have a 1996 HSE with the 4.6

Good luck with your purchase

Gary

[BusinessConnected]

Surely it's going to be better than a 4.4 P76 Motor in any event ;)

[Keithy P38]

I think the Bosch P38's must be better on the juice! Mine (4.6 litre with taller tyres) returns near 11's to the 100 on highway runs, that goes up to 13 fully loaded on a trip with my foxwing and oztent on the roof.

Around town is a tad higher (14.5 outta the last tank with lots of small trips).

My apologies for going off-topic.

[TheTree]

To play devil's advocate for a moment....

If you don't want something that you need to spend some time on, get a Corolla :wasntme:

OI!!
SWMBO has a Corolla and guess who gets to service and look after it !:angel:

Still nowhere near as much fun as "The Toy" as she has named it.

Steve

[TheTree]

To get back on topic :wasntme:

When I decided to go for a P38, it didn't take me long to work out I wanted one with Bosch electronics, what i read about the GEMS system made me think of how we used to call Lucas "The Prince of Darkness".

So for me 99 or later was the first criteria, and LPG the second. Combined with the usual things about odometer reading etc

Steve

[Erik BM]

A 99 or later is out of the budget, sorry. So it is the 'prince of darkness'. I have read I will need to buy a thousand dollar diagnostic tool for the P38. Is this so? In which case it makes the 74 RR a bit more attractive.

I gather the EAS has been replaced with coils again. How robust is the driveline? Do they have fancy electrically activated couplings that cause trouble?

Erik

[TheTree]

A 99 or later is out of the budget, sorry. So it is the 'prince of darkness'. I have read I will need to buy a thousand dollar diagnostic tool for the P38. Is this so? In which case it makes the 74 RR a bit more attractive.

I gather the EAS has been replaced with coils again. How robust is the driveline? Do they have fancy electrically activated couplings that cause trouble?

Erik

Hi Erik

You will need an expensive diagnostic tool for the P38 if you want to fix ti yourself.

The p38 has fancy electrically activated everything (almost)

I read in your other thread that it seems you pretty much want a hack to take your boat to the river and back and a bit of towing.

In that case I suggest a classic would probably be a better fit for you

Steve

[whisky_mac]

I have a 98 Gems, after the initial spend to get it right it is fine. As my mechanic has said though, you have to service them like a plane, you do the replacement when it is scheduled, not when it breaks 'cause that will bring on other problems.

I have just over 260,000 km on mine and it will go into Queensland again this winter with the Hobie Kayak on top and pulling the Tvan camper. On a good day at about 95km an hour I return about 15.5km per 100 pulling that setup. Ninety five works out good as the road trains are not catching you and you don't catch them.

Just got to fix the ten stacker for my music.

[TheTree]

As my mechanic has said though, you have to service them like a plane

Ain't that the truth !

[mtb_gary]

A 99 or later is out of the budget, sorry. So it is the 'prince of darkness'. I have read I will need to buy a thousand dollar diagnostic tool for the P38. Is this so? In which case it makes the 74 RR a bit more attractive.

I gather the EAS has been replaced with coils again. How robust is the driveline? Do they have fancy electrically activated couplings that cause trouble?

Erik

Erik

The Nanocom FCR at around $300 is all you will probably need (certainly all I have needed) to maintain your vehicle. The FCR (Fault Code Reader) reads the faults and can also clear (not fix) any errors that may be present. They are not a difficult car to work with but you MUST do the servicing as per the book to keep these cars reliable.

Gary

[superquag]

To play devil's advocate for a moment....

If you don't want something that you need to spend some time on, get a Corolla :wasntme:

As an owner of a 95 Classic with a low mileage 3.9 V8, let me also play Devil's Advocate.

- If you want to tow anything bigger than an empty 6x4 trailer, or a 12' tinny + 15hp outboard... go for a 95 Nissan Patrol.

We tow 3 tonnes plant/trailer and I can get 3.6 km/l. My Classic gives me 5 to 6 unloaded.

And its got more torque - pulls away just on idle, runs 1800 RPM at 100km/h which it manages ok on freeways and sits nicely even though the current trailer is less than well-balanced...

Go for the P38, despite the unreliability (Advice to me from LR Mechanic.... never drive one 'cos they're beautiful and you will want one... but they keep me in business!) - The engine is regarded as better.
Plus, there's heaps of current and detailed advice here !!!!

[Keithy P38]

Misread post! My bad!

EDIT: Edited - hence my misunderstanding!

[Erik BM]

As an owner of a 95 Classic with a low mileage 3.9 V8, let me also play Devil's Advocate.

- If you want to tow anything bigger than an empty 6x4 trailer, or a 12' tinny + 15hp outboard... go for a 95 Nissan Patrol.

We tow 3 tonnes plant/trailer and I can get 3.6 km/l. My Classic gives me 5 to 6 unloaded.

And its got more torque - pulls away just on idle, runs 1800 RPM at 100km/h which it manages ok on freeways and sits nicely even though the current trailer is less than well-balanced...

Sorry, but I have not understood you. Are you saying the Classic is much better than the Patrol or much worse? My understanding of the towing capacity of the other 4WDs is that they are only 2.5t braked (legally), which might rule them out depending on how big my boat is.

Erik

[Keithy P38]

The most I've towed with mine was 2t and it managed quite easily at freeway speeds. Fuel consumption increased to 18L/100km though.

[mtb_gary]

Erik

I also tow a boat with the p38. It does it brilliantly! My previous boat weighed in around 2.5 tonne and my current boat a bit lighter around 2 tonne. You also get the benefit of changing the tow ball height with the suspension to assist in the coupling of the trailer and later on when you are at the launchin ramp lift up the suspension and the boat slides on/off the trailer easier without having to take the car too far into the water. As a rule I only ever get the tyres wet and not the rims (255/60/18's).

Gary

[superquag]

Eric,
I see what you mean... My fault, scribbled (?) out in a mad rush is my excuse...

I meant the Nissan 4.2 / straight 6 petrol is the far better tow-vehicle when compared to a 3.5 or (my own) 3.9 V8 Classic softdash. I've towed the same load with all 3 cars. (LT230 rangie, mine, and the '95 Nissan)

The Nissan does it better than my 3.9 Classic, in power, fuel thirst and on-road stability. - Without the load, I reckon the Nissan would out-accelerate my heap...and drink less doing it.
But the RR is a great hoon-car, off-road in luxury or daily driver, just not a long-term 'worker'.

Everyone tells me how much better the 4.6 is compared with my 3.9. - (could'nt be any more embarrasing!) - Fuel figures here seem to confirm this.

Towing capacity ? - I suspect this has more to do with whatever the manufacturer is prepared to claim than actual body strength or on-road ability. - Would like to be proved wrong...

And yes, being able to lift & lower the car to match the tow hitch is great, - Priceless if your audience are NissYota owners... :p

.95 Classic softdash with working air suspension.

[Erik BM]

As a Citroen enthusiast, the air suspension would be a real hit. I like vehicles that go up and down.

I have just driven my first RR, an 89 and I was disappointed. It didn't feel like a state of the art 4WD. It was OK, but my 94 Disco felt nicer.

I also note in my first post that I thought the 93 RR was a P38, whereas they only started in 95? The one I meant was a 95. When did the P38 start and when did the EAS start?

Erik

[PeterAllen]

Go the p38.
Better to drive around town, better on highway and much better than the classic on corrugated roads.
Petrol use from my 97 P38 versus my old 87 classic is in my opinion 30-40% better. My old classic at best returned less than 5 km per Litre whereas the bigger(4.6) heavier and much more comfortable ride P38 returns up to 7.5.
Regarding servicing and problems (they are both Range Rovers) expect to get dirty

[benji]

The 89 rangie im sure was good for the day, but the wear in the steering, hubs and suspension can make them horrible.

The air sus. started in late 92/93. The p38 was launched in 94, and the last classic was built in 96.

Im pretty sure the longer wheel base of the nissan would make a big difference in towing; im suprised about the power and fuel use though. Dads 4.5 GU is slower and uses more fuel than my 93 - and by a big margin too. Though recently (1st trip in the hse) he tried to chase me on the great ocean road, that was really embarrassing.

[superquag]

Who was embarrased ? - the Nissan or Rangie ?

'Embarrasment' is when one is towing a little 6x4 with a mattress and light odds & ends... and #1 son is driving the bosses 'ranger' with 2.5(?) non-turbo diesel and lugging the full load of tradie gear, plus a huge trailer filled full.... and leaves me breathing his fumes.

He still has'nt shut up about it....:mad::(:mad:

[Erik BM]

Thanks friends for the advice. I went and had a drive of the 74 classic and ended up buying it. It doesn't have as many bells, but it certainly whistles. The tail gate pops open at speed, because of the rusted out frame and the wind whistles in through the holes in the firewall :cool:

The P38 would have been my preference, but an affordable one was 600 kms away in Vic and this had a rebuilt motor in it, a new clutch and as some have said, is simpler, so... needs a bit of tidying, but I am launched.

Thanks again, Erik

[bruce p38]

The important thing here Eric is you bought a vehicle worth fixing up / maintaining. To me thats the whole Land Rover default, not disposable in an increasingly disposable world ! Good Luck to you and your 74 CRR

B P38