MY11 Defender Radiator Upgrade

[Bess]

Hi folks, hope this is the right spot for this post. I have a 2.4TDCI Defender that I'am slowly setting up for touring. She will be towing a largish van & all our worldly belongings. She has been re mapped using an ATRIC module & Alive re map. I will be upgrading the intercooler but I also want to upgrade the radiator as well. Here's the thing ! I have been searching the web but I cannot find a supplier for a radiator upgrade, any thoughts would be appreciated. Regards Chris.:D

[Bush65]

Chris, I'm not familiar with the radiators used for these, but I have noted in other posts some issues concerning how the engine management behaves when the coolant temperature reaches a certain value.

So your concern seems to be real, but like you I have not noticed others posting about radiator upgrades, so perhaps there is no easy solution.

One of the lessons is that the factory temperature gauge is notoriously poor and there are good solutions that can warn you before it becomes critical, giving time for you to ease off the right foot, and or select a lower gear to reduce the load on the engine for a bit.

If you find a good radiator specialist they might be able to replace the radiator core with another that will provide greater heat transfer to the cooling air. This was simple in the old days when radiators used soldered connections between the tanks and core, but nowadays they have glued plastic tanks and the like.

Then there are those who make expensive radiators for high performance vehicles. Be aware that if your touring involves many km's of corrugations, then cracking of details like aluminium welds can result.

One thing you may, or may not, have seen is some discussion of another approach to improve the cooling effectiveness by promoting greater air flow through the radiator.

This cooling air flow through the radiator will increase if that air can escape more easily from the engine bay. There has been some successes from different approaches to this issue, one involving a similar model to yours.

I'm not trying to persuade you from the path to finding a better replacement radiator, but hinting that a multi-pronged approach might give better overall results.

[Judo]

No help on finding a better radiator sorry, but I will second John's hint/suggestion of fitting an after market temp gauge. If you can't improve your cooling, you should at least know when to back off and keep the engine happy. Regardless of where the limit is - if you can't see the limit, you run the risk of problems. Good luck! :)

[Bess]

Justin & John, Thanks for the input guys, good advice is always appreciated. Your right about needing to know of a potential problem to enable some rectification. I was not aware that the Landy gauges were not that reliable. Possibly explains why my D2 TD5's gauge never budged from its usual spot regardless of ambient temp or driving conditions. I might have dodged a bullet there as she worked fairlr hard at times hauling the turtle around. I will look into the secondary temp gauge idea along with oil pressure me thinks. Last time I spoke to Bruce at BDP in Sydney he was trying to source a high quality item locally( Aus that is ) so I might follow that up a bit more. I have heard that by increasing the inter-coolers efficiency the EGT can be dropped & less strain on the cooling system can also accompany this, assuming one doesn't have the right foot planted to deeply while enjoying the performance increase. Thanks again for the advice guys & I will keep all & sundry informed if I find a supplier of quality high flow radiators.
Regards Chris

P.S; I have fitted the raised air intake to the heater intake ( l/h guard ) & the same on the r/h guard, the r/h currently feeds the engine bay only & I'am contemplating a home made duct to direct this air towards the turbo & manifold which is right beside this intake, what's your thoughts on this? :)

[Bush65]

Justin & John, Thanks for the input guys, good advice is always appreciated. Your right about needing to know of a potential problem to enable some rectification. I was not aware that the Landy gauges were not that reliable. Possibly explains why my D2 TD5's gauge never budged from its usual spot regardless of ambient temp or driving conditions. I might have dodged a bullet there as she worked fairlr hard at times hauling the turtle around. I will look into the secondary temp gauge idea along with oil pressure me thinks. Last time I spoke to Bruce at BDP in Sydney he was trying to source a high quality item locally( Aus that is ) so I might follow that up a bit more. I have heard that by increasing the inter-coolers efficiency the EGT can be dropped & less strain on the cooling system can also accompany this, assuming one doesn't have the right foot planted to deeply while enjoying the performance increase. Thanks again for the advice guys & I will keep all & sundry informed if I find a supplier of quality high flow radiators.
Regards Chris

P.S; I have fitted the raised air intake to the heater intake ( l/h guard ) & the same on the r/h guard, the r/h currently feeds the engine bay only & I'am contemplating a home made duct to direct this air towards the turbo & manifold which is right beside this intake, what's your thoughts on this? :)
A very good option to a better quality gauge is to fit one of the devices that plug into the OBD II port for your engine. These will help you in many more ways than a dedicated temperature gauge.

There are 2 that I know of, ScanGauge and Ultragauge. I have used a ScanGauge but never an Ultragauge, which looks to have more in it's favour.

Check this thread Monitoring engine (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/173290-monitoring-engine.html) for some information on both.

Have a read of the posts about puma engine cooling on this page (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/85537-chooks-defender-110-a-9.html), from post #326, it goes to some of your questions. In this thread you will have to wade through a number of posts before coming to the results from exhausting air from the engine bay in post #399, which in part says:


Also you will notice I have fitted snow cowls, this idea came from the guys discussing the need to move air out of the engine bay not introduce more into it. With my limited knowledge of air movement in engine bays (being nil) I figured the wing top was probably an area of negative pressure so a way of venting the air might work.

The passengers side remains as the cabin air intake and the drivers now vents hot air from the engine bay and holding your hand up to it you can feel the hot air escaping.

I would say that this has lowered the temps by at least 4 deg, the highest I have got since fitting them is 99deg compared with 110deg previously. Similar outside temps but I am a lot more loaded up this trip so its worked well

I'm happy to discuss this further, but suggest you read those first for some background information.

[modman]

Those ^^^^^^ mods don't promote more airflow through the radiator
Search for guard vents ( on the side below/above snorkels)
THIS improves airflow through the radiator at speed and idling around
Like the others a simple mech temp guage will help or a fancy ems/madman/computer thingy that you can set multiple alarms across egt, coolant temp, oil pressure, engine hours, transmission temp if you're towing heavy
Do these rigs have a transmission cooler , is it in the radiator?
If it is that will strain the cooling system further.
Let the mods begin!!!
Dc

[modman]

4 minutes!!!
Gotta type faster
Dc

[FeatherWeightDriver]

A very good option to a better quality gauge is to fit one of the devices that plug into the OBD II port for your engine. These will help you in many more ways than a dedicated temperature gauge.


Hmm shouldn't the Ultragauge / ScanGauge be reading the same temperature as the dashboard temperature meter?

Granted the OBD2 route gives you a number rather than a position on a dial, but if the reading is dodgy in the first place...

[Judo]

Hmm shouldn't the Ultragauge / ScanGauge be reading the same temperature as the dashboard temperature meter?

Granted the OBD2 route gives you a number rather than a position on a dial, but if the reading is dodgy in the first place...

It's not that the reading is wrong, it's that the gauge is not linear and does not show the absolute number, thus doesn't tell the whole story.

[Bess]

Thanks to everybody for there thoughts on this one. My research continues.
So if my wing top raised intake vents are in a " still air " pocket I guess there not doing much at all! Must do more research!!:o
Regards Chris.
P.S; Oh & Bess of course the recipient of this wealth of knowledge!:burnrubber:

[Bush65]

Thanks to everybody for there thoughts on this one. My research continues.
So if my wing top raised intake vents are in a " still air " pocket I guess there not doing much at all! Must do more research!!:o
Regards Chris.
P.S; Oh & Bess of course the recipient of this wealth of knowledge!:burnrubber:
The 'moral of the story is' you should be getting cool air into the engine bay via the radiator only, and hot air out of the engine bay via any other likely orifice.

Land Rover use one of the opening on top of the left wing for cabin ventilation and the other is there for similar use in left hand drive vehicles. The unused vent opening should not be used as an air inlet for the engine bay, but could be an option if used as a hot air outlet.

[tacr2man]

It has become a common practice to have a water oil intercooler on modern engines to increase the speed of warm up/temp equalisation for emission purposes. This can be a bit of a negative same as transcoolers in engine rads , as it increases the heat load in the radiator. If you are having/forsee a problem , which you seem to have in problem with getting a bigger radiator then I would suggest that you fit an aftermarket engine oil cooler. These are very effective considering their small size. (A "air cooled" VW engine is really an "oil cooled" engine) . If you have aircon fitted then moving the condensor from infront of the radiator , say to a rooftop unit will also improve the usability of the vehicle in extremes eg when climbing dunes in 45C . HTSH

[slug_burner]

If you go down the radiator upgrade path you might want to consider redback radiators. I can't recall if they are the ones that do the dimpled tubes but I recall a bit of discussion by one of the forum sage Rick130 on redback cores. Apparently they service the mining industry and do copper and bronze cores. I had a look at their website but did not see ref to the dimples.

[FANTOM P38]

I recently upgraded my radiator to a H/duty full aluminium one made to be a straight swap out with standard. I purchased from Aussie Desert Coolers in Thomastown-Victoria. They also incorporated a top bleed valve to make bleeding system easier. See my earlier post on this including photos.
Since install cae runs consistently cooler than ever before and my needle has not budged offroad on warmer days unlike in past. Installation was a breeze and retained standard factory shroud etc. Cost more than a stock radiator but I belive long term will be worth every cent. They can make to suit any vehicle so would be worth giving them a call. They have extensive experience building for offroad race teams etc! and very good reputation.