Radiator 3 or 4 rows

[lebanon]

My 110 came equipped with a 4 cylinder engine that was changed by a V8 4.2 L

When the weather is cold in winter the needle of temperature gauge stays in the middle while while driving in hot weather it creeps up to 3/4th of the normal temperature and moves further up the white normal area of the gauge without ever moving to to the red zone of it.

Taking into consideration that the radiator is flushed every three years and filled with 50/50 water and antifreeze mixture.

I have had contradictory opinions on this issue, the first being that it is normal as long as it doesn't cross to the red zone while others say that the radiator is not up to the level of dealing with the extra heat generated by the engine, since it is a 3 row unit.

Do you think that a 4 row brass radiator type would do any good to the situation? What is your opinion regarding the 4 row type tendency to reduce airflow traversing the radiator thus being less effective than the 3 row type.

Thank you for the help.

[87County]

IMHE the three year turn around for coolant system maintenance could be OK (depending also on the distance travelled in that time) if radiator "rodding" and thermostat replacement is included at the time of service.

The quality of the water that you are using can have a bearing on this also.


If you are satisfied that the cooling system has been maintained and is in good condition - I think I would be looking at condition and function of both the gauge (standard 110 one isn't known for its sophistication) and the thermostat - which can vary in action during service.

No doubt others will add opinions about the radiator specs you listed.


Hope this helps

[lebanon]

IMHE the three year turn around for coolant system maintenance could be OK (depending also on the distance travelled in that time) if radiator "rodding" and thermostat replacement is included at the time of service.

The quality of the water that you are using can have a bearing on this also.


If you are satisfied that the cooling system has been maintained and is in good condition - I think I would be looking at condition and function of both the gauge (standard 110 one isn't known for its sophistication) and the thermostat - which can vary in action during service.

No doubt others will add opinions about the radiator specs you listed.


Hope this helps

I forgot to mention that I use distilled water and that all other components like gauge, thermostat and temperature sensor are all genuine land rover items.

The three year interval includes also rodding of the radiator.

I am comparing the situation to that of my RRC that was equipped with a 4 core radiator and that had the same treatment for its radiator. I never remember seeing the needle going more than half of the gauge.

Some say that it is also due to the restricted airflow in the 110 engine bay compare to that of the RRC.

[bee utey]

In my opinion you won't benefit from a 4 row radiator unless you increase the air flow of the engine fan. I have experimented with many different radiator fan arrangements over the years on problem overheating vehicles. The most critical part of an engine fan is the last 50mm of blade and its relation to the fan shroud. If the blades are straight the tips should be partly exposed out of the shroud. Air is expelled radially off the tips of the fan. Natural air flow will not successfully cool a V8 in a Land rover in hot weather.

My most successful fix was on a Ford F350 with a 5.8 litre V8. By moving the fan back out of the shroud and also shortening the shroud the vehicle went from totally useless under load to being able to handle 4 tons of firewood on the hottest days, with the air con on full blast. The owner commented on the dust that blew up from the road when he was revving the engine. Previously you could hardly feel any air movement.

Another more topical vehicle was a 2 door RRC with a 4.4 litre V8. I improved the cooling by fitting a smaller diameter water pump pulley, a direct drive fan (no viscous), modifying the shroud and removing the grille. It helped a lot but eventually the owner bought a diesel LR instead. (Hi Marty 110 :) )

[Bigbjorn]

My experience with radiators is mainly in heavy trucks. Frontal area is the most important factor. If you can't increase the frontal area then you need to have more rows of tubes and/or more fins per inch. The increase in air flow resistance by four rows over three is negligible. Very close finning will increase resistance to air flow which may be offset by the extra heat dissipation from the increased area of finning. MAN had heating problems in road train service in WA and tried a variety of radiators in a vain attempt to solve the problem. Frontal area could not be improved without a radical redesign of the cab. As many as 8 & 10 rows of tubes were tried but got to the point of diminishing returns.

Fans need to be about 1/3 in the shroud and 2/3 out. We had fan clutches fitted to all our prime movers from about 1976-77. Monitoring devices were fitted to a couple to see when and in what circumstances the fans clutched in. In general line haul use the fans operated only around 10% of the time maximum, usually only in warm weather and hard pulls. In outback road train use the fans operated much more of the time but again only in harder working, higher ambients, slow heavy pulls,etc. If the trucks were getting along nicely 30 mph or more then the fans did not engage.

Perhaps anything in front of the radiator than can be removed should be.

[BilboBoggles]

On my V8 Range Rover, I had the same issues. It would get very close to the red. The thermostat should ensure that the temperature stays relatively even. It should open up more when the engine is working so as to keep the temperature constant. When the temp creeps up like that it shows there is not enough cooling capacity.

When it's hot you should really hear the viscous fan lock up - it should be quite audible. the fan should make a lot of noise after the engine has been under heavy load and is very hot, that noise should diminish as you drive on level surface at a reasonable speed - the forced airflow should take over and keep the temperature down.

If you viscous fan is not making noise when it's hot - then it's rooted, and you will see the temp do exactly what you describe.

This issue has happened on a number of my V8 Range Rovers, One of them I even had a 5 core radiator in, and it would still overheat, because the viscous fan was stuffed. Problem was the viscous fan clutch was worth more than the car was worth.

So I reckon make sure your fan clutch is working.

[lebanon]

The radiator specialist hinted that the material of the radiator are totally necked, the radiator is still the original one that came with the car some 23 years back.

He suggests to replace it with a 4 row type.

After BilboBoggles's post I am starting to doubt the viscous fan clutch.

Anyone with a good testing method different from that explained in the workshop manual?

[Bigbjorn]

My experience with radiators is mainly in heavy trucks. Frontal area is the most important factor. If you can't increase the frontal area then you need to have more rows of tubes and/or more fins per inch. The increase in air flow resistance by four rows over three is negligible. Very close finning will increase resistance to air flow which may be offset by the extra heat dissipation from the increased area of finning. MAN had heating problems in road train service in WA and tried a variety of radiators in a vain attempt to solve the problem. Frontal area could not be improved without a radical redesign of the cab. As many as 8 & 10 rows of tubes were tried but got to the point of diminishing returns.

Fans need to be about 1/3 in the shroud and 2/3 out. We had fan clutches fitted to all our prime movers from about 1976-77. Monitoring devices were fitted to a couple to see when and in what circumstances the fans clutched in. In general line haul use the fans operated only around 10% of the time maximum, usually only in warm weather and hard pulls. In outback road train use the fans operated much more of the time but again only in harder working, higher ambients, slow heavy pulls,etc. If the trucks were getting along nicely 30 mph or more then the fans did not engage.

Perhaps anything in front of the radiator than can be removed should be.

Sorry, folks. I got that ahsabout. The fan blades should be 2/3 in the shroud and 1/3 out. The front of the blades should be within 1/2" - 3/4" of the core.

[tacr2man]

I had a four row in my 3.9i 110CSW , with standard viscous fan and cowl , never even looked like overheating even when towing 30ft 2 axle caravan in 40C+ . The only other extra cooling was a 13row mocal engine oil cooler. HTSH ;)

[slug_burner]

clutch fan test.

get vehicle to working temp
place blanket over front of vehicle to increase temp to force fan into operation.

Use 4" paint brush against fan blades to stop rotation.

If you can't stop rotation, clutch is good.

Listening for the roar of the fan I have found to be just as good, if you are parked with engine at idle on a hot day with the a/c on the fan will roar intermittently.