Discovery 4 jacked up on air suspension reservoir, messed up suspension.

[The_J_Man]

Hi everybody,

I was just wondering what the cylindrical metal object is for under the left side of my 2010 LR4 (see picture). Its only on the left side and extends for as long as the drivers door. (German LR4, left side is driver). Its attached to the chassis but its hollow, looks like a storage tank for something. There is a single about 5mm in diameter cable / hose coming out the rear disappearing to somewhere I cant see.
There are no stickers on it and doesn't say in the handbook either.

Incase you need to know its the 3.0 TDV6, HSE, with air suspension
Anybody know?

Thanks

[Blknight.aus]

reservoir for the air suspension

[The_J_Man]

reservoir for the air suspension

thanks for answering.

i was thinking along the lines of that.
Here is the problem. I had my tires exchanges earlier and when they lifted the car they placed rubber blocks between the chassis and the lifting machine in order to lift it.
The front left block was placed under that tank. So 1/4 of the cars weight, probably more, was resting on the tank. They said everything is fine etc, its a part from the chassis they always do it like this (that garage has had my LR4 there a couple times otherwise the closest car the exchanged tires on was a RR sport), i didn't believe that so I started taking pictures like mad.

That has paid out now as the air suspension is no longer functional.
After lots of playing with the up and down buttons it now no longer does anything. Its in access height, the screens and indicators show it is in off road height which is what I selected. The system said it needs to cool down after pressing the up button once. I let it cool down for 2 hours. Tried again. Nothing. It managed to get the back suspension up now and then by maybe 1-2cm.
So they destroyed something the idiots. I told them its not part of the chassis. He was like "oh yeah, its STEEL supposed to be there, no problem at all."

Also when the wheels where fixed again the car was lowered, front suspension went down to normal level once the wheels touched the floor and the weight of the car forced the suspension to how it always is. However the rear did not go down. It was higher then it is in super extended mode. We drove it out, played with the up and down buttons and it eventually lowered itself.
Could that be linked aswell?

1st pic, rear suspension after lowering, front was at normal level (10cm between wheel and wheel cover thing)
2nd pic, placements of blocks.

thank you

[sheerluck]

I think you may have dodged a bullet there by taking the photos. They clearly have no idea what they are doing if "they always do it like that".

It's certainly not an approved jacking point, and certainly not a part of the chassis. Someone who knows much more about the air suspension system than I do will be along to give you an idea of what it could have damaged.

[The_J_Man]

I think you may have dodged a bullet there by taking the photos. They clearly have no idea what they are doing if "they always do it like that".

It's certainly not an approved jacking point, and certainly not a part of the chassis. Someone who knows much more about the air suspension system than I do will be along to give you an idea of what it could have damaged.

Yeah I really have. Lets hope they have good insurance :D They should technically HAVE to pay for the damages.
I was suspicious, so i took photos. Started doing that with everything. The state of rental equipment before etc. I was ripped off twice before. Never happening again!

Exactly, but you know he said its made of STEEL so obviously its all right :P
"Someone will be along to give you an idea of what it could have damaged." what do you mean by this? Someone will write here? Sorry for not understanding.

Thank you for your help

[schuy1]

The first thing to do is grab the manual and find the 'Approved" lift/jacking points. That will give you an idea, and it will state any warnings regarding what can happen using non approved methods. I suspect lifting in that manner may have damaged the height sensors which is what is causing the suspension to malfuction. The control is not recieving any data re heights so it is ignoring.
Cheers Scott

[sheerluck]

.........
"Someone will be along to give you an idea of what it could have damaged." what do you mean by this? Someone will write here? Sorry for not understanding.

Thank you for your help

Firstly, I would suggest that you request a moderator move this thread to the D3/D4/RRS forum (by clicking on the red triangular on the right hand side of any post), and then some of the members who know the air suspension system inside out will be more likely to see, read and give advice on the potential damage caused.

[The_J_Man]

The first thing to do is grab the manual and find the 'Approved" lift/jacking points. That will give you an idea, and it will state any warnings regarding what can happen using non approved methods. I suspect lifting in that manner may have damaged the height sensors which is what is causing the suspension to malfuction. The control is not recieving any data re heights so it is ignoring.
Cheers Scott

I have read those several times. Sadly the warnings in there are very basic.

Interesting thank you. Is that where the sensors are located?
How can you / anybody explain why the systems overheats very quickely, quicker then usual, and that I cant hear the air being pushed into the suspension. Usually you can hear it, its just dead silent now.
Also does the rear suspension not lowering after the car was lowered off the lifting equipment mean anything?? normal for the car or a problem?
Taking the car to the dealer in the next days but I need to tell the shop something, hence why I asked about the tank in the first place.

Thank you for your help

btw: I have requested to move this thread.

[101RRS]

If one part of the garage lift went on the air tank - where did the other lifting arm go - under the air compressor?? If so maybe that is why you have issues.

Garry

[The_J_Man]

If one part of the garage lift went on the air tank - where did the other lifting arm go - under the air compressor?? If so maybe that is why you have issues.

Garry

The air compressor is on the left side in front of the rear wheel correct?
In the picture I took is does indeed look like it is on the plastic shielding to the left of the chassis at the back left. However I checked all the other spots and they were all on the chassis. Just not sure about the rear left one. I will check under car to see where the marks are the rubber blocks left. The car was very dirty and you can now clearly see where the blocks scraped away the dirt when the car was resting on them. I will check the back left if it may have been fully or partly resting on the plastic and not the chassis.
The two blocks on the right side were definitely placed correctly, then again the right side only has the chassis where they can be placed under. No other components on that side.

[schuy1]

If you are taking it into the dealers I would tell them exactly what happened and the behavior of the suspension system afterwards. If they are on the ball it will be obvious as I bet this is not the first occurrence of incorrect jacking procedures on D4's.
Cheers Scott

[The_J_Man]

If you are taking it into the dealers I would tell them exactly what happened and the behavior of the suspension system afterwards. If they are on the ball it will be obvious as I bet this is not the first occurrence of incorrect jacking procedures on D4's.
Cheers Scott

Your probably right. Not hard to do correctly but not paying attention probably happened a lot. Im going to tolk to the dealer
Is the air compressor where I marked it on the last picture?

[justinc]

Yes that is the air compressr at the back. Idiots:mad: A very easy thing to damage if a jack is placed under it, it is only mounted on an alloy bracket which WILL break.

JC

[sheerluck]

....... I bet this is not the first occurrence of incorrect jacking procedures on D4's.
Cheers Scott

I'm sure the suspension component location is much the same for D3/D4/RRS, and there's been more than one thread on here about jacking incorrectly, including (if memory serves me correctly) one by garrycol [bigwhistle]

Oh, and The_J_Man, just to be pedantic, the model designation here in Australia is Discovery 4 or D4 for short. LR4 is what our North American brethren get, presumably because if they bought something with a "Discovery" badge on it, they would expect a space shuttle, and then would sue the dealer for not getting what they expected.

Before anyone chips in, I do know the real reason behind the different model designation in the US, I was merely painting the usual stereotype.:D

[The_J_Man]

Yes that is the air compressr at the back. Idiots:mad: A very easy thing to damage if a jack is placed under it, it is only mounted on an alloy bracket which WILL break.

JC

Thanks
Good to know. I don't think they jacked it up there, like I said I will check. I would have heard it break though right? and woudl the car have staid up like that for nearly 1hour if jacked up on the air compressor?

Hope they didn't, thats a big repair I guess :(

Yes, huge idiots. I hate it when people believe they know better but have no clue and then s*** happens and then :wasntme:
That place is getting s*** from me later tell ya that.



Oh, and The_J_Man, just to be pedantic, the model designation here in Australia is Discovery 4 or D4 for short. LR4 is what our North American brethren get, presumably because if they bought something with a "Discovery" badge on it, they would expect a space shuttle, and then would sue the dealer for not getting what they expected.

Before anyone chips in, I do know the real reason behind the different model designation in the US, I was merely painting the usual stereotype.:D

Thanks for that. I get confused with all the shortcuts in different countries :D And it being America they would win and get millions :D
LR4 doesn't make sense really, care to share why they call it that. Land Rover 4?? I always call it discovery 4 or Disco 4. But wasn't sure about what to write here :D

[The_J_Man]

I checked the rear left part.
It appears the rubber block was partly placed under the air compressor shielding.
maybe a third of the block was under the compressor, rest under the chassis.
Could that have caused any damage?? I dont know how far the shielding can be pushed in / flexed etc.

Right hand side of the picture is that block. You can see how its partly under the compressor on it.
second pic, you can see about 5cm of the bloc on that corner is under the compressor. As the chassis bend around it at that spot more of the block will be under the compressor on the other side.

Thanks for your help so far everyone

[Fred Nerk]

I found that many tyre dealers are not aware of the requirement to set the suspension in a special mode ("Tight Tolerance" mode) before performing a wheel alignment. I feel confident in predicting that the people who did this to you car would have no idea about this.

There are three options. Ask the LR dealer to select the mode and then take the car yourself to the tyre dealer. After wards the LR dealer needs to restore normal suspension settings.

Or: Take the car to LR after the tyres fitted to get the alignment done. (I chose to do this)

Or: Buy your tyres through LR which may limit choices and affect prices.

Edit: 4th option. You might be able to locate a tyre dealer who has the equipment to be able to select the correct suspension mode.
I like to talk to the tyre dealer and find out what they know about Land Rover suspension and how receptive they are to hearing my advice. A good dealer may not be aware of the issues, but is prepared to jack the car properly and learn about the alignment options. If I feel they are bluffing about their experience or knowlege I go somewhere else.

And finally, don't forget to tell them if you have tyre pressure monitoring fitted.....

I have painted the chassis bright yellow where the correct jack placement positions are located. Helps others help you.

[sniegy]

The air compressor is on the left side in front of the rear wheel correct?
In the picture I took is does indeed look like it is on the plastic shielding to the left of the chassis at the back left. However I checked all the other spots and they were all on the chassis. Just not sure about the rear left one. I will check under car to see where the marks are the rubber blocks left. The car was very dirty and you can now clearly see where the blocks scraped away the dirt when the car was resting on them. I will check the back left if it may have been fully or partly resting on the plastic and not the chassis.
The two blocks on the right side were definitely placed correctly, then again the right side only has the chassis where they can be placed under. No other components on that side.

Hey J Man,
In the photo that accompanies this reply, you can clearly see the jacking point.
It is the hole in the chassis basically next to the air compressor tank. The other is the one next to the air compressor itself again in the chassis.

As I work for a dealer this is a common complaint, that "I have just had tyres/alignment done & now I have a suspension fault".
Mainly due to inexperienced people either being lazy &/or just not caring.

I also see in the photos that there is enough room on the lift to locate the rubber mounts under the chassis where they are supposed to be.
In either case they should NOT lift the vehicle via either the tank or compressor. Both of either will cost the shop a lot of Deutschmarks.

Hope it works out well for you.

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

[The_J_Man]

I found that many tyre dealers are not aware of the requirement to set the suspension in a special mode ("Tight Tolerance" mode) before performing a wheel alignment. I feel confident in predicting that the people who did this to you car would have no idea about this.

There are three options. Ask the LR dealer to select the mode and then take the car yourself to the tyre dealer. After wards the LR dealer needs to restore normal suspension settings.

Or: Take the car to LR after the tyres fitted to get the alignment done. (I chose to do this)

Or: Buy your tyres through LR which may limit choices and affect prices.

Edit: 4th option. You might be able to locate a tyre dealer who has the equipment to be able to select the correct suspension mode.
I like to talk to the tyre dealer and find out what they know about Land Rover suspension and how receptive they are to hearing my advice. A good dealer may not be aware of the issues, but is prepared to jack the car properly and learn about the alignment options. If I feel they are bluffing about their experience or knowlege I go somewhere else.

And finally, don't forget to tell them if you have tyre pressure monitoring fitted.....

I have painted the chassis bright yellow where the correct jack placement positions are located. Helps others help you.

Thanks for the extensive and detailed reply.

What do you mean by tyre alignment?
I had my tyres changed to a new set. So they took the tyres of the rim and fitted new ones. They put them on a machine which turn them and fitted small weights on the inside of the rim to balance them.
Never heard of tight tolerance suspension mode. Doesn't say anything in the handbook about that. Should that be used when just changing tyres?

I dont have the tyre pressure monitoring system installed. What would be different if i had?

Thats a good thing to do, im thinking about doing that if I end up buying the car. Its a leasing vehicle so im affraid im not allowed yet.

Could this incorrect lifting have caused any structural damages of any kind? 3year leasing ends in december and maybe ill buy it out. Safe to do so if its repaired or might there me issues arrising from this that we might not know about yet?

Cheers mate.


Hey J Man,
In the photo that accompanies this reply, you can clearly see the jacking point.
It is the hole in the chassis basically next to the air compressor tank. The other is the one next to the air compressor itself again in the chassis.

As I work for a dealer this is a common complaint, that "I have just had tyres/alignment done & now I have a suspension fault".
Mainly due to inexperienced people either being lazy &/or just not caring.

I also see in the photos that there is enough room on the lift to locate the rubber mounts under the chassis where they are supposed to be.
In either case they should NOT lift the vehicle via either the tank or compressor. Both of either will cost the shop a lot of Deutschmarks.

Hope it works out well for you.


Hey Sniegy
Yes I know about the holes :D Shop didnt I guess. They are not entirely incompetent as I have had my tires exchanged there 4 times so far. Who knows maybe they did it wrong every time but nothing broke.

Its interesting that its a common thing.

There was enough room yes. And if there wasnt, they have 3 more lifts in various sizes, they should make it fit. Its no excuse saying it wouldn't have fitted otherwise.

Do you know how far the air compressor shielding can be pressed in before causing damage? As the rear block was partly placed under the air compressor shielding. At the moment im basing the faults due to the lifting at the tank. And thats what i have written to them. I obviously need to change that if its due to the rear being done incorrectly as well.

Some thing I forgot to mention.
When I first tested the suspension once I was home, where I noticed something was weird, I saw quite some liquid dripping down from under the car. about 40cm further into the centerline of the car parallel to the tank. I presumed it was the aircon. Could it have been a leak in the system, damage from the lifting? The tank is the accumulator and from what I understand it has a liquid inside aswell?

That car has warning lights for everything but not for a suspension fault. Weird I think

[Lotz-A-Landies]

You need to mark the lifting points!

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/d3-d4-rrs/60163d1367919867-discovery-4-jacked-up-air-suspension-reservoir-messed-up-suspension-img_6087-1-20copy.jpg

[The_J_Man]

You need to mark the lifting points!


I will now, I thought the garage in competent enough to know though. I was wrong.

[scarry]

When i took the D4 to have the 17's fitted to the rims and then the rims fitted to the vehicle,it was 'yer we have done a few of these LR's'.

My answer was,just be careful where you jack it.

To their credit,they had the handbook out but couldn't quite understand it,so they came over to ask me,and i showed them what to do(pretty well explained in the manual,but it still had them confused)

Three weeks later one of the tyres was low and i found the leak where the valve stem went through the rim.

On returning to the tyre shop they admitted they had not used new valve stems.They replaced them all at no cost.

It just shows,once again, you have to check EVERYTHING yourself or it never gets done properly:mad:

[justinc]

It takes time but eventually you find competent LR 'providers' like tyre and alignment shops etc. I have a good one but must drive 9km each way to get it done, OR I set the D3/4 to tight tolerance and send the customer off to get it done. If I prebook they are waiting only a short time, enjoy a coffee etc and They then return to me where I reset it back and they are on their way.

It is gold to find a place to rely on...:D

JC

[scarry]

.

It is gold to find a place to rely on...:D

JC

X2

I am sure many of us could write a book about the stuff ups we have seen over the years,no matter what industry we are in.....

[Fred Nerk]

Sorry that I confused you. I was actually referring a "wheel alignment". Not a "tyre alignment". As a rule it is wise to have the wheels aligned when new tyres are fitted.

Re: Tyre pressure monitoring. There are a few different systems and some invlove sensors fitted to the rim and inside the tyre. These types are at risk when a tyre is changed. Especially if the tyre fitters don't know that they are there.