Defender Puma 2.2 - voice your issues

[jannion]

Hi all. I recently purchased the 2013 110 Defender in Nara Bronze. This is one of a small handful of Defenders I have owned & have always been a devout advocate. However, unfortunately I have found the new MY13 Defender to be a little short of the mark. I have had major hassles & are still trying to resolve a long list of issues with the vehicle (less than 40000kms). Land Rover have requested evidence of forums where similar problems with the gearbox, engine, driveline - basically PUMA in general are discussed. I would appreciate anyone that could post on this thread regarding any issues or altercations they have had with Land Rover or with the Defender. Below is a list of problems;


Engine revs between gears causing slow & difficult gear changes
unjustifiable drive line back lash at only 3000kms
drive line vibration in low range
underpowered in comparison to the 90 with only 150kms difference in Tare weight.

[beefy]

engine revs between gears is very normal it's programmed too do that. slow of course it's 2.2lt. my drive line backlash is a little more the. my discovery td5.

[ATH]

My 2010 110 has shocking drive line lash, definitely the worst gear changing Defender I've had out of 3.
Can be good if it's done slowly but then it'll catch me out and I feel like looking for a cliff to drive it off!:mad:
I made a complaint at the stealers some months back and was told "It's a Defender" as if that makes it alright or acceptable.
This time though I went in for a slight leak at the transfer case and told them it wasn't acceptable and there's a whole lot of parts they've ordered from the east and UK and she should be right (fingers crossed) by the end of the week.
Then I'll have it remapped and off we go.......:)

AlanH.

[LoveB]

The driveline lash I had. I adjusted my driving. No clunks now. I tried shorting out the clutch switch, helped a bit but driving in the city was hard.

Went to dealership and had them update teh PCM. much better. No flat spot in between shifts. I can shift normally now (perhaps slow would be normal in a defender) and I almost never get clunks. I get it when I shift quick tring to see if I can still get it (lol) but otherwise I can drive all day without it.

With regards to power, sometimes I feel like it goes fast, sometimes I feel like it goes slow. I find it obviously runs better once the engine is warm. But when cold is sluggish and the transmission is rather tight.

low range I havent really tried, but I get some vibrations at low revs. Which I've found to be normal I think. I got the same sound on my isuzu forward fire truck overseas and the likes. So long as it doesnt fall apart I'll be fine with it.

[c.h.i.e.f]

My 2010 110 had 3 rear diffs due to terrible noises coming from them,egr spat it self and back lash was evident but driving style of a defender needs to be different than a Toyota or Nissan to overcome that as personally I find toyota drivelines much more forgiving and user friendly...
My new 2013 130 has a vibration at certain speeds which I am guessing is the front drive shaft having no lift and still having this noise is quite a concern :eek: , rev thing between gears gives me the $##ts big time as I like to change gears slowly so the revs don't know what to do so I done as Loveb done, the 2.2 seems more nippy than my 2.4 but does sometimes seem to drop in power marginally at times...

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Land Rover have requested evidence of forums where similar problems

I am sure all the folks here will be more than happy to share experiences and fixes.

But it is not the dealers / Land Rover's concern what other cars have done, and it is even less of your job to find out what other cars are doing on behalf of the dealer.

I'd be blunt - the dealer sold you the car, they have to sort out what is going on with your car, and get it fixed.

Sure there are things to get used to, but that is very different than trying to peddle the "that's how a Defender drives" story regardless of fault or fact and hope not to have to fix anything...

[Defender Mike]

My 2012 90 has very bad backlash but at the 20,000 k service the dealer told me they will replace the thrust washers in the transfer case ( something My Disco 2 didnt need until 200,000ks) at next service 30,000 k or sooner if i desire. My wife seems to get the back lash more than me but to stop it completly one has to drive extremely smoothly.
Mike:(

[Defender Mike]

I had the radiator hose problem as well when the clamp wore a hole through the top hose. This seems to have happend to all new 2.2 engines . I met a few other Perth owners last week at the classic car show and all had the same problem. Now with some of these vehicles delivered 12 months after mine one would think that this problem would be fixed either at the factory or in the pre-delivery at the Dealers. The question Begs?????????????????????????????????????????

Mike

[c.h.i.e.f]

I had the radiator hose problem as well when the clamp wore a hole through the top hose. This seems to have happend to all new 2.2 engines . I met a few other Perth owners last week at the classic car show and all had the same problem. Now with some of these vehicles delivered 12 months after mine one would think that this problem would be fixed either at the factory or in the pre-delivery at the Dealers. The question Begs?????????????????????????????????????????

Mike

I shall check my 2013 130 tomorrow and see

[Lagerfan]

My 2012 90 has very bad backlash but at the 20,000 k service the dealer told me they will replace the thrust washers in the transfer case ( something My Disco 2 didnt need until 200,000ks) at next service 30,000 k or sooner if i desire. My wife seems to get the back lash more than me but to stop it completly one has to drive extremely smoothly.
Mike:(

Our MY13 90 has pretty bad backlash/klunk too since we got it and it's still there at 4k on the clock. I was putting it down to my bad style as I can, and am, minimising it with smoother changes following advice here along with getting more used to the truck. Saying that, changing gear at glacial rates doesn't quite feel right either and I don't want to fall for the "that's how a Defender drives" fob off as FeatherWeightDriver points out. Might be time to investigate further :confused:

[Green Elephant]

The electronic throttle setup on the Puma's is far from perfect. I agree that this is the cause of many issues relating to difficult gear changes/clunks and takes a lot of getting used to

My truck has been serviced by an independent Landrover Specialist from day one. He reported excessive drivetrain lash after 20,000kms - this report was not sufficient for the dealers, and they "could not find a fault"... They told me to bring it back next time if I feel the problem is still there and they will "look" at it again. I am considering taking it to another driveline specialist for a report/inspection, but this is all at my own cost and time, and have absolutely no guarantee that it will make the dealer listen...

I certainly have not noticed any vibrations in low range and its had a lot of use.

Although I have mastered the "art of driving a puma", anyone else that drives it has a lot of issues!

[BilboBoggles]

Hi all. I recently purchased the 2013 110 Defender in Nara Bronze. This is one of a small handful of Defenders I have owned & have always been a devout advocate. However, unfortunately I have found the new MY13 Defender to be a little short of the mark. I have had major hassles & are still trying to resolve a long list of issues with the vehicle (less than 40000kms). Land Rover have requested evidence of forums where similar problems with the gearbox, engine, driveline - basically PUMA in general are discussed. I would appreciate anyone that could post on this thread regarding any issues or altercations they have had with Land Rover or with the Defender. Below is a list of problems;


Engine revs between gears causing slow & difficult gear changes
unjustifiable drive line back lash at only 3000kms
drive line vibration in low range
underpowered in comparison to the 90 with only 150kms difference in Tare weight.



Have you previously owned a PUMA, or were they TD5 or older defenders?

The reason I ask is that the PUMA defenders almost all vibrate (grind/rattle) nastily in low range, when under load. I've had a 2.4 PUMA MY09, and that went back several times. I think the main cause is that the clutch vibrates. This was temorarily fixed 3-4 times with a new clutch plate, but soon came back. I reckon the TD5 is nearly silent in comparison because it has a Dual Mass Fly wheel, the PUMA's is solid. I currently own a MY13 PUMA, in Nara Bronze, and it's driveline is a LOT quieter than the MY09 was, but no where near as quiet as the TD5, it vibrates more at low revs. And I think it has to because of the lack of dampening from the Dual Mass flywheel and the fact it's a 4 cyl vs the TD5's 5 cylinders.

I think this vibration issue can't be fixed and is something to live with.


The engine Revving, is by design, and I've now adapted to it and find it OK. I think you can disable this be shorting out a switch on the clutch master cylinder.

Driveline backlash is much more noticeable on the PUMA than the TD5, I reckon because of the lack of a DMF to absorb some of the shock.

I'm not sure about the under powered issue - I think my MY13 2.2, is more lively than the 2.4 MY09 I replaced, especially in the mid range, high revs It's hard to pick which was better. But the 2.2 is much better than the stock TD5. So for me the 2.2 is an improvement.


Is your's a seven seater?

[jplambs]

Just a response to all those that have experienced heightened driveline backlash. My 2012 defender did something similar after about 3000kms. It turned out to be the four bolts that hold the drive shaft onto the flange out of the transfer had come marginally loose - but not to the point where you could notice it by trying to move the drive shaft. The head mechanic at the local dealer said that it had happened to all the defenders that they had sold and that no matter how tight they did the bolts up during pre-delivery the two flanges still seemed to "bed in." I noticed a huge improvement after that service.

[c.h.i.e.f]

Dual mass flywheels are not my favourite but they do absorb those annoying vibrations and deliver the power from the engine to to wheels a lot more smoother than a solid mass flywheel...

[BilboBoggles]

Agree, the dmf is nice, but only lasts a certain amount of time, and then needs to be replaced. Its also very expensive to replace. I just had one done as part of a clutch job on my td5. $1000 just for the flywheel itself. The center bearing had broken.

[c.h.i.e.f]

Agree, the dmf is nice, but only lasts a certain amount of time, and then needs to be replaced. Its also very expensive to replace. I just had one done as part of a clutch job on my td5. $1000 just for the flywheel itself. The center bearing had broken.

Yep exactly...interesting I would have thought the td5 had a SMF and the puma had a DMF but there you go learn something everyday.... I've noticed the price is quite high for an item that seems to fail a considerable amount..

[Defender Mike]

Just a response to all those that have experienced heightened driveline backlash. My 2012 defender did something similar after about 3000kms. It turned out to be the four bolts that hold the drive shaft onto the flange out of the transfer had come marginally loose - but not to the point where you could notice it by trying to move the drive shaft. The head mechanic at the local dealer said that it had happened to all the defenders that they had sold and that no matter how tight they did the bolts up during pre-delivery the two flanges still seemed to "bed in." I noticed a huge improvement after that service.


Rain hail or shine i shall be under the Defer in the am with spanners in hand and it ****ing down at the moment. I hope this is the fix.
Mike

[SVX37]

Driveline backlash is a common problem for most Defender owners.

I have an SVX 2.4 motor and it had this issue from new and also complained to the dealer with no outcome. My only thing I could do was to drive as smooth as I could - this would help but not all the time.

Ater the warranty period, I began getting serviced by Ritters. I didn't mention anything but after the first service they said the driveline backlash was excessive and I needed a new rear axle. Mind you, this was with only 60,000kms on the clock!!! I at first rejected that my new car needed a new axle after only 60,000kms but after thinking it through, I went ahead.

When I picked it up after getting the new axle (Maxi drive type), it was like driving a different vehicke - no more backlash noticeable and it now drove better than new and I am not joking.

So, consider replacing the back axle.


Nigel

[LoveB]

How much did the back axle cost?

[wally]

After taking delivery of my 2.2 130 and driving the half hour back home I thought I'd made a big mistake. I really didn't like the way it drove at all. I've been driving Defenders for eighteen years - I'm used to backlash. But there's something about the puma - its combination of drive by wire and electronic interventions, the throttle flare etc that just make it hard to drive smoothly. This is my sixth Defender. I still have two Tdi 130s and I made the decision to buy the new one as a replacement for both of them. I love the Tdis so it was a big decision. I had the software upgrade to the PCM and that made a difference. I was very tempted to put in the wire loop to stop the engine flare but decided I'd try to live with it. Our relationship got off to a rocky start and we're going through a long period of getting to know each other. We're developing an understanding now, and I'm finding that I like it a little bit more each time I drive it. Most of the time I drive it smoothly now, but every now and then, when I fail to get the throttle input just right after a gear change, the driveline starts shunting. Tdis and Td5s just didn't do that. I liked them the first time I drove them and I didn't have to adjust to them. But we'll get there. Once I adjust to her we'll be OK. It has all the power I need - no problems there. And I don't get any vibrations.

[n plus one]

Driveline backlash is a common problem for most Defender owners.

I have an SVX 2.4 motor and it had this issue from new and also complained to the dealer with no outcome. My only thing I could do was to drive as smooth as I could - this would help but not all the time.

Ater the warranty period, I began getting serviced by Ritters. I didn't mention anything but after the first service they said the driveline backlash was excessive and I needed a new rear axle. Mind you, this was with only 60,000kms on the clock!!! I at first rejected that my new car needed a new axle after only 60,000kms but after thinking it through, I went ahead.

When I picked it up after getting the new axle (Maxi drive type), it was like driving a different vehicke - no more backlash noticeable and it now drove better than new and I am not joking.

So, consider replacing the back axle.


Nigel

^^^^ this!

I've got maxi drive hd axles and flanges in the back of my Puma (2.4) and just the flanges in the front.

Enormous reduction in lash - hard to overstate how much improvement makes.

[fonfe]

Hi all. I recently purchased the 2013 110 Defender in Nara Bronze. This is one of a small handful of Defenders I have owned & have always been a devout advocate. However, unfortunately I have found the new MY13 Defender to be a little short of the mark. I have had major hassles & are still trying to resolve a long list of issues with the vehicle (less than 40000kms). Land Rover have requested evidence of forums where similar problems with the gearbox, engine, driveline - basically PUMA in general are discussed. I would appreciate anyone that could post on this thread regarding any issues or altercations they have had with Land Rover or with the Defender. Below is a list of problems;


Engine revs between gears causing slow & difficult gear changes
unjustifiable drive line back lash at only 3000kms
drive line vibration in low range
underpowered in comparison to the 90 with only 150kms difference in Tare weight.


* just get used to it, it's not a sports car it's a diesel 4x4. Quick gear changes were never the intention for the vehicle.
*backlash isn't there if you slowly raise the clutch pedal. So again drive it slower and less aggressively
*slight vibration sounds pretty normal for low range in a puma
*if you want more go, get a bigger intercooler and get the ecu re flashed. Did you not drive it before you bought it? Surely you knew it wouldn't be fast?

[inken_dave]

After owning a 2013 Puma for four days I'm no expert, but I have owned Land Rovers for many years now in various states of dis-repair!

There are several factors everybody needs to understand regarding the backlash experienced in their Puma machines.

Firstly, this machine, I'm guessing, has the quietest engine so far, and any noises which they are hearing have been there in other machines, but have gone un-noticed because of the louder ambient noise in the cockpit! Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is certainly my experience going from a TDI300 110 to the 2013 Puma. This may not apply so much to the TDI5 with the DMF (Duel Mass Flywheel).

Secondly, the design of the transfer box has not really changed significantly over many years. Technologies such as herringbone gears have not been utilised. Which leads to the primary reason for such large amounts of backlash, the constant mechanical 4X4 drive train! A lot of little movements will add up to a lot! Remember, the centre diff needs to take the slack from itself, and both the front and rear axels before it can deliver power. This happens every time you change gear, and it happens every time you go around a corner, with neutral throttle going to positive or negative, or a roundabout as the front overtakes the rear due to the front travelling more distance!

Thirdly, there is also a good reason why the Rover wheel hub splines have a lot of tolerance, if a wheel bearing starts to move, then the concentricity of the wheel to the axel will change for the worse. If left unchecked, apart from the failure of the bearing, the axel will also be damaged. In fact the axel will start to bend every revolution. The low tolerance allows this wear to be picked up, but has the disadvantage of driveline backlash! On tight wheel hubs, you must keep a closer eye on wheel bearing condition, especially in harsh conditions! Tight wheel hubs do make a difference, and is worth looking at. I found that with my TDI 300 110.

The Puma driveline does have heritage , but I have found I’m now adapting my driving technique to suit. Land Rover Defenders last a long time, but it really helps the back pocket, and the longevity of the vehicle if you drive with mechanical sympathy!

Any corrections to the above are welcome!:)

[Byronclassiccars]

Thank you to everyone that has contributed to this post, sorry that I have been quiet since my initial post but my wife and I just had our first baby:D. My defender recently went back to the dealer with a rather long list of faults, only to be returned with most unattended to :( most notable the backlash, gear box and power output. All this aside I still love it (must have rocks in my head). to the dealers credit they have offered a free service at 10,000km. If this was our first defender I probably wouldn't be so disappointed but I expected a lot more from the so called upgrade.

[landybehr]

Thirdly, there is also a good reason why the Rover wheel hub splines have a lot of tolerances ...

:angel: I´m inclined to think, that the tolerance can only be there accidentally. Give the build quality, which certainly is a heritage thing, this way it´d make more sense to me than them doing it intentionally :)

I like to see it the way that the wheel bearing "adjustment" with the spacer (from TD5 on) between the wheel bearings is a real improvement. They no longer turn down the stub axle and the adjustment will be permanent. If properly lubricated then there should be no noticeable wear. This in turn doesn´t speak against better drive members then ?

[Disco4_tech]

I have no problems with driving them. I just show them respect in gear changes and always remember that it's made for one thing ! That's not being used as a city runner on the M5 in Sydney.

Hats off to the people who respect this!

[inken_dave]

:angel: I´m inclined to think, that the tolerance can only be there accidentally. Give the build quality, which certainly is a heritage thing, this way it´d make more sense to me than them doing it intentionally :)

?

I think you are generally right! My 1954 Series 1 which my son and I are slowly restoring has almost the exact same design. Land Rover have been reluctant to upgrade their overall design.

I know that the backlash experienced by many, was in my Series IIA 109, Both Series 3 109 six's, Defender 110 TDI 300, and my Puma! So I haven’t been surprised and perhaps my driving style is already adapted!

I find that a slower gear changes help, but also keeping the engine revs up, even after the RPM "flare" has dropped off seems to help considerably

Another very strange observation is: Running my tyres at 27psi (I live on a very rough dirt road, and really helps ride and vibration) has really quietened my backlash noise.

Very strange I know, but it has helped somehow! Perhaps the extra drag on the road? I don't know!

The engine RPM "Flare" really helps the backlash problem (I suspect this is part of the reason for it) when you remove your foot suddenly from the throttle, you don't get the backlash bunt! On all my other machines, if you suddenly removed your foot from the throttle, you really felt and herd the backlash noise!

[101 Ron]

Landrover still have not learnt lessons from the early 1970s with the Japanese takeover of the 4wd market.
They still produce models with the same old mistakes.
A 80 series Toyota has constant 4wd like a defender( most likely copied from landrover) and they do not suffer backlash problems unless they have done much hard work and many ks under them.

Toyota are smart enough to produce axle and drive flanges in one piece and remove any possible causes for play.( I beleive Landover has not done this because they do not have the manufacturing equiptment to do so easliy.)

My 101 Landrover has axle drive flanges on a near forty year old vehivle with little wear and back lash in the drive train, because the flanges and axles are a reasonable size and the splines are oil lubricated and not run dry like late model defenders.

The throttle , reving in between gears is done to meet emissions .

Landrover have not done there home work and dont want to do so, as in the past they have proven they can do so.

[c.h.i.e.f]

Landrover still have not learnt lessons from the early 1870s with the Japanese takeover of the 4wd market.
They still produce models with the same old mistakes.
A 80s Toyota has constant 4wd like a defender( most likely copied from landrover) and they do not suffer backlash problems unless they have done much hard work and many ks under them.

Toyota are smart enough to produce axle and drive flanges in one piece and remove any possible causes for play.( I beleive Landover has not done this because they do not have the manufacturing equiptment to do so easliy.)

My 101 Landrover has axle drive flanges on a near forty year old vehivle with little wear and back lash in the drive train, because the flanges and axles are a reasonable size and the splines are oil lubricated and not run dry like late model defenders.

The throttle , reving in between gears is done to meet emissions .

Landrover have not done there home work and dont want to do so, as in the past they have proven they can do so.
These are good points...
I like a lot of others on here own a range of different year model landrovers and I do notice some things have been improved over the years but others have not.
Out of all my landrovers my 1986 model would have to be the best to drive on and off road.
All my mates drive patrols or cruisers and my partner owns a cruiser ute yeah the rides rough due to HD leafs but the driveline feels so much smoother and stronger than the rovers...be a bit harsh with the clutch in a Toyota and you don't have to worry about horrible noises come from somewhere under the car try doing it in a rover and see what happens...

[Mettalique]

Hi gentlemen, I have just bought a Defender 90 that has about 1500km on it now. It is obvious I have a lot to learn about the newer ones. There is some backlash on mine but not terribly noticable. As a former mechanic and vehicle inspector for RACQ I have learnt to adapt to everything I get into. My previous ride was a Suzuki Swift Sport for 6 years and it was completely different....it's fair to say the Defender is not a 'fun' car to drive like that (it was like driving a go-kart) but it has the charm that I've always liked about Landrovers. It needs to be driven slower although I'm totally happy with the power anyhow.
I've worked on and driven enough of them to know the difference. i remember stripping a 2a gearbox down after it had done about 200.000mls and seeing just how little wear the gears had. It impressed me at the time. as to backlash, the old ones would wander one way under acceleration and the otherway when you backed off...albeit accompanied with large clunks. But they kept going. Amazing machines.
I've bought it because I like utalitarian vehicles, and am put off by all the extra bells and whistles the modern stuff has.
But we'll see I spose.....

[Rmpatti]

Hi all,
New to the forum (have been reading up for a while researching) and am in the process of buying a 2013 110.

n plus one (or anyone else in the ACT area) who do you get to service and maintain your landy? I've had two new cars over the years from the dealer (nissan and vw) and refuse to get anything serviced by them if I have any other choice.

it's good to get a good insight into issues and 'quirks' before I get one - I'm sure I'll enjoy it immensly!

[Loubrey]

Rmpatti,

I've had my share of issues with Land Rover dealers over the years in South Africa, Regional Central Africa and the UK and I have been very surprised and impressed by the dealer who has looked after my 90 for the past 3 years here in Perth.

I've had corporate service though and the dealers pricing structure will most probably have me using an independent service centre going forward.

Having said that this service does differ from dealer to dealer but don't be too surprised if some of the feedback does advise you towards one of the main dealers.

Cheers,

Lou

[ezyrama]

On the Tardis, my 2.2ltr series 12, I've had the turbo hose come loose at 137km on the clock and drop into limp mode, I've had the front drive-shaft bolts come loose and vibrate through the drive train as you slow at about 40km/h downwards, I have had to adjust my driving style to try to eliminate the back lash during gear changes (probably slowed me down actually). I have mentioned to my dealer that my old series 2a has less back lash at times but I don't think he knew what a 2a was;). At least it's a bit quieter inside that my diesel series 3 was anyway!! but I insulated under the floor mats and under the bonnet as I read an article in LRM where they stated 70% of cabin noise in a Defender enters through the windscreen, it has dropped the cabin noise by at least 10dba and now I dont have to crank up the radio to hear it. As for the DMF, I replaced one in a Jackaroo a while ago but I only wish I got it for $1k, the Holden stealership wanted $6500 :o for one so we replaced it with a SMF at a measly $1500 which IMHO was much better. Just keep your dealer informed on any and every concern you have, at least they will have a record of it for later if any of it becomes a problem if they wont act on it now. BTW, what's the PCM remap you spoke about earlier Lou? and Byron, Congrats on becoming a new Dad.
Cheers Ian

[Psimpson7]

Toyota are smart enough to produce axle and drive flanges in one piece and remove any possible causes for play.( I beleive Landover has not done this because they do not have the manufacturing equiptment to do so easliy.)

.

Defender 90's and Disco 1's have 1 piece rear axle/drive flanges standard.

LR have made tens/hundreds of thousands of them....

[uninformed]

Defender 90's and Disco 1's have 1 piece rear axle/drive flanges standard.

LR have made tens/hundreds of thousands of them....

:D classic

[Summiitt]

Hi all,
New to the forum (have been reading up for a while researching) and am in the process of buying a 2013 110.

n plus one (or anyone else in the ACT area) who do you get to service and maintain your landy? I've had two new cars over the years from the dealer (nissan and vw) and refuse to get anything serviced by them if I have any other choice.

it's good to get a good insight into issues and 'quirks' before I get one - I'm sure I'll enjoy it immensly!

Welcome, I'm running 3 defender utes at the moment for work, 2 of them I service myself, the newer 130 I've actually been very impressed with lennock land rover, the service guys are separate to other vehicles and workshop and the head mechanic is a guru on defenders in particular, he knows the product inside out..the other guys to recommend are Ritchie from Hume off road, they are ontop of their game.

[Rmpatti]

Welcome, I'm running 3 defender utes at the moment for work, 2 of them I service myself, the newer 130 I've actually been very impressed with lennock land rover, the service guys are separate to other vehicles and workshop and the head mechanic is a guru on defenders in particular, he knows the product inside out..the other guys to recommend are Ritchie from Hume off road, they are ontop of their game.

Good to hear Lennock LR service are separate from their vw and nissan guys. I've had mediocre to woeful services from those 2 - if not for decent extended warrenty through the leasing company i use they would have cost me about $5k on the vw - kept telling me nothing was wrong - took it to a specialist guy in Belconnen who confirmed the issue after a quick drive. Given comments about the quirkiness of LR, I want to be confident that anyone looking after it knows their stuff!!

[Defecon 110]

A great truck when she works. Sadly bought as new in 2012 and she has needed flat bed recovery on 3/4 long distance trips. Apparently the transfer case has failed again which is the 2nd time is less than 12 months. Which left me stranded alone on the Birdsville track for a day. As much as I love her when she works I am wishing I had spent the extra and bought a Land Cruiser!! Sacrilege I know but the constant reliability issues and the constant hassles with dealers and land rover assist is becoming an increasing frustration. Sadly I have spent too much fitting her out for touring to throw in the towel but I'm now resigning myself that I need a 2nd "off roader" to take me to places like the Cape, Kimberlies, Simpson etc which is what I spent all that money buying the Puma new from the show room!! Yes it's an iconic vehicle but one that will sadly forever be known as unreliable due of quality issues that simply shouldn't exist on a vehicle that Land rover has had 70 years to perfect!! A shame as she outclasses Patrols all day long when she's working!! But no matter how gently she is treated she just rolls over and dies almost every time...

[voltron]

Sounds like some bad luck you are having. I headed to NT from NSW 2 months ago with the same concerns as yourself. Luckily I came home unscathed and the vehicle did the trip fine, but I know what you mean, I had my moments where I wandered why I didnt buy a workmate, then I drive the 110 and all that fades away. Like you say, great when It works but frustrating when it's not.
I have drawn a line in the sand that if it ever breaks down and puts my family's holiday into turmoil, I will cut my losses and sell the car. It's happened once and I wont let it happen a 3rd time. :nazilock:

[n plus one]

A great truck when she works. Sadly bought as new in 2012 and she has needed flat bed recovery on 3/4 long distance trips. Apparently the transfer case has failed again which is the 2nd time is less than 12 months. Which left me stranded alone on the Birdsville track for a day. As much as I love her when she works I am wishing I had spent the extra and bought a Land Cruiser!! Sacrilege I know but the constant reliability issues and the constant hassles with dealers and land rover assist is becoming an increasing frustration. Sadly I have spent too much fitting her out for touring to throw in the towel but I'm now resigning myself that I need a 2nd "off roader" to take me to places like the Cape, Kimberlies, Simpson etc which is what I spent all that money buying the Puma new from the show room!! Yes it's an iconic vehicle but one that will sadly forever be known as unreliable due of quality issues that simply shouldn't exist on a vehicle that Land rover has had 70 years to perfect!! A shame as she outclasses Patrols all day long when she's working!! But no matter how gently she is treated she just rolls over and dies almost every time...

Sorry to hear you've had a bad run, but they're plenty capable of the trips you're talking about - plenty on this forum have done far tougher and more remote work than that - mine's (09 2.4) done the Simpson, outback WA, Vic High Country multiple times and is of to the Cape in a month and the Canning this time next year - 100k of this kind of stuff no dramas.

Your TC issues are odd (as the LT230 is known as a pretty tough unit) - they normally only die from poor oil change practices (which unfortunately is consistent with the recommended servicing schedule) and people not engaging them as soon as they hit the dirt - which kills 'em quicker than you can blink (and is the result of bag driving practices).

My truck had it's replaced (under warranty) as I'd done a lot of heavy towing at high temps - I was there when the oil came out (at 80k) and it was so cooked I demanded a replacement TC (it was working fine however).

If it makes you feel any better, my mates LC76 is about to get its second gearbox and clutch under warranty....

Voltron, I hear what you're saying, but I can honestly say from direct experience that you're fooling yourself if you think other makes don't have issues - on my last remote trip a virtually new Toyota had a show stopper that would have left it stranded in the desert without a fair bit of bush mechanic work.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to Toyota bash hear (love the sound of those V8s!) or be a one-eyed LR fanboy, just relaying some experiences.

PS I'd (very strongly) recommend going to an independent LR specialist for your servicing.

[voltron]

Voltron, I hear what you're saying, but I can honestly say from direct experience that you're fooling yourself if you think other makes don't have issues - on my last remote trip a virtually new Toyota had a show stopper that would have left it stranded in the desert without a fair bit of bush mechanic work.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to Toyota bash hear (love the sound of those V8s!) or be a one-eyed LR fanboy, just relaying some experiences.

PS I'd (very strongly) recommend going to an independent LR specialist for your servicing.

Hey mate.

I am over the idea of buying a Toyota now and figure if Im gonna break down, I might as well do it in the comfort of a Disco 4 or something:p. But if we continue to travel as we have been I will seriously look at the Iveco Daily as my family of 2 kids will be 3 very soon. But thats only if it breaks down again. Im sensing the defender will treat me well from here on in.

Cheers

[alan48]

Hi all,
we have just returned from the Centre and the Kimberly area incl some of the tough tracks with an MY14 110s/w and a late MY 13 130 CC with a Beyond slide on camper and we experienced absolutely no problems apart from a dust leak in the rear door area of the wagon. The two cars preformed really well considering the weight being carried incl long range tanks etc, also no punctures--wagon on Goodyear MT as supplied and 130 on BFG MT. The wagon even towed a bogged Prado hitched to a Nissan ie both at once out of a creek crossing to Mitchell Falls so no concerns re ability. The cars cruise easily at max highway speeds with their 2.2 motors--in our opinion way ahead of the 2.4's we have also both had previously--they are just nice to drive. Mots irritating road was the Tanami Track --just endless corrugations and for no real benefit re scenery apart from endless wrecks and roll overs--would not use again but go up via the bitumen.

Both cars have now been serviced --their first service at their local dealer.
So far so good!

[PAT303]

A great truck when she works. Sadly bought as new in 2012 and she has needed flat bed recovery on 3/4 long distance trips. Apparently the transfer case has failed again which is the 2nd time is less than 12 months. Which left me stranded alone on the Birdsville track for a day. As much as I love her when she works I am wishing I had spent the extra and bought a Land Cruiser!! Sacrilege I know but the constant reliability issues and the constant hassles with dealers and land rover assist is becoming an increasing frustration. Sadly I have spent too much fitting her out for touring to throw in the towel but I'm now resigning myself that I need a 2nd "off roader" to take me to places like the Cape, Kimberlies, Simpson etc which is what I spent all that money buying the Puma new from the show room!! Yes it's an iconic vehicle but one that will sadly forever be known as unreliable due of quality issues that simply shouldn't exist on a vehicle that Land rover has had 70 years to perfect!! A shame as she outclasses Patrols all day long when she's working!! But no matter how gently she is treated she just rolls over and dies almost every time...

Are you driving with the diff lock on?,I can't understand how you can have two failed T/C's in 12 months. Pat

[ozrob]

I bought my MY13 110 in December, picked it up from the dealer and it was straight on to the highway, drove it like I stole it....no running in or taking it gentle.
It has now 36000km on the clock, and never been back to a dealer for any repairs, I do all my own servicing.
So what has gone wrong in 36000km, the rear door needs to be unlocked using the key.....and the RHF swivel housing is starting to leak oil....
I had to seal the body to stop the dust from getting into the cabin.
The inter cooler hose was rubbing on the steering box, and steering arm when I got it home from the dealer, so I wrapped a protective plastic sleeve around the hose and cable tied it up out of the way.
Should i worry about the inter cooler hose recall?, perhaps not as people are still having issues.
I find that it drives OK for a truck, the Defender is not a Japanese 4x4 that is refined, drive line backlash...it is there, and is also in the entire fleet of Army 110"s...I have good air conditioning and don't need to wear a rain coat in side the cabin when it rains....[bigsmile]
Remember folks...it is a Defender and not a Subaru, Suzuki Grand Vitara, or a Prado....the new Defender is a work vehicle....even the wife likes driving it.:o

[specwarop]

"With 90 percent of peak power constantly on tap from as low as 2,200rpm to over 4,350rpm"

Excerpt from the Land Rover website, who here runs their 2.2L upto 4350rpm?
In everyday driving, I operate anywhere between 1800rpm to 2500rpm. Anything above 2500rpm it sounds like the engine is gonna explode...What you guys think?

[noyakfat]

Yep, I tend to drive with what I regard as a fair bit of mechanical sympathy.

Most of my upshifting occurs at revs of about 2,000 to 2,250 or thereabouts (I go by sound, but a glance down usually has it somewhere thereabouts).

[Pickles2]

"With 90 percent of peak power constantly on tap from as low as 2,200rpm to over 4,350rpm"

Excerpt from the Land Rover website, who here runs their 2.2L upto 4350rpm?
In everyday driving, I operate anywhere between 1800rpm to 2500rpm. Anything above 2500rpm it sounds like the engine is gonna explode...What you guys think?
4350?...Never even tried it,...why would I?
Yes, 1800-2500 is where I'm at, & it suits us fine.
Pickles.

[voltron]

I think this is more of a result of the bare panels resonating from the vibration of the motor. Once I Dynamatted my 110 and run a fair bit of insulation throught the floor and door, and double door seals, the motor sounds fairly tame now.

Just my opinion anyway.

[BilboBoggles]

oops double post deleted

[BilboBoggles]

4350?...Never even tried it,...why would I?
Yes, 1800-2500 is where I'm at, & it suits us fine.
Pickles.


;-) 4000 regularly.


I once bought a 300tdi, that had been driven in city driving by a very careful gentleman. The first time I took it up the hill near where I live it barely managed 40ks.. Well After giving it it's first good thrashing in a long time - and seeing massive clouds of black smoke - which I reckon was soot build up in the muffler - it would easily hit 60k's up that hill. I think diesels need a bit of a good thrash when new to bed in the rings, and a regular thrash to make sure the carbon/soot does not build up too much..

[PAT303]

^ yep,drove my Tdi like I stole it,getting near 500,000k's without any oil burning,my TDCi was bouncing off the limiter an hour after I picked it up from the dealer,only issue is I've now noticed driveline slap,my axle flanges have both got play in them,a new pair from Paddocks for 25 pounds will be ordered tonight. Pat

[tact]

Mine gets a good push every now and then from two different angles when its been thoroughly warmed:
- full throttle workout with revs relatively low (upshift 2000-2500rpm)
- then let her spin right up in each gear to just over 4000rpm

Just to blow the soot out.

[n plus one]

Same, babying them doesn't seem to do them any favours for what I've seen.

And you certainly won't by lugging 2,000rpm up hill in sixth once you've fitted an egt -- they go through the roof with this kind on driving style and the standard puma fuel is (apparently) more than capable of cooking the turbo....

[voltron]

oops double post deleted

Jesus, Im not even sure what Im on about there.

Hmmm..

[Juff]

I've just had a look with the intent to buy a 2012 model with 50000 on it. All seems in order however I noticed the power steering fluid was on minimum... Perhaps not a big deal...?? The coolant level was about a thumb width below the cold level though. I'm wondering if it was just leaking around the cap, did appear to be some fluid in the thread buts could it be more sinister?

[rgty_kmj]

I noticed that the power steering fluid was almost on the bottom of the dipstick on my 2012 model last week. I can't see where it has leaked out. But have bought some of the official stuff at $50 a litre so that I can keep an eye on it.

Kerry

[PAT303]

Your coolant and PS fluid will go up and down depending on what the vehicle is doing at the time,don't overfill either or it'll spray out of the cap. Pat

[AndyG]

Collected Defender in early Sept, 5000 km in two weeks including Birdsville & Strezleki Track, 5000 k service at independent with objective to find classic defects, result , Zero :p

I got lucky or they got it right.

Apart from some dust ingress of course, but those tracks were a fair test.

[Damo89]

Apart from some dust ingress of course, but those tracks were a fair test.

Funny you mention this. I picked up my 110SW in August and have noticed a lot of sand and dust comes in, especially through the bottom of the rear doors. I looked on here for after market door seals but heard the new genuine LR ones were the way to go. Considering mine have these seals already, is there anything else I can do to combat the sand and dust coming in?

Also - just hit 5000km's - should I be looking at some kind of service? LR told me not to worry until 20,000km.

[specwarop]

I am also interested in what are the classic defects to look for?

[BilboBoggles]

Funny you mention this. I picked up my 110SW in August and have noticed a lot of sand and dust comes in, especially through the bottom of the rear doors. I looked on here for after market door seals but heard the new genuine LR ones were the way to go. Considering mine have these seals already, is there anything else I can do to combat the sand and dust coming in?

Also - just hit 5000km's - should I be looking at some kind of service? LR told me not to worry until 20,000km.

The best way of stopping dust entry is

1 - Never drive with your windows open - this creates a vacuum inside the cabin which will suck dust in.
2 - Always have the fan going on flow through to pressurise the cabin. You can see how effective this is by running the fan on full - close all of the doors and windows and running a wet hand around the seams - you will feel the air pushed out. This is also a good way to find gaps in the seams that you can seal with Sikaflex.

The dust coming through the rear doors may not actually be coming through the door aperture itself. There is a large seam caused by the rear seat box (where the seats sit) and the rear door frame - the angled part of the lower door frame, that is almost always unsealed on a Defender. If you are not keeping the cabin pressurised it will suck a lot of dust in there. Its also quite difficult to seal effectively.

[AndyG]

Funny you mention this. I picked up my 110SW in August and have noticed a lot of sand and dust comes in, especially through the bottom of the rear doors. I looked on here for after market door seals but heard the new genuine LR ones were the way to go. Considering mine have these seals already, is there anything else I can do to combat the sand and dust coming in?

Also - just hit 5000km's - should I be looking at some kind of service? LR told me not to worry until 20,000km.

I did an oil change & general inspection because it was a fairly hard 5000 km, and i don't mind a change on a new engine. The LR dealer actually had me penciled in for a 10,000 kn service, despite the book saying 20,000 on non arduous road.
90% of my dust came through the bottom of the rear door, i will have to check out Clark Rubber and put a second seal there to compress against the door.

[PeachyAU]

As a prospective 90 buyer, this is the thread I've been looking for. Thanks everyone for sharing your not so nice experiences. I'll keep an eye on it.

[FeatherWeightDriver]

+ for the above

I closed up the daylight gaps (or at least tried to) at the bottom of both the B and C pillars

[Defecon 110]

Are you driving with the diff lock on?,I can't understand how you can have two failed T/C's in 12 months. Pat
Only have the centre diff engaged when off the black top and on lose stuff. IE sand, mud etc. the first time the diff went was around the zigzag railway the last time was going up big red after leading a trip through the flinders and across the simpson. The truck ground to a halt 3/4 of the way up big red and popped out of the centre diff at which point I headed up big red the easy route. Then heading down the birdsville track all sorts of noises developed before the transfer case completely failed. I have always been very careful of engaging the centre diff only when needed and have been extremely blooming careful not to have it engaged when it shouldn't. According to the local Landy mechanic the 2.2s are prone to shoddy transfer cases. Once the warranty expires I'm looking for a better transfer case as all of my trips are remote and I can't afford to have the risk of it failing again, and again....

[GlennWA]

28 Aug 12 build 110 wagon 76, 000km
Air con temp sensor replaced
Warped Roof - My advice would be never to fit a roof rack as it limits flex and gives your warranty hell. I only use roof bars and keep it flexible up there. Put it down to a learning experience.
Rear diff replaced after a whine was observed - was probably ok but.
TC replaced after a rattle at 85 and 95 km/h in all gears at 74, 000 and leaking oil. A one off?
Intercooler hose rubbed through
Turbo hose popped off
Rear door lock needs key
Seat box rubber mould wearing through
Heated windshield replaced due to defective elements
Difflock adjusted
Notchy 2nd gear change when cold

Never let me down on any trip including through WA or NT trips. Done some heavy towing Melb-Darwin-Adelaide. Did notice on towing that on some long hills coolant temp rises quickly on the scan gauge yet the gauge never moved. Still on factory goodyear MTRs with about 5mm of tread. Don't stop at BP Wallam southbound - there is some electrical interference and you won't be able to start! Tow truck driver knew more than LR assist and gave me a nudge to the car park where it started to the surprise of a few patrol owners. I was happy I had heard about this issue before:)

Would recommend independent servicing. On a corporate plan so am making use of the obvious cost savings. If I had my time again I would not haven taken it to a dealer and I have tried six around the country - although the alice springs dealer seemed ok when I visited with a 60, 000km oil change indicator that came on after a having just had a service at around 58, 000.

Overall I am relatively happy. Biggest issues, apart from the TC failure, have been dealer inflicted.

Yes I would buy again although Firenze Red appears to be replaced on MY15 models:o

[Defender90007]

Hi all,

I had problems with my 2012 Defender 90, you can read the comments in the thread : http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/210520-defender-90-2012-clutch-gerar-box-noise.html . After some haggling with the dealer they supposedly replaced the clutch and the noise described in thread was gone, what I noticed more than anything else though was the lack of tail shaft slop, that had also gone, I was absolutely stoked as that was really annoying. Trust me, if your getting this noise it's not your driving technique, I've been driving trucks for years and I think I know how to change gears, I'm unsure what work they actually carried out but they did do a bloody good job, I swear the gear box is as quiet as a conventional car gear box now, reckon my missus would even be okay driving it .
I have never had any issues with vibrations.

[voltron]

Hi all,

I had problems with my 2012 Defender 90, you can read the comments in the thread : http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/210520-defender-90-2012-clutch-gerar-box-noise.html . After some haggling with the dealer they supposedly replaced the clutch and the noise described in thread was gone, what I noticed more than anything else though was the lack of tail shaft slop, that had also gone, I was absolutely stoked as that was really annoying. Trust me, if your getting this noise it's not your driving technique, I've been driving trucks for years and I think I know how to change gears, I'm unsure what work they actually carried out but they did do a bloody good job, I swear the gear box is as quiet as a conventional car gear box now, reckon my missus would even be okay driving it .
I have never had any issues with vibrations.

All my issues regarding backlash and gear changes seem to have been resolved also when my mechanic friend spotted a TC leak and told me to take it to Landrover. They never really told me what they did but they fixed the leak and the backlash and slop all but disappeared and my box is quite pleasant much like yours . Maybe they are not sure what they did either.

[Goof01]

My first post here. I have a 14 defender 90. 2000 k's had a loose blanking plug in the gearbox. That was fixed by the dealer. At 4000 k's has a howl from diff? at 90 km/h. The dealer said keep an eye on it. Leaking front windscreen also fixed by the dealer. Also leaking into the cab from the fuel filler somewhere. Diff backlash. Check. Still love it best out of all the cars I've had.

[clive22]

Hi,

Went for a cruise through the yarra state forest this morning in my 2012 defender 130 2.2 puma. 43000 clicks. This truck has been well looked after, serviced every 5k

Turned up a graded forest road, moderately steep, in 4wd terms. Noticed a couple of significant heavy metal sounding clonks underneath around g/box region, maybe front diff region.

About 4 ks further up the hill, driving at 40 ks, a loud bang, then total loss of drive. Tried forward, reverse, low range, centre diff lock in, still no drive, just a horrible graunching sound.

Anyway abandoned truck and walked with family some 5k back to local and the publican took us all home.

Phone call made and it is off to nearest local dealer for assessment and repair.

Nothing under indicative of damage no escaped oil props hafts fine, suspect g/bOx mainshaft atm

Will find out in due course I guess


Clive

[PAT303]

Adapter shaft. Pat

[clive22]

ThanKs for the tip Pat
Sounds like it, it looks like this problem has been going on since the '07 introduction of the puma engines.


Seems rough consensus seems to be lack of assembly lube.

Then again the output splines on my 85 county stripped too and I replaced them with an Ashcroft gear cross drilled item.

Different era, different boxes but same basic problem


clive

[PAT303]

Clive,it's a load of BS engineering,the bloody shaft is 8'' long but has 1' of drive spline,is it any wonder they strip.I'm waiting on Ashcrofts updated shaft and might do the ATB center as well. Pat

[clive22]

I also noted a thread mentioning an Ashcroft upgraded part.

Unfortunately when I checked on ashcrofts website no such part.
Pity as I have a good run with there stuff eg: ,hd r&p, shafts, input gears, etc.

I thought I dodged a bullet with all the puma bs, but not so.

That said I reckon it's better made than my 85 county was when we took delivery way back then. The quality of the interior fittings was appalling in particular we took it back for heaps of problems, locks, radio, window winders, electrical issues.

Clive

[AndyG]

Do Ashcrofts have an Australian distributor?

[clive22]

Not officially as far as I know. Les Richmond was reselling in the past, not sure now

I and from my readings on this forum most are ordering straight from uk. The service is good. Finding a good installer is more the issue than a reseller it the install and fine set up where it all happens

Ian Ashcroft is a member under ashtrans here.


Clive

[Loubrey]

Clive,it's a load of BS engineering,the bloody shaft is 8'' long but has 1' of drive spline,is it any wonder they strip.I'm waiting on Ashcrofts updated shaft and might do the ATB center as well. Pat

Pat,

Have you by any chance recently spoken to Ashcrofts about an approximate time frame for a fix on this issue? I've not seen Ian (ashtrans) on here for a while.

Same as you, I'm thinking of upgrading as preventative maintenance, but I'd like to do it in one go (ATB centre plus whatever the new fix turns out to be).

Mine's got a bit of lash, but not bad at this stage. However, considering the GBH trip later this year I would like the piece of mind...

Cheers,

Lou

[PAT303]

Lou,I did receive an email from Dave,he told me work on a new shaft is already in progress and will be available this month,as soon as mine starts getting backlash I'm going to get the shaft and ATB and change them over,the TDCi center diff will be re-shimmed and then fitted to my Tdi with a new T/C as mines leaking like a sieve,my Tdi needs a new clutch also and then a tune at united injection services and both will be happy happy,almost forgot,I've found a bloke who will re-charge the TDCi's A/C with Hychill gas for $220 and he will come to me,then LED headlights are next. Pat

[PAT303]

Pat,

Have you by any chance recently spoken to Ashcrofts about an approximate time frame for a fix on this issue? I've not seen Ian (ashtrans) on here for a while.

Same as you, I'm thinking of upgrading as preventative maintenance, but I'd like to do it in one go (ATB centre plus whatever the new fix turns out to be).

Mine's got a bit of lash, but not bad at this stage. However, considering the GBH trip later this year I would like the piece of mind...

Cheers,

Lou

Lou,if you have slack in the adapter shaft don't do the GBH,mate when they go they go and you will be stuck with no go. Pat

[Loubrey]

Hi Pat,

Certainly won't be attempting that! :-)

I'll get it replaced before then, but it would be great if an uprated solution is available before the end of April (my own maintenance deadline) so that I can incorporate it in the rebuild.

Regardless, going as one in a 5 Land Rover convoy so won't be on my own in any case.

Cheers,

Lou

[51mondays]

Just found this article on ford transit reliability - the van has come first for a couple of years in a LARGE survey of UK fleet companies. Good vote for the puma. (Planning on getting a new one and was feeling a little nervous)

Ford Transit crowned most reliable van | Fleet News (http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2014/11/5/ford-transit-crowned-most-reliable-van/53997/)

[EastFreo]

Probably going to jinx myself here but have done almost 9000km since I got the new 110 at the end of Sept last year with no issues. Done a combination of city and country driving and some off road.

[Loubrey]

Something that has been said often enough, but worth repeating...

There is nothing inherently 'wrong" or "weak" on new Defenders!

My car is a 2010 Defender 90 and in the 4 years and 9 months I have owned it from new, I have had the following issues and events:

1. One month in (May 2010) a spade plug on the immobilizer worked loose and I had to be talked through the issue over the phone - fixed with no need to go to the dealer.
2. July 2014 I broke the front diff - wrong line off road and shock loaded the RHS front wheel causing the diff carrier pin to snap. My fault completely and nothing to do with "weak" diffs!

And that's it...! I have a minor leak onto the driver's side seat belt roll which is a touch annoying, but not a show stopper.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with my MT82's output/ adapter shaft (see previous posts), but my local Land Rover dealer will fit my new Ashcroft shaft as preventative maintenance (they are actually dead keen to have a go at it) and I'll keep my old shaft to help out someone who might have future issues. While the TC's out they will also replace some shims that will will remove any hint of lash (their commitment on the issue).

Again, that's it...!

So yes, there are the ODD Tdci Defender out there with issues, but so does every other brand and in significantly larger numbers. Don't kid yourself with "bulletproof" Toyotas and Nissans. They all have long lists of known issues on their current models and they are nowhere near interested in warranty repairs of many of those.

Southern Land Rover (Perth) is our club's main sponsor and I can drive over and have a coffee with the service manager (as I did yesterday) and discuss all and everything associated with my car. They take a real interest and provide spectacular and cost effective service for all Defenders, especially those outside warranty. Try that with any other brand of vehicle...

My car has seen extensive off road use and is my daily driver, and this 90 is by an absolute country mile the best of my 5 Defenders I've owned over the past 20 odd years.

I've for a few moments considered upgrading to a 2015 model, but my current 90 is loved like a family pet and trading it in at this stage would literally be like trading in your 5 year old dog for a new one - unimaginable!

Cheers,

Lou

[PAT303]

Keeping things in perspective the adapter shaft is the only thing gone wrong in my TDCi,mines done the Canning up to Lake Disappointment,Talawana,Kidson,Gary Junction,Gary,Connie Sue,first 100k's of the Anne Beadell from Neal Junction,Great Central,Gibb River and many smaller trips around the Pilbara and Kangaroo Island in South Australia,the North Coast and Southern Forests and crossed Australia 4 times,many times towing my camper.My vehicle is still stock,no rattles,leaks or bits falling off and it goes better know than ever before and gets sub 12ltres per 100 towing sitting on the speed limit. Pat

[scarry]

Just found this article on ford transit reliability - the van has come first for a couple of years in a LARGE survey of UK fleet companies. Good vote for the puma. (Planning on getting a new one and was feeling a little nervous)

Ford Transit crowned most reliable van | Fleet News (http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2014/11/5/ford-transit-crowned-most-reliable-van/53997/)

Problems with electronics is very common with many here in Aus,most are well over 5yrs old.The issues are that bad,Ford,or anyone for that matter, has struggled to repair them.

[loneranger]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with my MT82's output/ adapter shaft (see previous posts), but my local Land Rover dealer will fit my new Ashcroft shaft as preventative maintenance (they are actually dead keen to have a go at it) and I'll keep my old shaft to help out someone who might have future issues. While the TC's out they will also replace some shims that will will remove any hint of lash (their commitment on the issue).


If you don't mind me asking how much are they charging to do the changeover.

[PAT303]

About $900 or so at dealer prices to do it with a genuine shaft,it's not a hard job at all with a hoist. Pat

[Loubrey]

Hi loneranger,

As Pat said for the actual work, but I'm having it done in conjunction with a service and I'm going to need new oil in the gearbox and transfer case. The shaft and female/ female connector are both genuine OEM parts (in original packaging) that's just been modified to lubricate the joint. The third part in the kit is the new cover that's custom made to contain the gearbox oil that will now "leak" into the joint and serve as the new output shaft seal. The mod will only ad about 5 minutes to a standard install.

Southern's are doing it for me so I'm still getting the 10% off the bottom line as club discount for TeamW4 membership.

Cheers,

Lou

[51mondays]

I need convincing. I have a hold on a new 110..........after 3 test drives...........I love it......BUT.....I just cannot get over the line with build quality..!


nothing lines up...I don't care about stuff lining up as such, but I do care if it falls apart/rusts/stops working.


tell me to forget about it..!

[Loubrey]

There is nothing wrong with the build quality of a Defender as there is actually nothing to compare it to... It is not an SUV in any sense of the word and believing it will be one would certainly be a mistake.

If you want a Land Rover and you want car like qualities in build and refinement, buy a Discovery 4.

Defenders are the way they are and you either hate or love them. Very risky taking out the cash if you have doubts... Its a culture thing you have to commit to 100% or you will almost certainly be disappointed.

Good luck with making up your mind, but for me personally the only choice would be what color the defender 90 would be and maybe, just maybe which alloys I should pick... :D

Cheers,

Lou

[LouisW]

51 Monday - Mate I can't speak for quality or reliability but you either get it or you don't.. let me explain to me, my Landy is like my dog, if my dog gets sick I still love it and don't give it away, if my lady breaks down (and the one I owned 10 years ago did ONCE) I sill loved it and fixed it - You don't sell it!

Take the approach a Landy is for life not Xmass

[51mondays]

thanks folks


well that's where i'm going wrong you see - I am comparing a defender to my late model hilux. and the Toyota always seems so damn sensible when I get back into it.


I love the noise of the landy, the way it rides (reminds me a bit of the 1972 combi I once had). I love the way it looks. I just don't wanna drop $50k into a hole. There is so much sense and nonsense online one can't make head nor tail of what's right. I am shocked by all the stories of clutches/rear diffs, TCs, gearboxes, electrics, finishing the last 10% of the car blah blha bbjbjfas. I do like the motor, I wish LR just built the body/ driveshaft with a bit more care.


I'm just nervous. I don't even know what i'm asking anymore.


I like what you're saying LouisW - but how much did you pay for your dog? ;)


I recon the sensible thing to do is probably just man-up and sign-up...and see what happens.

[voltron]

If you are the type of person to regret decisions and beat yourself up over it. I wouldnt buy a new Defender IMO. You have to accept what your getting yourself into basically which seems ridiculous since you are dropping alot of money into the truck. All the stuff you read here isn't nonsense, it's peoples experiences and you will see some have good and some bad. I personally dont believe Toyota have just as many problems as Landrovers, as Toyota does outsell them quite a bit. You can't compare the two vehicles anyway, but if you want and easy 4wd then the toyota would be the pick. I loved my Defender despite the grief and miss it to bits
thanks folks


well that's where i'm going wrong you see - I am comparing a defender to my late model hilux. and the Toyota always seems so damn sensible when I get back into it.


I love the noise of the landy, the way it rides (reminds me a bit of the 1972 combi I once had). I love the way it looks. I just don't wanna drop $50k into a hole. There is so much sense and nonsense online one can't make head nor tail of what's right. I am shocked by all the stories of clutches/rear diffs, TCs, gearboxes, electrics, finishing the last 10% of the car blah blha bbjbjfas. I do like the motor, I wish LR just built the body/ driveshaft with a bit more care.


I'm just nervous. I don't even know what i'm asking anymore.


I like what you're saying LouisW - but how much did you pay for your dog? ;)


I recon the sensible thing to do is probably just man-up and sign-up...and see what happens.

[LouisW]

thanks folks


well that's where i'm going wrong you see - I am comparing a defender to my late model hilux. and the Toyota always seems so damn sensible when I get back into it.


I love the noise of the landy, the way it rides (reminds me a bit of the 1972 combi I once had). I love the way it looks. I just don't wanna drop $50k into a hole. There is so much sense and nonsense online one can't make head nor tail of what's right. I am shocked by all the stories of clutches/rear diffs, TCs, gearboxes, electrics, finishing the last 10% of the car blah blha bbjbjfas. I do like the motor, I wish LR just built the body/ driveshaft with a bit more care.


I'm just nervous. I don't even know what i'm asking anymore.


I like what you're saying LouisW - but how much did you pay for your dog? ;)


I recon the sensible thing to do is probably just man-up and sign-up...and see what happens.

I paid far to much for the Dog my wife wanted it ,it is a pedigree it's dumb yet I love it. Not meaning to sound like a tool or dick head I bought a RRS for my wife and then saw a Landy in the show room and it all came back to me 1982 and 2001. Like meeting a old girlfriend you still have a crush on. Frankly if a new landy cost $100k I would still buy one so will most people on this site. They will moan like hell but still they will find a way to buy it. It not about the money or reliability it's about it history, it's ability and love

[MrLandy]

thanks folks


well that's where i'm going wrong you see - I am comparing a defender to my late model hilux. and the Toyota always seems so damn sensible when I get back into it.


I love the noise of the landy, the way it rides (reminds me a bit of the 1972 combi I once had). I love the way it looks. I just don't wanna drop $50k into a hole. There is so much sense and nonsense online one can't make head nor tail of what's right. I am shocked by all the stories of clutches/rear diffs, TCs, gearboxes, electrics, finishing the last 10% of the car blah blha bbjbjfas. I do like the motor, I wish LR just built the body/ driveshaft with a bit more care.


I'm just nervous. I don't even know what i'm asking anymore.


I like what you're saying LouisW - but how much did you pay for your dog? ;)


I recon the sensible thing to do is probably just man-up and sign-up...and see what happens.

Hey there 51 Monday's, one phenomena of this site is that there is a huge amount about how to fix stuff, so naturally all the problems that need fixing are discussed in detail. The predominance of what looks like bad news stories actually belies the truth about Defenders...they are infact the most robust vehicles on the road.

I've spent many years throughout northern Australia in my Defender. Can't remember how many major road trips North South and west. My Defender only let me down once, a seized alternator in port augusta. But I heard it going and should have changed it earlier. My Defender has outlasted many a Toyota. Many of which in arduous conditions broke diffs, gearboxes, and cracked chassis / bodies! Ive also driven landcruisrs for years for work and I much prefer to be in my defender, not least because the seating position is upright and firm. SO much better on long trips! I could go on all night about the virtues of the Defender...

Man up, buy a Defender and enjoy the quizzical, distainful looks from the Toyota sheep, safe in the knowledge you are driving the most capable, robust, and iconic vehicle that exists. If you service it properly, including preventative maintenance, it will last you over 20 years. Enjoy!

[PAT303]

Don't buy one is my pick.The Tdi had timing belt issue's and spline wear from new,the Td5 had oil pump bolt,plastic dowls,injector loom issue's,the TDCi has adapter shaft wear and clutch,all known and all got fix's,thats part of vehicle ownership,all vehicle ownership. Pat

[51mondays]

Don't buy one is my pick.The Tdi had timing belt issue's and spline wear from new,the Td5 had oil pump bolt,plastic dowls,injector loom issue's,the TDCi has adapter shaft wear and clutch,all known and all got fix's,thats part of vehicle ownership,all vehicle ownership. Pat

So what you're saying is don't buy one, I should buy all three!

....I'll work up to it. I have a series 2a, which is a start.

[jackdef90]

I paid far to much for the Dog my wife wanted it ,it is a pedigree it's dumb yet I love it. Not meaning to sound like a tool or dick head I bought a RRS for my wife and then saw a Landy in the show room and it all came back to me 1982 and 2001. Like meeting a old girlfriend you still have a crush on. Frankly if a new landy cost $100k I would still buy one so will most people on this site. They will moan like hell but still they will find a way to buy it. It not about the money or reliability it's about it history, it's ability and love


wow really you must be loaded

[MrLandy]

...so how does it feel driving your sensible late model hilux? You're obviously not hooked?

[LouisW]

[QUOTE=jackdef90;2316941]wow really you must be loaded[/QUOTE

Loaded or not that's not relevant the point is people don't buy them purely on price point. The history; tradition and love for the defender is what attracts many (not all but many maybe most ). I sold my jaguare XF to buy this so it happens to be a saving but that was not my motivation. Also it is clasless the queen drives one, royalty, many millionaires, and ordinary people like, you(presumption you an ordinary guy) and I

[51mondays]

...so how does it feel driving your sensible late model hilux? You're obviously not hooked?

Yes and no...I do like the Hilux as well, and it has its own good history and icon-ness. The defender just has more.

There are other reasons - I like the wagon, I like the ride of the defender. Don't do hardcore off road but plenty of time in 4wd and plenty of towing.

Mainly I like things that last forever and the defender was meant to last forever but now it's ending production, so I'm panicking.

[Loubrey]

I personally dont believe Toyota have just as many problems as Landrovers, as Toyota does outsell them quite a bit. You can't compare the two vehicles anyway, but if you want and easy 4wd then the toyota would be the pick. I loved my Defender despite the grief and miss it to bits

Voltron,

Mate you will be stunned and surprised if you actually saw the true figures from Toyota. Their percentages are in reality unlikely to be lower than Land Rover's, and if you consider their sales volumes, it is significant...

I have a mate in the UK working as consultant statistician who compile compulsory disclosed consumer data, which most of the motoring companies subscribe to to gauge their performance against their competitors. While he's governed by protection of data clauses and intellectual property regulations I have gleaned some snippets of information.

Word wide examples:

2014 Toyota Prado front diff failures - Between 3.2% and 3.5% of all units sold as well as an undisclosed "significant warranty fix" during scheduled servicing.
2014 Toyota Hilux manual gearbox failures - Between 3.4% and 3.8% of all units sold - The manual still only has a 5 speed box which has a tendency to shear the 5th gear clean off, a design flaw they've chosen not to fix as the bulk supply of gearboxes just makes it easier (and cheaper) to replace under warranty.

You certainly won't see that in their sales brochures, and they have dedicated business development resources managing the situation so nobody ever "hears" about these known issues.

Most of us read the "Oh what a lemon" website and blog of a Land Cruiser 200 Series owner's spectacular list of issues before Toyota took legal action and shut it down.

See the below note from Toyota to the dealer principles - its a few years old now, but it gives you the idea that they have significant issues with oil leaks not really made public knowledge.

http://blkmav.com/myswag/200ttd.pdf

The difference being that the vast majority of Toyota drivers prefer to talk Toyota up, most of their forums have rules that you're not allowed the talk negatively of Toyota and any naysayers gets chucked off before they get the chance to say anything and those posts gets deleted.

Do yourself a favor and try and Google anything negative about Toyota... Bet you find nothing, but believe me its not because there aren't anything...

Cheers,

Lou

[CS78]

Good post above,

I think that the general population get the Toyota brand rammed down their throat so much via advertising that they honestly believe that hilux, cruiser or whatever is the one and only when it comes to 4x4.

I am waiting patiently for my new Defender regardless of any issues it may or may not have. It is a mechanical beast after all and that is what I like.

[PAT303]

Bloody hell Lou,how is it both you and Tombie can post up info based on fact like that no worries yet when I do it I'm flamed as a one eyed blinkered Land Rover tragic who bends over while making excuses?. Pat

[Loubrey]

Pat,

My personal opinion is that Land Rover has over the years just sort of stood the high ground and absorbed the flack instead of hiding it or fighting it.

How many people have over the years told you that Land Rover's are unreliable and prone to failure. We know that its generally rubbish, but why get into an argument with someone less informed?

The far eastern brands have gone out of their way to style their marketing and product base around a perceived image based on bulk sales and accordingly the Hilux is Australia's "favorite" ute. This is purely based on volume of sales as 300 failures in 10,000 is much easier to hide than 3 failures in 100...

Same as you, I'm obviously a Land Rover "tragic" to coin a phrase and I don't really care for other brand's marketing, but it gets my goat up when one of the 3 in 100 failures is used to smear an entire model run of a specific vehicle purely because the marque chooses not to hide the fact.

Cheers,

Lou

[Tombie]

Bloody hell Lou,how is it both you and Tombie can post up info based on fact like that no worries yet when I do it I'm flamed as a one eyed blinkered Land Rover tragic who bends over while making excuses?. Pat


Keep the faith Pat :)

[kogvos]

... it is classless the queen drives one, royalty, many millionaires, and ordinary people ...

I'm not ordinary or a millionaire. I must be royalty.

[MrLandy]

Yes and no...I do like the Hilux as well, and it has its own good history and icon-ness. The defender just has more.

There are other reasons - I like the wagon, I like the ride of the defender. Don't do hardcore off road but plenty of time in 4wd and plenty of towing.

Mainly I like things that last forever and the defender was meant to last forever but now it's ending production, so I'm panicking.

Hi 51mondays, MsLandy here....
When I first moved to Australia, I wanted to purchase a vehicle for some 4WD adventures. We don't have Defenders in the States and the marketing bombardment (as mentioned by Lou) that Toyota puts through the US made me hellbent on buying a Land Cruiser. I can't tell you how grateful I am now that the stars aligned...

You "like the wagon," you "like the ride of the Defender," and you "like things that last forever." As the production of the Defender is ending, it seems clear that the timing is perfect for you to make the leap... a decision you will hopefully never regret and enjoy something that will, indeed, last forever.

[AndyG]

thanks folks


well that's where i'm going wrong you see - I am comparing a defender to my late model hilux. and the Toyota always seems so damn sensible when I get back into it.


I love the noise of the landy, the way it rides (reminds me a bit of the 1972 combi I once had). I love the way it looks. I just don't wanna drop $50k into a hole. There is so much sense and nonsense online one can't make head nor tail of what's right. I am shocked by all the stories of clutches/rear diffs, TCs, gearboxes, electrics, finishing the last 10% of the car blah blha bbjbjfas. I do like the motor, I wish LR just built the body/ driveshaft with a bit more care.


I'm just nervous. I don't even know what i'm asking anymore.


I like what you're saying LouisW - but how much did you pay for your dog? ;)


I recon the sensible thing to do is probably just man-up and sign-up...and see what happens.
I got my defender in sept 2014, without a test drive, I blame this forum, took it for a 5000 km spin to Birdsville etc over two weeks, parked it up and I went back to PNG. Got to home airport and hopped in the near new Hilux, my immediate reaction was, what's wrong with this POS. Nothing , but it's not the Defender ! Btw back in the Deefer on Sunday :)

[AndyG]

I'm not ordinary or a millionaire. I must be royalty.

Or James Bond ;)

[Robmacca]

The difference being that the vast majority of Toyota drivers prefer to talk Toyota up, most of their forums have rules that you're not allowed the talk negatively of Toyota and any naysayers gets chucked off before they get the chance to say anything and those posts gets deleted.

Do yourself a favor and try and Google anything negative about Toyota... Bet you find nothing, but believe me its not because there aren't anything...

Cheers,

Lou

i wouldn't necessarily say that is true...... more and more people are getting frustrated with Toyota in the way they have NOT handled reported issues.... The D4D Injector issue is a debacle and I know quite a few Toyota owners that have had a gut full & have written about it on many many forums..... Some are going away from the Diesel Versions and playing it "safe" and going to Petrol versions.....
We currently have a 150's Prado and to date it's been a great touring car for our family of 5, but as time goes on & my warranty draws near to its end in 2016, I'm getting concerned about the Toyota Injectors and potentially the damage that can be done.....

Might be time to get the Defender sitting in my shed registered and setup as our future tourer.....:)

[loneranger]

thanks folks


well that's where i'm going wrong you see - I am comparing a defender to my late model hilux. and the Toyota always seems so damn sensible when I get back into it.


I love the noise of the landy, the way it rides (reminds me a bit of the 1972 combi I once had). I love the way it looks. I just don't wanna drop $50k into a hole. There is so much sense and nonsense online one can't make head nor tail of what's right. I am shocked by all the stories of clutches/rear diffs, TCs, gearboxes, electrics, finishing the last 10% of the car blah blha bbjbjfas. I do like the motor, I wish LR just built the body/ driveshaft with a bit more care.


I'm just nervous. I don't even know what i'm asking anymore.


I like what you're saying LouisW - but how much did you pay for your dog? ;)


I recon the sensible thing to do is probably just man-up and sign-up...and see what happens.

We test drove a Defender in 2010 and ended up buying a Dmax because it was the sensible choice. I ended up spending over $20,000 in accessories setting it up for touring and holidays. It was a great car but it was a car. Then in 2013 on my 40th birthday my wife decided we should go into the yard to have a look. We hadn't quite gotten over them and we were conscious of the clock ticking. We signed on for a 9 month delivery. We sold our Hyundai and kept the Dmax. The plan was to keep the Dmax for holidays and in time set the 110 up for touring and eventually sell the Dmax.

Well we picked up the 110 in May 2014. In July we went to Exmouth taking the Dmax. In October we went to Shark Bay again taking the Dmax. Both times we got home looked at the 110 and couldn't wait to get into it. We got home from Shark Bay on the Saturday. On the Monday we had to drop into the Dealers to get something fixed on mine. By Monday afternoon we'd agreed on the price with our son for the Dmax and a 90 was on order.

The end result is that our son is driving the sensible choice and got a good deal on a kitted out 4wd that he would never have been able to afford himself and it only has 35,000km on the clock.

It was sensible but it was also boring compared to the Defender. You either want one or you don't. Don't let sensibility get in the way.

[rar110]

Most people don't have any significant problems with diffs, gearbox or clutch. Others have had a shocker of a run. People who own Defenders are the self help kind who will post looking for a solution. So there will be a lot of posts about problems.

People who own more mainstream vehicles are more likely (not always) to just take to someone to get it fixed rather than post a question. However there are like minded self help Toyota, Nissan, and Mitsubishi 4wd owners out there who do like to find there own solution.

The next Defender will be interesting. I'm hoping it has a similarly large cargo area, D3/4 type independent air suspension, TR, ediff as standard, & auto.

[51mondays]

.... Don't let sensibility get in the way.



my only reasons to be sensible (and i'm not really mad about being sensible) are:


1. financial (although clearly any car is something of a gamble)
2. nearest LR dealer is 1.5hrs drive away, so if I do have warranty issues its a PITA


..I can walk to the Toyota dealer.. but on the subject - does anybody know of a great independent near Castlemaine/Bendigo? I spoke to Brit auto in Romsey and the bloke there was very helpful indeed......still an hour away though


cheers for the feedback and ideas

[YOLO110]

The next Defender will be interesting. I'm hoping it has a similarly large cargo area, D3/4 type independent air suspension, TR, ediff as standard, & auto.

To be truly capable, it should be a manual! :D

[loneranger]

my only reasons to be sensible (and i'm not really mad about being sensible) are:


1. financial (although clearly any car is something of a gamble)
2. nearest LR dealer is 1.5hrs drive away, so if I do have warranty issues its a PITA


..I can walk to the Toyota dealer.. but on the subject - does anybody know of a great independent near Castlemaine/Bendigo? I spoke to Brit auto in Romsey and the bloke there was very helpful indeed......still an hour away though


cheers for the feedback and ideas

We don't quite have that problem where we live but our sensible Dmax broke down on a trip to Shark Bay at Regan's Ford. The car went into limp mode. We continued to Badgingarra to find a mechanic only for him to be out of town. We then continued to Geraldton and took it into the dealers.

We were towing our camper trailer and were stuck doing 40 unless going down hill. It took them about 2 minutes to diagnose the problem (the accelerator unit had failed) and 5 days to get the part. So just because there is a dealer accessible doesn't mean they can get you back on the road in a reasonable amount of time. We were initially advised it would be an overnight part.

On the other hand both of our Defender's have been back to the dealer's for warranty fixes requiring parts to be flown in. We were somewhat surprised on both occasions when they advised the parts would be shipped in the next day and it actually happened. Neither part was a show stopper aircon hose (I think) and a new fan for the aircon.

[LouisW]

Last night at the corner of Barenjoey and Bardo Rd in Newport NSW in 10 min 3 x defenders drove past. I was ****ed off because I have been driving a dealer loan defender for 3 days and could not wave at any one because all I saw was + $150k SUV's. Then a BMW X 5. 5.0d. Stopped at the traffics lights - cut out and the tail gate opened. The ownered was obviously on the phone to bmw road side assist.... Feeling stupid in the middle lane with a open tail gate.

I am 48 years old and as a child I remember cars on the side off road with bonets open or flat Tyers. This does not happen today albeit I dont understand it, car technology and reliability today is outstanding. tyres don't get punctures, this why we have space savers and run flat. If you want 110% reliabilty buy an Hyhundia. - can you imaging you grandad saying this??

Relax!!! - buy a defender or a landy :)........and if it breaks fix it ......and if you after 0% risk catch a bus, walk or hire a Hyhundia :)

[Tombie]

my only reasons to be sensible (and i'm not really mad about being sensible) are:


1. financial (although clearly any car is something of a gamble)
2. nearest LR dealer is 1.5hrs drive away, so if I do have warranty issues its a PITA


..I can walk to the Toyota dealer.. but on the subject - does anybody know of a great independent near Castlemaine/Bendigo? I spoke to Brit auto in Romsey and the bloke there was very helpful indeed......still an hour away though


cheers for the feedback and ideas


My closest decent dealer is 4 hours away (390km).

However, I drive 12 hours each way when possible (I drive 1200km to Melbourne from Whyalla, SA) as the service there is *that* good...

Local Toyota dealer is 5 min walk, and we have to take the fleet vehicles to that useless mob - which mess up simple tasks, never have spare parts (often 8-10 WEEK delivery - no I'm not joking) and generally have no idea wtf they are doing.

Remember, these things need less services than a Toyota, so that 1 hour is hardly a problem! Plus you'll enjoy driving it so won't care!!!!!!

[EastFreo]

As a recent ex Prado driver all I can say is factor in the injectors. I got more than most with 93000km. First dealer quote as I was over $7000! Ended up paying $3000 after many ring arounds.

Also just the other day I was getting a bit of stick at work from a Toyota supporter who then amusingly told me how his then very new Toyota had a massive rollover from what I think he said was a steering rod failure some years back. It ended up being s recall. Not that it mattered - he had a write off.

At the end of the day all brands have issues. Fingers crossed we all get the good ones in the batch.

[Pickles2]

My closest decent dealer is 4 hours away (390km).

However, I drive 12 hours each way when possible (I drive 1200km to Melbourne from Whyalla, SA) as the service there is *that* good...

Local Toyota dealer is 5 min walk, and we have to take the fleet vehicles to that useless mob - which mess up simple tasks, never have spare parts (often 8-10 WEEK delivery - no I'm not joking) and generally have no idea wtf they are doing.

Remember, these things need less services than a Toyota, so that 1 hour is hardly a problem! Plus you'll enjoy driving it so won't care!!!!!!
Jeeez, that is some recommendation, from a person that obviously knows his Landrovers......which Dealer has earned that respect?
Pickles.

[PAT303]

As a recent ex Prado driver all I can say is factor in the injectors. I got more than most with 93000km. First dealer quote as I was over $7000! Ended up paying $3000 after many ring arounds.

Also just the other day I was getting a bit of stick at work from a Toyota supporter who then amusingly told me how his then very new Toyota had a massive rollover from what I think he said was a steering rod failure some years back. It ended up being s recall. Not that it mattered - he had a write off.

At the end of the day all brands have issues. Fingers crossed we all get the good ones in the batch.

It's the link from the drop arm on the steering box,they have been failing for years and I know about 2 deaths from it happening,Toyota won't fix it because it's cheaper to pay compensation than pay for a fix. Pat

[MrLandy]

I got my defender in sept 2014, without a test drive, I blame this forum, took it for a 5000 km spin to Birdsville etc over two weeks, parked it up and I went back to PNG. Got to home airport and hopped in the near new Hilux, my immediate reaction was, what's wrong with this POS. Nothing , but it's not the Defender ! Btw back in the Deefer on Sunday :)

Hey AndyG, are you back in your Defender? ...can you regail us with some more hilux comparisons? It's great to be reminded first hand of the difference :-)

I drove an Amarok for a while, it just felt flimsy. One of the biggest differences was the poor visibility all around compared to Defender, not to mention the slouching seating position, constant shuddering from the horse and cart rear springs and the lack of 'feel' / confidence both off road and on the highway in comparison... How is 'car-like' ever a good selling point for what is promoted as a serious 4WD? It beats me why there is such devotion, particularly to hilux, all over the country when the short comings are so clear...

[AndyG]

Just did another 5,000 km down to Melbourne and back, clicked over 10,000 km now, going great, nil issues. Went up a track easy as, the Hilux would have run away and hid, or at least bottomed out seriously.

Tommy's Rock lookout off the Old Grafton Road, a truly beautiful part of the world.

And of course, in the Defender, the rear does not want to pass the front of the car on fast dirt corrugations, unlike the Hilux, that likes ot lead with the back foot

[AndyG]

HHow is 'car-like' ever a good selling point for what is promoted as a serious 4WD? It beats me why there is such devotion, particularly to hilux, all over the country when the short comings are so clear...

What i cant get over is the number of 4WD journos who consider it acceptable that you need a 2" lift at least for your Jap market leader 4WD before it is usable off road. And in fact recommend a lift as par for the course :o

[Loubrey]

What i cant get over is the number of 4WD journos who consider it acceptable that you need a 2" lift at least for your Jap market leader 4WD before it is usable off road. And in fact recommend a lift as par for the course :o

The fact remain that the vast majority of vehicles falls into the class of "4WD capable" Utes or wagons. A Hilux is just a work Ute with a 4WD system that is by design intended to be used occasionally. Use it 24/7 for 60 days solid and a very high percentage of them will fail (been there, done that).

Similarly almost all wagons are mostly road bias with even their 4WD systems designed around DSC and wet road handling, rather than actual offroading.

It has been discussed at length before, but a SWB Wrangler needs at least $15,000 spent on suspension upgrades to match a stock Defender 90, which in itself says a lot.

No wonder mainstream journalism accepts and advocates that most products needs upgrading before you can actually take it offroad.

Cheers,

Lou

[AndyG]

Probably does not hurt their advertising revenue either.:angel:

[EastFreo]

I got my 110 just after AndyG's and have clocked 11,000km with no issues so far. Keeping my fingers crossed!

[loneranger]

Heads up for everyone on the recall Bob has posted in the recalls thread.

I've checked our VIN's and I'm ringing Land Rover tomorrow as I think they need to see both of them. Not sure on when the VIN's start and end in terms of time but I picked mine up in May and Pocket Rockets in November. I believe they start building mine in January 2014 if it helps and the other one is a MY15.

[Loubrey]

Heads up for everyone on the recall Bob has posted in the recalls thread.

I've checked our VIN's and I'm ringing Land Rover tomorrow as I think they need to see both of them. Not sure on when the VIN's start and end in terms of time but I picked mine up in May and Pocket Rockets in November. I believe they start building mine in January 2014 if it helps and the other one is a MY15.

Easy to check and make sure though. Ignoring the preceding numbers, just look at the last 6. If your cars are in the batch of 2400 that falls between 461900 and 464300 (last 6 is the serial number) they need to get their bolts swapped.

The recalls are all early MY15's and the last one 464300 was built on 4 December 2014



Cheers,

Lou

[loneranger]

Easy to check and make sure though. Ignoring the preceding numbers, just look at the last 6. If your cars are in the batch of 2400 that falls between 461900 and 464300 (last 6 is the serial number) they need to get their bolts swapped.

The recalls are all early MY15's and the last one 464300 was built on 4 December 2014

Cheers,

Lou

Thanks Lou,

It makes sense now I was looking at the whole code. I did look up a VIN explanation as I've never needed to understand them before I should have read further. It appears the very early MY15's were outside the range. The 90 starts with 459 for the last 6 digits.

[noyakfat]

Agnes is a MY2014 which I received in April 2014. She has just under 19,000 km on the clock now and not a single issue.

I loooooooooooooooove her :D

[Tom87]

It has been discussed at length before, but a SWB Wrangler needs at least $15,000 spent on suspension upgrades to match a stock Defender 90, which in itself says a lot.

Cheers,

Lou

Dear Lou,

i think your claims of how much has to be spent are slightly exaggerated, specifically for the JK generation. Regardless, neither vehicle is optimal in factory form. Compromises are made on each, plus their core designs are intended for different applications. There is always room for improvement. And i believe the Australian aftermarket industry is just trying its hardest to emulate the success of the American aftermarket. Makes sense, there is a lot of money in it.

Also, the JK has a specially calibrated ESP system which reconfigures depending on whether it is in high range, low range or has diff locks engaged. I think they now have hill decent control, but i have personally never had an issue with low gears and thoughtful use of the stop pedal.

I always tell people to not mistake their Japanese family wagons and work utes with real off road vehicles. Even if those real off road vehicles spend a disproportionate amount of time off the road getting fixed. Fascinating thread, i cant wait to get myself into the cramped seat of a rover. :)

Take care,
Tom.

[Loubrey]

Tom,

You've clearly driven Wranglers before, but be prepared to be amazed by a stock Defender's ability (especially a Puma) compared to any Jeep.

Enough said, welcome to the fold! :D

Cheers,

Lou

[AndyG]

Easy to check and make sure though. Ignoring the preceding numbers, just look at the last 6. If your cars are in the batch of 2400 that falls between 461900 and 464300 (last 6 is the serial number) they need to get their bolts swapped.

The recalls are all early MY15's and the last one 464300 was built on 4 December 2014



Cheers,

Lou

Thanks Lou,
My very early MY15, first day in fact 07/07/14 , is all good 456336, obviously using up old MY14 parts ;) , I can understands a new feature like DSC having a recall, but bolts :confused::(

[Tom87]

Tom,

You've clearly driven Wranglers before, but be prepared to be amazed by a stock Defender's ability (especially a Puma) compared to any Jeep.

Enough said, welcome to the fold! :D

Cheers,

Lou

Not driven, but through my experiences I am willing to state with absolute confidence that the defining difference between them will always come down to the driver. ;)

The long wheelbase boys would never understand. :D Until it comes to some corrugations. :( lol

Thanks for the kind words!

[cafe latte]

Or James Bond ;)

James who? :D

[LoveB]

I've got 74,000KM on my march 2013 110. Only ever been on a truck once for a busted turbo hose

[PAUL200]

I have had my 130 since February 2015 - 6500 km so far and not a single problem! :):):):p

[kogvos]

9 months and 15,000 kms on the 90 and plenty of problems. I've caused every single one of them.

[MrLandy]

Clutch / Driveline whine... Over the past few thousand km's my 2014 Puma Defender (28,000km) has developed what sounds like a clutch / spigot / or thrust bearing driveline whine that is constant and speed variable.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Also the clutch pedal feel is a little rough under load (but fine when stationary).

Any thoughts appreciated

[cafe latte]

I noticed today grease marks on the inside of the front wheel rims. I checked and there were three or 4 stains on both sides. I am not sure but the source seems to be the track rod ends which appear to have grease on them. Odd because they dont have grease nipples so not sure how the grease got there, any thoughts and is this normal?
Cheers
Chris

[ozy013]

I noticed today grease marks on the inside of the front wheel rims. I checked and there were three or 4 stains on both sides. I am not sure but the source seems to be the track rod ends which appear to have grease on them. Odd because they dont have grease nipples so not sure how the grease got there, any thoughts and is this normal?
Cheers
Chris

Are they blobs of grease or just stains? Any photo's Chris? Could be just over grease of front uni's. If they don't wipe off excess at service then it can get thrown around the underneath a fair bit. Possibly swivel seal, but they usually leak around the swivel ball and then if bad throw the one shot grease, and if the inner seal has gone, then diff oil as well, all over the inside of your tyre. Hard to tell without pics.

[cafe latte]

I was at the range when I noticed so I have not looked properly yet, but a quick crawl under and the only grease seems to be the track rod end. I will look again tomorrow, but nothing seemed to have grease apart the track rods, the rest was clean. Odd it was both sides too. After breakfast I will have another look and see what is going on.
Chris

[AndyG]

Highlights were
Warrenty
Rear main seal replaced, my pickup when wrapping tape around exhaust.
While replacing seal they noticed output shaft & flange flogged out so it was all replaced, a 07/7/14 build, so they were still not lubricating up to that point.
And the engine oil,
Castrol Edge Professional C1 @ $217.60 for the service or $74 for 5 liters from Super Cheap. (but A3/B4) not C1
Enough to put you off Dealer Servicing.

[Zero]

Hi

I see there is a lot of discussion about driveline slack which I presume causes the bunny hopping in Defenders ?

My previous Defender 2.4 Puma never experienced this so I was very surprised to see it so prevalent in my 2013 2.2 Puma. It is quite bad at times so should I get this checked ?

I don't believe it is my driving style as I've driven heaps of Land Rovers and other vehicles and have used varying techniques to try to overcome this current problem which only seems to be resolved by pushing in the clutch and letting the car settle.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated ?

Thanks

[DiscoMick]

I find its important to make sure the clutch is fully out before pressing the go pedal.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[cafe latte]

Highlights were
Warrenty
Rear main seal replaced, my pickup when wrapping tape around exhaust.
While replacing seal they noticed output shaft & flange flogged out so it was all replaced, a 07/7/14 build, so they were still not lubricating up to that point.
And the engine oil,
Castrol Edge Professional C1 @ $217.60 for the service or $74 for 5 liters from Super Cheap. (but A3/B4) not C1
Enough to put you off Dealer Servicing.

I need top up oil is the Super cheap oil ok mixed with what is in?
Sorry for off topic
Chris

[Tombie]

Only use the C1 oil. These engines are particular to their oils.

[Beery]

Highlights were
Warrenty
Rear main seal replaced, my pickup when wrapping tape around exhaust.
While replacing seal they noticed output shaft & flange flogged out so it was all replaced, a 07/7/14 build, so they were still not lubricating up to that point.
And the engine oil,
Castrol Edge Professional C1 @ $217.60 for the service or $74 for 5 liters from Super Cheap. (but A3/B4) not C1
Enough to put you off Dealer Servicing.

Yes mine's in for a rear main seal tomorrow. Be interesting to see if they find anything else.

Another thing, for NON-DPF 2.2 puma's I'm told by Castrol and local LR dealeryou actually need the A5 Castrol, not the C1.
Apparently it's an improtant difference.

Cheers
Tom

[Beery]

Here is the little bit at the bottom of the Castrol page that nobody reads...

"Model fitted with Diesel Particulate FIlter (DPF) shown. Models without Diesel Particulate FIlter (DPF), use CASTROL EDGE PROFESSIONAL A5 5W-30"

[cafe latte]

Here is the little bit at the bottom of the Castrol page that nobody reads...

"Model fitted with Diesel Particulate FIlter (DPF) shown. Models without Diesel Particulate FIlter (DPF), use CASTROL EDGE PROFESSIONAL A5 5W-30"

So which one for a new Puma 2.2 and where do I get it?
Chris

[Beery]

So which one for a new Puma 2.2 and where do I get it?
Chris

The A5. Australian Defenders don't have a DPF.

You'll need to track down a Castrol distributor to source it as its a "Trade oil" not a retail oil.

Cheers
Tom

[Tombie]

This is the stuff.
http://www.redpoint.com.au/product/4784-magnatec-prof-a5-5w30-20l-castrol

You get enough for a couple of services [emoji41]

[Marty90]

The A5. Australian Defenders don't have a DPF.

You'll need to track down a Castrol distributor to source it as its a "Trade oil" not a retail oil.

Cheers
Tom

I'm pretty sure we do,don't we?

[Beery]

I'm pretty sure we do,don't we?

DPF? No, we only have a catalytic converter.

A DPF has pressure differential sensors on it. Australian models dont have these.

[AndyG]

We had a rep from one of the major Truck Companies up here, fine tuning a truck we rolled, one of the Computers was a bit confused, after all the repairs.

Anyhow he was saying the latest Euro standards for diesel trucks mean DPF, Cat, Ad Blue and EGR, happy days. :(

Previously he worked at BMW in their M works and was saying the V10 used 10W60 at 50 USD a liter, and quite a lot of it , so we are doing ok.

[cuppabillytea]

This is the stuff.
Magnatec Prof A5 5W30 20L Castrol (http://www.redpoint.com.au/product/4784-magnatec-prof-a5-5w30-20l-castrol)

You get enough for a couple of services [emoji41]
Tombie you're a Legend. I don't know how you do it. Thanks.
Cheers. Billy.

[AndyG]

My LR Dealer used
http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/871D0C81B4DD4E3280257E2F004B9B10/$File/PDS%20CCSA%20Castrol%20EDGE%20Professional%20C1%20 5W-30%20english.pdf

rather than

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/1DE12D7406FB3FB180257C040034447A/$File/BPXE-9CGK9L.pdf

They both appear to be bloody good oils, and i think the Magnatec was previously the official puma oil. What the difference is between the two i really don't know.

[Wolfman_TWP]

For the MY15 Puma (2.2Ltr). Castrol recommended the following oil. I rang my dealer and they couldn't tell me what the oil specs were. (And didn't even ring me back, like they said they would, once they had the info.). I got the 20Litre drum from Castrol via Repco. ($380.00 inc delivery, Approx. Can't find the receipt at this moment.) One hell of an expensive oil. (I needed a 500mil top up, as my dip stick was showing that the oil level was VERY low. But found that it only needed 500 Mil to bring the level back to where is was the day I first checked the level (Also forgot to mention that my Defender has done 14500K's so far. Almost due for first service.) See photo attached.. (It even states that it's recommended by JLR)

Wolf

[cuppabillytea]

Look up. Page 16 third post. Tombie put a link up for the right oil. AND NO Australian Pumas do not have a Diesel Particle Filter. I even got under my car and checked it from start to finish to be sure to be sure.

[Tombie]

Seems Repco continue living up to its acronym :o

[MrLandy]

Yes thanks Tombie. ...the potential problem that AndyG raises is that if his dealer uses a different oil, then any oil changes AndyG does himself, say every 10,000km between dealer 20,000km oil changes, the oils need to match.

I don't recall the oil used by dealer at my last service on my 2014 as being the signature green of the oil Tombie has identified. I'll need to check with my dealer.

[AndyG]

The Edge C1 as opposed to Edge A5, was $210 for the service :(

It seems many of the spec changesmhave an environment focus, and maybe, being cynical, to discourage DIY

[Turtle130]

I use Penrite Enviro+ 5W30. Available at any good auto parts store, not cheap but not $380 a drum either. Australian company and high quality oil. I am yet to, in many years of putting various oils to the test, have a problem with this brand.
If you use the correct grade, LR cannot dictate the brand. Remember LR have a commercial arrangement with Castrol....


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[MrLandy]

Are you sure about that? I thought warranty on engine was void unless exactly the specified oil is used.

[AndyG]

I am not a Chemical Engineer or Lawyer, but i would say as long as you use the same spec, which is more than just grade, you would be safe.

http://www.westernoil.com.au/upload/file/Information%20sheet%20-%20Low%20SAPs.pdf

A very good read, note the unique Ford/Mazda C1 Grade, note the C grades are DPF friendly, which is probably redundant for our Cat converters.

If i was out of warranty i would probably aim for the A5 spec, i would not use the A1 spec 5W 30.

From Defender.Net, a LR Dealer

Hi All,

Firstly I would like to apologise for the delay on the response. I will be temporarily addressing concerns on this forum and should you require any assistance please do not hesitate to PM me directly.

In answer to the questions raised, for the 2015MY 2.2L Defender we recommend the use of Engine Oil that meets the SAE 5W-30 specification, as has been advised we do recommend the use of Castrol.

While Land Rover do recommend Castrol, there are a number of alternative oils that are suitable, the specification recommended is 5W/30 WSS-M2C934/B and below are a few suggestions.

Shell Helix Diesel Ultra AF-L 5W-30 Fully Synthetic Low SAPS Engine Oil (C1 equivalent)
Mobil Super 3000 Formula C1 5W-30
Castrol EDGE Professional C1 5W-30

5W/30 WSS-M2C934/B are the magic spec.

And what's SAPS
Diesel vehicles with diesel particulate filter (DPF) If you have a diesel car fitted with a DPF you must use one of the latest 'low SAPS' (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous, Sulphur) oils. Using 'normal' oil instead of low SAPS can result in blocking of the DPF.

And finally a bit more detail

http://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php

[PAT303]

I use Penrite Enviro+ 5W30. Available at any good auto parts store, not cheap but not $380 a drum either. Australian company and high quality oil. I am yet to, in many years of putting various oils to the test, have a problem with this brand.
If you use the correct grade, LR cannot dictate the brand. Remember LR have a commercial arrangement with Castrol....


Sent from my Nexus 7 using AULRO mobile app

That what I used,$90 for 10ltres. Pat

[Turtle130]

That what I used,$90 for 10ltres. Pat

Bugger, just paid $10 a litre and thought I got it cheap ☺

Sent from my Nexus 7 using AULRO mobile app

[jackdef90]

I use Penrite Enviro+ 5W30. Available at any good auto parts store, not cheap but not $380 a drum either. Australian company and high quality oil. I am yet to, in many years of putting various oils to the test, have a problem with this brand.
If you use the correct grade, LR cannot dictate the brand. Remember LR have a commercial arrangement with Castrol....


Sent from my Nexus 7 using AULRO mobile app


I've got a bottle of this in the back of my 90 as spare.

[kogvos]

I've got a bottle of this in the back of my 90 as spare.
I've got a bottle of this in the back of my 90 as spare:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mlD1if_SUF4/VeDxAMp1CYI/AAAAAAAAFVE/DZV0QNbgrbM/w1440-h1920-p-rw/2015%2B-%2B1

[tact]

Enviro+ is what Penrite recommend for DPF engines. Non DPF can use HPR5 full synthetic.

[AndyG]

Yes thanks Tombie. ...the potential problem that AndyG raises is that if his dealer uses a different oil, then any oil changes AndyG does himself, say every 10,000km between dealer 20,000km oil changes, the oils need to match.

I don't recall the oil used by dealer at my last service on my 2014 as being the signature green of the oil Tombie has identified. I'll need to check with my dealer.

As long as it meets the appropriate spec nominated by LR, you would be right
.Shell Helix Diesel Ultra AF-L 5W-30 Fully Synthetic Low SAPS Engine Oil (C1 equivalent)
Mobil Super 3000 Formula C1 5W-30
Castrol EDGE Professional C1 5W-30

5W/30 WSS-M2C934/B are the magic spec.

[tact]

As long as it meets the appropriate spec nominated by LR, you would be right
.Shell Helix Diesel Ultra AF-L 5W-30 Fully Synthetic Low SAPS Engine Oil (C1 equivalent)
Mobil Super 3000 Formula C1 5W-30
Castrol EDGE Professional C1 5W-30

5W/30 WSS-M2C934/B are the magic spec.

Those are the magic specs - for DPF equipped engines.

LR spec for my 2013 2.2l non-DPF: 5W/30 – WSS–M2C913–B or C.

(I thought the AU spec Defenders didn't have DPF?)

[Wolfman_TWP]

Those are the magic specs - for DPF equipped engines. LR spec for my 2013 2.2l non-DPF: 5W/30 – WSS–M2C913–B or C. (I thought the AU spec Defenders didn't have DPF?)
AU spec Defenders don't have a DPF.

That's why I got the WSS-M2C913-C oil.

I went to the dealers spare parts department to buy some oil. But because they did' know which oil was used in the Defenders. They just told me to contact Castrol, and wouldn't sell me anything else.

Wolf

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[TimNZ]

I went to the dealers spare parts department to buy some oil. But because they did' know which oil was used in the Defenders. They just told me to contact Castrol, and wouldn't sell me anything elser

They what!? How do they service the vehicles then?

[Wolfman_TWP]

They what!? How do they service the vehicles then?
That's what I asked them as well. And just got a blank look. I also said that it would be a good idea for them to go get some oil..

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[cuppabillytea]

Sheesh. Hope that's not my dealer. :eek:

[AndyG]

Those are the magic specs - for DPF equipped engines.

LR spec for my 2013 2.2l non-DPF: 5W/30 ? WSS?M2C913?B or C.

(I thought the AU spec Defenders didn't have DPF?)

Pretty sure my MY15 handbook nominated the *934* oil, but don't have it with me. Not saying it is necessary, just it was nominated. Anyone got an Oz MY15 handbook Handy?

[Wolfman_TWP]

Pretty sure my MY15 handbook nominated the *934* oil, but don't have it with me. Not saying it is necessary, just it was nominated. Anyone got an Oz MY15 handbook Handy?

My manual only states that the engine oil is SAE 5W-30, and that's all. Which was why I contacted Castrol directly. (This info is on page 115 of the Owner's Handbook.)

Wolf

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[AndyG]

Yes your correct, brain snap. I gotta spec and wrote it in the book.:confused:
From what I can see LR uses 1 spec globally, which is why they used C1 on me.
But they also appear to change the spec regularly, so does it apply retrospectively is to earlier Puma motors.?
I also noted the A5 spec would be my preference out of warranty.

[MrLandy]

Yes your correct, brain snap. I gotta spec and wrote it in the book.:confused:
From what I can see LR uses 1 spec globally, which is why they used C1 on me.
But they also appear to change the spec regularly, so does it apply retrospectively is to earlier Puma motors.?
I also noted the A5 spec would be my preference out of warranty.

Are you able to describe the difference between C1 and A5, AndyG, or anyone else?
Magnatec Professional A5 and Edge Professional A5?

[cuppabillytea]

Good question.

[MrLandy]

My manual only states that the engine oil is SAE 5W-30, and that's all. Which was why I contacted Castrol directly. (This info is on page 115 of the Owner's Handbook.)

Wolf

Mine is the same: Just SAE 5W30.
It says LR recommend Castrol separately, but doesn't specify Castrol 5W30.

[AndyG]

Are you able to describe the difference between C1 and A5, AndyG, or anyone else?
Magnatec Professional A5 and Edge Professional A5?

As per that earlier post, from what i can work out the C1-5 oils are DPF friendly/mandatory and possibly more gentle on Catalytic devices. Their other attributes appear very similar to the A range, which are all subtlety different. That's my laymans read, and i guess it's easier for LR to nominate as few oil types as possible for their workshop, be it DPF or Catalytic Converter.

I Thought the Western Oil article above covered it pretty well and had the A's and C's nicely tabulated

Edit
A = Regular SAPS
C = Low SAPS
C1 meets A5 specs
Post #168

[MrLandy]

My manual only states that the engine oil is SAE 5W-30, and that's all. Which was why I contacted Castrol directly. (This info is on page 115 of the Owner's Handbook.)

Wolf

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Here's the Lubricants and Fluids page from my owner's handbook. 2014 Defender. Interesting how many differences there are to yours Wolf.

According to this it appears that any SAE 5W-30 Engine Oil is ok. Everything else is branded 'or equivalent'. Not quite sure what all the fuss is about? Especially if no DPF engines in Australia is correct? The only underlying question to me is, will warranty be affected by home servicing even if lubricants as specified in owner's manual are used?

Interesting also to note: Gearbox to Transfer box extrnsion shaft is lubed with anti seize. Do earlier Puma Defender Owner's Manuals list this?

[AndyG]

Here's the Lubricants and Fluids page from my owner's handbook. 2014 Defender. Interesting how many differences there are to yours Wolf.

According to this it appears that any SAE 5W-30 Engine Oil is ok. Everything else is branded 'or equivalent'. Not quite sure what all the fuss is about? Especially if no DPF engines in Australia is correct? The only underlying question to me is, will warranty be affected by home servicing even if lubricants as specified in owner's manual are used?

Interesting also to note: Gearbox to Transfer box extrnsion shaft is lubed with anti seize. Do earlier Puma Defender Owner's Manuals list this?

Agree, if they only say SAE 5W 30 how can they complain A vs C etc
Pretty sure extension shaft bit is new? But HOW would you lubricate it ?
I would keep any receipts, but i imagine home servicing would not go down well, compared to trained/qualified mechanic

[MrLandy]

Agree, if they only say SAE 5W 30 how can they complain A vs C etc
Pretty sure extension shaft bit is new? But HOW would you lubricate it ?

Extension shaft lube is interesting, because reportedly they weren't coming lubed from factory - contributing to driveline clunk and eventually failure of shaft. If they are lubed now, perhaps shaft will last longer. You'd only re-lube if changing shaft or gearbox / transfer box out.

[DiscoMick]

The LR handbook for my 2009 2.4 Puma says (p. 88): "Use only 5W-30 oil meeting Land Rover specification WSS - M2C913-B."
I bought some Penrite 5W 30 fully synthetic oil which says on the bottle it is OK for both DPF and non-DPF engines and used by VW, Audi, Porsche etc, but it doesn't mention LR and it doesn't state WSS-M2C913-B anywhere on the bottle, so now I'm unsure if I can use it to top up or not.
I just checked and the oil level is on full.



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[AndyG]

The LR handbook for my 2009 2.4 Puma says (p. 88): "Use only 5W-30 oil meeting Land Rover specification WSS - M2C913-B."
I bought some Penrite 5W 30 fully synthetic oil which says on the bottle it is OK for both DPF and non-DPF engines and used by VW, Audi, Porsche etc, but it doesn't mention LR and it doesn't state WSS-M2C913-B anywhere on the bottle, so now I'm unsure if I can use it to top up or not.
I just checked and the oil level is on full.



Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

Going back to post 168, that appears to be A3 vs A1 spec, so exceeded the Ford spec, it all good

[tact]

From the 2.2l TDCi Land Rover workshop manual:

Engine - ID4 2.2L Diesel -
Lubricants, Fluids and Sealers
Item Specification
SAE 5W-30 engine oil (With DPF)5W/30 - WSS-M2C934-B
SAE 5W-30 engine oil (Without DPF)5W/30 - WSS-M2C913-B or C

[n plus one]

Extension shaft lube is interesting, because reportedly they weren't coming lubed from factory - contributing to driveline clunk and eventually failure of shaft. If they are lubed now, perhaps shaft will last longer. You'd only re-lube if changing shaft or gearbox / transfer box out.

FYI the shaft in my 09 was lubed and in perfect nic after 130k (and has now been cleaned and relubed).

There were definitely a number of reports of them not being lubed (and subsequently wearing/stripping) though.

[AndyG]

From the 2.2l TDCi Land Rover workshop manual:

Engine - ID4 2.2L Diesel -
Lubricants, Fluids and Sealers
Item Specification
SAE 5W-30 engine oil (With DPF)5W/30 - WSS-M2C934-B
SAE 5W-30 engine oil (Without DPF)5W/30 - WSS-M2C913-B or C

A bit more infor from:
Ford Oil Specifications - oilspecifications.org (http://www.oilspecifications.org/ford.php)

Ford WSS-M2C913-B
The Ford M2C913-B specification is released in Europe for initial fill engine oils used for lubrication of spark ignition engines using gasoline and for compression ignition engines using diesel fuels. The specification is also used to define engine oils for servicing Ford engines where applicable. The oil shall meet all the requirements of the ILSAC GF-2 and GF-3 specification, the ACEA A1-98 and B1-98 specification and additional Ford requirements.
Ford WSS-M2C913-C
Fully backwards compatible and is strongly recommended for all applications that currently require the specification Ford M2C913-B. The new engine oil provides various benefits to the customer such as improved fuel economy benefits and high robustness to biodiesel fuels.
Ford WSS-M2C913-D
Introduced in 2012, oils meeting this specification are recommended for all Ford diesel engines except Ford Ka TDCi models manufactured before 2009 and Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDi models manufactured between 2000 and 2006. A product meeting this specification is especially recommended for diesel engines where M2C913-B or M2C913-C oils were initially required. An oil meeting this specification must be used in Ford Transit vehicles manufactured from 2012 onward with Duratorq 2.2 engine. Oils meeting this specification can be used with extended oil change intervals and are also suitable to be used in engines running on biodiesel or high sulfur diesel.

So B is now D spec :o

Ford WSS-M2C934-A
Extended drain engine oil for vehicles equipped with diesel particulate filter (DPF).

And what Astral, for whatever reason used in my 2015 Defender

:confused::confused:

End of day all good oils.

[Beery]

I wouldn't worry too much Andy. Just keep all documentation that shows what oil spec they used.

[AndyG]

I let the dealer worry about it, i just get in and drive

[MrLandy]

I let the dealer worry about it, i just get in and drive

With respect Andy, how close do you live to your dealer? Mine's a 1200km round trip.

[bemm52]

With respect Andy, how close do you live to your dealer? Mine's a 1200km round trip.

Wow.........I didnt think Victoria was that big :o
:p:p
Incidently its about 3 hours to my closest dealer

Cheers

[AndyG]

My car lives in BNE, i live in PNG
My holidays are short and busy, so the car is serviced while i am off shore.

I don't particularly agree with the oil the Dealer uses, Edge Professional C1, which is a DPF Oil, but i'm not going to worry about it.

[MrLandy]

My car lives in BNE, i live in PNG
My holidays are short and busy, so the car is serviced while i am off shore.

I don't particularly agree with the oil the Dealer uses, Edge Professional C1, which is a DPF Oil, but i'm not going to worry about it.

Cool. So even when serviced by a dealer they use the 'wrong' oil. I'm sure as long as it's SAE 5W-30 it's totally fine too. Guess that's my point.

Problem / Question is getting to a service agent around every 10,000km, or getting pinged for using different oil from the dealer if one does any oil changes oneself, even if it meets spec.

[tact]

Cool. So even when serviced by a dealer they use the 'wrong' oil. I'm sure as long as it's SAE 5W-30 it's totally fine too. Guess that's my point.

Problem / Question is getting to a service agent around every 10,000km, or getting pinged for using different oil from the dealer if one does any oil changes oneself, even if it meets spec.

The oils that exceed the stated spec (and are backwards compatible) will be fine. Not really "wrong" oils. They just cost more.

[AndyG]

https://www.autobarn.com.au/castrol-edge-titanium-syn-5w30-5l-engine-oil-3374730

Would be more than adequate and is even Castrol, to keep them happy

[tact]

https://www.autobarn.com.au/castrol-edge-titanium-syn-5w30-5l-engine-oil-3374730

Would be more than adequate and is even Castrol, to keep them happy

Probably it's great. However I couldn't see any mention of compliance with the requisite ford standards in the product data sheet. For that product.

[MrLandy]

Probably it's great. However I couldn't see any mention of compliance with the requisite ford standards in the product data sheet. For that product.

...there are none in the Defender Puma owners handbook either, so does it really matter?

How are we as consumers supposed to know, when all the dealers seem to use differing Castrol products and the service manual that comes with the vehicle isn't so specific?

Begs the question, what are the Land Rover standards for Puma engine oils? Who in the general public knows to look up Ford standards! for a Land Rover anyway?

[tact]

...there are none in the Defender Puma owners handbook either, so does it really matter?

How are we as consumers supposed to know, when all the dealers seem to use differing Castrol products and the service manual that comes with the vehicle isn't so specific?

Begs the question, what are the Land Rover standards for Puma engine oils? Who in the general public knows to look up Ford standards! for a Land Rover anyway?

Does the owners manual equip/inform you on topics related to the mechanical maintenance of your vehicle? No. It tells you how to operate it. I don't know why they bother to mention the 5W/30 even....it is only part of the story.

The workshop manual is the publication that equips you with information needed to perform actions like change engine oil. It specifies what I posted several posts back. (ie much more than 5W/30)

You may feel competent to change gearbox or transfer box oils. Easy. Common sense and common knowledge how to do it. You may have done it dozens of times on older defenders. Pull the drain plug. Replace. Fill to the level of the filler bung. (And you will damage your TDCi transfer case with that process!!).

The workshop manual adds info to say DONT fill to the level of the filler bung - fill only a specific number of liters.

Point being: is the owners manual to be taken as the final authority for the task of full specification details? No.

[tact]

Begs the question, what are the Land Rover standards for Puma engine oils? Who in the general public knows to look up Ford standards! for a Land Rover anyway?

The Land Rover specs for all lubricants for the relevant vehicle is published in the Land Rover workshop manual for that vehicle.

My previous post on WSS (ford) specs requirements was cut and pasted from the Land Rover workshop manual for my (non DPF) 2.2l TDCi vehicle.

[MrLandy]

Does the owners manual equip/inform you on topics related to the mechanical maintenance of your vehicle? No. It tells you how to operate it. I don't know why they bother to mention the 5W/30 even....it is only part of the story.

The workshop manual is the publication that equips you with information needed to perform actions like change engine oil. It specifies what I posted several posts back. (ie much more than 5W/30)

You may feel competent to change gearbox or transfer box oils. Easy. Common sense and common knowledge how to do it. You may have done it dozens of times on older defenders. Pull the drain plug. Replace. Fill to the level of the filler bung. (And you will damage your TDCi transfer case with that process!!).

The workshop manual adds info to say DONT fill to the level of the filler bung - fill only a specific number of liters.

Point being: is the owners manual to be taken as the final authority for the task of full specification details? No.

Thanks Tact, interesting, my owners manual gives me all fluid specs and quantities. See attached, especially note at bottom 'check using dipstick or level plugs as applicable'. When I checked my diff and transfer levels they were all right at filler plug level from factory/dealer. ...Does workshop manual explain what catastrophe awaits me?

[MrLandy]

Not sure what my problem is attaching images! (...posted specs page in earlier post)

[tact]

...Does workshop manual explain what catastrophe awaits me?

From the workshop manual for 2.2l TDCi :
"CAUTION: The transfer case oil filler plug must not be used as a transfer case oil level plug. Failure to follow this instruction may result in damage to the vehicle."

Other threads speculate the reason being the transfer case is tilted a bit on TDCi's and so filling to level of filler bung would over fill. Overfill can mean seals blown. (Not my wisdom... Not that clever am I)

[MrLandy]

From the workshop manual for 2.2l TDCi :
"CAUTION: The transfer case oil filler plug must not be used as a transfer case oil level plug. Failure to follow this instruction may result in damage to the vehicle."

Other threads speculate the reason being the transfer case is tilted a bit on TDCi's and so filling to level of filler bung would over fill. Overfill can mean seals blown. (Not my wisdom... Not that clever am I)

...so now I need to drive 1200km found trip and pay dealer $150hr + for a service and tell them which oil to use and how to fill my transfer case? But if I do it myself, following directions in my owners manual like I have for years with my TDI, with zero problems, I'll void my warranty?

[Tombie]

...so now I need to drive 1200km found trip and pay dealer $150hr + for a service and tell them which oil to use and how to fill my transfer case? But if I do it myself, following directions in my owners manual like I have for years with my TDI, with zero problems, I'll void my warranty?


Are you a certified mechanic?

There will be your answer...

[MrLandy]

No I'm not brother, like many AULRO members. ...I do always prefer a specialist Indi for any major work. But I reckon I can manage an oil change, after all these years 😴. ...my concern is the endless conflicting information about something so straightforward!

[Tombie]

There is no conflicting information.

You get the workshop manual - read the spec required - and do the work.

However it is not unreasonable for a manufacturer of any device/machine to expect a certified competent person to perform work on the product they produced whilst under warranty.

I can troubleshoot logic boards - but under warranty that equipment goes to the manufacturer for service.

I can wire a house/workshop (and I did) but it still had to have a qualified sparky inspect, connect to mains and then sign a CoC to make it official and in that case; legal.

It's like disconnecting the battery on a TDCI. A different procedure compared to your TDi...
And if you get it wrong you can disable the vehicle.

If you had serviced your TDI on your own, and used the wrong oil/wrong parts/wrong procedure - when it was new - you would/could void your warranty also.

I'm still not understanding your real issue here.
Use the oil in the Ford Spec.
Fill the TC as per the workshop manual.
No problem..

But it still will not count as an official service unless a certified mechanic performs it.

[dj2024]

What's the correct battery disconnect/connect procedure for the TDCi? When I added my winch I just:


1) disconnected positive then disconnected negative
2) connected negative and connected positive when it was all done.


Same procedure for every car I've ever owned. I wasn't aware of possibly disabling it by disconnecting a battery.

[MrLandy]

There is no conflicting information.

You get the workshop manual - read the spec required - and do the work.

However it is not unreasonable for a manufacturer of any device/machine to expect a certified competent person to perform work on the product they produced whilst under warranty.

I can troubleshoot logic boards - but under warranty that equipment goes to the manufacturer for service.

I can wire a house/workshop (and I did) but it still had to have a qualified sparky inspect, connect to mains and then sign a CoC to make it official and in that case; legal.

It's like disconnecting the battery on a TDCI. A different procedure compared to your TDi...
And if you get it wrong you can disable the vehicle.

If you had serviced your TDI on your own, and used the wrong oil/wrong parts/wrong procedure - when it was new - you would/could void your warranty also.

I'm still not understanding your real issue here.
Use the oil in the Ford Spec.
Fill the TC as per the workshop manual.
No problem..

But it still will not count as an official service unless a certified mechanic performs it.

...oh, like in your exceedingly friendly and helpful post here?

"Read your manual - Its a paper book thing that came with the car ;-)"
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/157996-puma-battery-disconnecting.html

So ...I should follow my owners manual? ...Or I shouldn't?

Best wishes Tombie

[jackdef90]

What's the correct battery disconnect/connect procedure for the TDCi? When I added my winch I just:


1) disconnected positive then disconnected negative
2) connected negative and connected positive when it was all done.


Same procedure for every car I've ever owned. I wasn't aware of possibly disabling it by disconnecting a battery.


It's exactly the reverse of what you did haha

[tact]

No I'm not brother, like many AULRO members. ...I do always prefer a specialist Indi for any major work. But I reckon I can manage an oil change, after all these years ��. ...my concern is the endless conflicting information about something so straightforward!

Endless conflicting information in a FORUM....!? Hell no! You're kidding me!

A couple of clear bits (just saw Tombie's post) of comment on a single source for the correct information, also found in a forum! Yeah that's the good oil. Happens all the time.

[DiscoMick]

What's the correct battery disconnect/connect procedure for the TDCi? When I added my winch I just:


1) disconnected positive then disconnected negative
2) connected negative and connected positive when it was all done.


Same procedure for every car I've ever owned. I wasn't aware of possibly disabling it by disconnecting a battery.

Disconnect negative first. Connect negative last. Breaking the circuit.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[dj2024]

Well, seems like I dodged a potential bullet. Besides having to re-set my radio stations (obviously), everything was exactly the same before and after. Except that the winch now has power. Live and learn.

[jackdef90]

you always disconect negative first so it doesn't spark when you remove the positive, and when reconnecting you put the positive on first and then the negative for the same reason.
Honestly though I've screwed around with my batteries heaps even dropped spanners across the terminals and never had a problem starting it after.

[Marty90]

What's the correct battery disconnect/connect procedure for the TDCi? When I added my winch I just:


1) disconnected positive then disconnected negative
2) connected negative and connected positive when it was all done.


Same procedure for every car I've ever owned. I wasn't aware of possibly disabling it by disconnecting a battery.

Disconnect neg first and connect last

[Tombie]

You're also supposed to wait for the light on the dash, this signals that the ECUs have shut down correctly.

[Tombie]

...oh, like in your exceedingly friendly and helpful post here?



"Read your manual - Its a paper book thing that came with the car ;-)"

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/157996-puma-battery-disconnecting.html



So ...I should follow my owners manual? ...Or I shouldn't?



Best wishes Tombie


When all else fails...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ysFrt3V7nvI

[tailslide]

Well this is very encouraging, looking at this thread, there are no real issues being report for the Puma 2.2. Me being a poor Disco 2 V8 owner that is currently replacing the head gaskets, again...


Looking over the fence at 2.2 Defenders...


Cheers
Ron

[tact]

Well this is very encouraging, looking at this thread, there are no real issues being report for the Puma 2.2. Me being a poor Disco 2 V8 owner that is currently replacing the head gaskets, again...


Looking over the fence at 2.2 Defenders...


Cheers
Ron

Definitely the 2.2l TDCi is a keeper. You just have to realize that though it looks like all its predessors to a greater or lesser degree. It's a much more modern vehicle. Even those "no brainer" simple procedures like oil or battery changes need a pre-read of the manual.

[tact]

....the correct manual

Owners manual for operating the vehicle
Workshop manual for - working on it.

[Tombie]

....the correct manual



Owners manual for operating the vehicle

Workshop manual for - working on it.


Quite simple really [emoji41]

And if you want warranty servicing use a qualified mechanic and make sure he understands the modern requirements.

If you don't - then service it yourself. Using the correct fluids and the correct procedures.

Too easy...

"Ting a ling a loo" ;)

[Marty90]

My only gripe is the key.Why do I have a full size key with a separate fob for central locking? Is there a reason LR don't supply Defenders with a nice fold-up all-in-one key like the Discos? Are they available.I've seen them in the UK,at TMD, all in one,but not folding.Is it just me?:wallbash:

[jackdef90]

i reckon it's so you can remove the button thingy and leave it in the car , that way you can get the key wet.
You can buy the key and button as 1 unit, I've seen it when I was web trawling the other day

[tact]

My only gripe is the key.Why do I have a full size key with a separate fob for central locking? Is there a reason LR don't supply Defenders with a nice fold-up all-in-one key like the Discos? Are they available.I've seen them in the UK,at TMD, all in one,but not folding.Is it just me?:wallbash:

On pages 6&7 of my Owners Handbook is described the process to use your EKA code (you know your EKA code, right?) to gain access to the vehicle and deactivate the immobilizer manually if ever needed:
"Step1. Remove the remote control from the key ring and keep it well away from the starter switch. "

Hard to do with an all in one unit.

[tact]

(There it is...!:angel: The pleasing sound of yet another gripe exposed for the cool feature it is - soaring over my head)

[cafe latte]

On pages 6&7 of my Owners Handbook is described the process to use your EKA code (you know your EKA code, right?) to gain access to the vehicle and deactivate the immobizer if ever needed:
"Step1. Remove the remote control from the key ring and keep it well away from the starter switch. "

Hard to do with an all in one unit.

You need your EKA code which they dont give you. I have been in touch with Land Rover and I am hoping I can get mine but apparently now to get the code is a nightmare. Why is it not supplied when you get the car, the instructions to use the code are in the manual!!? It is your car you really should be supplied with all the info to start the darn thing when you need to. I was down in Brisbane and took my keys out my pocket 1,700 odd km from home and there was only my key not my fob :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: I honestly think my heart missed a beat. I retraced my steps and found my fob so all was good, but I need my EKA code.

Chris

[tact]

By way of over communicating because I am sure the choir has read the song sheet....(I.e. Have R(ead)TFM ) and enjoy being preached at:

The key fob, PLIP, remote control bit, serves two purposes.
1. Locks and unlocks the door (arming & disarming immobilizer and alarm as well) as you may have worked out already.

2. It keeps the immobilizer out of play when the key is in the ignition. It has a separate passive radio freq transmit and receive board which is powered inductively by a coil that is in place around the ignition switch. When the PLIP and ignition switch are in close proximity it does its job.

See how far you get if you take it off the key ring and toss it on the back seat.

[tact]

You need your EKA code which they dont give you. I have been in touch with Land Rover and I am hoping I can get mine but apparently now to get the code is a nightmare. Why is it not supplied when you get the car, the instructions to use the code are in the manual!!? It is your car you really should be supplied with all the info to start the darn thing when you need to. I was down in Brisbane and took my keys out my pocket 1,700 odd km from home and there was only my key not my fob :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: I honestly think my heart missed a beat. I retraced my steps and found my fob so all was good, but I need my EKA code.

Chris

I am on chapter 23 of my quest to get my EKA. Most recent action (last week) was to get the 10AS (security module) serial number physically off the unit - send to LR UK and they will refer to Lucas to get the EKA and pass to me. Might take another week or so...

[cuppabillytea]

Perhaps we should start a Group Action, to force them to supply us what is legally ours. I remember asking for the code at my vehicles initial service. I was told "Oh you don't need that." Well clearly I do. If I remember correctly, The Dealer was meant to supply it when he handed over the keys.

[cafe latte]

We need to make a stink if we cant get the code easily. Recently in Belmont at a shooting comp with 400 shooters on a very very busy range I took my keys out my pocket and my key was there but not the fob :eek::eek::eek::eek:. My heart missed a beat.. I retraced my steps and after maybe half an hour of terror I found my fob. The code is mine, I paid 57,000 dollars for my Defender I want the code to start it if I loose my fob, also what happens if the fob dies?
Chris

[cuppabillytea]

Off Topic: By the way how did you go in the shooting competition Chris?

[cafe latte]

Off Topic: By the way how did you go in the shooting competition Chris?

The team came second by a few points a jammed rifle cost us the win very annoying, but the team that came third was miles behind and forth was miles behind again. The team that won had 4 out of 5 members of the winning world championship team on it shooting on their home range so we were happy. They cant all nominate for the worlds this time so we have been told to nominate and only myself and my missus are free to go so I am hopeful to be on the worlds team in 2017, fingers crossed!!
In the individuals against the best I came 8th, not bad out of 40. I had issues with my barrel giving elevation so I could have done better, but 8th out of the best in Aus I can live with :D
I am mates with the guy who won I told him I will get him next time :D
Chris

[cuppabillytea]

Well I suppose congratulations are in order. Well done. Good luck in the Worlds.
Cheers, Billy.

[justinc]

Great stuff!! All the best for the worlds!.

[cafe latte]

Thanks guys :D,
I am not in the worlds team yet though, but I do have a very good chance, fingers crossed.
Chris

[sbeckmann]

in 2 years of ownership our 110 has had the following done under warranty.
1 - transfer case
2 - output shaft
3 - intercooler hose
4 - airflow meter
5 - power steer line
6 - power steer box.

and is currently back at landrover because it has gone into limp mode again (sensor, hose? who knows.)

The diff moans backing off from 100. Has done this since new. Apparently landrover reckons they cant hear it? Has done this since new.
I mean i love the car, but i just wished it worked all the time, since the missus drive the kids to school in the thing. Yes we use it offroad, but dont they advertise the fact.

[clive22]

I'm in the same boat, like the truck but the following faults


split radiator
adapter shaft
split oil cooler (did a heap of damage - every cooling ancillary was replaced)
split turbo hose
excessive back lash


The radiator and split oil cooler occurred post warranty, LR can to the party with parts on the oil cooler I paid for labor (still $1500) I paid for a new radiator.

While the truck is MY12 ~ 3.5 years old, it's only done 55000 kms, and has been babied and serviced every 6 months.

I fixed the backlash with new drive shafts from ashcroft - can't landrover make a driveshaft after all these years?

Landrover have been OK I guess, but really not good enough - are the upmarket models the same?

Clive

[scarry]

I'm in the same boat, like the truck but the following faults


split radiator
adapter shaft
split oil cooler (did a heap of damage - every cooling ancillary was replaced)
split turbo hose
excessive back lash


The radiator and split oil cooler occurred post warranty, LR can to the party with parts on the oil cooler I paid for labor (still $1500) I paid for a new radiator.

While the truck is MY12 ~ 3.5 years old, it's only done 55000 kms, and has been babied and serviced every 6 months.

I fixed the backlash with new drive shafts from ashcroft - can't landrover make a driveshaft after all these years?

Landrover have been OK I guess, but really not good enough - are the upmarket models the same?

Clive

If they were,the company would have been on the scrap heap years ago.

The numerous problems with the later model Deefers is a real shame for many reasons:mad:

[sbeckmann]

Last problem was another intake hose. Driving home the light come home again and went into limp mode.
I am getting sick of this lemon.

[Longtimer]

And I thought "I" was having a fun time with mine.....



Power stearing unit started peeing oil - replaced after second inspection 10K km.
Fuel leak from tank - breather line split
Weeping oil from rear main - Supposedly it's "spilt" oil.... Still weaping.....
Front diff leaking oil at centre - tightened up
Air con playing up - nothing wrong supposedly
Rear door lock mechanism died - replaced on second visit for the problem
Drivers front spring sagged - replaced front pair minimum but for some reason I thought they did the whole set
Air con still playing up - can't identify the problem
Rear door not being able to be opened - fixed - only lasted a week
Rear door not being able to be opened - fixed again.....
Fuel leak from top of tank - supposedly it was the breather gasket and the vent hose arrangement to was supposedly superceeded
Front diff oil now dark.... :(
Air con No longer working - have to ring up and get it looked at.



It will be 2 years old in mid July, and I have only done 63K in it.

Barbagello's is quite good with the warranty work in some ways. They understand that as a single parent, I can't normally get it in there and work on the same day, so they pick it up from my place of work.
But then legally, I believe we are entitled to claim costs and lost wages etc.


If it didn't make me smile every time I got in it and go great off-road..... I would probably flog it off. And most of my warranty work is little stuff.....


Phill.

[YOLO110]

Landrover have been OK I guess, but really not good enough - are the upmarket models the same?

Clive

My missus has had 2 leased RR Evoque's in the last 4 years... first one swapped for the later one after 90k on it... the second one is now on 30k km's

NO problems whatsoever! Not a single issue.

Just services...

Great cars, not too bad on 'soft off road', quiet comfortable and the with current prices of Defenders, great value too! ;)

[ozscott]

Yolo I had no problems at all with my d2 at 90k...not one. No vehicle should although i had a commodore that didn't play ball. I had a Honda Euro current shape 190k...all short runs. Not one issue. If a vehicle still has zero issues above 180k i am impressed. My d2 made it to 160000 and needed an alternator then.

Cheers

[ProjectDirector]

If you look at reliabilityindex.com you will see where the defender sits amongst other vehicles, you guessed it, bottom of the list together with Jeep. So, according to that there is 50% chance the defender will fail at any given time. I have the defender for 3 years since new and have to say it is not as reliable as my other vehicles, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Toyota and VW.
I am keep in it because I like it.[emoji3]

[cuppabillytea]

Mine has failed three times all Charged Air System. These problems can and will be fixed with Mods when I get my arse into gear. :angel:

[1nando]

If you look at reliabilityindex.com you will see where the defender sits amongst other vehicles, you guessed it, bottom of the list together with Jeep. So, according to that there is 50% chance the defender will fail at any given time. I have the defender for 3 years since new and have to say it is not as reliable as my other vehicles, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Toyota and VW.
I am keep in it because I like it.[emoji3]

Mate i dont know how accuarte that reliability undex is. Ive just checked the hilux and land cruiser and they are just as bad as the defender according to that site. I dare say that site is either biased to particular brands or just plain bs...

[ProjectDirector]

Mate i dont know how accuarte that reliability undex is. Ive just checked the hilux and land cruiser and they are just as bad as the defender according to that site. I dare say that site is either biased to particular brands or just plain bs...



Well I am a bit sceptical about it too but having my intercooler go after 30000km I wasn't happy. The steering box before 5000k and rear axles at 20000km. So, it does line up with what they are rating the defender even though the survey was for 2007-2010.
Don't get me wrong I enjoy my defender and it is a keeper even though after the intercooler went I was about to sell it but took a few deep breaths and settled down.