What dis I do today? the damn intercooler.

[PhilipA]

OK , today I knew it was all going to take a LOT of time.
First I degreased the engine several times so that I can fix the FPR. Its damn difficult to clean because of all the cables and obstacles.
Next I cleaned the intrercooler on my EU3 auto..
What a epic.
Whoever designed the mounts should be shot.
This is something that is supposed to be done every 100K!
The first obstacle is the pesky little self tappers that hold the headlight garnishes on. Who thought of that? Having to have a screwdriver exactly the correct length to loosen something you cannot see.
The amount of disassembly to clean the intercooler is ridiculous. The hardest bit I found was removing the intercooler because the radiator has indents for the intercooler hose stubs. When people say push the radiator back they mean REALLY back. I don't see how it could be done with the fan in place.
I had about half an hour of swearing because the indent on the RH side of the radiator is not high enough to have the intercooler location peg slip over the radiator mount plate. I ended up cutting about 6 MM off the peg as there is no need for it to be as long., as the intercooler is held against the radiator by 2 bolts which stop any upward movement. Then it slipped in easily.
So my first tip is to cut a bit off the locating peg.
I flushed the intercooler with turps , then a medium degreasing mixture , then rinsed with clean water twice. I let it drain then ran the vacuum cleaner through it for 10 minutes or so. Really there wasn't much oil in it at 137 KK, though there was some around the exit.

I think I may take off the inlet manifold to do the FPR as it needs cleaning anyway and there would be MUCH better access with the manifold off. I have a EGR delete kit coming from Czeck Republic of all places.

Yesterday I ran a 4 G main power line from the front to the rear of the car, installed junctions , and installed Merit plugs on the LH side for the fridge and on both bumper corners for my camper trailer.

Regards Philip A

[bob10]

OK , today I knew it was all going to take a LOT of time.
First I degreased the engine several times so that I can fix the FPR. Its damn difficult to clean because of all the cables and obstacles.
Next I cleaned the intrercooler on my EU3 auto..
What a epic.
Whoever designed the mounts should be shot.
This is something that is supposed to be done every 100K!
The first obstacle is the pesky little self tappers that hold the headlight garnishes on. Who thought of that? Having to have a screwdriver exactly the correct length to loosen something you cannot see.
The amount of disassembly to clean the intercooler is ridiculous. The hardest bit I found was removing the intercooler because the radiator has indents for the intercooler hose stubs. When people say push the radiator back they mean REALLY back. I don't see how it could be done with the fan in place.
I had about half an hour of swearing because the indent on the RH side of the radiator is not high enough to have the intercooler location peg slip over the radiator mount plate. I ended up cutting about 6 MM off the peg as there is no need for it to be as long., as the intercooler is held against the radiator by 2 bolts which stop any upward movement. Then it slipped in easily.
So my first tip is to cut a bit off the locating peg.
I flushed the intercooler with turps , then a medium degreasing mixture , then rinsed with clean water twice. I let it drain then ran the vacuum cleaner through it for 10 minutes or so. Really there wasn't much oil in it at 137 KK, though there was some around the exit.

I think I may take off the inlet manifold to do the FPR as it needs cleaning anyway and there would be MUCH better access with the manifold off. I have a EGR delete kit coming from Czeck Republic of all places.

Yesterday I ran a 4 G main power line from the front to the rear of the car, installed junctions , and installed Merit plugs on the LH side for the fridge and on both bumper corners for my camper trailer.

Regards Philip A
Are you over it yet? Character building, isn't it. Take a deep breath, & carry on, sweetheart. Bob

[John W]

Yep I gave up. A year or so back could not budge it and I was "leaning" on the radiator, will probably be another year or 2 before I may take another look at the job with "cutting lugs" in mind. Nothing wrong with the way the old girl is running so motivation from me is low. But I do ooze empathy for you.

[schuy1]

Congrats I have a cup of sympathies for your efforts :) \_/ Bugger! It is empty :D/ \.
No but really cograts on a 'orrible job :( I have looked at it and found easier stuff to do, Like catch and throw that 3 yr old bull in the top paddock!

[OffTrack]

Are people doing this by the book or following "how-to's"?

[PhilipA]

I read both Rave and how tos and I have to say that if the Howtoer was able to get the damned thing out with the fan in place , he was a better man than I.
I read Rave because I couldn't believe that you had to dismantle half the car to get it out when I had a false start, and started again once I read that that you had to take the horns out , then the brackets from the front after removing the foam, then I found an additional step of removing the condenser brackets.

Then finding that the intercooler pipes are set into recesses in the radiator tank. I was able to wrench the bloody thing out by pushing hard enough on the radiator to kink the top hose, then wrenching the intercooler out from the LH side first.
The sting in tail was that the RH peg on the intercooler was too long to allow the intercooler high enough to slip it into the hole because of the recess in the radiator not being high enough.
Reminds me of UJs."gently tap the trunnion from the yoke" 5lb lump hammer later.
Regards Philip A

[Blknight.aus]

I pulled an intercooler out of a D2 once...

I clean them in place now.

The only way I can see how to do it without removing the fan is to pull the radiator and all its interfering gear.

[Rok_Dr]

Totally random thought.... But has anyone designed a rig to flush them insitu, ie without removingand just undoing the hoses?

[iPom]

I followed Urban Panzer's tutorial from his website.... Still a bar steward of a job though. I have done it twice now so it holds no fears.

[OffTrack]

FWIW the RAVE procedure has been changed from what is on the CD. The main change is that the battery tray removal has been deleted.

[bob10]

Go to this site; www.discovery2.co.uk (http://www.discovery2.co.uk) click on WORKSHOP, then intercooler clean, for a tutorial with photos. Helped me, but I do feel your pain, a cow of a job. Next time I do it, I'm going to make it worthwhile, remove the radiator,clean it, replace the thermostat, and hoses, and the viscous fan bearing, [ a bit noisy] Bob

[OffTrack]

After all this "drama queen" carry on about the intercooler flush I though it was time to bite the bullet and flush the damn thing.

The worst part of the job is that it is time consuming first time through. You don't need to hacksaw anything, you don't need to swear at things, and you definitely don't need a menagerie of pigs, dogs and cows to describe it.

I followed the revised RAVE procedure and the whole thing took about 2.5 pretty leisurely hours. I reckon if you follow the process to the letter you can't go far wrong. It's worth pulling the fan and lower cowling, and lifting the radiator out of the chassis mounts allows you to move the bottom of the radiator forward and gives a pretty decent amount of room to work in.

The intercooler came out with a little bit of manoeuvring and went in the same way. The drivers side locating peg is a fairly tight squeeze when you try to realign with the cutout in the radiator but only need a gentle push to get everything lined up.

I used a litre of shellite to flush (it did a wash and a rinse) and it seem to work reasonably well - there wasn't much in the way of gunk, and the rinse only had a faint taint.

Anyway job done and I have 80,000km to wait before I need to do it again.

I also picked up a damp swage on the Auto cooler line while I was doing the job - I'm always suspicious that disturbing the radiator triggers follow up hose replacements. Anyway if moving the radiator was enough to tigger a leak it was on it's way out so better to do now than on a roadside in the middle of whoop-whoop.

cheers
Paul

[bob10]

After all this "drama queen" carry on about the intercooler flush I though it was time to bite the bullet and flush the damn thing.

Paul

Good for you, just another job, sport, all you need is time, Bob

[northiam]

Why would one attempt to remove intercooler without first removing the fan:confused:
I had a wet fitting on the trans cooler quick couple connection, I found I could push the fitting on about 5mm more thus solving the leak!
Regards

[OffTrack]

Why would one attempt to remove intercooler without first removing the fan:confused:
I had a wet fitting on the trans cooler quick couple connection, I found I could push the fitting on about 5mm more thus solving the leak!
Regards

Because people read Urban Panzer's site and follow his how-to's rather than reading RAVE:


The official workshop manual tells you to remove the viscous fan to get the intercooler out, how ever I have recently done this job without disturbing the viscous fan.

I'll have to double check on the connection. I had left the intercooler hose in place and I noticed it dripped a few times. I've got my fingers crossed that it just happened to drip on the swaged joint. I'll wash the engine bay and keep an eye on it over then few days.

cheers
Paul

[greg smith]

I pulled an intercooler out of a D2 once...

I clean them in place now.

The only way I can see how to do it without removing the fan is to pull the radiator and all its interfering gear.

Clean them in place----great mate but how???:D

[OffTrack]

Clean them in place----great mate but how???:D

I suspect for most people it will be simpler and quicker to remove the intercooler:


you can clean it in situ, and I have twice.

fit extension tubes to the intercooler hoses so they stick up nice and high,

fill it with diesel or the gentle solvent of your choice and let it sit.

drain

fill with hot soapy water and then using a cooling system flush gun blow air through it

rinse with hot water and blow the air through again till it comes out no longer soapy.

if the rinse water comes out dirty repeat the wash again.

once its got clean rinse water coming out plug your wifes hair drier into the thing and let it blow through it for a couple of hours.

done

[gusthedog]

Because people read Urban Panzer's site and follow his how-to's rather than reading RAVE:



I'll have to double check on the connection. I had left the intercooler hose in place and I noticed it dripped a few times. I've got my fingers crossed that it just happened to drip on the swaged joint. I'll wash the engine bay and keep an eye on it over then few days.

cheers
Paul

I followed Urban Panzer's way of doing it, and re-installed a D2a intercooler without removing the fan at all. It was a little bit tight and required some wiggling but went in without damaging anything. The biggest prickle was re-attaching the Davis Performance Landies auto cooler I have - needed the wife to start the small bolts holding it in place coz my hand are too big.

But that's it. Do people find it hard to follow Urban Panzers tutorial? I thought it rocked. I have rave too but found his way much easier.;)

[OffTrack]

The only difference between the current RAVE procedure and UPanzers method is the UP doesn't remove the fan or lower cowl. For the 2-3 minutes extra it takes I can't see the point of not removing to be honest. You have far more room to work with the lower cowl and fan out of the way.

The problem I find with workshop shortcuts in general is more often than not you trade X minutes disassembly and reassembly time for spending X minutes or more messing about due to reduced access.

[schuy1]

The only difference between the current RAVE procedure and UPanzers method is the UP doesn't remove the fan or lower cowl. For the 2-3 minutes extra it takes I can't see the point of not removing to be honest. You have far more room to work with the lower cowl and fan out of the way.

The problem I find with workshop shortcuts in general is more often than not you trade X minutes disassembly and reassembly time for spending X minutes or more messing about due to reduced access.

I will agree with that. While there is some things that you can easily bypass the factory method, mostly the procedure as in manual is the easiest. It may not always be the quickest but is often easisest in the long run. I long ago have given up on the hanging up side down in the engine bay like a bat :o For 1 thing my glasses fall off now!:eek::D
The secret is dont do it until you have the time, nothing worse than trying an engine overhaul be4 brekky!
Cheers Scott

[bob10]

My mistake, sorry, edit out reply. Bob

[OffTrack]

The reason RAVE works well is that it is written by people who knew how the vehicle went together in the factory. The procedures tend to be "disassembly is the reverse of assembly" so things generally come apart pretty easily, even if it seems a bit like a babushka doll at times.

It's also worth noting that the version of the workshop manual RAVE most people have on CD is not the most up to date version. The final CD was released in 2002, after which point the manual was only available by online subscription. The version on the RAVE CD is revision 6 from 2002 while the online version (available on Topix but not as a PDF download) is revision 9 published in 2005. Most of the content is the same but there are a number of revised procedures like the intercooler remove/refit.

The official time allowance for an intercooler remove refit is 1 hour. I guess after a few times with all the tools at hand it would be reasonably doable.

cheers
Paul

[bob10]

[QUOTE=OffTrack;1908422]Because people read Urban Panzer's site and follow his how-to's rather than reading RAVE:

/QUOTE]

I've finger trouble today. But here is what I think [ thru edit] We have three choices, RAVE, THE GOOD OIL , & other sources such as UP. Personally, I study all 3, & the Haines manual, then make my mind up to which way I approach the job. Worked so far. Bob

[OffTrack]

Because people read Urban Panzer's site and follow his how-to's rather than reading RAVE:



I've finger trouble today. But here is what I think [ thru edit] We have three choices, RAVE, THE GOOD OIL , & other sources such as UP. Personally, I study all 3, & the Haines manual, then make my mind up to which way I approach the job. Worked so far. Bob

My comment that both Gus the Dog and yourself have quoted is a direct response to a question Northiam posed: "Why would one attempt to remove intercooler without first removing the fan?:confused:"

I do usually check out what UP has done, and the pix and commentary are usually a pretty good indication of what the potential pitfalls are and flesh out the bare bones of RAVE. Same with the forum, although I tend to search rather than use the good oil. I treat RAVE as the reference when I'm actually working on the car, and refer to the other sources if I need to clarify some detail. If something requires LR special tools I'll go to the forum posts for advice on how to work around.

cheers
Paul

[bob10]

[QUOTE=OffTrack;1908979]My comment that both Gus the Dog and yourself have quoted is a direct response to a question Northiam posed: "Why would one attempt to remove intercooler without first removing the fan?:confused:"

I do usually check out what UP has done, and the pix and commentary are usually a pretty good indication of what the potential pitfalls are and flesh out the bare bones of RAVE. Same with the forum, although I tend to search rather than use the good oil. QUOTE]

Good point, Paul, sometimes we Land Rover nuts jump in feet first, but you could blame passion for that. However, search rather than use the GOOD OIL? Sacrilege! Give yourself an uppercut :D Bob

[PhilipA]

My original post was to highlight the poor design and access of the intercooler and its mounting system.

There are many things that could have been done to make it easier.

Eg the captive nuts on the brackets should be reversed so that you don't have to take out the horns and foam.
I am sure there are better ways to mount the thing.

I was talking a couple of days ago to a bloke with a Toyota 200 V8 diesel. Cleaning the intercooler is a 10 minute job. admittedly it is on top of the engine but there are many examples in Japanese cars of simple easily servicable design eg Vbelts on the aircon of Prado 120.

It seems to me that the current system is designed to facilitate assembly of the car by inserting the intercooler already assembled with the radiator and damn the consequences for servicing.

I have had my little dummy spit now. I feel better.
Stupid design just annoys me.

Regards Philip A

[OffTrack]

[QUOTE=OffTrack;1908979]
However, search rather than use the GOOD OIL? Sacrilege! Give yourself an uppercut :D Bob

I know, I know, and what's worse I'm supposed to be a mod for The Good Oil section. :angel:

[gusthedog]

My comment that both Gus the Dog and yourself have quoted is a direct response to a question Northiam posed: "Why would one attempt to remove intercooler without first removing the fan?:confused:"



Well that's an easy one to answer - I don't have a viscous fan tool :p

[OffTrack]

Well that's an easy one to answer - I don't have a viscous fan tool :p

Ok, so you obviously enjoy doing the hard way. I'm sure there is a word that describes that trait... :p

I bought a set of these soon after I got the D2:
http://www.difflock.com/buyersguide/newproducts/TD5V8-wrench-set/TD5wrenches.jpg
DIFFLOCK - TD5 & V8 Viscous Fan Wrench Set (http://www.difflock.com/buyersguide/newproducts/TD5V8-wrench-set/)
I've never had cause to regret spending the money on these rather than the generic spanners on eBay.

[gusthedog]

Ok, so you obviously enjoy doing the hard way. I'm sure there is a word that describes that trait... :p


Yep there is - poor :D Actually it's not that hard at all with the fan in place. As I said in another thread, the captive nuts on the auto cooler were the real problem for me. I'm used to working on motorcycles though so you get used to working within tight areas on them.

[bob10]

Well that's an easy one to answer - I don't have a viscous fan tool :p

Mate, I ground down a 1 1/4 AF ring/ open ended spanner [ open end, of course] , a good solid one, with a bit of length in it. Used it successfully for a while, then after ordering some stuff from Paddocks, decided to buy the LR spanner, I've gone back to the big spanner, works much better, IMO, I just put a 10 mm ringy on the small bolts to hold it , a gentle tap and it's off. Bob

[OffTrack]

Mate, I ground down a 1 1/4 AF ring/ open ended spanner [ open end, of course] , a good solid one, with a bit of length in it. Used it successfully for a while, then after ordering some stuff from Paddocks, decided to buy the LR spanner, I've gone back to the big spanner, works much better, IMO, I just put a 10 mm ringy on the small bolts to hold it , a gentle tap and it's off. Bob


I find I don't even need to hold the pulley. The resistance from the belt and a tap with a hammer on the end of the spanner is enough to undo. Same when doing up.

The first time I took the fan off the both holder and the spanner were essential.

[bob10]

I find I don't even need to hold the pulley. The resistance from the belt and a tap with a hammer on the end of the spanner is enough to undo. Same when doing up.

The first time I took the fan off the both holder and the spanner were essential.

UMMMMM, yeah, ok, going somewhere else now, see ya, Bob