Puma Ignition Barrel Lock Dodgy

[29dinosaur]

G'day. My recently purchased 110 2010 Puma Defender has shown the occasional problem with the key not turning in the ignition barrel. With a bit of jiggling, rocking of steering wheel and squirt of graphite dry lube, i have on two occasions managed to have the lock release and be operable. Obviously no one wants to be in the poistion of total lock 'jam'. So what advise can you give? Is it possible just to purchase a barrel and have a locksmith re-key the lock to my current key? I want to avoid costly dealer repair .. is it possible for a 'home' mechanic to get the lock barrel in and out without stuffing things up?

Thanks

[Allan]

No sorry to say it's a trip to the dealer. It has to be re coded. My long lost Puma did this also.

Allan

[29dinosaur]

No sorry to say it's a trip to the dealer. It has to be re coded. My long lost Puma did this also.

Allan

But isn't the code in the fobby thingy?

[Lagerfan]

There's a tech bulletin about this (LTB00414v3)


Defender (LD) Model Year: 2007 Onwards
VIN: 7A732615 Onwards

Situation:
A customer may report a concern that the ignition key will not rotate in the ignition switch or is stiff to operate.

Solution:

1. Install a new ignition switch, part YXB500170

Guess you are out of warranty?

[29dinosaur]

There's a tech bulletin about this (LTB00414v3)



Solution:


Guess you are out of warranty? Yep...

[29dinosaur]

There's a tech bulletin about this (LTB00414v3)



Solution:
1. Install a new ignition switch, part YXB500170

Guess you are out of warranty?

This part number as listed by Rimmer Bros shows it's been rpelaced by LR035359.

If you look up that part number you can get prices from pnd 6-30 form LR Direct.

The part looks like this?
http://www.lrdirect.com/images/T/LR035359.jpg


But aren't I dealing with a mechanical barrel issue??

[Lagerfan]

But aren't I dealing with a mechanical barrel issue??

I dunno! Just quoting the bits from the tech bulletin. Will pm the TB contents.

[BilboBoggles]

The ignition barrel requires a bit of fluffing around to swap, the are two special screws that retain it, you need to cut som slots in the heads to remove. Its not too hard.

You canbuy new lock barrels and keys for not too much, but its better to get it re coded to match the doors, you really don't want to carry two ignition keys.

It could also be the switch mentioned above, that's what failed on my my09. There is an interlock in the electrical switch that stops you engaging the starter motor without switching off first. This breaks and locks up the whole mechanism.

[BilboBoggles]

Oh and get it fixed asap. Cause one day it will strand you, and its a pain in the arse to get a defender on to a tow truck with a locked steering wheel...especially when its blocking the forecourt of a busy service station owned by a land rover hating mechanic....

I'd also go back to your dealer, its a safety issue and a known fault, they should still cover it after warranty. They did on mine.

[Bundalene]

I don't see why a locksmith can't service / fix the barrel, at the end of the day there is no electrics in the barrel - you could use any barrel which fits as long as you put the coil back over the front of it or have it close to the FOB.


Half way down this page of a previous post is a pic of the switch and coil

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/115591-bundalenes-puma-project-18.html





Erich

[laney]

Ihave an 02 Disco had the exact same problem a lock smith in Toowoomba removed the lock repaired it and put it back in under $300 works like a dream seems a ball bearing in the ignition moves as the barrel wears on my Disco no recodeing was needed as the original ignition went back in worth talking to a good lock smith.
Hope this helps

[BlueWagon]

This happened to me this year with a 4 year old MY09 defender 110. Key got worse and worse over a year until one very hot day I had to give up and call roadside assistance. Eventually we got the key to turn and the engine (and aircon) started. The roadside assist mechanic recommended taking it to a locksmith rather than a mechanic ...so thats what I did and I picked up a Puma ignition barrel from the wreckers beforehand. The locksmith told me he could fix a new barrel to work with the old key.
Ended up not needing the barrel but a new switch(white plastic thingy shown in above post) instead. As I was selling the car to a friend and the locksmith couldn't guarantee how long his repair would last ...in the end I preferred to get a new switch from the dealer and got the locksmith to install that as the major cost was in his labor in dismantling the dash and ignition barrel and then reassembling it all.
After all that, the ignition worked fine but the aircon controls didn't because a cable had been kinked...so I ended up taking out most of the front dash myself to fix that. Could've saved myself $300 by doing it myself in the first place!!!

My concern now is that in the last week with the new MY13 (at only 6000K) the key has briefly jammed twice when going to start the car. The old Puma lasted nearly 3 years before the key started sticking. It is well and truly within warranty this time but it looks like this seems to be a definite issue with the Puma Defender (or am I just unlucky)?

Mark

[justinc]

Unlucky?? I'm getting really good at fitting Puma lock barrels and switches now...:mad:

I even have a tame locksmith that will code the original keys for me to the new barrel assemblies.

JC

[29dinosaur]

Unlucky?? I'm getting really good at fitting Puma lock barrels and switches now...:mad:

I even have a tame locksmith that will code the original keys for me to the new barrel assemblies.

JC

Maybe you could write up your techniques and short cuts..... :) I'm being serious....

[justinc]

Maybe you could write up your techniques and short cuts..... :) I'm being serious....

There are no short cuts.....Its familiarity with what to remove and what shaped tools to use that helps me get through this task without stress. It is something that shouldn't happen to so many. I find myself shaking my head each time I get one to do. County and Defender tdi / td5 ones were the same switch basically, Never replaced many of these at all. My County one is original and 27 years old. It would bolt straight into a Puma:o


JC

[Loubrey]

JC,

Would it be worth getting, say a 300Tdi barrel and keys in stead of bothering with a Puma one?

Mine is currently fine, but it would really be worth knowing should it happen in the future.

Cheers,

Lou

[29dinosaur]

There are no short cuts.....Its familiarity with what to remove and what shaped tools to use that helps me get through this task without stress. It is something that shouldn't happen to so many. I find myself shaking my head each time I get one to do. County and Defender tdi / td5 ones were the same switch basically, Never replaced many of these at all. My County one is original and 27 years old. It would bolt straight into a Puma:o


JC

Hi JC

I'm not sure which way to turn?
1. Just change the ignition switch which sits at the base of the barrel assembly
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/705.jpg



or
2. Change whole barrel and switch together.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/706.jpg



Do I need to reprogram anything if just doing switch or barrel switch?

I came across a description of how to do the ignition-key assembly in a disco on another forum. See Here. (http://landroverforums.com/forum/discovery-ii-18/ignition-lock-fix-35422/) My guess it would be similar on a deefa..??

[justinc]

29dinosaur; The switch is a pain to get at on its own, and the barrel will soon fail anyway so replace the whole shooting match. You DO NOT have to reprogram anything etc as long as you don't forget to attach the coil around the barrel at the key end all will be fine :)
That tutorial on removing the old lock and switch assembly is basically correct, it is just that in the Puma access is about twice as difficult as the whole assembly is inverted compared to a Disco :(

Lou;

The Puma Barrel, switch and keys are the same as early Defender etc. The superceded part number covers all those models.

JC

[Loubrey]

29dinosaur,

This chaps postage is a bit ropy, but if this is typical of the price it doesn't seem that painful?

Land Rover Defender Ignition Barrel + 3 Door Locks Genuine on eBay! (http://compare.ebay.com.au/like/200916723148?ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes)

I quite like the older keys though, the Puma ones are quite large in your pocket...

Cheers,

Lou

[justinc]

29dinosaur,

This chaps postage is a bit ropy, but if this is typical of the price it doesn't seem that painful?

Land Rover Defender Ignition Barrel + 3 Door Locks Genuine on eBay! (http://compare.ebay.com.au/like/200916723148?ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes)

I quite like the older keys though, the Puma ones are quite large in your pocket...

Cheers,

Lou


Warning there are plenty of unbranded locksets out there. Make sure it is OEM!

JC

[29dinosaur]

Thanks for taking the time to help answer my questions.

[justinc]

No worries, thats probably why I am here on this planet :o :D


JC

[El Rey]

I've had the 110 into the dealer last week because I've had two incidents where the key would not turn in the barrel at all.

The first time I sat there for about 30 minutes jiggling, taking key in and out, putting the wheel lock on etc. and then for some reason it just worked.
Went home and put some Inox in it. Noticed there was a lot of play in the barrel too - quite loose.

A month or two later the same thing happened but after 45 minutes of no luck I ended up calling Land Rover Roadside Assist. They just sent out the RACQ! Hahaha!

The dealer here in Brisbane said the replacement has to come from England and will take 2-3 weeks.

At the same time I ordered a replacement key and fob because I lost one of the originals somewhere. Current cost of replacement - $570.00. That hurt.

[dazzler]

Folks is this the latest rev LR039638 ?

Mine is a bit fiddly also :(

[El Rey]

Folks is this the latest rev LR039638 ?

Mine is a bit fiddly also :(


Mine is a MY16 - not sure if that is the ignition model in it - sorry.

However I was glad it happened while I was in town and not out whoop whoop.

[dazzler]

Wow failing already! Mine is fiddly but serviceable, I want to carry a spare in case it lets go.
That said I squirted a generous amount of lanolin into the keyhole which flushed a lot of gunk out and now it seems to work a lot better.

[El Rey]

Wow failing already! Mine is fiddly but serviceable, I want to carry a spare in case it lets go.
That said I squirted a generous amount of lanolin into the keyhole which flushed a lot of gunk out and now it seems to work a lot better.


Someone in the Discovery forum said that you can use Inox or graphite, but not both - apparently that leads to gunk creation.

[DazzaTD5]

There are no short cuts.....Its familiarity with what to remove and what shaped tools to use that helps me get through this task without stress. It is something that shouldn't happen to so many. I find myself shaking my head each time I get one to do. County and Defender tdi / td5 ones were the same switch basically, Never replaced many of these at all. My County one is original and 27 years old. It would bolt straight into a Puma:o


JC

x2
key, fob, switch all the same as previous Defender TD5 (well the key is a big chunky key now (but its not a transponder key) thats great for Defender owners) The dealer price is nuts.

Yes funny how same part from earlier Defender models now fail on the Defender TDCi (puma).

How many diff lock switches have you replaced on a TDCi (puma)??

Regards
Daz

[El Rey]

Update:

After a few weeks, Land Rover contacted me and said the ignition part had arrived, so I made a booking and in it went today.

Outcome - not fixed.

As explained by the staffer today, Step 1 is not to replace the entire barrel as I'd been told - but to replace a lesser switch within the works. This is because LR dealers have to follow an escalating process rather than jumping straight to the more expensive parts.

Anyhow, replacing the switch didn't fix the stickiness of the key in the ignition and the looseness of the barrel itself, so now they're going to order the whole barrel, which will be another few weeks I guess.

I'd also ordered a replacement key and fob because I'd lost a set, and this was handed over today. Unfortunately in coding the new key and fob, they'd decoded my originals. So when I went to start it up the immobiliser cut the engine out. Back into the workshop it went to have the key recoded.

Lastly, LR do not cut the replacement key. You receive a coded blank which you then take to Mr. Minnit and have cut yourself. I checked beforehand that the key cutters would do the job without hassle and the dealer said they could call them if they had any concerns.

In the end the key guy kept asking me various pointed questions about whether or not the key was coded, and whether he could use his code-checking device to see what kind of system it used and what did I pay for it etc. When he did put his device to it, it didn't detect anything in either key, so not sure his tool is relevant to the chip in the LR keys.

Will update when the new barrel goes in, and hope that in the meantime I'm no inconvenienced with any more roadside call outs.

[Rolly]

My barrell is also being replaced. Tried the Graphite and seemed to help initially but same ole prob is back.

When I took it to the dealer he asked what I'd used. I replied 'Graphite', he responded....'Thank Goodness', anything else and it turns to gunk!

I'm waiting for the parts to arrive from UK........

[El Rey]

My barrell is also being replaced. Tried the Graphite and seemed to help initially but same ole prob is back.

When I took it to the dealer he asked what I'd used. I replied 'Graphite', he responded....'Thank Goodness', anything else and it turns to gunk!

I'm waiting for the parts to arrive from UK........

Are you using the dealer who used to be in the Valley, or the one out at Logan like me? Be interested to know if the one dealer was aware of this problem across multiple vehicles.

[El Rey]

Went back in for ignition barrel replacement today.

Dropped off at 7:45am and decided to wait around based on the previous estimate of a few hours. Should have headed off since it took till after 1:00pm to wrap up.

Key points:

1. The replacement barrel came with two new keys, so I could have saved myself the $500 odd I spent on a replacement key a few weeks ago.

2. Due to the replacement keys having nothing to do with my vehicle, and only with the ignition barrel they came with, the new keys will not unlock my vehicle's doors manually - although the fobs do that job most of the time anyway, and do work.

3. As a result, the dealer said they were supposed to take back the old keys but handed them back to me for emergency access to the vehicle, since they do unlock the doors.

4. The keys do turn smoothly in the barrel now, with no little catches or hitches that leave you sweating about whether they'll go all the way.

It was Defender Day at Springwood Jaguar Land Rover today. There were five Defenders there including mine. One that belonged to a University which was having the front suspension replaced because they had taken it down onto a beach and got it bogged, then apparently tried accelerating like crazy, then finally tried lowering the tire pressure.

Was also a nice dark grey 90, and two white 110's.

[Tomo]

Hi JC

I'm not sure which way to turn?
1. Just change the ignition switch which sits at the base of the barrel assembly
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/705.jpg



or
2. Change whole barrel and switch together.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/706.jpg



Do I need to reprogram anything if just doing switch or barrel switch?

I came across a description of how to do the ignition-key assembly in a disco on another forum. See Here. (http://landroverforums.com/forum/discovery-ii-18/ignition-lock-fix-35422/) My guess it would be similar on a deefa..??

My ignition switch failed as well in my 2009 puma.
It failed on the side of the road luckily not too far from my mates house who came up and rescued me (Had a car trailer on the back at the time!)
The problem was in the switch at the end of the ignition barrel (photo 1)
The ball bearings inside the switch were loose and had fallen out of position and not making the correct contact when you turned the key.
He figured out the correct position for the ball bearings and put the backing plate back on and bent over the little metal tabs and gave the switch more tension. All of this was done in the dark on the side of the Stuart hwy!
Thanks Danlandyman!!!
I think there must be a bad batch of ignition switches out there that do not have enough tension to them.
It is interesting to hear from JC that earlier defenders do not have this problem and have the same switch.....
I ended up replacing the switch only with a brand new genuine land rover one a few months late for peace of mind, however I believe the repaired switch probably would have lasted forever.....
I wish i took some photos now....
I contacted the dealer in regards to the problem and they wanted to replace the whole ignition barrel at some huge cost....
These type of poor quality control issues give Land rover such a bad name.....