Any thoughts on the pintle hook

[78RRman]

Hi all just chancing some info on the pintle hook or the the nato hitch. Is anyone still running them as a recovery point. Do they fit on the puma and is the rear cross member strong enough with a backing plate or there more to it than I'm thinking of?

[Mick_Marsh]

Hi all just chancing some info on the pintle hook or the the nato hitch. Is anyone still running them as a recovery point. Do they fit on the puma and is the rear cross member strong enough with a backing plate or there more to it than I'm thinking of?

I know nothing, but, I probably wouldn't use it as a recovery point.
They can tow 2 to 8 tonnes (maybe more depending on which one you have) but, like a towball, they're not designed for the stresses of a recovery.
Put properly rated recovery points on it. Might be cheaper in the end.

[Wallaby Ted]

I took the one I installed on my County and mounted it on an adapter similar to Hayman Reese (http://www.haymanreese.com.au/products/accessories.htm) (look for the Pintle Hook adapter except I paid just over half of that fleabay) on the back of my Puma with a Hayman Reese hitch.

I never used it as a recovery point on the county, only for towing the trailer and I also had another recovery point.

I did find when you mount it on the rear crossmember that you cannot open it without rotating it as it will foul on the spare tyre, with the attachment that isn't an issue anymore.


Richard

[Bush65]

...
Put properly rated recovery points on ...
I always get a kick out of the many statements I read like that.

No offense meant to Mick, for it is repeated over and over on forums, etc.

Who honestly believes the many recovery points people buy are actually rated properly? If so to what standard and method? And by what approved testing laboratory?

Just like other recovery options, there are different pintle hooks. There are some poor versions, but I would rate the one I have, greater than many other recovery points I've seen.

And to the OP, yeas the rear cross member should be strengthened to suit the pintle hook.

[Xtreme]

I always get a kick out of the many statements I read like that.

No offense meant to Mick, for it is repeated over and over on forums, etc.

Who honestly believes the many recovery points people buy are actually rated properly? If so to what standard and method? And by what approved testing laboratory?

Just like other recovery options, there are different pintle hooks. There are some poor versions, but I would rate the one I have, greater than many other recovery points I've seen.

And to the OP, yeas the rear cross member should be strengthened to suit the pintle hook.

x 2 ^^

[78RRman]

Thanks for your input guys just tossing up some options. They look stronger than a jate ring. Yeah I can't work out how they rate recovery points, there is a lot of strain in recovery and I suppose it depends on how stuck you are with a combination of how much power/ traction the recoverer has. Should only need one on the rear to pull my mates 73 series out:p haven't got a tow bar yet still researching that. I need the rear step and would hate to impair the departure angle, IMHO they should have just retained the strength in the cross member of previous models so the holes in it are useful;)

[Loubrey]

The problem basically comes in with the inability to brace the cross member back to the chassis. The Puma tank is shaped in such a way that only bespoke tow bars fit through the gaps and they run parallel to the chassis.

300Tdi's used to have optional diagonal braces back to the chassis to allow towing arrangements like NATO hitches to be fitted to the threaded holes in the cross member.

The Puma hasn't lost much, if any strength in its cross member, just the ability to brace...

Cheers,

Lou

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Put properly rated recovery points on it. Might be cheaper in the end.I always get a kick out of the many statements I read like that. ...
x 2 ^^Engage brain before putting mouth in gear!

Have any of you looked at the way the Army puts their pintle/NATO couplings on?

"I always get a kick when people jump on other members when they post about rated recovery points."

Just because the NATO coupling has potentially an 8Tonne rating (IIRC the Land Rover ones only have a 5Ton rating) if you look at the size of the bolts securing mounting plate you may want to reconsider abusing Mick for his comment.

If a recovery point is rated, the rating must also apply to the whole attachment right back to and including the chassis.

[thedrover]

There is also a fair variation in quality and design of the pintle hooks. (I assume) the cheaper ones are Chinese. Pay a heap more and you could get a 'NATO spec' (term used loosely) rotating pintle. If you tow trailers with a fixed ring, get this. Occasionally an olive green one pops up on the bay (for a fairly good price) .

When you mount it, use the high tensile bolts >8.

There are threads on other forums with people that have done/use them for serious recovery. If you aren't going to use it for towing, I wouldn't bother fitting one. It would be cheaper to pay someone for their 'fully rated, fully inflated price' recovery points.


I have both a pintle hook and a Hayman Reese towbar mounted (non LR vehicle) at the same time. The hayman Reese gets recovery duties every time (with a recovery tongue) it has at least 8 bolts widely spread mounting it to the chassis. I view the hayman Reese hitch 'pin' as a safety device.

[chook73]

I view the hayman Reese hitch 'pin' as a safety device.

Interesting, if this safety device fails it launches the recovery hitch towards the other vehicle......

I would have thought if you were going to put a safety device in the recovery it would be a soft sling with a blanket which if failed did not launch a metal object.

I would not suggest putting safety devices into any recovery, know the rating of the recovery equipment you are using and make sure it is all matched and inspected before every recovery. If the owner of the vehicle you are recovering doesn't know the rating of their recovery points then seriously consider the recovery and always err on the side of caution.

[Dougal]

I always get a kick out of the many statements I read like that.

No offense meant to Mick, for it is repeated over and over on forums, etc.

Who honestly believes the many recovery points people buy are actually rated properly? If so to what standard and method? And by what approved testing laboratory?

If those chinese recovery hooks are any indication, they load rating on them is their "fold open and release rope" point.

[Summiitt]

I only tow with a pintle hook as my trailers weigh around 3.8 ton.
I use a hayman Reece tow bar, and pintle adaptor, with a jost pintle hook.
I've recovered vehicles with the pintle hook, but only with a drag chain and not a snatch recovery, and I wouldn't trust one for a snatch recovery.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Recently a friend was in Central Australia and the top locking flap (or whatever you call it) departed from the hook, the first he knew was when the trailer departed also. (If you like you can come over and see the remains of the NATO coupling.)

If was used being in a recovery when that happened, it would be no better than a tow ball, apart from the fact that the flap/lock wouldn't become a projectile like the balls do. It would just be the chain or rope whipping around and some schrapnel.

[THE BOOGER]

I don't "trust" anything in a snatch recovery look at the youtube videos of recoveries where the points are strong and the whole front comes off the truck (mostly vids from UK and US):p

[thedrover]

So.. You wait for the ground to dry?

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/834.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/2007101.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/1006.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/2007106.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/792.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/2007107.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/1007.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/2007109.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/1008.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/jayco2005campervanhawk26122007001.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/1005.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101stuff2006017.jpg.html)

[Sitec]

I'm still struggling to get my head around the 'snatch straps' here which only seem to stretch 20 to 30% as oppose to a 'Kerr'/ snatch rope which expands up to 50%, making the recovery less brutal IMHO.... I remember also being told years ago that using a second sling with decent rating, pulling from the ends of the chassis rail was considered better (though this can introduce more objects to become projectiles...). If I get to the point where I have to snatch, I will pull off the two heavy (12mm) side plates of the tow bar assy, spreading the load thru the side plates and xmember. Even then, I'd rather an hour of sweat with the Tirfor than a failed snatch!! Let us all know what you decide!

Like that dropper plate Ron!

[THE BOOGER]

So.. You wait for the ground to dry?

nope have a winch, chains and tow rope also have a snatch strap but it is only for light recovery;)

PS: also a pick and shovel

[thedrover]

nope have a winch, chains and tow rope also have a snatch strap but it is only for light recovery;)

PS: also a pick and shovel

But what do you attach it to?!

[THE BOOGER]

The s111 has some very good recovery points( the army ones) I have attached 8 ton shackles on all 4 and the d1 has recovery points in the bull bar and a recovery hitch receiver to replace the tow ball:)

If there are no trees I winch of the other car that would have snatched me

[101 Ron]

My view is this.
Snatch straps produce uncontrolled loads thoughout the recovery equiptment including vehicles.
Snatch strap use and the forces involved are very much up to the operator of the vehicle towing the dead/ stuck vehicle.
Snatch straps are good for light pulls, but if used for harder jobs, anything can happen........or may not happen.
If using a winch, the forces and loads are usually easily known and the equiptment used can be matched to the job.
The military world wide for years have used pintle hooks for winching anchor points and dragging vehicles around with chains and cables without much trouble.( but not for snatch recoveries)
If I had to do a difficult snatch recovery I would tend to use nothing but the snatch strap and other nylon type slings without shackels around the strongest parts of the 2 vehicles involved................that way there is minimal risk of damage and injury if something lets go.

[THE BOOGER]

Back to the OP, ron the pintle in your first pic did you make it or can the be bought like that the only ones I have found are much longer and way over priced I need one for the disco?:)

[101 Ron]

I think It was home made more that 17 years ago ( I dont know its true history)
It seems to be just butt welded plate to which the pintle from a series three pintle is bolted to.
I have extensively used it for more than 10 years and put some silly loads on it without trouble.
I every now and then visually check the welds and hook and repaint it.
The only wear in that time has been a slighly enlongation of the pin hole for the hayman recee side of it.
I found the pintle hook it self will soak in a bit of light oil and I just give it two drops of engine oil before along trip and there has been no wear of the pintle or my trailer lunettes.
(Some of the trailers I use have more than 140 kg dragbar weight )

I do have a solid steel bar which I milled to shape( Hayman recee) to make another one if I ever find time to weld it up.........the idea is the solid steel bar allows a strong method of attachment and welding.

[Mick_Marsh]

I always get a kick out of the many statements I read like that.

No offense meant to Mick, for it is repeated over and over on forums, etc.

Who honestly believes the many recovery points people buy are actually rated properly? If so to what standard and method? And by what approved testing laboratory?

Just like other recovery options, there are different pintle hooks. There are some poor versions, but I would rate the one I have, greater than many other recovery points I've seen.

And to the OP, yeas the rear cross member should be strengthened to suit the pintle hook.
When you look at your pintle, I don't know what you see. When I look at mine, I see it is bolted on to some rather thin looking material that makes up the chassis with rather spindly looking bolts. I'm amazed at what they could tow. 3.5t apparently.
The pintle itself (parts of it are made from hollow bits) is on a rotating shaft the mechanicals of which are hidden.
Now, I understand it will probably tow 3.5t. The acceleration will be quite low. The forces will be well below design parameters.
Aliens D2, loaded with touring gear, comes in a little over 3.0t. Should I require to snatch him out of some sand for example (highly unlikely), the force on my pintle would be so much more than towing a 3.0t trailer because the acceleration (or deceleration in this case) is so much higher. As you no doubt know force = mass x acceleration and is really not something generated by Midi-chlorians.
What is the breaking strain of a snatch strap? I've seen many videos of snatch straps breaking and even witnessed one breaking in real life.
With a rated recovery point, you know it will hold up to that force. Now, I'm not suggesting that if you use the pintle you will get a pintle where your brain should be. I would suggest, however, you may be damaging it. You may only become aware of this damage when one day you are overtaken by your trailer.

As I said, I know nothing, I have, however, learnt from the experience of someone who was overtaken by their trailer.