No Defenders to be made in 2015?

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Get them while you can...

Who wants to roll the dice on trying to get the last Puma off the production line? ;)


During the 65th anniversary celebration for the brand last week, motoring.com.au spoke with John Edwards, Global Brand Director for Land Rover, who revealed that the manufacturer would "stop building" the current Defender (http://www.motoring.com.au/news/landrover/Defender) in 2015.

Edwards would not admit that its next-generation successor would immediately go into production at Solihull specifically. In fact, he stated: "I can guarantee it won't go into production in '15."Source: Land Rover weighs up aluminium Defender - motoring.com.au (http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2013/large-4x4/land-rover/defender/land-rover-weighs-up-aluminium-defender-36442)

[Dougal]

I can imagine the delay. Replacing tables with rivet guns and monkey wrenches with robots etc will take some work.:angel:

[frantic]

So from LR's previous "performances" on timing will :
A) LR get their act together and release the new defender on their 70th anniversary :D
B) fuddle around and miss that date by 18 months.
Or
C) be unable to make a decision and keep producing the defender with a new engine till 2020 ?

[Sandgroper]

So from LR's previous "performances" on timing will :
A) LR get their act together and release the new defender on their 70th anniversary :D
B) fuddle around and miss that date by 18 months.
Or
C) be unable to make a decision and keep producing the defender with a new engine till 2020 ?

I'll go with "C"

[scarry]

I'll go with "C"

And by then it will be around ,lets say,1.6l in capacity and have two cylinders:p

Oh,and have some complicated electric thingy bolted to it as well......

[Michael2]

Maybe the Sri Lankan plant will be up and running by 2015 for Classic Defender production.

The Indian Freelander plant is said to be expensive to run due to Indian red tape. Sri Lanka still uses Defenders for the military.

Land Rover Defender to Be Made in Sri Lanka - autoevolution (http://www.autoevolution.com/news/land-rover-defender-made-in-sri-lanka-57615.html)

Land Rover Defender to be assembled in Sri Lanka (http://indianautosblog.com/2013/04/land-rover-defender-to-be-assembled-in-sri-lanka-70952)

Classic Land Rover Defender to Be Made in Sri Lanka as Well - Carscoops (http://www.carscoops.com/2013/04/classic-land-rover-defender-to-be-made.html)

Land Rover Defender to be Manufactured Locally in Sri-Lanka | CarDekho.com (http://www.cardekho.com/india-car-news/land-rover-defender-to-be-manufactured-locally-in-srilanka-10098.htm)

[Didge]

Maybe the Sri Lankan plant will be up and running by 2015 for Classic Defender production.

....

Should see an improvement in build quality then, eh?

[rijidij]

And by then it will be around ,lets say,1.6l in capacity and have two cylinders:p

Oh,and have some complicated electric thingy bolted to it as well......

My non-electronic, 3.9 litre Isuzu County will still be going strong well beyond 2020 :D

Cheers, Murray

[Dougal]

And by then it will be around ,lets say,1.6l in capacity and have two cylinders:p

Oh,and have some complicated electric thingy bolted to it as well......

Considering the decreasing displacement has come with increased performance and decreased fuel consumption. I'm not really seeing the problem there.

I'd certainly take a 2.2 Puma over a 3.9 V8 defender every time.

[ProjectDirector]

Should see an improvement in build quality then, eh?

I hope this is a sign of sarcasm:D

[goingbush]

Well if they could make a "special" 2003 Defender with a Tdi, I'll take my special order 2014 Defender with a Td5 please.

[numpty]

I'm pretty sure that the "next" Defender will not be built at Solihull either. In India is most likely.

[noogie]

I'm definately hanging on to my 2005 td5.
It has now become an appreciating asset:D

It better cause it owes me a small fortune.

[Loubrey]

I'm pretty sure that the "next" Defender will not be built at Solihull either. In India is most likely.

Read the full article posted earlier in the thread. They are building 4 brand new "state of the art" aluminium body assembly plants at solihull (last on will only be finished early 2015). One each for the new Range Rover, Range Rover Sport and potentially one each for the brand new Discovery 5 and Defender planned to be available early 2016.

The Discovery 4 is hover so successful that the Discovery 5 might be delayed, but Land Rover appears to be moving to all aluminium and the Disco 4 is still steel.

Land Rover has pretty much confirmed the "Heavy Offroad" division ie Defender, will stay in Solihull.

Everybody is hoping though for a continued "flat pack" assembly of "classic" Defenders elsewhere in the world (most probably a developing country if rumours are to be believed)

Cheers,

Lou

[newhue]

My non-electronic, 3.9 litre Isuzu County will still be going strong well beyond 2020 :D

Cheers, Murray

don't get too cheeky,
Leaded petrol cars have all but vanished. Better hope the Government don't have a rush of blood and place a strong emissions standard on diesels. Doing it in Europe, and only have to have the yanks to do it more than in California and guess who'll follow.

What EU standard is a Isuzu. My 2010 Tdci is EU4 and it has been surpassed by EU5 when the 2.2's came out. 2015 will see another jump in level I assume.
Emissions are like safety, where does it stop.

I dream of driving and constantly fixing my 2010 for another 30 years but some how i think the Government won't let me.

[Didge]

Well that means the government will also be taking a lot of small trucks off the road as well and anyway, those of us with TDi's and Isuzu's could always revert to cooking oil (couldn't we?)

[isuzurover]

don't get too cheeky,
Leaded petrol cars have all but vanished. Better hope the Government don't have a rush of blood and place a strong emissions standard on diesels. Doing it in Europe, and only have to have the yanks to do it more than in California and guess who'll follow.

What EU standard is a Isuzu. My 2010 Tdci is EU4 and it has been surpassed by EU5 when the 2.2's came out. 2015 will see another jump in level I assume.
Emissions are like safety, where does it stop.

I dream of driving and constantly fixing my 2010 for another 30 years but some how i think the Government won't let me.

Emissions specs have never been retrospective in AU (or the US).

There are plenty of leaded petrol cars, though they now all invariably have hardened valve seats fitted if driven regularly.

4BD1s comply with Euro 1 (or at least some do). Euro 5/6 for passenger vehicles (includes LRs/defenders) is being phased in between now and 2018 because the number concentration limit was "too hard" for the Australian industry to compy with and they said they needed more time.

Any diesel can comply with Euro 6 if retrofitted with a DPF, Oxy-cat and SCR (worst case scenario...)...

For commonrail diesel owners, if you want to be driving your vehicle long-term, you will need to fit improved fuel filtration, or budget for regular changes of injectors.

[Dougal]

don't get too cheeky,
Leaded petrol cars have all but vanished.

They vanished of their own accord (age of vehicles etc), not because of govt intervention.

The only country silly enough to outlaw diesels was Japan in several cities. That cost their automotive industry an incredible amount. It is the sole reason that all good passenger car diesels for the last 13 years are european.

[solmanic]

I still hold out hope that Land Rover can pull off a new Defender successfully. They've done it with the Range Rover. Visually in tune with the original but still better in every way (except maybe price). They have the technology...

[wpalmo]

Considering the decreasing displacement has come with increased performance and decreased fuel consumption. I'm not really seeing the problem there.

I'd certainly take a 2.2 Puma over a 3.9 V8 defender every time.

You are joking surely!!

[Dougal]

You are joking surely!!

Nope. Puma 2.2 vs 3.9 V8 is an easy choice. The V8 only does two things well. Drink and burble.

But it's not a choice I need to make anytime soon. I've got a 4BD1T instead.:p

[newhue]

Isn't it in London anyway, the newest Defender allowed within 30 mile is a Td5 or later. A Tdi is not welcome unless modified to EU 4 or more.

I think LR will do a decent job of a new Defender. But one will have to accept more electrics along with creature comforts to be happy with it. If LR don't get build quality and reliability better though, I won't be signing up, and may even ditch the one I already have. At the current rate of crap that goes on I don't think I wil be able to afford to keep it.

[frantic]

The big difference between Oz and the rest of the first world is our fleet avg. age! E.U, U.K and, Japan are all at or well under 7years avg age of vehicle on the road. We sit around the 10-12year mark which means if you enact a stupid rule like londons which basically bans any vehicle older than 1999 you ban over 1/2 the cars in Oz compared to the 20% blocked in the U.K.
Meanwhile we allow 5% of the worlds dirtiest emissions to go unchecked as they are all registered in foreign countries. Look at bunker oil and shipping transport emissions.
Australian shipping emissions identified | CSIRO (http://www.csiro.au/Portals/Media/Australian-shipping-emissions-identified.aspx)
Environmental impact of shipping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[KarlB]

I'd certainly take a 2.2 Puma over a 3.9 V8 defender every time.

Me too. Better for the environment. Better for my pocket. And better for touring.

KarlB
:)

[Dougal]

Isn't it in London anyway, the newest Defender allowed within 30 mile is a Td5 or later. A Tdi is not welcome unless modified to EU 4 or more.

Isn't there an option to pay about 100 quid per day instead?

When I was over there a few years back, all the double decker buses have plates by the doors proclaiming that they are powered by euro 5 compliant engines.

[FeatherWeightDriver]

I think LR will do a decent job of a new Defender. But one will have to accept more electrics along with creature comforts to be happy with it.

I certainly hope so, but juggling creature comforts, capability, looks and price will mean something will probably have to give... :mad:

[newhue]

Isn't there an option to pay about 100 quid per day instead?

When I was over there a few years back, all the double decker buses have plates by the doors proclaiming that they are powered by euro 5 compliant engines.

not sure, but looking around here busses are all gas, trucks are mostly modern these days and rarely billow black smoke. Who now what the powers that be will do. Knee capping a certain amount of the population doesn't worry the powers if it's the direction they choose to go.


I certainly hope so, but juggling creature comforts, capability, looks and price will mean something will probably have to give... :mad:

I hope so too. You'd imaging probably being made from robots, or in countries with cheaper labour then all desires should be obtainable. But yes your right, sadly it won't. Just look at the current offering. I'm up to immobiliser #4, and reading on here I'm not alone. I'm guessing a $10 part made in china is regularly replaced with similar crap because head office doesn't want to spend $15 per unit, or has 100K units to use up first.
I'm hoping the profits from not using english labour goes into product quality. However the cynic in me expects it to go more so into CEO and the like bonuses for having such a great idea.

[Didge]

You're on the money there Jason; execs and shareholders rejoice at their new bonuses whilst owners complain about the new problems. If only they'd listen, they'd smash the Jap products. Boggles the mind :(

[ProjectDirector]

You're on the money there Jason; execs and shareholders rejoice at their new bonuses whilst owners complain about the new problems. If only they'd listen, they'd smash the Jap products. Boggles the mind :(

Agree Didge, I have been an executive myself for a good 6 years and my ethics made me stop. Bottom line is No.1 and is about cutting costs and quality suffers and yes big bonuses drive everything unfortunately.

I am picking up my new defender 110 on 25th and I am dreading the thought of component failures because of cheap Chinese crap.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Didge]

Perhaps the time is nearly here for us to form an Aussie company to build the absolutely perfect 4wd (then again maybe we should see what Solihull does first cos they reckon its coming from there)

[Homestar]

I still hold out hope that Land Rover can pull off a new Defender successfully. They've done it with the Range Rover. Visually in tune with the original but still better in every way (except maybe price). They have the technology...

You're kidding right? The new Rangie looks awful and most of the original styling cues from the Classic are fading or gone completely now. The L322 still had them, but this latest abomination is anything BUT a Range Rover IMO...:mad:

The double step down in the bonnet is almost completely gone, the line from the front number to the back is just not there any more as the front bumper goes up past the headlights now. The front of the car is curved, not block shaped like all the others. The overhang at the front is massive compared to all the others. The back tailgate is sloped heaps more than the others which makes it look more like the Sport. The tailgate also opens differently now. It is now 2/3 up, 1/3 down rather than 50/50. Cargo area has decreased and the sides of the car slope in more. There are still some small elements that are there, but it really doesn't look like a Range Rover any more.

The P38 had good lines and was a noticeable progression of the Classic, as was the L322. If you look at a Classic and an L405 it is harder to make that connection.

It means I simply will never own a Range Rover that is later than the 2012 build, they have ****ed it good and proper.

LR are slowly merging all the styling cues into one car, the new sport and 405 looks more like a pumped up Evoque. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/321.jpg (http://www.sherv.net/emoticons.html) I don't hold high hopes for the Defender based on what they have done with the latest models of the RR or the Sport...:(

[technophile]

Looks like resale value is going to going through the roof. It pretty good at the moment, but imagine when they stop making new ones... :o

[Dougal]

Perhaps the time is nearly here for us to form an Aussie company to build the absolutely perfect 4wd (then again maybe we should see what Solihull does first cos they reckon its coming from there)

I reckon you guys would make a heater that works nicely at 5C, but does nothing at -25C.

[the_preacher1973]

You're kidding right? The new Rangie looks awful and most of the original styling cues from the Classic are fading or gone completely now. The L322 still had them, but this latest abomination is anything BUT a Range Rover IMO...:mad:

The double step down in the bonnet is almost completely gone, the line from the front number to the back is just not there any more as the front bumper goes up past the headlights now. The front of the car is curved, not block shaped like all the others. The overhang at the front is massive compared to all the others. The back tailgate is sloped heaps more than the others which makes it look more like the Sport. The tailgate also opens differently now. It is now 2/3 up, 1/3 down rather than 50/50. Cargo area has decreased and the sides of the car slope in more. There are still some small elements that are there, but it really doesn't look like a Range Rover any more.

The P38 had good lines and was a noticeable progression of the Classic, as was the L322. If you look at a Classic and an L405 it is harder to make that connection.

It means I simply will never own a Range Rover that is later than the 2012 build, they have ****ed it good and proper.

LR are slowly merging all the styling cues into one car, the new sport and 405 looks more like a pumped up Evoque. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/321.jpg (http://www.sherv.net/emoticons.html) I don't hold high hopes for the Defender based on what they have done with the latest models of the RR or the Sport...:(

C'mon. You can't bag the 405 like that and leave out the worst bit! The side air vents that are meant to provide cooling for the brakes are built into the front doors. No reason to be there except for "styling". They make the nose look even longer exacerbating the excessive front overhang. This is my main concern about the new defender. Styling will come before practicality, form before function, the antithesis of the original 110.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

.....

Everybody is hoping though for a continued "flat pack" assembly of "classic" Defenders elsewhere in the world (most probably a developing country if rumours are to be believed)

Cheers,
LouI'm still assembling my flat pack classic Defender, in the shed. Although the flat packing also occurred in Sydney with the previous (now deceased) owner. :D

Land Rover have been saying for years that they plan to have a Defender replacement in 2015, the project has been called L660 (not the design concept vehicle DC100) and the new model is unlikely to be called Defender.

[Homestar]

C'mon. You can't bag the 405 like that and leave out the worst bit! The side air vents that are meant to provide cooling for the brakes are built into the front doors. No reason to be there except for "styling". They make the nose look even longer exacerbating the excessive front overhang. This is my main concern about the new defender. Styling will come before practicality, form before function, the antithesis of the original 110.

Ha ha, woops, I forgot that clanger...! I did use this emoticon though - https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/321.jpg (http://www.sherv.net/emoticons.html)

That sort of sums it up though...:D

[Didge]

I reckon you guys would make a heater that works nicely at 5C, but does nothing at -25C.
Just priced it for those in the "Land of wrong white crowd" or that place that is beyond the land down under - it's gonna cost you guys over there an extra $2,500 and we'll even thrown in some nice lambswool seat covers :)

[isuzurover]

... and we'll even thrown in some nice lambswool seat covers :)


Surely the kiwis would prefer possum fur seat covers?

[Dougal]

Surely the kiwis would prefer possum fur seat covers?

You have no idea how awesome they would be. Possum fur is serious luxury.

BTW, we pay a shed-load more than $2,500 more than aussie (exchange rate adjusted) for the same vehicles. We get rogered in this country for vehicles and parts.

[isuzurover]

You have no idea how awesome they would be. Possum fur is serious luxury.

BTW, we pay a shed-load more than $2,500 more than aussie (exchange rate adjusted) for the same vehicles. We get rogered in this country for vehicles and parts.

When I was last in kiwiland, I lost count of the number of kiwis who were surprised that possums were protected in AU. My reply was always - well the kiwi (bird) is protected in NZ isn't it?

But yes, they would be good...

[solmanic]

You're kidding right? The new Rangie looks awful and most of the original styling cues from the Classic are fading or gone completely now. The L322 still had them, but this latest abomination is anything BUT a Range Rover IMO...:mad:

No, not the 2013 one. I agree, that's a balls-up. I meant the previous one before they tried to over-pimp everything.

[Dougal]

When I was last in kiwiland, I lost count of the number of kiwis who were surprised that possums were protected in AU. My reply was always - well the kiwi (bird) is protected in NZ isn't it?

But yes, they would be good...

Yeah the bloody things thrived over here. They've also evolved and are a lot bigger and furrier than the Aussie ones. I saw an Aussie one in Colac in 2006. What a runt.:D

[Didge]

Dougal, I reckon we all get ripped off. Our bloody government has given away billions of our taxes to Europe, Indonesia and every other bludger who puts their hand out for a dollar and then just ups the tax to get it back. Wouldn't be so bad if they didn't just waste it. NZ and Oz pay heaps more for everything than they do in the USA. For example, there's an enquiry here as to why Apple are charging something like double in Aus for their products.
As for possums, the little bastards play football on my roof every night. People think they're cute, but they the poop and pee all over the joint, it stinks and to me ( ok, they're an innocent little animal) they're a pest if they're around your house.

[Homestar]

No, not the 2013 one. I agree, that's a balls-up. I meant the previous one before they tried to over-pimp everything.

Whew! Thought you were going blind or senile there for a minute...:D

[juddy]

This the latest idea from Land Rover, getting there I suppose.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/591.jpg (http://s856.photobucket.com/user/juddyburton/media/Screenshot2013-05-16at10451PM_zpsb07543cc.png.html)

[Dougal]

Looks like a bronco.

[Loubrey]

Project "Icon" is most probably one of the biggest marketing secrets in motoring history. The impact on the 4WD world with a vehicle as capable as a Defender, but without most of its "quirks" has immense potential. We as enthusiast might not see it or like it, but Land Rover is aiming at global market growth.

Keeping this in mind I honestly think that unless some serious industrial espionage manages to catch a glimpse of it, we are unlikely to see more than Land Rover wants us to see before the official unveiling.

IMO anything we see before the actual fanfare launch of the vehicle will be misinformation and some of that will be deliberate from Land Rover themselves.

Cheers,

Lou

[OffTrack]

Project "Icon" is most probably one of the biggest marketing secrets in motoring history. The impact on the 4WD world with a vehicle as capable as a Defender, but without most of its "quirks" has immense potential. We as enthusiast might not see it or like it, but Land Rover is aiming at global market growth.

Keeping this in mind I honestly think that unless some serious industrial espionage manages to catch a glimpse of it, we are unlikely to see more than Land Rover wants us to see before the official unveiling.

IMO anything we see before the actual fanfare launch of the vehicle will be misinformation and some of that will be deliberate from Land Rover themselves.

Cheers,

Lou

It's a design exercise posted to the web in August 2012 by a person who uses the name "Dezyn Smith"

Defender Concept 2015 on Behance (http://www.behance.net/gallery/Defender-Concept-2015/4944569)

Most definitely not the latest from LR (or anywhere else).

cheers
Paul

[Dougal]

we are unlikely to see more than Land Rover wants us to see before the official unveiling.

Yeah, expect the usual "leaks" to generate hype and interest before launch.

[isuzurover]

Yeah the bloody things thrived over here. They've also evolved and are a lot bigger and furrier than the Aussie ones. I saw an Aussie one in Colac in 2006. What a runt.:D

The ones in Brisbane are just as big and fat as the kiwi ones. On surburban streets at night you can see big fat brushtails having fights on the power lines.

[sashadidi]

If this article is correct it looks like defender might be really finished as we know it.
From the article: Landrover shelves plans for a basic defender as Tata sales fall. Plans to build in India to be scrapped.
Mods if this article is a copyright problem please remove as I do not want to cause any problems.

[Loubrey]

If this article is correct it looks like defender might be really finished as we know it.
From the article: Landrover shelves plans for a basic defender as Tata sales fall. Plans to build in India to be scrapped.
Mods if this article is a copyright problem please remove as I do not want to cause any problems.

That article does read very ominous...

Not economically viable anymore after they speculated that they might be built back in Solihull.:(

There was always talks of a "tough" Discovery 5 (or what ever the "extended family" of Discoveries will be called in future) and that will be as good as off roading might be...

Sound like we'll have to look after our current cars for a very, very long time...

[weeds]

No great loss if no more defenders are made.........I'm happy enough with mine

[newhue]

Well I have just had a Disco 4 for a few days while my Defender is being serviced and bought back to new with warranty repairs.
I have to say the Disco is very nice, handles great and goes like a rocket compared to a defender. I believe they are very capable off road, relatively reliable, and big sellers. But for me has no feel or soul to it. Instead, I hoped into my wallowing, slow, door cramming, hand brake rubbing noisy tractor and happily drove it home.

It would not surprise me at all if the Defender that we know becomes a memory. The new younger market didn't grow up with Les Hiddens, or the Leyland Brothers. So an iconic shape starts to become irrelevant to them and sales. Instead a new modern replacement a bit boxy but nothing really like the old. A modern utilitarian basic truck heavily electronically aided. LR have the technology on the board with the Disco and RR's.

Hand made cars are expansive to build. The build quality crap and impossible to have the same each day. Warranty must take away any profits that were ever made. Where-as robot production produces far better quality and reliability, and faster. Old crusty Defer owners don't upgrade, young romantics with an interest in a Defender are few and far and are happy to buy second hand anyway. Like it or not, us Defender owners are in the minority when it comes to company profitability.

However LR still need a work horse in the stable, but something like a Disco version of a Defender. Something more profitable, something faster and easier to produce, and something that sells like Diso.

I dare say it won't appeal to many Defender owners. A Tdci is already proof of that. And the 40 a month or so of us who do buy new, aren't a scratch on the 800+ commercial cars a month the Japanese manufactures enjoy. So plenty of work to do, and plenty of marketing as well.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Newhue

I love my D4 its awesome! But I still have a number of series Landies and a Defender, they will be staying in my fleet.

So I can have my D4 and my Defenders too! :BigThumb: