110 Hard Top vs Station Wagon

[Lagerfan]

Hi all,

Just wondering which makes the better base for a tourer? We've only had our 90 four months and already the topic of our next Defender has come up. That's next as in "additional" - not replacement :D

We don't need the rear seats and the options/capacity for kitting out the hard top seem better (say Mulgo Expedition style) so just wondering what the consensus is.

Main downside is I believe you can only get the 110 hard top built to order in Aus so that probably means more $$$ (*) and lead time but would the flexibility be worth it?

Just wonderin' anyways.

* Prices on http://www.landrover.com/au have the hard top at $3k cheaper

[isuzutoo-eh]

There are arguments both ways.
When my parents had a toyota troop carrier, getting to the gear that was nearish to the front seats was an absolute pain, a second row of doors would have been fantastic.
Once you take out the middle row seats, there probably isn't much difference apart from accessibility.

[clive22]

Hi


Been thinking similar thoughts for my next landy adddition too. Hard top, ute, wagon, etc for a tourer.

Read somewhere that there is a company putting in rear doors in Toyota troop carriers, tells me it a pain getting stuff in out/behind the seats w/out those rear doors, well enough pay up $$$ to put one in.

Reckon if you go hard top you really need some long drawers one or two each side to access the pocket behind the seats.

For these reasons I'm thinking wagon or ute.

Clive

[Lagerfan]

getting to the gear that was nearish to the front seats was an absolute pain, a second row of doors would have been fantastic.

With the height of a defender and the limited travel in the front seats this is an excellent point!

[Lagerfan]

Read somewhere that there is a company putting in rear doors in Toyota troop carriers, tells me it a pain getting stuff in out/behind the seats w/out those rear doors, well enough pay up $$$ to put one in.

If you want to go down that road I was thinking you can solve this somewhat with gullwing doors (http://www.expeditioncentre.com.au/online-store/land-rover-defender-acc-/csw-gullwing-door-for-land-rover-defender.html) or similar maybe?

[n plus one]

If you want to go down that road I was thinking you can solve this somewhat with gullwing doors (http://www.expeditioncentre.com.au/online-store/land-rover-defender-acc-/csw-gullwing-door-for-land-rover-defender.html) or similar maybe?

Hard top with long drawers and double gullwings would be my recommendation. I think it would be a better arrangement than my 110 5 seater (but still not as good as a 130!).

[isuzutoo-eh]

Some people mount their fridge by the passenger side middle row door on a station wagon, which would be about the perfect spot I reckon

[n plus one]

Some people mount their fridge by the passenger side middle row door on a station wagon, which would be about the perfect spot I reckon

That,s where I've relocated mine to - perfect location and keeps the 60 seat available for the dog/mates/clothes bags/etc

[Landy Smurf]

I would go the s/w for the doors and who knows maybe later on you want that second row of seats

[steane]

My hardtop is setup for 'selfish' touring. Bulkhead behind seats has been lowered so plenty of room to adjust the seats. Fridge sits in the centre just behind the bulkhead so can access from either front seat, and storage room either side of it (no need for passo doors to access this area). Cargo barrier sits behind the fridge and keeps all of the camping gear out of that section.

Bucket loads of room in the back, more than I'll ever need. You have to climb in from time to time to get some things but it's never been a hassle, you just pack what you need access to the most near the door.

I think I will add a set of drawers to carry tools, spares and recovery equipment. It will still leave plenty of room for everything else.

Two less doors to belt up and down on corrugations and let in dust.:cool: but obviously a big trade-off in usability if there is more than two of you, unless you're happy to strap little Johnny to the roof rack ;)

[vnx205]

There are arguments both ways.
When my parents had a toyota troop carrier, getting to the gear that was nearish to the front seats was an absolute pain, a second row of doors would have been fantastic.
Once you take out the middle row seats, there probably isn't much difference apart from accessibility.

It probably depends on the sort of gear you take and how you arrange it.

When I had the Series III LWB hardtop, I don't remember access to items being a huge problem.

Space immediately behind the seats was reserved for things that were needed only very rarely. The exception was the 15 litre Engel fridge, but access from the front seat was just as convenient as from the rear of the vehicle. In fact SWMBO could grab another bottle of cold water from the fridge while we were moving without leaving her seat.

I had a half length floor at the rear that sat on top of the wheel arches/toolboxes. Plywood boxes with rope handles slid out onto the tailgate to get access to food, stove, cooking gear, etc.

Day to day clothes and sleeping bags were on a false ceiling that sat on the internal flange that held the top of the roof on. That not only made it easy to reach them, but cut down the noise and heat inside the vehicle.

With different equipment and a different style of camping, that might not work for everyone, but it worked for me.

[Westie]

We've had both the hard top (with 3 seats & no cubby box) & the station wagon. The station wagon is more flexible and the load space more accessible (with or without the middle seats) with the extra set of doors. The hard top interior space is an easier shape to use (full length wheel arches), easy to set up a bed and you can install lockers that are externally accessible in front of the rear wheels.

I think if I wanted only an expedition or extended touring vehicle I'd go with the hard top, otherwise for touring and everyday flexibility - the station wagon.

[MLD]

The Toyo troop carrier third door conversation is approx $7,000 drive in drive out. Priced for the mining companies no doubt.

I have a 50ltr fridge and i mount it behind the driver's seat in the s/w. I have a false floor to level off the rear seat foot well to the rear tub. The gap between the false floor and the foot well is good for tent poles, pipes, ropes etc. Leaving the single rear seat as a rarely used jump seat and there is ample room between the fridge and jump seat for stuff ie recovery gear bag, nibbles provisions, jackets etc etc etc. With a false floor between the wheel boxes under which i throw tool box, fold up chairs, table etc etc, there is a massive void in the rear for other stuff.

I have a cargo barrier too.

I like Allan's idea of a shelf near the roof for shoving light stuff to be kept out of the way of water ingress. Maybe a modification for the upcoming cape trip. Somewhere to stash the camera equip and clothes for those water crossings.

I will return to my original thought, a 130 single extra-cab with a tray back slide on camper. Room for everything. Not sure you can get a single cab 130, maybe special order. Now i'm off to the Newsagent to buy a lotto ticket to pay for my dream.

As an alternative (slightly blasphemous) a Mitsu Canter 4x4 tray back with the slider on camper. Big, great ground clearance and plenty of room on the back. RFS sell them from time to time. There is a petrol one for sale at present. The RFS are swapping out petrol for diesel.

MLD

[Lagerfan]

Well thanks for all the ideas everyone, keep 'em coming. Plenty to think about.

Like MLD, this plan of ours might require a lotto win, especially if they are going to stop making Defenders in 18 months, that's not long enough to save up I'm just realising...

[Dan346]

I love my hardtop. That is all.

[Westie]

I like Allan's idea of a shelf near the roof for shoving light stuff to be kept out of the way of water ingress. Maybe a modification for the upcoming cape trip. Somewhere to stash the camera equip and clothes for those water crossings.MLD

We've used one of those bungee cord nets up against the roof for sleeping bags etc. It weighs next to nothing and does the job well.

[slug_burner]

I have never had a hardtop, I have s/w and have found the second set of doors very good with the way I laid things out. The fridge at 80 ltrs sit behind the front seats and is accessible from either back door, I have a couple of square tubes to provide the false floor benefits.

I have a cargo barrier immediately behind the front seats, I didn't want anything coming forward in case of an accident including fridge contents. With the cargo barrier behind the the front seats I feel it provides the best support to the roof above the occupants seats in case of a roll over.

You can't go wrong with either when out touring but what you can do with the vehicle the rest of the time will be affected by your choice.

[Wicks89]

There's no doubt that you get less flexibility day to day with the hardtop compared to the station wagon, but the way I like to see it is it's pretty similar to having a ute with canopy.
As far as setting the whole rig up for two people to tour around you can probably set it up really well and have it all tessellated in together in whatever order you desire. Some accessories can be hard to find or strap on just because they're not very common. My TF rockslides for example required me to put in an extra beam, as the third mounting point for them that's normally in SW wasn't on my hard top.
Also the side panel toolboxes that I would LOVE to have seem to be pretty bloody expensive (770 bucks a pop!!) if anyone knows of them any cheaper hook me up please!

For two people it's awesome. And if you really want turn it into a troopy and carry the whole clan around. Damn passengers anyway I say I love my hardtop. There's more than enough space in it for anything and everything you want to put in there.

[Jeff]

I was having this discussion the other day with someone while looking at army 110s on an auction site. I said the flat floor behind the front seats gives much more room than the long boxes in the back, and access is much better. I had two 2A hardtops and a wagon, and now have a Defender wagon, and on the 2A the wagon body would crack the firewall more than the hardtop as it was not as rigid. On the Defender this doesn't seem an issue.

Jeff

:rocket:

[PhilipA]

Read somewhere that there is a company putting in rear doors in Toyota troop carriers, tells me it a pain getting stuff in out/behind the seats w/out those rear doors, well enough pay up $$$ to put one in.

You cannot now register a Troopie for tourism work in WA for sure and AFAIK in other states, without a third door fitted.

Acquaintence of mine ran a tourism outfit and had his broken down troopie dropped off a truck on recovery. Bought a new one went to get rego and they say nup we just let you get away with the old one under Grandfathering.
Shut the business down as too much extra to ship to Vic , get the door etc etc.
Regards Philip A

[AdsLandies]

I'd say go with a wagon. I have a SIII wagon, which we used to use for touring a lot. I'd wanted a hardtop before I bought this, but the wagon came up, and I'm glad it did. The rear side doors are so convienient for access, especially if you have a double bed set up in the back. One big advantage was having the storage space deeper in the second row footwell meant we could easily fit a 40L Engel fridge in there under the bed, which we couldn't have fit in if we had a hardtop. As others have commented, you can always put the seat back in one day and have a more useful vehicle in the long run.

[Westie]

I had a series III hardtop for a while that had a water tank in the wheel arch space. That worked really well.

[Benz]

Rather then make a new thread I thought I would spark this one back to life.

I have plans to do a trans Africa trip to the UK with a possible RTW trip on the cards depending on how much we can save ect. Our thoughts were we might only get one shot at this and we will be building up a rig to do the trip anyway.
We saved 70K cash in 2 years so who knows it might be possible.

We have our hearts set on one of mulgo's pop tops and we were wondering.

Wagon or Hardtop?
Keep in mind this car would be built up purely as an overland tourer which we can live in. We would like to set it up so we can cook inside the car if required.

If we went the hardtop route I would try and find an ex army one in good nick.
Otherwise we would go for a tdi wagon. The tdi hard tops are pretty rare in Australia from what I can find.

This question is probably a little premature but I found this thread and thought I might as well stir the pot.

Cheers
Ben

[cripesamighty]

Hardtop for sale at the moment. One of several I have seen recently.

2010 Land Rover Defender 110 11MY (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2010/SSE-AD-2713803/?Cr=60&sdmvc=1)

[Benz]

Hardtop for sale at the moment. One of several I have seen recently.

2010 Land Rover Defender 110 11MY (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2010/SSE-AD-2713803/?Cr=60&sdmvc=1)

yeah there are a few newer puma ones around.
I would want a older one though. At least a 300tdi.

it means less electrics plus carnet is cheaper with an old banger.
cheaper to buy too :)

[cripesamighty]

Yeah, carnet is a bitch! And I do enjoy my 300 TDi too...

[Leyland1980]

We have our hearts set on one of mulgo's pop tops and we were wondering.

Wagon or Hardtop?
Keep in mind this car would be built up purely as an overland tourer which we can live in. We would like to set it up so we can cook inside the car if required.

If we went the hardtop route I would try and find an ex army one in good nick.
Otherwise we would go for a tdi wagon. The tdi hard tops are pretty rare in Australia from what I can find.

This question is probably a little premature but I fond this tread and thought I might as well stir the pot.

Cheers
Ben

Why not stick with the 130 you are currently rocking?

Also don't write off the TD5 not as complicated as advertised and Africa is pretty well used to them, most sensors and gizmos can identified using a hand held diagnostics tool (nanocom or similar) and can be got hold of pretty quickly and cheaply (probably even cheaper than in Aus) even in Africa out of the UK.

Out TD5 was fine on a trans Africa and I would happily take it on a round the world trip.

[landy]

We are working towards a trans-Africa/ UK trip as well and Im in the process of building our car up as a tourer. I have a SW so am starting there. I already remove the middle seats for extra room as its dead easy anyway and have made a false floor which seems to work quite well. I would like more storage though so will modify the space in due course. I do like that there is good access to the middle though the doors. I have the gull wings too and these are great for added access. Well worth the cost.
Kerry and I really liked the Mulgo Pop Top we saw recently at the Brisbane camping show but at $9k its out of our budget. I would also prefer to do such a conversion on a hardtop body as I think it would make better use of the space inside as a camper. I really like the idea though of being able to sleep in the car. I think you have limited your resale market if you have a hardtop-pop top for sale also. Although I suppose you could on-sale to someone contemplating the same sort of trip.
As long as I, 1. Actually do the trip, and 2. Do it in my own Defender i'll be really happy. :D I'm just glad I've managed to get kerry on board!!:cool:

Cheers

Nino.

[cripesamighty]

You can always go a little more agricultural if you're looking for robust. The NVH levels on the other hand may need some fettling.

Land Rover Defender, 110, Perentie, Landcruiser, Patrol, Hilux | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Mount Barker Area - Echunga | 1050677171 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/echunga/cars-vans-utes/land-rover-defender-110-perentie-landcruiser-patrol-hilux/1050677171)

[Benz]

Our current set up with the tent is quite tiring to live with on the road.
Camp set up and pack down simply takes too long. Also cooking on the tail gate is a pain with the draws being there. Forgetting to get something out before you have started to cook can prove to be a huge pain in the back-side.
We have been living with it for 15 months now and it is really starting to get to us.

This could be fixed with a roof top tent I guess but we would still have to change our canopy set up. It's far from theft proof, while this isn't a problem in safe old Australia, I think it might be less then ideal in Africa, the middle east or South America.

The 130 does need a bit of work too.

I agree the td5 is more then up to traveling around the world but a recent scare we had with water kind of put us off electronically managed engines. When that little orange check engine light comes on it's a little scary. The carnet saving of an older car also sounds appealing.

I guess most of all we want something we can semi live IN if we have to.

At the end of a long crappy day the last thing I want to do is cook outside in the weather and then unfold my roof top tent which is still damp from condensation, then trying to get some sleep on the mattress which has started to fester with mould.

This has happened a few times while traveling Australia.
It kind of takes the shine off things.

And yes a ex-army hard top would be the easiest source of a older hard top. I would try and spent a little less then 18 grand on one though....

I wouldn't be looking at buying anything until at least next year (unless something irresistible comes up)
I'm just thinking out loud at this point.

[Leyland1980]

The carnet saving of an older car also sounds appealing.

In my experience it is possible to be somewhat creative with values for the purpose of carnets.