Disc Brakes

[101 Ron]

Got this today.
Got home at 4.00pm
This is as far is I got.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/859.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/2012berryball014_zpsecc1ac56.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/860.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/2012berryball015_zps863f6617.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/861.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/2012berryball016_zps6fab76ac.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/07/766.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/2012berryball017_zpsf17f2830.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/07/767.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/2012berryball018_zps862f292c.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/07/768.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/2012berryball019_zpse5c15aa7.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/857.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/2012berryball020_zps977f01cd.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/826.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/2012berryball021_zps5b1a0b78.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/858.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/2012berryball022_zps06365f2f.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

To those who may follow.
This is what I know so far.
The 4 pot caliper is a Zeus special, but I have heard it is a copy of a Volvo caliper with landrover pistons fitted.
Disc pads supplied are Borg and Beck BBP1011.
The best I could come up with in local numbers is DB521 which fits the rear of a E type Jag and a few other things.
The caliper set up reminds me of the rear pads in the back of the 130 defender which I used to own, but just abit smaller.
The pads are pined in the same way as a defender too.
I have not read the instructions yet.
It all looks straight forward so far, but how the disc is mounted on the hub looks interesting, time will tell.
I have heard stories some grinding and hand fitting may be required, but I cannot see where yet.

[101 Ron]

Local replacement disc pads, just for plain jane soft items is 75 dollars a set.
What I am expecting is this.
Brake performance to be about the same.
The reason is the 101 drum brakes are self energising and therefore take less pedal effort than a disc brake set up.
The disc calipers being four piston/pot items should give plenty of piston area for the brake fluid to act on, and so at the end of the day could work out equal.
The disc pads are smallish for the size of the disc, which is a reasonable size , but is not a ventilated design.
There is little room for anything inside a 101s wheel with that big CV joint housing sitting in the middle so most likely a ventilated type disc wouldnt fit.

The main reason for going for disc brakes on a 101 is not so much braking performance, but reduced mantainace.
101 drum brakes when adjusted correctly and in good order ,work OK.
keeping the brakes in good order and adjusted is the hard part.
Front brakes on a 101 need regular adjustment and shoe wear tends to be high.
It should be noted only 1mm of wear is allowed on 101 brake drums.
The hub oil seals tend to be a bit touchy, the twin front wheel cylinders are a low point in the brake system, so the alloy cylinders tend to pit and leak if water enters the system with creek crossings etc.
The disc set up should be more self cleaning of dirt, mud and water.
Ron

[101 Ron]

Zeus 101 Disc Brake Kit (http://www.yican.com.au/6Stud/6stud.html)


One issue is access to the plugs to fill up the CV joint housings.
The caliper makes access hard and instead of easy square lug plugs which you undo with a shifter, Allen head plugs are supplied.

[stuee]

Edit* Turns out it was worth getting up at 3am. Just checked again and the money's gone out for shipping :D Around $115 which is very reasonable.

Does it look like the kit will fit without any mods to the calipers to get the wheels on?

[101 Ron]

The more I look at it, the more I see everything is a very tight fit.
Looking at the way its done and why its done a certain way.
Its a wonder it was ever worked out at all.
Disc brakes on this wheel stud pattern is only usually done on 20 inch wheels and not 16 inch.( the big hub and big CV with small wheel ID)
Mine cost about $1300 aust which I though was good and many thanks to another Aulro member to organise it all for me.
The instructions are not very clear on the bolt up of the disc assy to the to landrover hub using the special threaded studs supplied.
I am thinking if a brass 90 degree fitting can be screwed in the CV housing oil level plug hole to improve access , as my CVs do leak a little bit.
I didnt allow for the need to purchase new hub oil seals so the idea of mine to get this all fitted up and done this weekend will not be happening.
I purchase my hub oil seals from AJ as he supplies a good quality double lip affair which is much better than anything I can purchase locally and that will take a few working days to happen.
I also have another problem which is normal for 101s these days is the top shock rubber bushes aging and flogging out.
AJ can not supply the standard items anymore.
New ones can be made in a lathe from solid rubber or ones for TK series bedford??? fitted.
The good news is AJ can do polyuathane replacements at a price ( I think its worth it) which should last longer.
I will go as far as I can this weekend with it all.

[101 Ron]

According to the Aulro member who was dealing with Zeus for me, found they were slow to deal with.
We waited for the parts to be made despite the fact we were told the brake kits were in stock ready to go.
All the main parts are CNC machined from solid .

[101 Ron]

Discs are 12.5mm new with a wear limit of 11mm.
The 101s original wheel studs will need to come out.
They are pressed in and then the area around the back of the stud is swaged/pressed so they dont come lose at manufacture.

[stuee]

Pics! Then post up the easy way to do everything once your done!

:D:D:D

[Sitec]

Watching this thread with interest... Always thought there was limited room behind a std 101 wheel.... I always wanted to see a huge disk and calliper on mine but there never was the room... Saw these wheels on a 101 and think they look ok tho.....

[101 Ron]

Back of 101 hub
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/842.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/001-29_zpsf04f8010.jpg.html)
This shows the factory pressing in and rolling in of metal to hold standard wheel stud
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/843.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/002-27_zps87664a1e.jpg.html)
This shows standard wheel stud removed.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/844.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/003-26_zpsbbd86576.jpg.html)
I used a No2 thor copper hammer to knock them out.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/845.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/004-30_zpsae1d3501.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

You must find a solid and hard flat surface.
In my case I used a flat area on the back of my vice.
I covered it in a layer of white rag as it is extremely important that the back surface of the hub is not damaged while hitting out the stud.
It takes some very hard hits of the copper hammer to remove the stud.
You must hit everything squarely and carefully.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/840.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/005-25_zps8c3c1b26.jpg.html)
This is the hub after the stud is removed......notice the rolled in metal which is now broken out.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/841.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/008-15_zps17fa1b3b.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

This is the new stud which needs to be fitted.
the new stud has a shoulder on it.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/836.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/007-20_zpsbc1b7886.jpg.html)
It fits this way around.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/837.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/010-15_zps9f060413.jpg.html)
The back six flat spots of the hub must be very carefully and lightly filed free of any high spots.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/838.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/011-12_zps3deece08.jpg.html)
Use a large fine tooth file....remember high spots only.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/839.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/012-12_zps1ad83c75.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

You will need plenty of Loctite for these new studs and use plenty of it.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/832.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/015-7_zps8477252f.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/833.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/014-7_zps08b13d6f.jpg.html)
You must use the 101s wheel nuts to fit the new studs.
I found the thread on my wheel nuts had closed up with use on the tapered part of it and they need to be cleaned up thread wise so they would spin easily on the new stud threads.
you will need a 16x 1.5 tap to do this.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/834.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/016-7_zpsd2c95cb8.jpg.html)
Use the loctite on clean threads and fit the disc and adaptor to the 101 hub by evenly threading in the new studs doing the last bit of tighting evenly from stud to stud.
You must work quickly before the loctite hardens.
You use 2 of the cleaned up 101 wheel nuts locked together to turn the new studs.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/835.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/017-6_zps41f3fe82.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

You will need 2 x 1/1/16 spanners or 2x 27mm spanners of good quality to lock together the wheel nuts and thread them in the the disc and adaptor.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/830.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/018-9_zpsc8f8a9ba.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/831.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/019-5_zpsbc54c1fa.jpg.html)

[stuee]

Great posts Ron! Will come in helpful when I get mine.

[101 Ron]

This is a trial fitting of the caliper mounting plate.
The surface it is bolted to should be cleaned up.
Zeus say to throw away the original spring washers and just loctite the bolts that hold it.
It must be remembered those bolt holes go though into the CV housing and the threads must be oil tight, so loctite is a good idea.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/825.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/022-5_zpsc532e59f.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/826.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/2012berryball021_zps5b1a0b78.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

The standard CV oil level plug is removed.
A trial fitting of the caliper needs to take place.
The top lug on the caliper needs metal removed for it to fit and the bolt hole to line up.
A 8mm allen key with a ball end is very helpful in doing up the caliper bolts.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/822.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/029-2_zps9dcab216.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/823.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/026-5_zps40a22078.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/824.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/027-2_zps04d2aa81.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

I marked what was needed to be removed with a texta and used a die grinder with a tunsten carbide cutter to remove the metal.
The difference between a caliper with metal removed and not removed is this.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/820.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/028-2_zps7fffb64d.jpg.html)

The Zeus supplied plugs for the oil level needs a M55 star drive to fit it.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/821.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/024-4_zpscf4f72d6.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/819.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/039-2_zpsaadbb7d0.jpg.html)
The above is the capiler on the RHS being test fitted after removing metal fron the top lug.
After filling the CV hub with fresh oil and fitting the caliper for good access to that filler plug is imposible without removing the caliper.
If you look at the above on the front of the CV housing there is a flat area just above the ball joint stub arm.
I am thinking this would be a good place to drill a 11/32 hole, and tap it to 1/8 BSP and make a new oil level /filler plug.
I have noticed over the years 101 CV housings tend to be leaky.

[101 Ron]

Disc/hub and caliper trial fitted on LHS
I will have no new hub oil seals untill about Wednesday, so all of this is just checking things out.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/816.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/033-2_zps06a100c3.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/817.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/030-2_zpsbd5d022c.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/818.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/032-2_zps5f10b21c.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

Note that the pads are a snap to replace and the caliper does not need to come off.
Note the disc can be replaced with disturbing the wheel studs and disc adaptor plate.
The following show the wheel in place.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/812.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/035-2_zps26eea133.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/813.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/037-1_zps0e59c1cb.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/814.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/036-1_zpsd4f190ab.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/815.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/034-2_zps271abda7.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

My wheels are slightly wider than standard, but the inside measurements are the same as a normal 101 wheel.
The tyres fitted are wider than 900x16 bar treads and over hang the rim slightly more than normal.
This trial fit up was without supplied wheel spacer fitted which replaces the now missing brake drum.........so the above pics show the wheel rim slightly more in board than normal.
With my slightly wider rubber I will need to fit the spacers.
If you are a show off with imported spoked wide wheels the spacers will not be needed.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/808.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/038-1_zps0b2da054.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

I find this a good bit of kit to fill up the C/V joints and it will be needed even more when I add new smaller C/V oil level/filler plugs.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/807.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/025-3_zps97a9f2f6.jpg.html)
All in all it looks good.
I ran a dial guage on the LHS disc fitted to the vehicle and got 10 thou all up run out ...........I dont khow what standard disc rotor specs are ?
The adaptor bolts on the back of the hub and thats why you must be so carefull with the surfaces on the back of the hub, or excessive run out could occur.
The only draw back to the whole thing is the access to that oil level plug.

[cookey]

acceptable run out for 275mm disc is .002-.004"
.010" seems a tad excessive

cookey

[Sitec]

I'm guessing there is a good reason you've not tried this, but would the calliper support plate bolt on 'one hole further round' lifting the calliper above the filler plug, or do the calliper bolts then hit the swivel housing?

[stuee]

On the same topic as Sitec, how hard is it to remove the caliper? Looks reasonably straight forward, two bolts and its off, or is it a case of having to loctite them up afterwards? A bit excessive to check an oil level I guess but I thought the oil weeped through from the main housing when needed so should almost self regulate or is that not how it works at all :(. I'll have to go back and look at my parts manual, I may be confusing things again.

Do those brake pipes come with the kit or did you make them up? If you have to make them up and caliper removal became a regular thing would flexible hoses be suitable in that application?

[Sleepy]

Great thread Ron. Thanks for going to the effort of putting it together. I don't have the cash to do this yet but "its on the list!"

What life span are you hoping for out of the discs?
Are replacement discs available?

[stuee]

Great thread Ron. Thanks for going to the effort of putting it together. I don't have the cash to do this yet but "its on the list!"

What life span are you hoping for out of the discs?
Are replacement discs available?

They keep a few sets of discs on hand most of the time I was told when I ordered mine. I couldn't get a solid answer out of how many km/miles a set will get but they kept saying they were quite hard wearing.

I was tempted to get a spare set of discs when I ordered mine but not sure on the km's I'll be doing yet and still a long way of finishing mine so will put the money elsewhere. I also told myself that when I need new discs for the front it will be a good time to get a set for the rear, just to save on postage and all, at least that's what Ill tell the missus :twisted:

[101 Ron]

I'm guessing there is a good reason you've not tried this, but would the calliper support plate bolt on 'one hole further round' lifting the calliper above the filler plug, or do the calliper bolts then hit the swivel housing?


I looked at that. it must go where it is.
The only reason the caliper must be ground away slightly to fit is a stuff up in the CNC machining of the caliper support bracket.
I found a answer to the oil filler problem.
Will post pics.
The caliper is easy to remove as is the brake pipe going to it.
Most of the work to access the level/filler plug would be removing the wheel and wheel tread plate so the caliper could be moved away.

[101 Ron]

On the same topic as Sitec, how hard is it to remove the caliper? Looks reasonably straight forward, two bolts and its off, or is it a case of having to loctite them up afterwards? A bit excessive to check an oil level I guess but I thought the oil weeped through from the main housing when needed so should almost self regulate or is that not how it works at all :(. I'll have to go back and look at my parts manual, I may be confusing things again.

Do those brake pipes come with the kit or did you make them up? If you have to make them up and caliper removal became a regular thing would flexible hoses be suitable in that application?

Brake pipes come with the kit.
I was going to use a pipe bender, but found they bend easily by hand.
I am going the other way with the calipers and using anti seize on the bolts.
The spring washers are working well on the allen head bolts supplied.
Because if is a bit difficult to get square on to the allen head bolts you wouldnt want to loctite them or have them rust in place.
The caliper will not need to come off again except for hub oil seal/wheel bearing or Disc changes.
Pads are changed with the caliper bolted up.
I have a solution for the C/V joint oil filler, no need to remove the caliper to check the oil.

[101 Ron]

First up today after the mothers day kissy/kissy stuff, I though while the front of the 101 is easy to get at, look at the poly shock bushes I got from AJ.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/759.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/005-8_zps8d9e57f5.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/760.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/002-12_zpsf831d235.jpg.html)
I found the poly bushes were not going to let me fit them without taking material from the bushes themselves, as they must be very slight bigger than the standard bush and have less give.
Fitting the split pin back in was not a option as is.
I have had trouble with the front shocker bushes with the 101 before and really wanted the poly bushes for longer life.
AJ told me when purchasing the bushes he threaded the shocker bush shaft some how and eliminated the split pin set up.
I have tapped a 14mmx2 thread in the centre of the top shocker bush supports.
I have to buy the bolts yet.
A bolt and simple washer will allow adjustment of pressure and tightness of the poly bushes which are better than the rubber items to be done this way.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/761.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/004-10_zps3d47d656.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/762.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/006-9_zps22b908bd.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

After not being able to go any futher with the shock bushes I decide to look at the C/V joint oil filler/ level access problem again.
Just above the stub arms on the front face of the C/V housing is a flat area and has reasonable access.
this part of the C/V is very thick as the steering stub arms are designed to bolt up there .
It fact the bolts for the steering stub arms screw into holes threaded right though the C/V housing..........it is possible to check the oil at a lower level by removing one of these bolts.
I drilled a 11/32 hole above the steering stub arm though the C/V housing at the correct level.
The steering rod ends need to be removed to do this.
I tapped a 1/8 BSP thread into it.
I had 2 new brass 1/8 BSP plugs at home which I fitted.
It is possible to refit the standard 3/8 gas plugs if you want to.
I chose the smaller size as I wanted to minimise any swarf going into the inside of the C/V.
Drilling for the standard plug is best left if the C/V is ever removed from the vehicle.
The oil will still run out if full and my little oil pumper bottle will have no trouble filling the C/V housing this way, even with the wheels fitted.

[101 Ron]

RHS......this shows the hole and a small magnetic pick up tool I used to remove and stop swarf going inside the housing.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/756.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/010-4_zps79c742bd.jpg.html)

RHS with brass tapered thread plug in place.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/757.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/008-6_zps7d61d9b7.jpg.html)

This is the LHS, one rod end is completely removed and the other closest to the plug is a jar and slightly off to the left as it was a pain to remove it, but it gave me enough room the drill the hole.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/758.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/011-2_zps75e71d91.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

After doing the above I decided I could fit the supplied star drive plugs into the standard oil level/ filler holes.
The problem is the standard plugs are tapered thread and the replacement plugs are parallel thread.
This means the replacement /supplied plugs are a lose fit in the threaded holes.
I could only get them to grab firmly in the old filler hole after using alot of thread tape and loctite.
Refitting the standard plugs may be a better option, I think the square head may just clear the caliper.

[101 Ron]

I tried the spacer plates onto the hubs today..........they are to keep wheel spacing standard without brake drums.
The wheel stud holes are perfect, but the centre hole for the hub centre is plasma cut.
the hole is slightly too small and had to be opened up slightly with my little die grinder .
One other point is the spacer plate has a chamfer on one side of the hub hole.
that chamfer should be fitted facing the hub.
Ron ........Bludger Exordinare........free lance hero.

[cookey]

After doing the above I decided I could fit the supplied star drive plugs into the standard oil level/ filler holes.
The problem is the standard plugs are tapered thread and the replacement plugs are parallel thread.
This means the replacement /supplied plugs are a lose fit in the threaded holes.
I could only get them to grab firmly in the old filler hole after using alot of thread tape and loctite.
Refitting the standard plugs may be a better option, I think the square head may just clear the caliper.

Hi Ron,
on my Series disc conversion I swap the swivel housings left to right.
That way the filler plug is relocated to the front of the vehicle leaving lots of room for access.
(my calipers mount at the rear of the wheel)
cookey

[101 Ron]

Hi Ron,
on my Series disc conversion I swap the swivel housings left to right.
That way the filler plug is relocated to the front of the vehicle leaving lots of room for access.
(my calipers mount at the rear of the wheel)
cookey

Its a great idea cookey, but the problem is with the 101 the steering arms bolt on the side faces of the C/V and not the top as on other 4wds.
This means to reverse the C/Vs would involve drilling accurately and threads the eight bolts for the steering arms and plugging the old threaded holes.
The two holes I have done in situ should work OK and can be easily enlarged.

[101 Ron]

I got the bolts today.
This is what the poly shockasorber bushes look like held in place with a bolt.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/650.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/001-10_zps1f6c637f.jpg.html)
Hope for the hub seals tomorrow.

[101 Ron]

AJ came though on time with the hub oil seals I needed and a few other things.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/618.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/001-10_zpsb55dafe9.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

wheel bearings on a 101 should be packed with grease as it takes a while for oil the travel though from the C/V joint housing.
Dont forget to lube the lip of the hub seal.
The last lot of hub seals I fitted I knocked all the way in.
Looking at the latest ones supplied I have knocked them in flush with the edge of the hub housing.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/617.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/002-12_zps128896f1.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

I finished topping off the C/Vs though the new oil level / filler hole ,it works OK and is easy enough to get too, but the little STP hand pump pictured earlier must be used if you dont want a mess.
Each C/V takes about 750mls of oil.

This is RHS hub and spacer plate fitted.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/616.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/003-12_zpsa438a7db.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

This is the clearence to the LHS rod ends with the spacer plate fitted.
It is exactly the same as with the drum brakes, so no clearence problems even with my bigger rubber fitted to the wheels.
I spacer plate should be used as the wheel stud threads will be the correct lenght for the special wheel nuts that hold the wheel tread plate.
If used without, the special nuts could bottom out on the threaded wheel studs.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/615.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/101%20Ron%202/005-8_zps0c61e376.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

Its a bit hard to bleed the brakes on a 101 by yourself , so not all the air was out of the system when I went for a quick drive tonight.
The discs and pads need to bed in too.
I done a few hard stops on a quiet street.
They are OK and work about as well as the standard drum brakes so far.
The discs come in hard at first, but lack that final little bit of nip in on that last half turn of the wheel before the vehicle stops compared to correctly adjusted drums.
I ran out of time tonight to bleed correctly and test and bed in the brakes more.
Pulling up at home I hopped out and check for leaks and any stuff ups I could have done......all OK, but i was supprize how hot the discs were.
Time will tell.

[101RRS]

I wonder what it is like to have a disk brake kit to put on their 101 :).

[101 Ron]

My feelings on the whole kit is good.
It is straight forward to fit, except the instructions supplied dont detail how to remove the standard wheel studs.
Pads are easy to change.
The Bleeder is easy to reach and points in the correct direction.
The disc is large diameter and reports over seas is saying

[101 Ron]

I wonder what it is like to have a disk brake kit to put on their 101 :).

You should be the next one tell us all about it.
I was waiting for you to chime in when I made the crack about a show off with imported spoked wheels.

[101 Ron]

The discs and pads are slowly wearing in.
In a nut shell the discs work no better than adjusted drum brakes.( the disc is well hidden inside the wheel and the wheel has no ventilation holes.........garrycols wide spoked wheels will be a major advantage )
I have noticed heat disspersion is no better than the drum brakes.
Four emergency stops in a row is enough to get the discs very hot which is about the same as what the drum front brakes could do.
It should be noted and as mention in another thread in this section that most of a 101s braking is done by the front brakes in normal unloaded use.

What does improve is the front and back brakes appear to be working together better as a set and the vehicle is easier to do a emergency stop and keep the vehicle under control in a straight line.
While the discs appear to work abit harder on the first part of the stopping roll out the last part of the stop is less effective than well adjusted drums.
This effect makes it very hard with the tyres I am running to lock the front wheels on tar or concrete surfaces which is a good thing.

I mention well adjusted drums.........the discs will perform better than the drums when the adjustment is out a bit or the shoes are worn low etc.
I found with the drum front brakes I was doing front brake adjustments all the time to keep the brakes performing well.
This is no longer needed.
I still have not got the brake pedal were it should be on the first application of the pedal..........either I still have a little bit of air in the system, or the pedal needs to move futher to push the caliper pistons out compared to the drums.
It should be noted as personal choice or prerference I use silicone brake fluid in all my vehicles.
My 101 runs standard brake master cylinder and booster and both are in good order.

[101RRS]

There was never any issue with how well the drums worked it was the wild ride that you often got in an emergency - I adjusted my drums 6 months ago and they were worse than before I adjusted them and have been too lazy to do them again.

When I first put my 101 on the road I was following Ron just after dark and spotted a wombat in Ron's lights and the wombat just sat there while Ron went past it - as soon as he was past and the wombat was in my lights it decided to move and couldn't decided which way to go so I just put on the brakes - first serve was to the right towards the wombat and then all on its own the 101 decided to serve left towards a tree an steep bank - as speed washed off control was regained just before the tree and all was well and the wombat just waddled off into the bush - after that I drive with extra caution and try to keep the brakes adjusted up but they do not stay in adjustment for long.

Disk brakes should solve erratic braking issues. I have had drum braked landies since 1978 and the 101 is the worst to keep the brakes "in tune".

Garry

[Mick_Marsh]

Thanks for the tutorial and thread Ron.
I might invest in a set or two myself.
Do you think there is any advantage in putting discs on the back as well or would you agree the back brakes are used so little it wouldn't be worth it?

[350RRC]

..................... 'Disc pads supplied are Borg and Beck BBP1011.
The best I could come up with in local numbers is DB521 which fits the rear of a E type Jag and a few other things.'...............

Hi Ron,

I have a RRC with solid rotors and Mintex pads fitted. (From Paddocks).

If constant pressure is applied to the brake pedal it pulls up harder and harder as the rotors heat up. Much better than any other brand I've tried. Ordering a spare set today.

They're only about 7 quid for each end. :)

cheers, DL

[101 Ron]

Thanks for the tutorial and thread Ron.
I might invest in a set or two myself.
Do you think there is any advantage in putting discs on the back as well or would you agree the back brakes are used so little it wouldn't be worth it?




I just dont know.
AJ fitted discs all round on a 101 for a customer...( I think it is a member on this site) and he fitted a extra booster to the brake system too.
My rear brakes give little trouble compared to the front, so I think it is a personal decision if you want bragging rights or not.
I dont think the 101 will pull up harder will discs on the rear.
Four wheel disc will work better if a improved or extra booster is fitted.

[DODGE]

As others have said great tutorial ron. looks like a great setup.

Cheers Gaz

[stuee]

I got half of my kit a week ago but still waiting for the hubs and discs. Quality does look good so far. Don't want to start any work until I have everything though.

[101RRS]

So your the person who held up my delivery :). I ordered early March when they supposedly had two left in stock - however not received until mid May - nearly 2 1/2 months later - had to see how long it would have taken if they were not in stock.

The Zeus product seems good, pricing is good and their shipping costs would have to be the best around but their communications and customer service would have to be one of the worst around. They are very reluctant to answer emails and as a result phone calls (plenty) are required.

However as Ron has indicated in his tutorial and previous installer found - the product works so at the end of the day I guess that is all that counts.

Garry

[stuee]

So your the person who held up my delivery :). I ordered early March when they supposedly had two left in stock - however not received until mid May - nearly 2 1/2 months later - had to see how long it would have taken if they were not in stock.


After I PM'd you I called them to find that the last two had been sold. They put on another run to cover the sudden demand, I gather there were 5-6 sets that were ordered from Aus. I was told it would be ready a week after Easter or so but still waiting for everything to be sent. Have you received all your parts? They sent mine in two packages but still yet to receive the second package. Forgot to call them last night in case it was a billing issue or something.

[101RRS]

The last two were supposedly mine but I think I was gazzumped. About a month after I had placed the order for the last two I was told they were still waiting for parts. These things happen but they seem reluctant to keep the customer up to date.

The split the order as they have a cheap rate for packages under certain weight. Mine were disks and wheel spacers in one package and calipers, pads and mounting hardware in another - and their shipping was cheap. They use a best price on the day system and I think there is a "wait-listed" system used as well to save money as some packages arrived in a few days while the last one took nearly 3 weeks (confirmed on the package docs).

All packages were billed at the same time.

Garry

[stuee]

Thanks Garry. I think I have only been billed for one delivery so far, I've paid £75, but when it was estimated around it was around £170. Hopefully they are not waiting for parts for my kit as when I last spoke on the phone it was all ready to go.

[101RRS]

Hopefully they are not waiting for parts for my kit as when I last spoke on the phone it was all ready to go.

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

[stuee]

Ron, did you ever bother painting the spacer plate or hub face to stop them rusting together? I see rust forming on my hub face and have also seen bit of rust form on one of the caliper mounts. Most of the bits its cosmetic only, but it would be nice for the spacer plate not to fuse with the hub.

Also any secrets for closing the lock washer on the outer hub nut. I found that to be a bugger of a job.

[101 Ron]

No I didn't paint the spacer,but my hub was painted.
mine has not rusted because my vehicle is in use and the brakes get hot.
I don't intend to remove the spacer so I am not to worried if it gets rusty.
My 101 has a anti rust system which deposits oil on most surfaces.....the C/V joint.
If you find a very large screw driver you should be able to get the tip of the large screw driver behind the lock tab and lever the lock tab outwards towards the outer lock nut by using the inner edge of the hub as a fulcrum on the large screw driver blade.( should get it about half way bent around)
That will start the lock tab on its way out wards.
I then find a metal drift with say a 4mm dia flat end on it and hammer the drift onto the tab trying to get under/behind it to finish the bending of the tab onto the lock nut.
Using the drift makes for a neat job finishing off bending the lock tab on to the lock nut.

[101 Ron]

What I did find was the acid off my fingers did very quickly cause a surface rust on the disc which very quickly disappeared with use.

[spongie]

Thanks guys really useful posts. Myself and a local 101 owner are contemplating disc brakes on our vehicles and your experience will be so useful to us!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Guys

Just to let you know that cookey has sourced a new calliper for his Series LR disk brake conversion, the good part about this calliper is that the calliper housing is less bulky so clearance issues are less of a problem, in addition there are two callipers from the same manufacturer both 4 pot on the same mounting plate but the pistons on one are 47mm and the other 35mm. This makes 4 wheel ventilated disks an easier conversion without the problems of fore-aft balance.

The size of the caliper may be useful for the 101 conversions.

Watch this space.

Diana

[Sitec]

Whilst under the 101 today, my mind was thinking brake upgrades... Ron, when you fitted the disks to the front, did you then shift he front back plates and wider shoes to the back? Just wondering if that would be of any benefit....?

[101 Ron]

I don't think you have to swap anything around, I think ,but not certain the wider shoes fit straight on the rear .
I think I have done that when I first got my 101.
At the end of the day.......no gain.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I don't think you have to swap anything around, I think ,but not certain the wider shoes fit straight on the rear .
I think I have done that when I first got my 101.
At the end of the day.......no gain.The backing plates need to centre the rear shoes at 1 1/4" while the front shoes need to be at 1 1/2", the problem is that the shoes for the 3" are "double leading" while the rears are "leading-trailing" so without manufacturing your own backing plates and leading-trailing 3" shoes it can't be done. Better to spend your time making rear disks.

[101 Ron]

I must have been thinking of the brake drums.
Front to rear they are different P/Ns, but still interchange.
The rear drum is exactly the same as the front , but is not machined for the extra width of the fronts, but the surface of the rear drum is still good enough to run the wider front shoes on.
At the end of the day no gain.

[101 Ron]

Why do we need to make disc conversions when someone else has done one and it is proven and works on both front and rear ?
I think the UK price to be very good.
The price of a disc rotor replacement of a late model Jap 4WD would cover the price of the Zeus disc brake kit.
As this thread proves any problems with the Zeus kit can be worked around easily.
Not worth the effort to do it locally and until you look at the front of a 101 very closely you will realise it can only be done a certain way and clearences are very, very tight and standard Landrover calipers from other landrover models will not fit.
I think Zeus were very clever to work it all out in the first place and get it to work.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Ron

I thought we were talking about the rear brakes just here?

The rears are very much easier than the front becaue of the lack of a swivel and there are numerous calipers with lower profile and higher mounting locations making ideal choices with the option of using ventilated rotors and much greater range of coumpounds than the LR oferings.

Diana

[101 Ron]

It could be possible to swap over the whole thing from the old front drum brakes to the rear and make them double leading shoe.........why.
I am finding like on my last weekend away on dry loose dirt roads towing about a tonne of trailer I was getting rear wheel lock up.......don't need more rear brakes.
Braking rolling rearwards with the double leading shoes on the rear would be interesting too.

[101 Ron]

Ron

I thought we were talking about the rear brakes just here?

The rears are very much easier than the front becaue of the lack of a swivel and there are numerous calipers with lower profile and higher mounting locations making ideal choices with the option of using ventilated rotors and much greater range of coumpounds than the LR oferings.

Diana

If the front are non ventilated, the better brakes on the rear wouldn't be a good idea.........Lock up ???????? , but matching you Zeus both front and rear with booster........better ???????????

[Lotz-A-Landies]

If the front are non ventilated, the better brakes on the rear wouldn't be a good idea.........Lock up ???????? , but matching you Zeus both front and rear with booster........better ???????????Or having ventilated front and rear with 60:40 front:rear bias even better. That's what Gary is now doing for the series rovers. Not sayng he's interested in doing 101, but only whats possible.

For example the Zeuss kit for the Series rover are also solids and require changing the wheel rims, Gary is leaving the standard wheels.

[Sitec]

Knowing the size of 101 wheels, drums and swivel housings, yeah you are spot on Ron! Best described as 'busy'! That was my original reason for going down the 19.5" rims, and I'll probably still seriously consider it once its on the road, registered and undergoing the diesel conversion. A guy in the UK had a Zeus kit that's new for sale but he was only £100 less than the new kit direct form them so I didn't bother as I'd still like to go down the big disk and calliper on the front.. It'd be nice to have the time to actually just get to the 101 ATM but Hay Season depicts my time elsewhere!!

[DasLandRoverMan]

Damned inconsiderate farmers, saying that, in my years of working on farm equipment I became convinced that farmers should not be allowed tools.

It's much easier just to fix stuff than have to sort out their bodges first.
One of my favourites was being presented with a bobcat that needed a wheel removing to have a new tyre fitted.

Things would have been a lot easier if when (a few months earlier) several of the wheel nuts had pulled through the guy hadn't proceeded to weld the wheel onto the hub, instead of buying a new rim.
Still, cost him a new rim, a hub, and a few hours time to sort it all.
Same guy ran his Prado with a dud starter for 2 months as he lived up a hill and refused to cough up £300 for a new one.

In terms of rear discs, I quite like the calliper setup on Disco 2 and 3's.
the Disco 3 calliper setup has potential as it all fits in a 16" rim, whilst the handbrake setup on the back means there's potential for a decent size of hub in the middle.
Probably still end up machining custom discs, but it keeps some things standard Land Rover parts?

[bed_bug]

350 mikes on Saturday brought me a Zeus kit to play with. But, instead of bolting it on, I took it all to bits. The calliper casting shape looks to be lifted from another 4 pot design. I think the original callipers were fatter and worked with a vented disk design. Being redeveloped to run with the Zeus Disc. I can't see why a similar set up wouldn't work on the rears. So I've borrowed a rear axle today and later in the week I might see how it would look.

[101RRS]

Deleted

[bed_bug]

Hey Garry thanks , I'll pop the axle back and continue on the derivative calliper hunt.

Always let me know If I can help,you guys with UK purchases and freight forwarding.

Pic :- Possible narrowed calliper of a Daimler

80459

[101 Ron]

I have a problem.
My Zeus brake discs are cracked.
I was changing a choke cable and crawling under the 101 and then noticed
Is that a big crack in the brake rotor.
It turns out both discs and the cracks has spread from almost every bolt hole used to hold the disc onto the hub.
I cannot see anything that will stop these cracks spreading and leading to sudden a catastrophic failure of the front brakes.
Be warned!
I took many pics but only one came out due to reflections from the flash or bad lighting under the 101.
The exchange rate to the UK is poor at present and I don't own a credit card paypal type thing.
Could get new discs made here, but my 101 would be off the road for a long time.
I have treated the brakes well knowing I had no spare discs.
They have not been cooked.
The discs have been good until now with no wear showing on the disc itself.
I have been extremely happy with the Zeus conversion.
The biggest crack has travelled 1/3 of the way though the disc radius.
This is a set back
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/398.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0361_zpst4l25cdq.jpg.html)
The above is one of the smaller cracks.
Check your Zeus brake discs !
Ron

[Homestar]

Ron, have you contacted Zeus about this to see if they have had other issues like this? Is the disk a custom job or do they source them from something else?

[101 Ron]

I will have to get a hold of Zeus.
The rotors are specials made by them.
I suspect the material the rotors are made from is a little bit too brittle.
The disc rotor is a fairly simple straight forward thing to manufacture locally, but the problem is it would take my 101 off the road sometime and it is my only wheels on full time rego.
If I get something sorted from Zeus, should look into converting the rear brakes too.
The dollar conversion is very poor to do this currently and I don't have the money or the plastic/PayPal to do this.
I purchased the original Zeus brakes via Garrycol.
I will get it sorted, but don't have much time before the discs get near to breaking up.
I have not even worn out the supplied disc pads on those rotors yet.
The vehicle has seen little miles on those brakes.

The design of the rotor being a true disc form and shape should have a good thermal expansion without cracking.

[stuee]

Ron, when I ordered my disc brakes I was quoted 160 pounds a pair (back in 2013). They hinted they kept a few in stock. Ill keep a close eye on mine now, not that its getting any use without a steering box currently. If trying to contact Zeus do your self a favour and pick up the phone. Some emails were responded to overnight, other times I never got a response and had to call to chase things up. Thanks for the heads up on the issue though.

From 2013 email:

We carry some spare discs in stock although they are a long lived item and last many years (depending on driving conditions) replacement discs currently cost ?160 for a pair.

As a side note I never ordered any replacement rotors due to the long lived comment. Perhaps I should have...

edit* They currently list the kit in stock so you might have some luck getting spare rotors:
http://www.zeus.uk.com/index.php'dispatch=products.view&product_id=16

[rangieman]

Not good news boys . If i can help maybe a good friend of mine is in the brake game and has traveled to the land of the largest photo copier on many occasion to source manufacturers of rotors.
He has rotors made to his spec to a formula he is very happy with he also slots his rotors for road and race and on sells them with out any known failures to date .
To the nitty gritty stuff if any one has a spare rotor to pass on to me or are willing and competent at measuring i could maybe organise a run .
I should ring my friend and see if we can do this i guess but we really need a quantity as i dont think 6 to 10 one off rotors is a doable ;)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Maybe it's time to research the DBA catalogue for a comparable rotor.

It's what cookey had to do for his Series conversion. His parameters were a commonly available rotor that would be easy to acquire into the future although he still ended up having to machine out the internal drum to give him the needed clearance over the swivel housing.

[101 Ron]

There is no rotor that will replace the Zeus one.
New ones will have to be purchased from Zeus or made from stratch to spec.
I have been too busy to chase this.
I have somemore pics.

[101 Ron]

Should just be able to see the cracks
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/260.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0368_zps4cwe4ayy.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/261.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0366_zpsfuhmmkw0.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/262.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0367_zpsopmbfo8c.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/01/263.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0365_zps36vcifvb.jpg.html)

[rangieman]

There is no rotor that will replace the Zeus one.
New ones will have to be purchased from Zeus or made from stratch to spec.
I have been too busy to chase this.
I have somemore pics.

So how many bods in Aus are running the zeus Disc`s . I have spoken to my mate and he would like to know roughly how many want rotors and how many rotors roughly for a run.
Im sure we can get these A Lot cheaper than what you pay from the uk;)

[101 Ron]

I sent a Email to Zeus asking for some new disc rotors, and they have them in stock.
I am waiting on a price.
What is interesting Zeus appear to be releasing soon, up graded kits to all Landrover disc brake conversions.
I also so want to convert the rear brakes of the 101, they toll me to wait until the new improved kits are ready.
Ron

[stuee]

I sent a Email to Zeus asking for some new disc rotors, and they have them in stock.
I am waiting on a price.
What is interesting Zeus appear to be releasing soon, up graded kits to all Landrover disc brake conversions.
I also so want to convert the rear brakes of the 101, they toll me to wait until the new improved kits are ready.
Ron

Any hint as to what the upgrades are? Callipers which don't need bits cut out? Also did they have any comment or thoughts as to why your rotors have cracks? Maybe whoever assembled them torqued the bolts to high?


So how many bods in Aus are running the zeus Disc`s . I have spoken to my mate and he would like to know roughly how many want rotors and how many rotors roughly for a run.
Im sure we can get these A Lot cheaper than what you pay from the uk;)

While I'd be very keen if the prices are comparable to off the shelf rotors and postage to WA is reasonable, I think you can probably count the 101FC Zeus kits in Aus on your fingers. Then getting all of them to commit would be difficult, particularly if Ron's problem is unique - so that 6-10 figure you quoted might be all you get.

[grey_ghost]

Hi Ron,

I am reading this thread with interest. My 101 has front disks - and I would be interested in putting them on the rear also...

Cheers,
Grey Ghost

[350RRC]

Definitely no expert............. just a couple of observations.

The Allen bolts appear to be countersunk (?), Allen bolts are all generally hi-tensile (?).

Would it be possible that the combination of this, with the bolts torqued up, has caused the splits, rather than the disc material?

Remember that even a mild angle in any countersinking will act as a wedge as the disc (cast) heats up and expands against the tension of the bolts.

Remarkable that all the splits are around the bolts.

cheers, DL

[Lotz-A-Landies]

There is no rotor that will replace the Zeus one.
New ones will have to be purchased from Zeus or made from stratch to spec.
I have been too busy to chase this.
I have somemore pics.I would still research other makes of rotor. Take a look at the wilwood rotor catalogue, they have a variety of flat rotors. Wilwood High-Performance Disc Brakes - Rotors (http://www.wilwood.com/Rotors/RotorListLanding.aspx)

[101 Ron]

The latest news on my disc brakes is.
Zeus is giving me a good deal on replacement discs and appear to be looking after me.
I also so have another disc brake kit coming too which I intend to fit to the rear of my 101 Land rover.
The exchange rates currently is still viable compared to doing anything locally.............read of the price in English pounds and just slightly more than double it you will get the price in Aussie dollars.

[101 Ron]

The biggest problem has been communication as Zeus has been swapping over to optic fibre and E mails have not been working well.
Direct calling late at night has been working better...(11 hour time difference)
Just got to sit back and wait for the goodies to arrive.
Zeus is going to shortly bring out a new version of the 101 disc brake set up.

[101 Ron]

The impression I get of the new 101 disc brake kit when released will be.
One piece disc rotor and hub adaptor instead of the bolt on disc rotor to the adaptor of the current set up.
That will reduce machining costs,stop any possible cracking of the disc like I have and reduce any possible disc rotor run out.
Doing things in one piece could save weight too.
As stated above I do not have any details of the new 101 disc set up coming, just impressions they gave me over the phone.
Ron

[101 Ron]

As a side note I keep a mainance log for my 101.
I have travelled just under 10,000 kms since fitting the disc kit.
( my 101 has a non standard kilometre speedo fitted)
I am still on the supplied disc pads and the discs themselves show no wear as the preivous pics show.
I am starting to think it could be a one off problem with the cracks.
Ron

[stuee]

Good to hear Ron. Did they speculate as to why you had cracks on your discs? Also be interesting to see how they facilitate a disc change on the new system if the hub adaptor and disc are one piece. It wouldnt be easy to separate the adaptor from hub of its anything like the current design.

[101 Ron]

This weekend I have been swapping over the front discs on my 101 Landrover after receiving all the bits from Zeus.
What did surprise me was when the spare discs arrived they came with the hub adaptor ring which are very heavy and increases freight greatly.
The only reason I could think of for this is they are machined as a unit to help keep things true and avoid any run out of the disc.
After stripping down the front brakes of my 101 and having the front hubs ect sitting on the bench of my garage, I realised it was better not to disturb the six special wheel studs that hold every thing together, as I don't have spares and if you check out the first few pages of this thread mine were well loctited in and I would damaged them getting them out.
This left the option of transferring the new discs from one hub adaptor ring to another.
That option turned out to be with problems too.
To remove the allen head bolts it took a socket head allen drive and a big 3/4 drive rattle gun to remove them.
The problem being they were so tight that a lot of the allen head bolts just sheared the allen drive in the head of the bolt.
A lot were drilled out and I did have spares as they were with the new hub and adaptors.
These bolts were way too tight and now I believe they were the cause of the original discs cracking.
Luckly I decided to go this way is I wouldn't have picked up the bolts being extremely tight on the new disc and adaptors.
All was assembled and tested and no problems found with run out after transferring the new discs to the old adaptors.
What was interesting is the old discs showed no wear and the original disc pads supplied by Zeus were refitted as they still had plenty of meat left on them.

[101 Ron]

Definitely no expert............. just a couple of observations.

The Allen bolts appear to be countersunk (?), Allen bolts are all generally hi-tensile (?).

Would it be possible that the combination of this, with the bolts torqued up, has caused the splits, rather than the disc material?

Remember that even a mild angle in any countersinking will act as a wedge as the disc (cast) heats up and expands against the tension of the bolts.

Remarkable that all the splits are around the bolts.

cheers, DL

You are perfectly correct.
The high tensile bolts must have less expansion as they are threaded into the big heavy and much cooler than the disc hub adaptor.
The expanding disc has no where to go expansion wise so it spreads and cracks at the disc bolt holes which are near the inner edge of the disc.
the crack starts at the bolt holes and travel to the inner radius of the disc and this in turns starts another crack travelling though the disc to the out side edge.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/666.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0406_zpslmttgxgh.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

New disc fitted to old hub and adaptor.
The allen head bolts were fitted with much reduced torque and a bit of Loctite.
I suspect the too tight bolts were the reason why my cracking problems so far have been one off.( but the new items supplied seemed to have the bolts way too tight as well.)
Reduced tension should also let the disc move just slightly as it expands and the less tension from the bolt will tend to spread its hole less too.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/665.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0404_zpsznxohuis.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

This picture is the hub adaptor and the original 101 landrover hub without the disc and the old Loctite being tapped/cleaned out of the threads.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/663.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0403_zpspvvmcfmb.jpg.html)

I use AJ for the hub oil seals as he supplies the original landrover ones which have a extra dust lip and are better than ones purchased from a bearing supplier.
AJ can still supply hub gaskets and hub nut locking plates.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/664.jpg (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/101Ron/media/ron%203/DSCN0405_zpsxenqpmou.jpg.html)

[101 Ron]

I had a quick look at fitting the Zeus disc kit I have too the rear of my 101 Landrover.
To do this I will have to make some new brake lines for the rear diff as the old ones will not line up for the disc calipers.( Zeus kits are designed for the front axle)
This will be no problem for me as I fabricate brake lines all the time at work and have the gear to double flare and bend the pipe ect.
I am not rushing into this as I have too many other things to fix on other vehicles I have and the rear drums are working well , especially with the discs fitted on the front.
So much so I am wondering if fitting them on the rear is going to improve any thing and the rear brakes wear little on the 101 as the fronts seem to do most of the work.
Zeus are definitely working on a better design of disc brake for the 101 Landrover .
If they go to a single piece design of hub adaptor and disc it will allow a much needed weight saving and get rid of the allen head disc bolts which gave me trouble.
Their discs don't seem to wear so if you replace the pads when you are suppose too, the single piece adaptor and disc should not be a problem.
The other way to improve the set up would be to leave it much like it is with separate disc, but to use Six allen head bolts to hold the disc and the threaded bolt holes line up with the wheel stud holes.
that would allow large slots/ holes drilled into the adaptor to lighten it and improve cooling.
Drilling of the disc rotor would help cooling too.
It will be interesting to see what they come up with and they seem to want to keep in touch
Zeus have come to the party and reduced the price of the replacement disc rotors when they could have toll me to go to hell.
I am thankful someone went to the trouble to design something to a limited market and are happy to sell it as the disc brake design on the 101 landrover is very tight and not easy.
I do know I will never go back to the drums on the front my 101 landrover.
Ron

PS if you are interested at current exchange rates 101 Landrover front axle Disc brake kits works out to be about $1800 dollars landed from Zeus and in the scheme of things if you were to make/ adapt something here is still good value if you account for your time and mucking around.
Our dollar is currently slowly improving so that figure could improve.

[350RRC]

Are the bolt holes in the discs (still?) angle countersunk?

DL

[101 Ron]

They are not angle counter sunk, but sit on a flat face.
They were extremely tight, enough to cause stress near the inner edge of the disk and to spread the holes that way.

[101 Ron]

Just to up date a old thread.
I have had word of another101 Landrover owner with Zeus brakes fitted front and rear with cracked discs exactly the same way mine did and on more than one rotor.
My problem is not unique.
101 landrover owners check your disc brake rotors for cracks regularly.
If you are running these type of brakes I would suggest making a effort to reduce the torque on the disc rotor bolts to reduce the chances of the rotor cracking.
Ron

[grey_ghost]

Hi Ron,

I've got the same issue... I have been told that my Zues brakes are also cracking - something I plan to investigate this weekend when I get a chance.. [bigsad]

Cheers,
GG.

[101 Ron]

Post some pics if you can.
Should get as much evidence as possible and see if Zeus want to change the design or back off the torque on assembly of the disc rotor bolts and see if they are willing to do a deal on replacement rotors.
giving the evidence back to Zeus should help them see they have a problem.......and a possible dangerous one.

The Aussie conversion kit in the works shouldn't have a cracking problem ,or parts replacement as it uses mostly off the shelf landrover components.

[Homestar]

Yeah, I'll be buying one of those Aussie conversions as soon as they are ready.

[howardd425]

128204128205128206128207128204128205128206128207Ho pefully I have added some pictures of a disc brake conversion that I have drawn up for a local company (to me in Loughborough England anyway !!)
(I don't know how strict your moderator is on mentioning companies names but I know this company send parcels of 101 spares to Australia quite frequently so some of your members may know of them.)
This conversion uses standard Landrover calipers and fit inside standard 16" steel rim, the radio body with the red 'jerry cans' is on 17" alloys and the light grey is on 16" alloys, the discs are 15 thk and machined in the correct grade of cast iron for brake discs, the double ended wheel studs are made in a heat treated nickel chromium molybdenum steel lengthened by 10mm to the suit alloy wheels.
Using the wheel stud back face on the hub as a mounting face for the spacer ring has it's problems, they look machined and you would assume that they are flat and level with each other, but they aren't, it took us a couple of attempts to machine these faces in a lathe to get the spacer ring running true, we found the best way was to use a spare stub shaft and bearings as a mandrel in a lathe, to mount the hub on, DTI checking as we went and then machined these faces flat to get a true running face for the spacer ring.
The conversions haven't improved the braking effect much, but they help to prevent brake fade and pull up square under hard braking, the radio body with the red 'jerry cans' towing a trailer can exceed 5 tons gross. Aftermarket brake pads such as EBC's are being trialled.
The existing 101 servo is 8" dia fitting a 9" servo would increase the servo assistance by 25+% this is something to be looked at.
Also looking at a power steering ram/electric pump set up similar to the Haystee but cheaper !!
Tried not to ramble too much, thanks for reading if you got this far !!
Cheers
H

[Mick_Marsh]

(I don't know how strict your moderator is on mentioning companies names but I know this company send parcels of 101 spares to Australia quite frequently so some of your members may know of them.)
At least two of the own 101s so I think that should be fine.
It's not Martin, is it?
Able Engineering?

Oh, and I see it's your first post, Howard.
Welcome to the forum.
I look forward to more posts from you keeping us updated as to what is happening in the 101 world in the UK.

[Homestar]

128204128205128206128207128204128205128206128207Ho pefully I have added some pictures of a disc brake conversion that I have drawn up for a local company (to me in Loughborough England anyway !!)
(I don't know how strict your moderator is on mentioning companies names but I know this company send parcels of 101 spares to Australia quite frequently so some of your members may know of them.)
This conversion uses standard Landrover calipers and fit inside standard 16" steel rim, the radio body with the red 'jerry cans' is on 17" alloys and the light grey is on 16" alloys, the discs are 15 thk and machined in the correct grade of cast iron for brake discs, the double ended wheel studs are made in a heat treated nickel chromium molybdenum steel lengthened by 10mm to the suit alloy wheels.
Using the wheel stud back face on the hub as a mounting face for the spacer ring has it's problems, they look machined and you would assume that they are flat and level with each other, but they aren't, it took us a couple of attempts to machine these faces in a lathe to get the spacer ring running true, we found the best way was to use a spare stub shaft and bearings as a mandrel in a lathe, to mount the hub on, DTI checking as we went and then machined these faces flat to get a true running face for the spacer ring.
The conversions haven't improved the braking effect much, but they help to prevent brake fade and pull up square under hard braking, the radio body with the red 'jerry cans' towing a trailer can exceed 5 tons gross. Aftermarket brake pads such as EBC's are being trialled.
The existing 101 servo is 8" dia fitting a 9" servo would increase the servo assistance by 25+% this is something to be looked at.
Also looking at a power steering ram/electric pump set up similar to the Haystee but cheaper !!
Tried not to ramble too much, thanks for reading if you got this far !!
Cheers
H

Welcome to the forum. :)

The original master cylinder and booster aren't designed for disk brakes which usually require more force to make them work properly, so without changing these as well, you'll still need a strong leg. A D1 dual diaphragm brake booster is an easy fit and makes a HUGE difference to brake pedal pressure even with the drum brakes. It's the single biggest improvement I made to mine. I can lock the front wheels up if needed with the drums now, but as you say, the disks are far better at making it pull up straight and consistently. Disks are my next investment on mine I think. :)

There is a guy over here that is developing a disk brake conversion for the 101 but it's still a ways off by the sounds of it - I'm happy to wait though. :)

Oh and feel free to post some more details of your 101 - maybe start a thread on it here. :). Maybe even tell us a bit about the jeep in the background too. :)

[howardd425]

At least two of the own 101s so I think that should be fine.
It's not Martin, is it?
Able Engineering?

Oh, and I see it's your first post, Howard.
Welcome to the forum.
I look forward to more posts from you keeping us updated as to what is happening in the 101 world in the UK.

The grey 101 is Martin (Able) Howdle's own - 4.6 rover and the other is his friend Steve Taylor's - 4.8 rover. (they can both be found on facebook)
They found !! 2 brand new front and rear axles somewhere and used them in this conversion.
Allegedly retired, I do the drawing work for Able and other local small companies who can't afford a full time person
Did this design before seeing your long running thread or seeing the Zeus details
the disc is 340 diax15 thk inside a 16" steel rim
Another hobby of Martin is producing parts for a Lancaster bomber rebuild - to get a 2nd one into the air in the UK - guess who has the job of redrawing some of the 22,000 jpg drgs
The willys jeep is another of Martin's toys !!
Cheers
H

[howardd425]

Thanks Homestar, for the 'heads up' about the D1 Servo, this has really made the conversion worthwhile, any disc brake conversion needs 1 of these servo's fitted,
both 101's mentioned previously have now done significant mileage and some heavy emergency stops (on purpose)(in a straight line) without any problems !!
below is a site showing more of the disc brake conversion pictures - and what happened when it was put on brake test rollers to test the brake efficiency for it's 12 month MOT test
Able Engineering (midlands) Ltd - Home | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Able-Engineering-midlands-Ltd-132599040123796/)
Under 1 of the previous pictures on this site is an A4 piece of paper stating the T&C's from the supplier of the kit, absolving them of all legal comeback etc,
before we release our disc brake conversion for general sale we will have to consult somebody legal to confirm if this can be done.
Steering Ram parts now being made !!
It's Peterborough LRO show this weekend, hope the weather stays dry.
Here is another 1 of Martins toys based on an ex MOD Bedford 16 ton (32 ton war load) troop carrier chassis - with a higher 5th gear fitted in the gearbox, 70 mph is possible, tyres are the limiting factor !!
Cheers
H

[SMoore]

Homestar,

What is involved with fitting the D1 Servo on the FC101? Which master cylinder did you use? Your reply is greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Steve Moore

[Homestar]

Hi mate, when it comes to brakes I’m of the opinion you really need to be confident in what you’re doing and happy to do it. Disco 1 booster only needs a few small mods to fit - as does the original master cylinder. If you pull it apart and lay it down next to the new one, it becomes quite apparent.

Sorry for not being more specific but I’m sure you’ll understand why I’m being a bit vague.

[SMoore]

Thanks for your reply. The D1 Servo appears to be bigger in diameter and thicker. Did this present any challenges? Do you know the bore size of the FC101 master cylinder?

[Homestar]

Diameter makes no difference to the fitup, but makes getting the speedo cable to work challanging - the thickness means the master cylinder sits further forward but the original pipes still bolt up fine with a bit of finagling. No idea what the bore size of the MC is sorry.

Also, make sure you seal the MC to the booster with a gasket - you'll have an almightly vacuum leak if you don't.

[SMoore]

One more question if I might? Did you have to fab an adapter plate between the servo and the pedal box? Or did bolt straight on?

[Homestar]

I can't honestly remember.

As I mentioned at the start, if you aren't confident in doing a job like this - please don't do it. Mucking around with the brakes on a vehicle is potentially very dangerous - I take no responsibility for what you do and what happens sorry - by the questions you are asking, I would suggest that this isn't something you should be doing to be honest.

Maybe if you started a thread on your 101 and showed us what you can do, or had been on this site longer, I'd be prepared to share a bit more, but all your posts have been short and with no explanation of what you have, you engineering and mechanical skill levels, etc.

I don't want to be responisble for a second rate conversion that may fail in the future sorry.

If you're up to the task, go for it - you'll figure it out. And ask an Engineer first if it is legal in your area - another thing I have no idea about as I don't know what area or Country you are from.

Appologies for being so blunt, but I'm sure you understand.

[howardd425]

One more question if I might? Did you have to fab an adapter plate between the servo and the pedal box? Or did bolt straight on?

If you are in the UK speak to Martin at Able Eng, Loughborough, 01509 507602, Martin@able-eng.co.uk
regards
H

[DODGE]

Thanks Homestar, for the 'heads up' about the D1 Servo, this has really made the conversion worthwhile, any disc brake conversion needs 1 of these servo's fitted,
both 101's mentioned previously have now done significant mileage and some heavy emergency stops (on purpose)(in a straight line) without any problems !!
below is a site showing more of the disc brake conversion pictures - and what happened when it was put on brake test rollers to test the brake efficiency for it's 12 month MOT test
Able Engineering (midlands) Ltd - Home | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Able-Engineering-midlands-Ltd-132599040123796/)
Under 1 of the previous pictures on this site is an A4 piece of paper stating the T&C's from the supplier of the kit, absolving them of all legal comeback etc,
before we release our disc brake conversion for general sale we will have to consult somebody legal to confirm if this can be done.
Steering Ram parts now being made !!
It's Peterborough LRO show this weekend, hope the weather stays dry.
Here is another 1 of Martins toys based on an ex MOD Bedford 16 ton (32 ton war load) troop carrier chassis - with a higher 5th gear fitted in the gearbox, 70 mph is possible, tyres are the limiting factor !!
Cheers
H

I wonder if anyone has heard if the Able engineering disc brakes are available yet

[Homestar]

AJ's conversion using D3 disks and Defender calipers is now available - he let me know at Corowa so I'll be getting a set of those with my tax return.

[DODGE]

AJ's conversion using D3 disks and Defender calipers is now available - he let me know at Corowa so I'll be getting a set of those with my tax return.

That's great to hear, thanks for sharing. will see if I can find out a price.

Cheers Gaz

[Homestar]

Good luck with that - I’ve quizzed him regarding price and he was aiming somewhere a bit lower than the Zeus conversion - which is about $1000 per corner so about $2000 for a front set but nailing him down exactly was impossible.

[DODGE]

Gday All

Just wondering if anyone on here has fitted one of AJs disc kits yet ?

Thanks Gaz

[Homestar]

Had heard through the grapevine it has been removed from sale currently - issues with warping of the discs, but not sure what the exact details are or if it's true.

When I buy a lathe, I’m going to have a go myself with a vented disc rather than solid.

[101 Ron]

I thought I would just up date with whats been going on with my Zeus disc brakes.
So far no more cracking problems .
The solution is to reduce the torque of the allen head bolts which hold the disc to the hub adaptor.............they were far too tight as supplied and greatly increased the risk of the brake disc cracking.
The real solution would be a redesign of the hub adaptor with about 6 long slots to increase cooling, reduce weight and reduce thermal movement stress between the adaptor and disc rotor......the standard hub to disc adaptor could be modified
I think Zeus engineering are too worried about litigation to do 101 disc brakes again...........that is a pity .
The Zeus disc brakes , while didnt provide any out right greater stopping power with standard booster, they give far better straighter emgency stops, no more brake adjustment and a slighly leaking hub oil seal will not put oil on the friction surface ect.
I have found the brake balance front to rear with Zeus disc on front and drums on the rear is better than drums on the front in a very hard stop.
The Zeus supplied disc pads and disc has been very hard wearing

[DODGE]

Gday All

I received a email from able engineering saying their disc brake kits are going to be available from around February some time. there is a picture of the setup on their site.at one stage late last year they said it wasnt going to happen at all. will be interesting to see the prices and if they will ship to aus. has anyone heard if AJs kit is back in production.

Gaz

[Homestar]

Yes, AJ’s kit is available - have just fitted it to mine and even though I still haven’t taken it for a good run yet, it is a well thought out system using easy to get parts - defender calipers and pads and D3 rear disc modified to fit the hubs. Something that I could do myself in my lathe if the need arose for a new set. Not sure what parts Able use though. There is another here currently having AJ’s kit fitted too but I’ll leave that to them to report. Also know of 2 other kits fitted to Aussie 101’s recently as well so including AJ’s own vehicle, that’s at least 5 vehicles here in Aus running them now - apart from AJ’s all fitted in the last 12 months. One of these at least has passed Engineering - I’ll be getting mine done too and I have no concerns about it not passing.

I did do some extra bits to my setup - new dual diaphragm booster (had previously fitted a D1 booster but found a better option) and also fitted a 7/8” bore master cylinder.

I will hopefully have mine ready for a good road test within a couple of weeks so will report back once I have done that. [emoji106]

[DODGE]

Thanks for the update Gav. good to know there are a few running around now. one of the things ive got on my list. yours looks like its coming along nicely.

Gaz

[DODGE]

Gday All

If anyone is interested in looking and is on facebook Able engineering have released their disc brake kit. The kit does the front and rear with solid discs,looks like the zeus kit. also comes with a new booster and master from the look of it. kit is 1275 pounds.

[Homestar]

Yeah, have been looking at that - looks very similar to the Zeus kit and uses custom discs which is a disadvantage of the design IMO. While I’m sure you’ll be able to get discs for the shorter term, how long are they going to support the product for? Prefer the design we went for as it has standard D3 rear discs which should be available to a long time and only requires basic machining to fit the conversion - all of which I can do myself.

[DODGE]

The d3 setup sounds a lot better. would you have a pic of it fitted to your vehicle at all ?. would be interested in seeing the different setups. Cheers

[Homestar]

Here you go. 👍

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48228981951_4fe7630988_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gtQ94z)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2gtQ94z) by Gavin Gregory (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150806513@N06/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48228983046_dd58224c99_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gtQ9os)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2gtQ9os) by Gavin Gregory (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150806513@N06/), on Flickr

[DODGE]

Thanks for the pics. that is a very tidy setup. the vented discs are a bonus.any problems getting to the hub filler like the zeus kit ? .

[Homestar]

Yes, hub filler is covered, so I sealed it off on the back and drilled and tapped another at the front - there’s a boss cast into it so it’s like factory when done - I’ve also run vents to these, You can see the black plastic tube running to the front if you look, these come out easily for filling.