Holden 186 to ford 250 conversion.

[Newy]

So.... Does anybody know how hard it would be to swap out a Holden red 186 and series gearbox to a ford 250 with C4 auto in a series 3 88?

[Newy]

Does any body know how hard it would be?
I know I'll need an adapter for the c4 to bolt up to the series transfer case?
What else?

[Series3 GT]

I'm not an expert on this conversion but I'd suspect you'd have to change engine and gearbox mounts and get an engineering certificate for it, you may run into clearance issues in the engine bay and other than that its the simple stuff like re-wiring, fuel lines and other ancillaries like that. I know that Andy Landy has (or had not sure) a Series 3 with a 302 V8 and C4 auto, maybe ask him about the auto side of things. You never know what problems pop up until you do it or find someone else whose done it.

[Carnut1100]

Scariest 4x4 ride I ever had was in a series 2 with a 250 in it...... Towing a caravan at 75 mph was pushing the limits of its stability...

[andy_d110]

We are doing this at the moment, Series 3 109", 250 with 2v head, C4 auto and series transfer, stage one Diffs front and back, defender front end. My money is on one scary ride when it's finished!

Engine mounts are standard with an adaptor, transmission mounts are moved along chassis rails. Front left hand chassis rail needed scalloping to clear oil filter, radiator crossmember modified to clear radiator. Also crossmember directly behind trans needs modifying to clear tail shaft. Bulkhead is modified around trans tunnel to clear transmission.

Standard wiring can be swapped over to new engine. Also need to modify starter circuit to allow for the park neutral switch on the auto.

[Newy]

Thanks,
So to make sure I don't have my wires crossed, did your 109 start with Holden 6 red motor and series gearbox like mine? Or a series motor?

[andy_d110]

It was originally a 4 cyl Rover. According to the rego it still is... :angel:

Most of the Holden conversions I have had the joy of encountering utilise the standard mounts with a bolt on adaptor or some other contraption welded to the mounts.

[Series3 GT]

I'd love to do the same sort of thing but use a top loader but they cost a fair bit just to be used in a farm Ute (haven't given up finding one cheap yet). If you go ahead with this conversion keep us updated and show plenty of pictures.

[Newy]

Cool, thanks Andy_d110.

Yeah I will be taking plenty of pics don't worry about that :)

[bobslandies]

We are doing this at the moment, Series 3 109", 250 with 2v head, C4 auto and series transfer, stage one Diffs front and back, defender front end. My money is on one scary ride when it's finished!

Engine mounts are standard with an adaptor, transmission mounts are moved along chassis rails. Front left hand chassis rail needed scalloping to clear oil filter, radiator crossmember modified to clear radiator. Also crossmember directly behind trans needs modifying to clear tail shaft. Bulkhead is modified around trans tunnel to clear transmission.

Standard wiring can be swapped over to new engine. Also need to modify starter circuit to allow for the park neutral switch on the auto.

No need for that Andy, just use a shorter Cortina filter and change it more often - or preferably fit an adapter and remote the filter to the lh guard where it is easier to change and also incorporate a thermostatically activated oil cooler forward of the radiator.

Bob

[bobslandies]

I'd love to do the same sort of thing but use a top loader but they cost a fair bit just to be used in a farm Ute (haven't given up finding one cheap yet). If you go ahead with this conversion keep us updated and show plenty of pictures.

IIRC Advance Adapters in the US made a Top-Loader to Series adapter back in the late 1970/80s. Although you gain strength in the gearbox with such a conversion there is no real change in the ratios.

A New Process NP435 from an F100 or the International equivalent give you the additional super-low 1st (6.68:1) and reverse (below 7:1) and you can run 3.54:1 ratio Stage 1 diffs giving around 4:1 final ratio. All doable.

Have a look on TeriAnn Wakeman's site where she gives lots of options and information:

Expedition Land Rover site (http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/)
Engines: Expedition Land Rover site (http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/#engine)

Transmissions: Expedition Land Rover site (http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/#gearbox)
etc, etc, etc.

TeriAnn Wakeman's home page (http://www.tjwakeman.net/)

This is the best compilation on the internet - make sure you have plenty of time to go through the site:)

Bob

[bobslandies]

So.... Does anybody know how hard it would be to swap out a Holden red 186 and series gearbox to a ford 250 with C4 auto in a series 3 88?

Depending on the adapter length it is still a long combination and will need moving the front crossmember further forward and fitting a later long bonnet. Rear tailshaft angle is the biggest problem in a SWB.

Bob

[DoubleChevron]

The cheapest way to get a land rover with a 302 windsor in it would be to buy one done ?? There was one for sale in Ballarat last year at a car dealers. Looked very, um, "honest" and incredibly well used. The motor sure was a tight fit. I should have taken some piccies of it. It was advertised on gumtree.com.au for a short time.

it was engineered and looked like a very, very old conversion (so no doubt well sorted).

seeya,
Shane L.

[bobslandies]

The cheapest way to get a land rover with a 302 windsor in it would be to buy one done ?? There was one for sale in Ballarat last year at a car dealers. Looked very, um, "honest" and incredibly well used. The motor sure was a tight fit. I should have taken some piccies of it. It was advertised on gumtree.com.au for a short time.

it was engineered and looked like a very, very old conversion (so no doubt well sorted).

seeya,
Shane L.

x2. Particularly for a farm truck.

Ford Windsor fits in quite nicely, so does a Chev V8 which is even neater, forget Cleveland and Holden V8s - too wide requiring firewall reworking, dramas with exhausts.

Really easier to fit a 4 speed RR engine/transmission assembly to a Series or put a Series body on a RR chassis - plenty of people have done that.

Bob

[Series3 GT]

x2. Particularly for a farm truck.

Ford Windsor fits in quite nicely, so does a Chev V8 which is even neater, forget Cleveland and Holden V8s - too wide requiring firewall reworking, dramas with exhausts.

Really easier to fit a 4 speed RR engine/transmission assembly to a Series or put a Series body on a RR chassis - plenty of people have done that.

Bob
Yep that's what I'm doing for a road car (registered), I'm not bothered too much by low gear ratios in a farm Ute but it's the complete lack of power that I'm not too impressed about, that's why I'm interested in a 6cyl or V8 engine conversion. Not the biggest fan of Holden stuff cause I'm a Ford man, not saying that there's anything wrong with Holden stuff just prefer Ford or Valiant stuff.

[mick88]

We are doing this at the moment, Series 3 109", 250 with 2v head, C4 auto and series transfer, stage one Diffs front and back, defender front end. My money is on one scary ride when it's finished!

Engine mounts are standard with an adaptor, transmission mounts are moved along chassis rails. Front left hand chassis rail needed scalloping to clear oil filter, radiator crossmember modified to clear radiator. Also crossmember directly behind trans needs modifying to clear tail shaft. Bulkhead is modified around trans tunnel to clear transmission.

Standard wiring can be swapped over to new engine. Also need to modify starter circuit to allow for the park neutral switch on the auto.


Before you scallop the chassis rail to take the oil filter I believe there is a shorter oil filter available that will do the job. A guy I know has a Ford 6 (200 or 250) in a series two and I recall him telling me he uses a shorter filter.
I think it is the Z89A as opposed to the Z9
Maybe you could email Ryco Filters and see what they have to say.

Cheers, Mick.

[plus 30]

We are doing this at the moment, Series 3 109", 250 with 2v head, C4 auto and series transfer, stage one Diffs front and back, defender front end. My money is on one scary ride when it's finished!

Engine mounts are standard with an adaptor, transmission mounts are moved along chassis rails. Front left hand chassis rail needed scalloping to clear oil filter, radiator crossmember modified to clear radiator. Also crossmember directly behind trans needs modifying to clear tail shaft. Bulkhead is modified around trans tunnel to clear transmission.

Standard wiring can be swapped over to new engine. Also need to modify starter circuit to allow for the park neutral switch on the auto.

Thanks Andy, Could you share your experience matching up the C4 to the transfer case, as I am needing to do this also?
My project involves a Holden 186 motor modified late model trimatic bell housing, a 10" C4 torque converter, 6cyl c4 ( 1973 ) and some sort of adaptation to the transfer case.
I hope to be able to retain the use of the Land Rover PTO etc, so may modify a Rover gearbox rearshaft to couple up.
I haven't got further than sourcing the C4 and modifying the Trimatic bell houising, the next step is to get hold of a 10" C4 converter if possible!
I have almost finished fitting a pair of Stage 1 diffs ( engine number 119 )

Any help you can give me about the transfer adaptation will be much appreciated.
I find that there is no need to go bigger than a Holden Motor with the standard diffs and an overdrive, if the motor is in good condition ( a blue 202 crank may be a good addition later.
We will see how the 186 matches up to the stage one 3,54 ratio diffs?

It will be useful for some to know that an original 6cyl 109 has the engine set back 4" which involves both the bell housing and gearbox crossmembers being 4" rearward. The engine mount outriggers seem to be in the same 4cly position and longer ofset engine mount plates are used.
The firewall is also 4" deeper into the cabin.
I have two Holden powered series 3 here and both have dents in the front of the sump from full suspension travel.
Despite the Seaton's conversions actually lifting the front of the Holden engine up ( making complications of the front prop shaft angle, and firewall clearance ) they still barely have enough sump clearance.
Other issues are the front spring strengths ( 4cyl not really suitable for a 6cyl ) and the different conversion kits required for a 4cyl or 6cyl which I have just discovered lately despite having worked on the two models for years!
The best model to start regarding front of engine clearance to front axle with would have to be the 6cyl 109 wheel base, but there may not be many about now.
To gain more length for the C4 adapter to the transfer case concievably a Land Rover conversion 4cyl engine position in a 6cyl chassis would give an extra 4" without altering any crossmembers except for perhaps the front one, of course a pair of 6 cylinder Land Rover prop shafts would be required.

Mike