While Head is Off

[justfishing]

Hello,
Looking at fitting a new head gasket as the signs are getting very obvious, still to much pressure in the hoses. I am thinking to do the rings not to keen to remove the engine has anyone done this while the motor is still in the car ?? once the head is off, it has done just over 200,000ks.
Ian

[djam1]

Not sure what engine it is but assuming its a TD5
It was likely due for a head gasket at 170 K or thereabouts do the gasket and the head if it is damaged and leave the rest alone.
They are not know to wear out at such low Ks you are probably only wasting money that said if you have had diesel in the oil it could be worn more than normal.
I have driven one that had done over 320K and was untouched all it really needed was a head job


Hello,
Looking at fitting a new head gasket as the signs are getting very obvious, still to much pressure in the hoses. I am thinking to do the rings not to keen to remove the engine has anyone done this while the motor is still in the car ?? once the head is off, it has done just over 200,000ks.
Ian

[justinc]

As Duane has said, there is no reason at all to touch the rings etc unless there has been water in the bores and pitting etc. These engines unfortunately seem to succumb to overheating or oil pump bolt failures before they wear out...:o

We work on many of them, actually LOTS, and haven't seen a worn out one yet.


JC

[Disco Muppet]

Agreed, but I think 170k is a bit young for a head gasket.
Mine's just ticked over 242k and has no indication of needing any attention, if I make it to 300k without it going then off comes the head anyway, but as JC says they're an extremely robust engine, they just have an Achilles heel or two

[justinc]

Head gaskets can leak in these at anytime, they just need to get hot and the dowels deform. Pre 2004 they all seem to have plastic dowels. I have removed a couple of 2003 heads to find plastic dowels...:(

i have 2 in at work at the moment with head gasket failures. Both 2001 models, 1 so bad that the circulation of coolant is almost non existent due to the pressure exerted by leaking compression gasses. When we fitted the pressure tester to the expansion tank and ran the engine, the gauge started to rise by itself even at a cold idle:eek:

Basically, there is so much compression gas getting into the cooling system that it is displacing the water as the engine is idling...After about 3 minutes the top hose is empty and the pressure gauge reads 8psi. The water pump has been removed and inspected as I was first suspect of it as there was almost no circulation. The vehicle arrived at work empty of water, I added 10 litres to it to perform a pressure test. I am hoping the head is OK and the block face is alright as the water consists of a brown muddy substance, looks like years without coolant or inhibitor.

JC

[Disco Muppet]

Head gaskets can leak in these at anytime, they just need to get hot and the dowels deform. Pre 2004 they all seem to have plastic dowels. I have removed a couple of 2003 heads to find plastic dowels...:(

i have 2 in at work at the moment with head gasket failures. Both 2001 models, 1 so bad that the circulation of coolant is almost non existent due to the pressure exerted by leaking compression gasses. When we fitted the pressure tester to the expansion tank and ran the engine, the gauge started to rise by itself even at a cold idle:eek:

Basically, there is so much compression gas getting into the cooling system that it is displacing the water as the engine is idling...After about 3 minutes the top hose is empty and the pressure gauge reads 8psi. The water pump has been removed and inspected as I was first suspect of it as there was almost no circulation. The vehicle arrived at work empty of water, I added 10 litres to it to perform a pressure test. I am hoping the head is OK and the block face is alright as the water consists of a brown muddy substance, looks like years without coolant or inhibitor.

JC

Yikes.
I'm far too paranoid to let things get that bad :p
Obviously they can go whenever, but assuming you don't have any bad luck and look after it, pre-200k seems very unlucky to me.
Once I fit an engine monitor/low coolant alarm I'll be happy :)

[justinc]

Yikes.
I'm far too paranoid to let things get that bad :p
Obviously they can go whenever, but assuming you don't have any bad luck and look after it, pre-200k seems very unlucky to me.
Once I fit an engine monitor/low coolant alarm I'll be happy :)

yup, if it were mine i would fit monitoring bits and enjoy the ride...170k is early for these i agree, but could be an anomally, like most things in the automotive world:D

jc

[justfishing]

Hello,
Huge thanks to everybody, Sorry it is a TD5 2004 Classic, I will strip it out around the 25th as back to work on the mine again on the 27th so I can check the gasket holes, order everything then will be here on my return. I did my 300TDI when i was in up in Kal, I have quite a few other things to do to it, been too long in the making.
thanks
Ian

[OffTrack]

You should be able to see the punched holes without lifting the head. They are visible at the front right of the motor. You'll only see a small part of the punched hole but it's enough to determine which gasket is fitted.

cheers
Paul

[djam1]

Justin I have had this discussion with a well known independent in Perth and he says that most TD5s need doing at around 170K in Western Australia
Not sure if its the running conditions or temperatures we see
I didn't believe him put my head in the sand and said he was wrong, then relented and pulled the head and it was just starting to go so to his credit he was right
As I said before I did drive Whyatt's old white D2 a while back and that had done over 320K without the head done probably up near 340K by now


yup, if it were mine i would fit monitoring bits and enjoy the ride...170k is early for these i agree, but could be an anomally, like most things in the automotive world:D

jc

[justinc]

Justin I have had this discussion with a well known independent in Perth and he says that most TD5s need doing at around 170K in Western Australia
Not sure if its the running conditions or temperatures we see

Hi D, Yes you would expect earlier issues I guess with higher ambients, also lots of vehicles we get down here do lots of short running, too.

JC

[mattadelaide1975]

Hi D, Yes you would expect earlier issues I guess with higher ambients, also lots of vehicles we get down here do lots of short running, too.

JC

I was just having this conversation with my Mechanic the other day with regards to my TD5 having done 188k and if it was near time to get the head gasket looked at.

He advised that as I do long trips, and I am in the car all day, that I shouldnt need to do the head gasket until well over 200K. Now having said that, I think I should go find a lot of wood to touch:p

He was of the opinion, that those vehicles that have to have the head done prior to 200k, are those that do short, stop/start trips where the engine doesnt get up to operating temp.

Cheers

Matt

[CountP]

Head gaskets can leak in these at anytime, they just need to get hot and the dowels deform. Pre 2004 they all seem to have plastic dowels. I have removed a couple of 2003 heads to find plastic dowels...:(

i have 2 in at work at the moment with head gasket failures. Both 2001 models, 1 so bad that the circulation of coolant is almost non existent due to the pressure exerted by leaking compression gasses. When we fitted the pressure tester to the expansion tank and ran the engine, the gauge started to rise by itself even at a cold idle:eek:

Basically, there is so much compression gas getting into the cooling system that it is displacing the water as the engine is idling...After about 3 minutes the top hose is empty and the pressure gauge reads 8psi. The water pump has been removed and inspected as I was first suspect of it as there was almost no circulation. The vehicle arrived at work empty of water, I added 10 litres to it to perform a pressure test. I am hoping the head is OK and the block face is alright as the water consists of a brown muddy substance, looks like years without coolant or inhibitor.

JC

Justin in your experience is pressurising the cooling system the predominant way in which the Td5 head gasket fails?

Ryan

[Yorkie]

i best go hug a tree then!, 285k and have owned since 175k, not intending to do the gasket anytime whilst i own it. ;)

[mattadelaide1975]

i best go hug a tree then!, 285k and have owned since 175k, not intending to do the gasket anytime whilst i own it. ;)

Nice one Yorkie..... only a tree, I would be hugging a whole forrest.

[justinc]

Regarding the head gasket failure, yes the first and often the only symptom is excessive pressurisation/ coolant consumption, especially when working hard.

An update on the one mentioned above, got the head off today and it has got too hot and smeared some of the piston skirt on the cylinder bore in number 2, RIP:(


JC

[Disco Muppet]

An update on the one mentioned above, got the head off today and it has got too hot and smeared some of the piston skirt on the cylinder bore in number 2, RIP:(


JC

Damn, that's insane.

[sheerluck]

Regarding the head gasket failure, yes the first and often the only symptom is excessive pressurisation/ coolant consumption, especially when working hard.

An update on the one mentioned above, got the head off today and it has got too hot and smeared some of the piston skirt on the cylinder bore in number 2, RIP:(


JC

Heading for the Landy playground in the sky? Or is the owner going to cough up the readies for a replacement?

[justinc]

No idea yet, he is having a think over the weekend. Such a shame as apart from the engine issue it is a nice, neat example of a manual D2...:( He may fix it, don't know until next week I guess.

JC

[justinc]

Damn, that's insane.

My advice to everyone is get a coolant level warning system and / or head temp warning system in place. Do it NOW.

JC

[Disco Muppet]

My advice to everyone is get a coolant level warning system and / or head temp warning system in place. Do it NOW.

JC

That and run the correct coolant :ohyes:

[robbotd5]

And what coolant shall that's be muppet?
Regards
Robbo

[Disco Muppet]

Personally, I use Nulon red in a 50/50 mix :)
My comment was more in reference to JC mentioning that it had no water in it, and evidence of no inhibitor, stuff like that.
If it meets the specs then use it, but make sure it's got something there! :)

[justinc]

And what coolant shall that's be muppet?
Regards
Robbo

* Shudder*

:o:o:o:o


:wasntme:


:eek:



:D



Thank goodness Muppet is too young to remember THAT debate...;)


Best leave that sleeping dog alone, eh Robbo:D


JC

[Disco Muppet]

* Shudder*

:o:o:o:o


:wasntme:


:eek:



:D



Thank goodness Muppet is too young to remember THAT debate...;)


Best leave that sleeping dog alone, eh Robbo:D


JC

I've seen some threads, was certainly....uhhh......interesting? :angel: :twisted:

[justinc]

Interesting allright:o. An OAT vs Glycol Based stuff 'discussion' is guaranteed to get the blood pressure up...


JC

[beanie_205]

Given that the coolant expansion tank is slightly pressurised with a healthy gasket, how obvious is it when the head gasket goes? Is there a big jump in pressure or is it more obvious in terms of coolant dissapearing?

[Disco Muppet]

Given that the coolant expansion tank is slightly pressurised with a healthy gasket, how obvious is it when the head gasket goes? Is there a big jump in pressure or is it more obvious in terms of coolant dissapearing?

From my understanding (which is fairly limited) there's a significant increase in pressure, much more noticeable particularly a fair while after shut down.

[disco2_dan]

all it really needed was a head job

That's all we all really need isn't it?

[OffTrack]

From my understanding (which is fairly limited) there's a significant increase in pressure, much more noticeable particularly a fair while after shut down.

Definitely noticeable but I reckon it's easy to miss the signs of early onset unless you have an immediate major failure.

When the head gasket on mine went the pressurising is pretty apparent. The top hose started to look "pumped up" and it was difficult to compress with your fingers. The expansion tank would release pressure with a hiss similar to taking the lid off a soft drink bottle even 12hrs after the engine was switched off.

cheers
Paul

[1976_michelle]

Head gaskets can leak in these at anytime, they just need to get hot and the dowels deform. Pre 2004 they all seem to have plastic dowels. I have removed a couple of 2003 heads to find plastic dowels...:(

i have 2 in at work at the moment with head gasket failures. Both 2001 models, 1 so bad that the circulation of coolant is almost non existent due to the pressure exerted by leaking compression gasses. When we fitted the pressure tester to the expansion tank and ran the engine, the gauge started to rise by itself even at a cold idle:eek:

Basically, there is so much compression gas getting into the cooling system that it is displacing the water as the engine is idling...After about 3 minutes the top hose is empty and the pressure gauge reads 8psi. The water pump has been removed and inspected as I was first suspect of it as there was almost no circulation. The vehicle arrived at work empty of water, I added 10 litres to it to perform a pressure test. I am hoping the head is OK and the block face is alright as the water consists of a brown muddy substance, looks like years without coolant or inhibitor.

JC
these plastic dowels you speak of, are they replaceable with better now or are you up for the same potential short head gasket life span again the second time around (owner of a2001 v8 with a weepy headgasket)

[OffTrack]

these plastic dowels you speak of, are they replaceable with better now or are you up for the same potential short head gasket life span again the second time around (owner of a2001 v8 with a weepy headgasket)

It's a Td5 thing...

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Dont be too dissappointed Michelle,,
lots of things on your V8 to keep you busy,,;):p:(

[1976_michelle]

hah yeh, just know the head gaskets are a weakness in the D2 v8s as well and wondered if it was for the same reason
THanks

[Disco Muppet]

Definitely noticeable but I reckon it's easy to miss the signs of early onset unless you have an immediate major failure.

When the head gasket on mine went the pressurising is pretty apparent. The top hose started to look "pumped up" and it was difficult to compress with your fingers. The expansion tank would release pressure with a hiss similar to taking the lid off a soft drink bottle even 12hrs after the engine was switched off.

cheers
Paul

Like a soft drink bottle or like a shaken up, full soft drink bottle?
Mine has a slight 'hiss' when cold but only for a nanosecond.

[OffTrack]

Like a soft drink bottle or like a shaken up, full soft drink bottle?
Mine has a slight 'hiss' when cold but only for a nanosecond.

Like a soft drink bottle - but I'll only talking about after the car has been sitting for an extended period like 6-12 hours.

The cooling system should be a closed system if you don't have leaks. The only pressure you should get in the system is from the expansion of the water/coolant due to heating. That means the once the coolant has dropped back to same temperature as when you last checked there should be no pressure in the system. If you've got pressure under these circumstances it has been added from an external source, and that is usually via the head gasket.

cheers
Paul

[Disco Muppet]

Like a soft drink bottle - but I'll only talking about after the car has been sitting for an extended period like 6-12 hours.

The cooling system should be a closed system if you don't have leaks. The only pressure you should get in the system is from the expansion of the water/coolant due to heating. That means the once the coolant has dropped back to same temperature as when you last checked there should be no pressure in the system. If you've got pressure under these circumstances it has been added from an external source, and that is usually via the head gasket.

cheers
Paul

Cheers.
I'm not overly concerned it's not really a hiss, sort of a tiny rasp. :)