white smoke & no pickup TD5

[Alex 110]

Just started today - huge clouds of white smoke when I try to take off from a junction & 5-10 seconds before revs get above 1000 & it starts to move. Its been a bit rough at idle for a while, but this new behaviour is worrying me.
BTW I also have the 3 amigos. Its had option B so I've been testing the wheel sensors - they seem OK so I just need a nanocom to clear the fault.
Anyway, hope someone can help with the smoking etc.
Cheers,
Alex

[OffTrack]

I'm pretty sure white smoke = unburnt diesel vapour. Could be injector washers?

[Reads90]

White smoke is normally water

Had a similar problem with a 300tdi and I need to drain water out of the fuel filter.

There is a screw thread bung on the bottom which you undo and will let out water first then diesel. This will take five mins to do and the. Run it for a bit and see what it is like

[djam1]

Might be best that you don't drive it until you figure out what is going on
If it damages a piston it will get expensive

[alien]

If it's "huge clouds" off white smoke I'd be looking at the turbo.
Mine did this not long ago as it pumped oil into the exhaust.

Drop the hoses from the air filter box end and have look inside the turbo.
Mine broke the shaft and you could see things weren't right.
Luckily I didn't have to clean the intercooler as I caught it before to much oil got into the system.
Also I had no bits of missing metal to worry about going through the system.


For the three lads check the earth point of your option B also, some folk have had the earth screw come loose.

[Alex 110]

thanks everyone for your responses to date...
In detail - yes, I thought white smoke was unburnt diesel, but I'm not sure why...
I can check the turbo tomorrow, I'll let you know what I find...
Its my daily driver, so not using it is hard, but I'll try...
I have to take the rocker cover off in the near future so I can check the injector seals then, but I'll wait to do that until I have the new seals so I can replace them as I go...

Any further suggestions?

[bob10]

Just my 2 pesos worth, Bob

White smoke occurs when raw diesel comes through the exhaust completely intact and unburned. Some causes of this include

Faulty or damaged injectors
Incorrect injection timing (could be a worn timing gear or damaged crankshaft keyway).
Low cylinder compression (eg caused by leaking or broken valves, piston ring sticking, cylinder and/or ring wear, or cylinder glaze)


When white smoke occurs at cold start, and then disappears as the engine warms up, the most common causes are fouling deposits around piston rings and/or cylinder glazing. Use of our Flushing Oil Concentrate (http://www.costeffective.com.au/flushing_oil_concentrate.php) and FTC Decarbonizer (http://www.costeffective.com.au/ftc_decarboniser.php) address these respective problems.
Water entering combustion spaces will also create white smoke. Faulty head gaskets and cracked cylinder heads or blocks are a common cause of water entry, and are often to blame. Unfortunately, expensive mechanical repair is the only proper solution here.

[bsperka]

Just my 2 pesos worth, Bob

White smoke occurs when raw diesel comes through the exhaust completely intact and unburned. Some causes of this include

Faulty or damaged injectors
Incorrect injection timing (could be a worn timing gear or damaged crankshaft keyway).
Low cylinder compression (eg caused by leaking or broken valves, piston ring sticking, cylinder and/or ring wear, or cylinder glaze)

When white smoke occurs at cold start, and then disappears as the engine warms up, the most common causes are fouling deposits around piston rings and/or cylinder glazing. Use of our Flushing Oil Concentrate (http://www.costeffective.com.au/flushing_oil_concentrate.php) and FTC Decarbonizer (http://www.costeffective.com.au/ftc_decarboniser.php) address these respective problems.
Water entering combustion spaces will also create white smoke. Faulty head gaskets and cracked cylinder heads or blocks are a common cause of water entry, and are often to blame. Unfortunately, expensive mechanical repair is the only proper solution here.

Can I suggest that if you are going to copy text from another website (in this case costeffectivemaintenance), you should indicate / acknowledge where it came from.

[blue_mini]

Check your oil level as well. Mine did what yours was doing when the head cracked filled the sump with diesel.

[Alex 110]

Thanks Bob,
no evidence of cracked head/block/blown head gasket - no oil in coolant, no coolant in sump (I just checked), so I doubt water is the cause of the smoke. So probably diesel - injector seals? turbo? PO told me it had a new turbo shortly before I bought it 30k km/18months ago, & it certainly looked new, but I never thought to ask to see receipts so I don't really know.

Some further information:
My last trip home this afternoon, when I started it, I sat there for 10-15 seconds in reverse with the accelerator flat to the floor & nothing happening except lots of white smoke before it started moving to reverse out of my parking spot. Put it in D & it took off more or less normally except for the smoke. Once it got going it was fine as far as driveability goes (maybe down on power).
I didn't have to stop on the way home - only left turns. I had the rear camera switched on to keep an eye on things & what I saw was it not smoking all the time, but when I accelerated away from a junction it smoked bad up to about 2000rpm when the turbo kicked in & the smoke stopped. If I was cruising at 60 & not accelerating or slowing down it smoked too.
Earlier in the day whenever I had to stop (stop sign/traffic light etc) it would again take 5-10 seconds (sometimes longer) to get going again accompanied by copious smoke until the turbo kicked around 2000rpm.

[alien]

Thanks Bob,
no evidence of cracked head/block/blown head gasket - no oil in coolant, no coolant in sump (I just checked), so I doubt water is the cause of the smoke. So probably diesel - injector seals? turbo? PO told me it had a new turbo shortly before I bought it 30k km/18months ago, & it certainly looked new, but I never thought to ask to see receipts so I don't really know.

Some further information:
My last trip home this afternoon, when I started it, I sat there for 10-15 seconds in reverse with the accelerator flat to the floor & nothing happening except lots of white smoke before it started moving to reverse out of my parking spot. Put it in D & it took off more or less normally except for the smoke. Once it got going it was fine as far as driveability goes (maybe down on power).
I didn't have to stop on the way home - only left turns. I had the rear camera switched on to keep an eye on things & what I saw was it not smoking all the time, but when I accelerated away from a junction it smoked bad up to about 2000rpm when the turbo kicked in & the smoke stopped. If I was cruising at 60 & not accelerating or slowing down it smoked too.
Earlier in the day whenever I had to stop (stop sign/traffic light etc) it would again take 5-10 seconds (sometimes longer) to get going again accompanied by copious smoke until the turbo kicked around 2000rpm.
This update helps with ideas.
It's not the huge white cloud I thought you where talking off, that's a good sign.
It shows the smoke only as the turbo is trying to help so I'd be thinking about delaminating hoses either side of the intercooler.
Some describe this as black smoke but it could be interpretation.

[Alex 110]

This update helps with ideas.
It's not the huge white cloud I thought you where talking off, that's a good sign.
It shows the smoke only as the turbo is trying to help so I'd be thinking about delaminating hoses either side of the intercooler.
Some describe this as black smoke but it could be interpretation.

I have brand new (<500km) silicone turbo hoses so it ain't that.

"Check your oil level as well. Mine did what yours was doing when the head cracked filled the sump with diesel." blue mini

Oil level is not changing (except the rocker cover gasket leak) so I'm not getting diesel in the sump...

[Alex 110]

This update helps with ideas.
It's not the huge white cloud I thought you where talking off, that's a good sign.
It shows the smoke only as the turbo is trying to help so I'd be thinking about delaminating hoses either side of the intercooler.
Some describe this as black smoke but it could be interpretation.
It is a huge white cloud when I'm trying to get going...
Definitely white - I had black smoke before I replaced the turbo hoses & there's no way it could be described as black

[gavinwibrow]

Check new hose clamps? One of my new silicone hose ones became so loose it fell off the hose altogether under heavy accelleration. When I went to check the silicone clamps, 5 of the 6 were quite loose.

[KENO1947]

Similar problem but not quite the same D2/td5 1999 almost 280k Intermittent, usually happens on an incline or hill, accelerating up hill &have to back off for traffic or speed limit signs, put the foot down again &nothing for 2 3 4 5 seconds with a big cloud grey/blue smoke then everything is fine again. The oil level remains constant with no indication of coolant contamination & the coolant seems free of oil. Does seem to use a bit of coolant but can find no obvious leaks. Other than this occasional problem car idles & runs fine..

any advice would be much appreciated

JEFF

[Mudguard]

Thanks Bob,
no evidence of cracked head/block/blown head gasket - no oil in coolant, no coolant in sump (I just checked), so I doubt water is the cause of the smoke. So probably diesel - injector seals? turbo? PO told me it had a new turbo shortly before I bought it 30k km/18months ago, & it certainly looked new, but I never thought to ask to see receipts so I don't really know.

Some further information:
My last trip home this afternoon, when I started it, I sat there for 10-15 seconds in reverse with the accelerator flat to the floor & nothing happening except lots of white smoke before it started moving to reverse out of my parking spot. Put it in D & it took off more or less normally except for the smoke. Once it got going it was fine as far as driveability goes (maybe down on power).
I didn't have to stop on the way home - only left turns. I had the rear camera switched on to keep an eye on things & what I saw was it not smoking all the time, but when I accelerated away from a junction it smoked bad up to about 2000rpm when the turbo kicked in & the smoke stopped. If I was cruising at 60 & not accelerating or slowing down it smoked too.
Earlier in the day whenever I had to stop (stop sign/traffic light etc) it would again take 5-10 seconds (sometimes longer) to get going again accompanied by copious smoke until the turbo kicked around 2000rpm.


The whole revvving and not moving thing sounds like transfer case not having enough oil. Thats what happened to me when i blew the oil cooler line. I got lots of smoke because the oil was hitting the hot surfaces and i was revving and not going anywhere. Im not anywhere near as experienced mechanically as most of the others on the forum so if the experts can tell you its not it then great. Otherwise its easy to check.

Craig

[bob10]

Can I suggest that if you are going to copy text from another website (in this case costeffectivemaintenance), you should indicate / acknowledge where it came from.

Point taken ,I normally do, if you have have read some of my threads, a slipup on my part this time,Bob

[Alex 110]

The whole revvving and not moving thing sounds like transfer case not having enough oil. Thats what happened to me when i blew the oil cooler line. I got lots of smoke because the oil was hitting the hot surfaces and i was revving and not going anywhere. Im not anywhere near as experienced mechanically as most of the others on the forum so if the experts can tell you its not it then great. Otherwise its easy to check.

Craig

the point is its NOT revving - flat to the floor & 800rpm for 10-15 seconds

[Mudguard]

the point is its NOT revving - flat to the floor & 800rpm for 10-15 seconds

Ooops, must have missed that.

Sorry.

im no help then!!

[Alex 110]

just tested a few things - turbo hose clamps are tight, turbo wastegate free, turbo all OK - free turning, no broken vanes (Intake side) no play in bearings.
Started it up - no smoke at idle, started smoking & sounding like running on 4 cylinders at 1000rpm, kept smoking up to 3500rpm.
So I'm thinking an injector seal leading to one cylinder not firing.
Blow-past the injector would also make sense with my previous post of the camshaft front cover coming off, except the breather is clear so I'm not sure how the rocker cover would be pressurising.
Any thoughts O Mighty Guru's? (serious, not taking the p**s)

[djam1]

Get a Nanocom or equivalent and check the cylinder balance this should isolate the injector or cylinder

[thexprinter]

thanks everyone for your responses to date...
In detail - yes, I thought white smoke was unburnt diesel, but I'm not sure why...
I can check the turbo tomorrow, I'll let you know what I find...
Its my daily driver, so not using it is hard, but I'll try...
I have to take the rocker cover off in the near future so I can check the injector seals then, but I'll wait to do that until I have the new seals so I can replace them as I go...

Any further suggestions?

Had a white smoke problem ....had changed fuel pump tried to restart engine...unburnt fuel ...cause by heaters in cyls not working....put down to battery being a bit flat.....charged battery engine fired up no white smoke
have not seen any for 18 months....am happy camper....thexprinter 2000 td5 333,000k

[Alex 110]

Thanks thexprinter, but my white smoke problem is not just at startup or with a cold engine, its anytime I accelerate.
Although my battery is a bit old & reads only 12.4v when its linked to the new deepcycle which reads 12.85v it should be OK

[nick_e]

My guess is faulty injector or lack of compression in one or more cylinders.

I would have the injectors serviced and a compression test done as a first step.

[Disco Muppet]

I'd go with injectors too, get them looked at and go from there.
Other than that it sounds exactly like a turbo issue, but that's already been said and tested.

[justinc]

ULP in diesel fuel is another possibility. drain a bit of fuel out and have a sniff. also, if the fuel feels unusually cold on the hands for diesel, it is likely to be petrol contaminated....:(


jc

[Alex 110]

Thanks Justin, I just checked my fuel receipts & guess what? $20 of vortex 95 went in the tank shortly before the problem started. That's what happens when you've been using a commodore & both need fuel at about the same time. My bad. I feel like a real dill.
I traveled about 50km with the mix in the tank. Am I likely to have stuffed the injectors?
Obviously I now need to drain the tank & the fuel lines - anything else I need to do? (apart from take more care at the servo)

[Yorkie]

how much was in the tank when the ulp was added?.
me personally, fill the tank with diesel and change out the fuel filter, the injectors are either stuffed or not so a percentage of ulp in the diesel you might get away with it.

[Alex 110]

OK, so I drained the fuel tank, refuelled it after a 3km walk to the nearest servo to get a jerrycan of diesel. Started it up, a bit of white smoke for a couple of minutes til the pipes cleared, now its running better than it has for a long time - a puff of black smoke under hard acceleration (WOT to 4000rpm), but that's probably turbo wastegate adjustment - I had to play around with the rod to disconnect it & check the wastegate wasn't jammed.
Before anyone else jumps in I did not say I played around with my rod:wasntme:
So I'll be shortening it up until just before overboost & I'll be happy again.
Alex

[djam1]

Don't buy a V8 Land Cruiser that little mistake would of cost about $20K

[Yorkie]

OK, so I drained the fuel tank, refuelled it after a 3km walk to the nearest servo to get a jerrycan of diesel. Started it up, a bit of white smoke for a couple of minutes til the pipes cleared, now its running better than it has for a long time - a puff of black smoke under hard acceleration (WOT to 4000rpm), but that's probably turbo wastegate adjustment - I had to play around with the rod to disconnect it & check the wastegate wasn't jammed.
Before anyone else jumps in I did not say I played around with my rod:wasntme:
So I'll be shortening it up until just before overboost & I'll be happy again.
Alex

extreme way of cleaning the fuel system but will have done just that!. :)

on for the good oil, add ULP to the td5 tank for improved performance!. :angel:

[Alex 110]

extreme way of cleaning the fuel system but will have done just that!. :)

on for the good oil, add ULP to the td5 tank for improved performance!. :angel:
:Rolling::Rolling:

[justinc]

Thanks Justin, I just checked my fuel receipts & guess what? $20 of vortex 95 went in the tank shortly before the problem started. That's what happens when you've been using a commodore & both need fuel at about the same time. My bad. I feel like a real dill.
I traveled about 50km with the mix in the tank. Am I likely to have stuffed the injectors?
Obviously I now need to drain the tank & the fuel lines - anything else I need to do? (apart from take more care at the servo)

no damage i'd expect, thank goodness it isn't a modern common rail engine:o. just drain out whats left, drain or change the fuel filter and run a full tank of clean diesel through it:)
you'd be surprised how often we see this....
jc

[BIG O]

Wow now that is interesting. I always thought you couldnt get away with it on a Td5. I know I once did it on my old D1 Tdi and ran beautiful after also . There has always been I guess a rumour that truckies always put a little unleaded in their tanks for the same reason .

[Disco4_tech]

no damage i'd expect, thank goodness it isn't a modern common rail engine:o. just drain out whats left, drain or change the fuel filter and run a full tank of clean diesel through it:)
you'd be surprised how often we see this....
jc

Have had a few come in to our work, and luckily these older engines can handle a little bit of unleaded ! Just drain the tank, fill with diesal and let them run for a hour or two and its all good.

While reading this thread I was really thinkin it seemed like contamination. Lucky for the owner it was not faulty Injectors.