when is a bent chassis considered 'terminal'?

[garrywlh]

I have a fairly sad specimen of a Series II (1959) that I bought cheap to serve as a donor while I have a go at fixing up another one that I was expecting to buy; but have now missed out on. sigh.

While stripping this one down to check out the chassis, and possibly to consider doing this one up instead, I discovered this. I hope it is clear in the pic. I can't see any obvious damage to the steel, but clearly somewhere in its past, the front of the vehicle has tried to occupy the same space as something else and been bent to the left in the process!

I have no experience with this sort of thing. Is this too much of a problem to ignore? If so, can these things be fixed, and who would do this kind of work? If not, do you reckon I should give up right now?
Garry :(

[russellrovers]

I have a fairly sad specimen of a Series II (1959) that I bought cheap to serve as a donor while I have a go at fixing up another one that I was expecting to buy; but have now missed out on. sigh.

While stripping this one down to check out the chassis, and possibly to consider doing this one up instead, I discovered this. I hope it is clear in the pic. I can't see any obvious damage to the steel, but clearly somewhere in its past, the front of the vehicle has tried to occupy the same space as something else and been bent to the left in the process!

I have no experience with this sort of thing. Is this too much of a problem to ignore? If so, can these things be fixed, and who would do this kind of work? If not, do you reckon I should give up right now?
Garry :(hi gary if thats the only damage its a easy repair jim

[garrywlh]

thanks Jim. I'd be glad if I don't have to just give up on it. What do you recommend for this particular area of damage? Who do you reckon I should get to look at it?
cheers

[Sitec]

Garry... Panic not. If the front left dumb iron is bent like that, it had a sideways hit, not a frontal. If you are handy with a grinder and a welder, I'd be slicing through the top, bottom and outside face and allowing the leg to spring back into place. It may take a few cuts which WILL try and grab the grinder, but with the spring still there and a lump hammer that'll come back fairly easily. If I was nearer I'd come and fix it for you. If your not handy with a welder, find yor local welder/fabricator. He'd have that straight and welded back up in such a way that you won't see it in under an hour if he's any good. If you have the whole body off, run a tape diagonally from a select corner to corner. Then compare the measurement from opposite corners.. Land Rovers are known to be a little out as standard but I would expect it to be within 10mm or less. Let us know what you find! :)

[Sitec]

Ya got me checking SWIMBO's chassis now! From left rear outer corner of xmember to front rh web of bell housing is 2505mm. (Note it has an original x member and is a military SWB!

[garrywlh]

Thanks for that. I do tend to panic, not being experienced with steel fabrication! I haven't finished removing the body yet, but will now continue to see what other surprises may be in store. I already know that the rear cross member suffered a dodgy repair some years ago, so I knew I would be needing a replacement and a mobile welder to attach it. I'll ask him to look at the front now also.
Will keep going and eventually post some more pics and a progress report.
Cheerio and thanks again.

[Sitec]

And from RH rear outer corner of rear cross member to front lh web on bellhousing x member is 2508mm. Only 3mm difference. Not bad for a 1960's Land Rover! :)

[garrywlh]

Ya got me checking SWIMBO's chassis now! From left rear outer corner of xmember to front rh web of bell housing is 2505mm. (Note it has an original x member and is a military SWB!

Wow, thanks mate for checking! Very kind of you. Actually I have the technical drawings of the chassis with all measurements in the Haynes. I was going to show it to the welder.

[roverrescue]

I was going to make the suggesting that your first problem is you have placed that foreign looking black metal device with white markings onto a landy chassis...

Surely if you remove that square have a few pints and then just carry on carry on ;)

That has got to be within Solihull limits - surely

S

[garrywlh]

:twobeers:

[chazza]

Garry, your photo shows a bit of light inside the square, so if that was corrected the bend may not be as bad as it seems.

I had similar damage on my S1 and I approached the repair in the following manner.

1. Measure from the inside face of the dumb-iron to the inside face of the other side where they join the front cross-member. Then measure the distance between the dumb irons at the front where they join with the bumper. I suggest that a tolerance of 3mm would be acceptable. Distrust chassis drawings - I found errors on Land Rover's 80" chassis drawing!
2. When you strip the front springs off, check that the holes in the spring hangers are in line i.e. all four holes on both hangers. I looked through one of the hangers and it didn't look right; so I made a steel bar which fitted firmly in the holes of one hanger. The other end of the bar, which was close to the other hanger, proved that the two hangers were out of alignment.

It is important of course to get this alignment spot-on, otherwise abnormally fast wear will occur to the spring bushes; the main-spring will twist and may break; wheel alignment will be affected and in the worst case will be impossible to correct safely.

A good chassis is like a good foundation under any house - get it right and all will be well; get it wrong and the problems will be endless.

If you would like a copy of an article I wrote on how I repaired my S1 chassis, send me a PM with your email address in it,

Cheers Charlie

[garrywlh]

Thanks very much Charlie, PM on the way.
With just a quick look I can see that the springs do seem to be a little out of alignment.
I agree. If getting the chassis right is going to be too difficult or costly, I'm not going any further with the poor old bloke. Still I want to give him every possible chance before making that call. :(

[chazza]

If you can weld and cut out simple shapes from flat 2mm sheet, you will find the Land Rover chassis a piece of cake to repair. My chassis was a total write-off, but it is back under the car now and it cost me about $20 to fix it, but I was lucky and was given some steel.

If you can't weld, book yourself into the local TAFE and do some night schooling. If you like my article give me a call and I will send the rest of them,

Cheers Charlie

[wally.aussie]

must be a common thing with military 88"er, had to do this to mine a couple of weeks ago. not hard to repair if ya got a gas axe and a bottle jack. must take your time so that you dont stuff it by pushing it too hard with out enough heat. mine was out half an inch, now it's spot on.!! from memory it should be 31" inside measurements, as mine still has the front end still accessable i will measure and get back to ya with the correct ones. i found mine was bent went i stripped it for the re-build, had to get a new bumpper as the po doctered the other one up and needed major work to re-alien holes. easier to get one off one of the other series 2's. if ya need more detail just pm me and i'll help as much as possible.cheers:eek:

[garrywlh]

as a complete newbie, let me say, I love this forum.

Thanks for the tips and advice. Special thanks too to Charlie for emailing the helpful instructional documents.

Still stripping the chassis down, and learning as I go, but I take your word for it that a millimeter-perfect chassis is not necessarily the norm.

I took some measurements today, and noted them down on the Haynes chassis drawing to compare. (My measurements are noted at the bottom of the diagram). Everything seems pretty square and level.

So, if X is supposed to be 787mm, am I right to suppose that Oliver's rear end can be 'expanded' by 5mm from its current 780 or so when the new rear X member gets welded on, and there is no problem with the rest being 791/792, and the left dumb iron can be repaired and straightened out with some basic 'cutting-and-pasting' to expand it from its current 780mm to around 787.

I will soldier on. If Oliver is not resurrected, it won't be because nobody offered me any common sense advice. :)

Garry

[chazza]

So, if X is supposed to be 787mm, am I right to suppose that Oliver's rear end can be 'expanded' by 5mm from its current 780 or so when the new rear X member gets welded on, and there is no problem with the rest being 791/792,

and the left dumb iron can be repaired and straightened out with some basic 'cutting-and-pasting' to expand it from its current 780mm to around 787.

Garry

You may find that when the rear crossmember is removed that the chassis rails spring out, or inwards a bit - they did on mine.

On the front, the essential thing I think, is that the front spring hanger should be in line with the chassis tube, where the rear of the front spring attaches. If your front dumb-iron isn't rusty, then it can be bent into place with a porta-power or similar. I did that on my S3 but I supported the good dumb-iron with a baulk of timber backed up by a post, and I protected the dumb-iron from the jack with a wooden block. Bear in mind that dimension PP needs to be correct as well so that the bumper fits.

You indicate that your chassis is 791mm wide. Did you allow for the small overhang of weld on the chassis seam when you measured it? If not, we can assume that your chassis might actually be about 789mm wide; so if you repair the chassis to be 787mm as you suggest I think that would be satisfactory as it falls within a 4mm tolerance of the widest part of your chassis which is approximately 789-791mm,

Cheers Charlie

[garrywlh]

makes sense. Yes, there is no guarantee my measuring skills are millimeter-perfect either. I was just using a tape, and I can see how weld thickness can interfere with precise measuring.
When the time comes, will be extra careful about PP lengths, as well as ensuring dumb irons are square.
But, I take your main point about the alignment of spring hangers being paramount.
Thanks.

[garrywlh]

Thanks for all the great advice back in May. I now have another question about the chassis.

Has anyone ever replaced the left rear spring hanger - the one with the chassis number - and proceeded through rego? How does that work regarding the number? Do you somehow re-punch the number on the blank? Do you leave it blank and rely on the bulkhead plate number?

Oh, and being a spring hanger, are there any special considerations regarding the strength of the weld, in addition to all the usual ones about getting a good solid bond in exactly the right place?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Garry

[chazza]

Has anyone ever replaced the left rear spring hanger - the one with the chassis number - and proceeded through rego? How does that work regarding the number? Do you somehow re-punch the number on the blank? Do you leave it blank and rely on the bulkhead plate number?

Oh, and being a spring hanger, are there any special considerations regarding the strength of the weld, in addition to all the usual ones about getting a good solid bond in exactly the right place?


Garry

If you haven't put the hanger on yet, it can be stamped with 1/4" stamps when it is supported by something heavy and solid, such as an anvil, or piece of railway track. The stamps are readily available although they won't be exactly the same as the originals - don't tell the inspector and she won't know!

The strength of the welds is critical, because it is on the suspension system and therefore affects the handling of the car if it breaks. If you can't weld, get someone who can, to do it for you,

Cheers Charlie

[garrywlh]

Thanks as always, Charlie. Yes, after a bit of a look around, I see the kind of number punch sets you refer to do seem readily available and not expensive.

No, I am not a competent welder for something this important so will be employing someone to come and do the chassis repairs. I am chasing some quotes at present.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=66866&stc=1&d=1381437787

[John H]

If old land rovers were perfect they wouldnt still be around today.:D