Brake upgrades on TD5

[Blade74]

I have a 2003 TD5 90 and would really like to upgrade the brake system to be a lot more powerful.
It has ABS and traction control so whatever I do has to work well with the system.
I just find that I feel like I'm fighting the car to come to a stop.
Not sure what the discs and pads are but I'm pretty sure they are original Landrover as the car was always serviced by Ritters before I bought it.
It only has 40000kms on the clock.
Not sure if I just need to bleed the fluid but would like to look into stronger calipers and better pads/discs... Would probably upgrade the front first as I'm assuming they have more effect on overall braking.
Any recommendations??

[Vern]

Replace the rubber brake hoses with braided lines, you'll be surprised how much this makes a difference.:)

[Blade74]

Ok mate ill check out some braided brake lines.
Is there some better calipers available with a lot more power?
Or maybe some DBA 4000 XS discs with some better brake pads?
Would they make much difference?

[Blade74]

I noticed there are some braided brake lines with extra 50mm length. Would they be ok on a standard height 90?
Would be nice to know if I did raise it 50mm in the near future that I don't have to buy more braided brake lines.

[Psimpson7]

There are off the shelf kits available.... not cheap tho!

Twisted Store - Brakes (http://www.landrovertuning.com/t/categories/exterior/brakes)

[Yorkshire_Jon]

There are off the shelf kits available.... not cheap tho!

Twisted Store - Brakes (http://www.landrovertuning.com/t/categories/exterior/brakes)

Not cheap at all... But AP Racing kit is excellent and those 6 pot calipers will defo do the job.

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[Blade74]

Holy $&!?,
They are pretty expensive. Don't think I can afford those in a hurry.
Hmm wonder if any other brands do them?

[modman]

Try race brakes in yarraville melbourne
If you find fade with good pads, rotors, fluid ( with braided lines) you're not driving right;)
Howard's a good bloke
Tell him David with the defender sent you

[460cixy]

How hard are you pushing this thing to find there limit? My 110 ute gets a fair work out loaded and no trouble stoping it

[QLDMIKE]

Not sure what size calipers a 90 uses e.g. same as disco 1. 41mm piston. I upgraded my disco to the larger 46mm defender caliper. That made a huge difference. Bigger then the braided lines.

[Blade74]

Not sure what my 90 has. I guess I just notice it more as I came out of a discovery 4 that had unbelievable brakes.
I know other things do effect it like tyre grip on the road but I reckon I can get it to brake better.
It feels like the vacuum assist isn't working as we'll as it should.
If I pump the brakes as I'm braking by the time I pump it the 3rd stroke it feels a lot stronger.
I feel like I would have to push my foot through the floor to get the ABS to kick in.

[BilboBoggles]

my my03 has the same issue. its not fade,just a soft squishy but unresponsive pedal. Its not supposed to be like that, mine was not when new. Its only really apparent when driving another vehicle, for me i am comparing to a new defender. I think on mine there are two causes.
hoses need replacement they are ten years old
servo booster seems to be worn, but more alarmingly you can see it move when you push the pedal.
so two issues that i think combine to make poor brakes.

[isuzurover]

Not sure what my 90 has. I guess I just notice it more as I came out of a discovery 4 that had unbelievable brakes.
I know other things do effect it like tyre grip on the road but I reckon I can get it to brake better.
It feels like the vacuum assist isn't working as we'll as it should.
If I pump the brakes as I'm braking by the time I pump it the 3rd stroke it feels a lot stronger.
I feel like I would have to push my foot through the floor to get the ABS to kick in.

There is a possibility you could have a vacuum leak or a booster on the way out.

Assuming all is in good condition, the best upgrade would be to fit the largest OEM calipers you can (pretty sure 110/130 are larger), plus slotted rotors, plus braided hoses if needed.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

[QUOTE="Blade74;1919516"]...guess I just notice it more as I came out of a discovery 4 that had unbelievable brakes...
/QUOTE]

And I think that's the problem - quite understandably we are comparing apples and oranges.

I've been driving Defenders for 23years and have never thought the brakes were rubbish until I jumped in the 110 on Sunday after driving the wife's car for the weekend.

Nothing has changed on the Defender, they still work 100%, its just that the benchmark has changed.

We need to realize what we are driving and drive accordingly, driven properly they are perfectly adequate. That said, I'd love some AP racing stoppability, but there really is no need.

Jon

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[Wolfman_TWP]

Not sure what my 90 has. I guess I just notice it more as I came out of a discovery 4 that had unbelievable brakes.
I know other things do effect it like tyre grip on the road but I reckon I can get it to brake better.
It feels like the vacuum assist isn't working as we'll as it should.
If I pump the brakes as I'm braking by the time I pump it the 3rd stroke it feels a lot stronger.
I feel like I would have to push my foot through the floor to get the ABS to kick in.


Sounds like you have an air leak in the braking system somewhere.. I have a LR Series 3 I recently upgraded the drum brakes to Defender 90 Discs front and rear. I had the same problem, where I had to pump the brakes 2-3 times before I have a hard pedal. It turns out that my master cylinder had a leak in the bottom of the plastic reservoir bottle. I replaced the whole master cylinder with a new one. Brakes work on the first press.. No more pumping the brakes..

Wolf

[Blade74]

I'll have to look into any possible issues and see if something is causing it to not brake as well as it should.
I totally agree that the defender is nothing like a disco 4 for braking and I'm sure it could never be the same even with mods.
But just like the fact that my car went very average before and since re mapping it and putting a bigger inter cooler on it has made it go so much better I'm sure some upgrades on the brakes can make them brake better.
The re map has turned it into a whole different car.
I don't drive it like a race car but you can accelerate a lot quicker in a shorter distance. Hence I would like to see if I can get it to brake in a shorter distance.
I consider brakes to be very very important so some mods to make them work better is something I am very interested in.

[isuzurover]

...
I totally agree that the defender is nothing like a disco 4 for braking and I'm sure it could never be the same even with mods....

A 90 is about half the weight of a D4, so it should actually be quite easy to get it to stop better than a D4.

[Blade74]

Very true just not sure if the Tyre grip would keep up with the brakes though.. Bf Goodrich all terrains vs disco atr/semi road tyre.

[justinc]

Not sure what my 90 has. I guess I just notice it more as I came out of a discovery 4 that had unbelievable brakes.
I know other things do effect it like tyre grip on the road but I reckon I can get it to brake better.
It feels like the vacuum assist isn't working as we'll as it should.
If I pump the brakes as I'm braking by the time I pump it the 3rd stroke it feels a lot stronger.
I feel like I would have to push my foot through the floor to get the ABS to kick in.

i would also check that you are not getting brake pad knock back with loose wheel bearings. not all that common with td5 era defenders, but worth checking. pad choice is paramount, and as isuzurover has said the 90 is very light, and all the 90's i have driven stop well.


jc

[landybehr]

IIRC all Defender have the 46mm pistons in the callipers in the front. In the rear axle the 130 and 110 have them there too (although halve the number of pistons), while the 90 has there 41mm pistons - and that´s to avoid "overbraking" of the short wheelbased vehicle. Still, if any mod is done it´s needed to be done on the front axle not to be wasted.
Different brake lines can only provide better pedal "feel", can be firmer. But for braking power they change nothing. Air in the system is another topic ;)

(The Disco4 probably has several differences like bigger discs, or whatever. My wife got one as a courtesy car and was impressed by it´s brakes, even though the Disco4 should be heavier than her 110")

Whichever one looks at it - to improve the braking power one has to do something to the friction area, or to the system/hydraulic pressure, or to the relation of the square area of the piston of brake master cylinder vs. calliper pistons. 1 and 3 need different callipers (and maybe even discs), for 2 I have no idea. But that doesn´t mean anything.