NBN contract workers

[Chucaro]

This is a worry, yesterday was the asbestos and just now a fatality :(

[isuzurover]

The project is how large, and involves how many contractors all over Australia???

The death is unfortunate, however with a project this large there will always be issues.

[Chucaro]

I agree Ben that there are about 3,650 contractors working on the network construction but for some to know be aware of the asbestos issue is a gross error by Telstra.
This is a problem, quote:
The Electrical Trades Union's David Mier says he has visited 13 sites around Hobart, with some next to asbestos pits.
He says only a handful of about 100 subcontractors at the sites had received mandatory asbestos safety training.
Was the union aware of this problem before all this issues come to light?

[Hall]

From what I know of asbestos. You don`t normally die for a very long time after coming into contact with it. There is normally several years of slow decline in health. I`d be slightly suspicious of any sudden deaths by asbestos connected to the nbn. There has been cases of no symptoms till some twenty five years later.
Cheers Hall

[FeatherWeightDriver]

A sad day indeed, it sounds like the person killed was not working for NBN Co and the accident was caused by a young bloke who was working (subbie?) for NBN Co

Man crushed by truck at NBN work site - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-31/man-dies-at-nbn-work-site/4726310)

As for the asbestos, it will be very interesting to hear who could have / should have / breached their duty of care.

[bob10]

Unfortunately , mate, it comes down to cost. For a subbie to carry the cost of asbestos removal it takes too much off the profit margin to make it worthwhile. So they take shortcuts. The big companies sub contract out these jobs for that very reason, let the subbies carry the costs. Every sub contracter in Australia knows the rules about asbestos,or at least knows the danger of asbestos, so don't kid yourself. It comes down to the profit margin, that is why Ford walked away. Bob

[Chucaro]

From what I know of asbestos. You don`t normally die for a very long time after coming into contact with it. There is normally several years of slow decline in health. I`d be slightly suspicious of any sudden deaths by asbestos connected to the nbn. There has been cases of no symptoms till some twenty five years later.
Cheers Hall

The problem can be due to increased sensitivity to lung diseases like pneumonia which can be fatal in a person with asbestosis.
In any case not one regardless of his/her age would like to be affected with asbestosis just because it is slow to killing you.

[Chucaro]

Unfortunately , mate, it comes down to cost. For a subbie to carry the cost of asbestos removal it takes too much off the profit margin to make it worthwhile. So they take shortcuts. The big companies sub contract out these jobs for that very reason, let the subbies carry the costs. Every sub contracter in Australia knows the rules about asbestos,or at least knows the danger of asbestos, so don't kid yourself. It comes down to the profit margin, that is why Ford walked away. Bob


Bob, I heard (I do not know if it is true) that the workers at the Penrith site were unable to speak English and were communicating with their foreman in other language.
Assuming that they are new Australians without knowledge of English, how they can be informed about asbestos, it dangers and rules?

[BathurstTom]

The removal/handling of the asbestos is Telstra's responsibility so it isn't the fault of the NBN corp or that of the subbies. Nor is the cost a factor to the subbies. Another great beatup by the media companies which are against the competition that the NBN will give them.

Telstra to employ 200 specialists to tackle asbestos problem | Business Spectator (http://www.businessspectator.com.au/news/2013/5/30/technology/telstra-employ-200-specialists-tackle-asbestos-problem)


Tom.

[Chucaro]

The removal/handling of the asbestos is Telstra's responsibility so it isn't the fault of the NBN corp or that of the subbies. Nor is the cost a factor to the subbies. Another great beatup by the media companies which are against the competition that the NBN will give them.

Telstra to employ 200 specialists to tackle asbestos problem | Business Spectator (http://www.businessspectator.com.au/news/2013/5/30/technology/telstra-employ-200-specialists-tackle-asbestos-problem)


Tom.

Tom, yes, it is Telstra responsibility or fault for not supervise the contractors and for that reason now, quote, Up to 200 specialists will be employed by Telstra in order to mitigate any fears about the risk of asbestos exposure during the NBN rollout.
Having said that I was under the impression that the subcontractors have to have some type of license and knowledge about safety aspects in relation to their work.
Perhaps Telstra overlooked to check if these subcontracting companies have licenses and insurance against negligence?

[Pinelli]

The removal/handling of the asbestos is Telstra's responsibility so it isn't the fault of the NBN corp or that of the subbies. Nor is the cost a factor to the subbies. Another great beatup by the media companies which are against the competition that the NBN will give them.

Telstra to employ 200 specialists to tackle asbestos problem | Business Spectator (http://www.businessspectator.com.au/news/2013/5/30/technology/telstra-employ-200-specialists-tackle-asbestos-problem)

Tom.

Now, now, NBNCo has already stepped up to the plate and taken some responsibility with Telstra. Given they will have their own subbies working on the pits, they need to have an effective asbestos strategy in place, as much as Telstra needs to. This shouldn't be political - it's about 2 big companies not doing the right thing in order to save a few bucks.

[goingbush]

Just my take on the NBN , what a waste of money, will go down in history as one of Australias big white elephants, By the time its finished it will be obsolete. By then they will probably be up to 8G wifi.

There is more asbestos in the Telstra network that at Wittenoon, I was at Telstra 30 years and worked with Asbestos almost daily, its a non issue, never heard of one person in Telecom getting sick or dying from it.

After Telstra I was doing underground pipe and cable locating, if the do-gooders only knew how much asbestos water pipe main was in the ground (often supplying suburbs & towns drinking water) ........ Idiots.

[Chucaro]

The fatalities and people still affected by asbestos who worked in Australia Telecom, in trenches for the Water Board is so big that even the Italian emigrants have a site for it (http://www.au.aiiva.com/).
Thanks to the do-gooders, these victims have some kind of compensation or medial attention that will be not available if was by the ignorant "macho man" that are trying to denying the problems related to asbestos exposure. :mad:

I guess that it is the same as the people that are against immunization and vaccines :mad:

[bob10]

Bob, I heard (I do not know if it is true) that the workers at the Penrith site were unable to speak English and were communicating with their foreman in other language.
Assuming that they are new Australians without knowledge of English, how they can be informed about asbestos, it dangers and rules?

So, 457 workers? probably not. Proves my point, companies sub- contract out , the lowest quote gets it , no- one checks the bona fides, all the subbie boss has to do is complete paperwork to say his mob complies, once again the immigrants , who are desperate for a job, get ripped off by arseholes who know they have a steady supply of workers ready to work for almost nothing, & don't care about their workers or their families. People desperate for work will do whatever it takes. Bob

[goingbush]

The fatalities and people still affected by asbestos who worked in Australia Telecom, in trenches for the Water Board is so big that even the Italian emigrants have a site for it (http://www.au.aiiva.com/).
Thanks to the do-gooders, these victims have some kind of compensation or medial attention that will be not available if was by the ignorant "macho man" that are trying to denying the problems related to asbestos exposure. :mad:

I guess that it is the same as the people that are against immunization and vaccines :mad:

oh forgoodness sake, with all due respect, why so precious, As I said I dont know anyone thats been killed by asbestos, been to more than enough funerals of those that have died in motor accidents, one day somone will realise that too many people are killed in motor vehicle accidents and ban the automobile.
In 100 years time people will look back and wonder how we could be so stupid.

[frantic]

oh forgoodness sake, with all due respect, why so precious, As I said I dont know anyone thats been killed by asbestos, been to more than enough funerals of those that have died in motor accidents, one day somone will realise that too many people are killed in motor vehicle accidents and ban the automobile.
In 100 years time people will look back and wonder how we could be so stupid.

I do:mad:

Telstra has stuck their head in the sand employing a reactionary policy in the hope nobody notices and they can save large amounts by not having to inspect and possibly replace a large number of their pits.
Now a simple question will they limit their inspections to new pits or check all the ones already hooked up?
EVIDENCE.? Telstra has known and publicly admitted the problem since at least 2011! Telstra prepared to remove asbestos from old infrastructure: Mesothelioma News: Kazan McClain Lyons Greenwood & Harley (http://www.mesothelioma-facts.com/mesothelioma-news/Telstra_prepared_to_remove_asbestos_from_old_infra structure)

[V8Ian]

All this hoo har about asbestos; swimming at the beach is probably more dangerous. Asbestos is totally harmless unless you are drilling, cutting, filing or otherwise making dust from it.
To hammer Telstra about it is merely tall poppy syndrome.

[frantic]

All this hoo har about asbestos; swimming at the beach is probably more dangerous. Asbestos is totally harmless unless you are drilling, cutting, filing or otherwise making dust from it.
To hammer Telstra about it is merely tall poppy syndrome.

The problem is the AGE of the pits, (we are talking youngest being 25 years old and some going back to the 19??), where asbestos was used means they will at best be mildly decayed, more than likely in coastal area's they will be crumbling to the touch as any steel rio will be developing cancer and popping the concrete like corn in a hot pot. I know in some of the areas completed including where the bloke was crushed by the NBN truck (Kiama) there would be a far larger percentage of older pits than new burbs like parts of western Sydney or west dapto.


I like to swim at the beach but would you go into deep murky water with a few trawlers dumping fish guts, scales, blood etc. just past the breakers?:twisted:

[Chucaro]

All this hoo har about asbestos; swimming at the beach is probably more dangerous. Asbestos is totally harmless unless you are drilling, cutting, filing or otherwise making dust from it.
To hammer Telstra about it is merely tall poppy syndrome.

Ah, thanks for the clarification, I was under the impression breaking asbestos with a hammer and place the broken bits exposed as it have been done by the contractors was dangerous :p
Poor Telstra is a victim of the do-gooders :(

[goingbush]

yes, its only breathing in asbestos dust that can be a health risk, but it wont kill just anyone that breathes it in, you probably need to be genetically predisposed to contract mesothelioma.

If you've restored a series one or series 2 , or done any brake work on any pre 1980's car you probably have breathed in a fair amount of it, esp when you remove the drake drums, the old brakes shoes were made of .... asbestos

I used to dress the handbrake shoes on a linisher, asbestos dust city.


(its not just asbestos pits in Telstra network, they also have thousands of miles of asbestos ducting (100mm or larger dia conduit/pipes ) in the ground, when your pulling or winching cables thru the ducting there is also a small risk of exposure, but nothing that I've seen in any ohs report about that.)

[frantic]

Unfortunately asbestos is not like smoking where certain genes give a greater chance of cancer. Its more like lead or arsenic where it will eventually get you but its a race to see if another illness kills you first. Why do you think the asbestos works run by hardies from the 40's till closure was known as the old mans factory? Simple reason was hardies knew it was a killer product that in most cases took 25+ years to take effect so to hide this they only hired workers 40-45+ as by the time asbestoses took full effect they could blame it on the blokes age( remember avg age was 67 in the 40's). This was all published several years ago. The funny thing is smokers suffered less because the ciggies would act as a partial filter reducing the amount that got in and this was in an era when a far larger number of shop floor workers smoked.

[isuzurover]

Unfortunately asbestos is not like smoking where certain genes give a greater chance of cancer.

...


Actually it is when it comes to cancer (mesothelioma) though perhaps to a lesser extent.

over 20000 people lived at Wittenoom at its peak, only ~800 of those have developed mesothelioma, which is about the same rate as cancer among smokers.

There are 2 different diseases, asbestosis and mesothelioma (a cancer caused only by asbestos). Asbestosis is like silicosis and seems to be largely dose related. Only a small number of people with asbestosis will bet mesothelioma, and that appears to be related to genetic predisposition.

However, asbestos related diseases are serious, and have not yet reached their peak in AU.

[bob10]

During my time in the Navy, in my role in the Engineering branch, we worked on steam pipes & associated equipment. We breathed the asbestos fibres in. I have lost a few good mates, to the mongrel disease. I have plural plaques on my lungs, from asbestos. Not a worry yet, but.... Still, the water we distilled close up to the Vietnamese coast, for drinking, has been proven to contain much more of Agent Orange, than is recommended for a long life. It helps one focus on the important things in life, & not the petty issues. Bob