Poor Land Rover Service

[wasssup]

I have had my Freelander 2 since new, over 4 years, it has been a great vehicle, after my recent experience with Land Rover Service though, I would struggle to spend another single dollar of my own money on another Land Rover after the appalling service I received from a dealer in Perth, and the subsequent response from Land Rover Australia. Basically I gave Land Rover Australia a chance to respond, in my mind, I got a ‘we couldn’t care less’ letter. So im posting my experience online :) Don’t get me wrong, I love my freelander2, but the people behind the brand have some coaching required.

- Land Rover Australia’s response was to complain to the Service Manager, what good would that do? The Service Manager was the one providing the appalling service

- All Land Rover had to do was arrange a refund of the $322 dollars I outlaid for ‘diagnostics’, they have already lost two new car sales as a result, such a short sighted approach from Land Rover Australia.

- The short version of the story below is, I collected my vehicle after Lander Rover Service couldn’t find the fault after 3 weeks. after 20mins on Google, I decide the EGR valve is faulty, after finding out a replacement in Australia is $450 +GST, I order a genuine one online for the grand sum of $125 and install It myself – this show the incompetence of Land Rover and I fixed at home with my toolset what they couldn’t even diagnose in 3 weeks with a workshop.

Here is a timeline of the debacle:

Day 1:
I drop my vehicle to Land Rover Service for repair (after already explaining the issue on the phone) I explain the issue to a second person for a second time

Later in the day at 4pm I receive a phone call the the problem (no power on take off) cannot be replicated, I ask can the car stay overnight for more testing the the next day as the vehicle is dangerous to drive when it occurs, (imagine pulling out of an intersection suddenly with no power, think monash highway 2011 when a VW owner was killed with a suspected sudden loss of power from the vehicle being the cause)

Day 2:
I receive a phone call from Land Rover Service at 3pm, I am advised that they still cannot replicate the issue, I am advised to come collect the vehicle. I collect the vehicle, I barely drive 500m before I am presented with no power and the car stuck in an intersection. I limp the vehicle back to Land Rover, The workshop foreman comes to look at the vehicle, he can observes the vehicle has no power, and explains he plugged the computer in and found no faults, I have to remind him several times, that even though the computer has no faults, clearly the is a fault with the vehicle. The foreman continues to tell me the computer is telling him no faults which is getting increasingly frustrating when he is sitting in a vehicle that has no power!

I live no-where near the dealership, I am left at 5pm to find my own way home after being told my vehicle was fine to collect, I receive no offer of transport or loan vehicle, even though I had just left my vehicle with Land Rover for two days.

Day 3:
I receive a phone call in the afternoon from Land Rover Service, they advise they have no finished with the vehicle and would need it overnight again, I ask to be phoned Friday morning with an update.

Day 4:
By 2pm I have not received an update from service reception. I phone to get an update, the main reception cannot connect me to service so I leave a message.

At 3pm, I receive a phone call from the main receptionist, I am told the service department is busy and will call me back with an update by end of the day.

At 4:50pm (on a Friday very poor form) I receive a phone call from Land Rover saying that my vehicle still is not fixed, I am told that in Land Rovers own words ‘We are at a loss as to what the problem is’ to me that can be interpreted as the vehicle will never work again, I took my Land Rover back to the Land Rover dealer expecting I would have experts looking after the vehicle, I am then told they don’t know how to fix it?

It is at this point Land Rover Service says perhaps it is bad diesel (after I had pointed out all week long the problem started directly after refueling) I am also concerned of additional damage to the engine the dealer may have caused continuing to run the engine with bad fuel.

Land Rover offer that I can collect the vehicle for the weekend, I find this action dangerous and completely un-professional

The vehicle is clearly a hazard on the road as it will barely move from a standstill, providing unexpected road behavior.
- If the Service Department do not know what the problem is, how do they know driving it won’t cause more damage to the engine.

Land Rover Service then go onto say the only next course of action is to drop the fuel tank out of the vehicle and to drain the diesel as it is most likely the cause.

Day 7:
I receive a phone call from Land Rover Service again, Land Rover advise they are no longer sure if bad diesel is the fault, without reason, Land Rover suggest a fuel test be completed that will take an additional 3-5days before any further work is completed. I phone Land Rover Australia at this point questioning my level of Service provided from this dealer, after a phone call from Land Rover Australia we agree to wait for fuel test results.

Day 18: (Yes, that’s right, they have had my vehicle this long and left without a vehicle over the easter break)
I phone to find out what is happening with the fuel test. I was advised that my fuel test results had only 'just come back' and that in the words of Land Rover, 'we are not sure what to do next, we were thinking of pulling the injectors out to send those away for testing' I'm sorry, but after I have previously been advised from Land Rover on a separate phone call that, and I quote in the words of Land Rover Service"We are at a loss as to the cause" I really had no confidence in the ability of Land Rover Service and realised that it would be best I collect my vehicle from Land Rover and use someone more qualified to fix a Land Rover than Land Rover themselves- someone like myself. I advise Land Rover Service I will collect my vehicle on Wednesday the 10th April.

Day 22:
Upon arriving to collect my vehicle, I am presented with a bill for (I think I was $650 and something) for diagnostic services, I negotiate this down to $322, at this point I just wanted my Freelander2 back so I could get the thing fixed. After 20mins on google, I decide the EGR valve is faulty, after finding out a replacement in Australia is $450 +GST, I order one off Ebay for the grand sum of $125 and install It myself, at home, and the vehicle is now running perfectly – this show the incompetence of Land Rover and I fixed at home with not much more than a socket set and some spanners. What Land Rover couldn’t even diagnose in 3 weeks with a workshop – oh and by the way, im not a mechanic, I work in IT, and the injectors did not need pulling out and sending away for testing.

I wrote all of the above to Land Rover Australia, asking for a refund of the $322 in diagnostics, nothing more, here was their response:
“Thank you for your email dated 27th May 2013, which relates to the service you have experienced at ********** Land Rover.
In relation to servicing issues, we advise that repair work carried out under your instruction by the Service Department of each Land Rover retailer is warranted by the retailer involved. Accordingly, Land Rover Australia does not maintain any record of such work and therefore any concerns that may arise need to be directed to the Service Manager of the retailer involved.
Land Rover Australia is committed to providing the highest level of products and services to our customers as well as continually improving the level of owner satisfaction. Our retailer network plays a large part in this and your feedback assists us in ensuring that our commitments are being met at all times.
We trust that this clarifies our standing and thank you for the opportunity to review your concern and advise you in this matter.
Should you wish to discuss this matter further then please don’t hesitate to contact me on the number below, Monday to Friday, 08:00 to 18:00 (EST).”

[grahamjohn]

'Appalling' is the right word for the 'service' you received and 'appalling' is the right word for the response you received from Land Rover Australia. Basically, Land Rover Australia is saying they don't care what Land Rover dealers are doing in their name, which is a bit stupid. It will make me think twice about using a Land Rover dealer when there are a few independent shops that service Land Rovers over here in Sydney. I feel like emailing LR Australia a link to your thread and asking them how they can convince me this won't happen to me. The only response that I would consider even remotely appropriate would be for the dealer and Land Rover Australia to apologise to you and reimburse you your $322. On second thoughts, they probably don't care about one or two unhappy customers.

I have just bought a Freelander MY13 SE SD4 and love it. It's the best car, so far, I have ever owned. The Customer Care people in LR Australia rang me yesterday to see how I like the car etc etc and asked me if I would recommend LR to others. I gave a qualified yes, given that I have only owned the car for a month. However, if I had read about your experience before the phone call I would have told them of my concerns.

Congratulations on solving and fixing the problem yourself. If you were over here on the East Coast I would get you to do my servicing!

I think you should post your comments on one of the more general forums so more people get to see what LR Australia really think of their customers.

[RockJaw]

Listen, we hear you.

Our mining engineering group owns LR in UK, Ireland, USA, South Africa and Canada and after years of using the best 4X4XFAR I finally arrived in OZ 11 years ago and was real confused why Aussies preferred Japanese branded 4X4s!

HuH? Are you serious?

Boy, did I learn the hard way - lol

2002 Disco bought new in Sydney, trashed by ******** LR in less than 8 months - LR Australia? Yawned!

2005 Range Rover Vogue, new, trashed by ********** in 14 months - LR Australia? too scared of the dealer to do anything, had to beat the dealer in court to get my money back.

2008 Range Rover, new, dumb enough to come back for more this one was trashed by ******** in 9 months. Sold to some poor sucker who used to think Land Rover Australia sells a good after sales product. Poor bastard! :)

2009 Toyota Landie - still running beauty!! Will buy another one of these soon.

2010 G55 Gelandewagen - W A Z Z A ! ! ! no more Range Rover 4 me mate, Autobiography? what? From LR Australia? Only for the suckers mate! The G55 is a REAL man's fourbie!! and still gonna run like a beauty 10 years time! By the way, not just a great truck, they have a REALLY great after sales service too!


BOTTOM LINE : Land Rover Australia thinks they belong to some exclusive club where their customers are excluded from membership.

The dealers know this and they realise they can get away with bloody murder because LR Australia customer support is a complete waste of time.

What a shame, this is great product owned by a mob of useless, dishonest and incompetent bums.

We still own LR in the other countries, bought the latest Autobiography in Toronto, real nice, but in Australia? Give us Japanese and Korean cars mate, life's too short to put up with bums like those running LR Australia.

When in Australia do like the REAL Aussies do, they buy Toyota. Only suckers and immigrants buy LR lol.

Everywhere else?

Land Rover rocks big time!

[Disco Muppet]

When in Australia do like the REAL Aussies do, they buy Toyota. Only suckers and immigrants buy LR lol.


Riiiiiiiight.
You'll forgive me if I'm less than enthused by you declaring me to not be a "real aussie" simply because I bought a Land Rover.
I'm not denying there is a trend of simply appalling customer service by Land Rover outlets in Australia, there's also some absolutely top-notch service.
I notice this is your one and only post, you joined the forum simply to slag off LRA?
Well done you.
However I doubt you'll get a particularly warm welcome from the rest of us suckers and immigrants with your attitude.
Cheers
Muppet

[Xtreme]

Don't worry Muppet, it's actually the REAL AUSSIES that own Landys DESPITE the often less than satisfactory dealer service. :D
Only those who can't handle the tough times wimp out. :wasntme:

[solmanic]

2010 G55 Gelandewagen - W A Z Z A ! ! ! no more Range Rover 4 me mate, Autobiography? what? From LR Australia? Only for the suckers mate! The G55 is a REAL man's fourbie!! and still gonna run like a beauty 10 years time! By the way, not just a great truck, they have a REALLY great after sales service too...

I agree. Mercedes-Benz provides a level of sucking-up I never experienced with any Land Rover dealer. Not once did I receive any sort of follow-up from Land Rover service about whether I was satisfied with work they had done and twice the same dealer totally failed to even call me back when I was looking to buy new.

I sent Land Rover customer "care" a nice letter when I bought my G-Wagen with a picture and explanation of how bad I thought their customer service was. I also included how much that had just cost them. Not surprisingly I never got a reply.

[RockJaw]

Riiiiiiiight.

I notice this is your one and only post, you joined the forum simply to slag off LRA?
Well done you.
However I doubt you'll get a particularly warm welcome from the rest of us suckers and immigrants with your attitude.
Cheers
Muppet

Strangely, no, you're wrong, I rang LRA earlier today for information on a past model (2008) Defender and it was their customer service who referred me to this site after the various dealers they put me through to had no idea about the products they sold a mere 5 years ago. Actually, their product knowledge of current products was not much better either.

After a lot of "errrm" and "uhhhh" and "dunno": a "not sure" I just rang Singapore for the quick answers.

Might forgive a dealer for lack of product enthusiasm, but what is Head Office's excuse? LoL

I joined the site to access information only available to members and came across the OP's justified rant.

Sorry bud, as a past experiences man who is well over the LRA disappointment now, I just couldn't resist the post, and besides, warm welcomes are not what LR owners are really after.

:D

[Disco Muppet]

You might be surprised, this forum is full of excellent people who are only too happy to help out, and be perfectly friendly about it.
It's one thing to have an issue with the cars, the people who sell them, etc.
It's another to make (what seemed to me) to be a rude generalisation about the people who own them.
However, water under the bridge and all that.
Welcome to AULRO. ;)
Cheers
Muppet

[RockJaw]

You might be surprised, this forum is full of excellent people who are only too happy to help out, and be perfectly friendly about it.
It's one thing to have an issue with the cars, the people who sell them, etc.
It's another to make (what seemed to me) to be a rude generalisation about the people who own them.
However, water under the bridge and all that.
Welcome to AULRO. ;)
Cheers
Muppet

Thanks for the welcome!!! :)

.... and I'm an owner too so I'm used to insults :(

[alittlebitconcerned]

To the OP, I very much understand he disappointment and frustration you are feeling, I personally know a few people who share this sentiment. Unfortunately I doubt this thread will last very long due to the site owner not wanting to get sued, regardless of the truth. Cant blame them.

Before the thread disappears I will go on record (as I do at every opportunity LR!) and say that far and away the worst service I have have ever received was from LRA and the crappy dealerships I dealt with. Crooks, liars and fools.

I, and the people around me, were honestly in a state of constant incredulity for each and every month I had the misfortune of dealing with them. Don't believe the zealots when they say all companies are the same, they're not. LR and their cronies are a special breed.

Goodbye thread.

[incisor]

Don't believe the zealots when they say all companies are the same, they're not. LR and their cronies are a special breed.

Goodbye thread.

not quite so fast.

not trying to defend the indefensible but

Whilst LRA may have been the worst "you" have encountered it has been my own personal experience that others are tarred with the same brush and are just as bad if not worse, not that it justifies their actions in any way shape or form.

the industry as a whole is built on falsehoods and until we have REAL lemon laws it shall stay that way. Non disclosure clauses should be declared illegal as well...

i have fought another brands manufacturer for months and months to get satisfaction on a problem with a vehicle. in the end a german engineer picked the problem and sent the dealer a different set of engine mounts and the issue was sorted... they delivered to my shop and the exhaust fell off as they entered the parking lot :eek:

it shouldn't have to be that way.... very very debilitating

my current work vehicle is going in for its end of warranty service in a couple of weeks... am about to rattle a few cages to see if the recall that isnt a recall applies to my vehicle.

i was hoping the Australian Consumer Guarantee would help reign in the recalcitrant organisations, it is yet to happen on a broad scale.

i want to buy a new LR myself but ...... there is getting to be more and more stories with the same or similar content.

i was so wanting a new defender but doubt i would wish that on myself after some of the horror stories i have seen on here of late... balls just aint that big i don't think and i will wimp out and get a td5 or another 300tdi.

[Disco Muppet]

i will wimp out and get a td5 or another 300tdi.

Go on Inc.....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/60.jpg (http://s1166.photobucket.com/user/DiscoMuppet/media/keep-calm-and-join-the-dark-side-42_zpsa4f8f33d.png.html)

You know you want to :twisted: :angel:

[superquag]

Interesting...

My recent experience with a '95 Classic. - Shrt story is the (plastic) fuel tanks were a problem, leaks could develop around the breather holes, and on the filler neck. - Manufacturer issue.
Anyway, there was a recall issued not long after and I understand that in the US, ALL Range Rovers between certain VIN numbers were recalled and tanks replaced, whether they leaked or not.

In Australia, the same thing applied except, replacement was only offered if/when the offending tanks leaked. (In fairness, most did'nt.) This campaign is still active, - strange but true - and when I contacted LRA, they readily agreed that this was so and gave me the go-ahead to present the Black Hole to a Dealer for inspection.
Yes, it was leaking in the prescribed fashion, LRA would arrange a replacement tank from the UK, and pay for fitting etc.
I suppose I should'nt mention the Dealer, but he's the nearest one to me in the Southern suburbs...
NO criticisms of the work or result. - It is a nice change to fill the tank and not smell petrol... Car was done in the time-frame promised and the Experience made as painless as possible.

A few weeks later, LRA sent me a letter and invited me to do an online Customer Survey. Those who've seen them would recognize the little "comments" boxes alongside most questions...and yes, I DID make use of them with, ahem, 'appropriate and honest' comments about their product. Those boxes seem to have no limit as to how much you write....:angel:

The Dealer gets a good passing mark, but the Product pedalled by the shysters of Solihull does not. Somehow I doubt the (LR) Powers That Be will ever read my remarks....
Or care.

A local businessman took advantage of that generous tax write-off some years ago, bought a new diesel Disco... and after being 'flat-bedded' back 3 out of 4 times from up-state holiday trips...got very fed up with the (same!) Dealer and after being told - privately by someone in the know - that his (lemon-coloured...) Pride & Joy was 'guaranteed' to fail again after the last batch of Warranty work.... traded up to a Tojo. Not ONE break-down or warranty issue in the years since.
Still reckons the Disco was nicer driving/more capable, but impractical to own.

Interesting bit is.... turned out that the EGR valve was at the heart of all it's breakdowns.!

Must admit, I've always wondered why Land Rovers are so popular and highly regarded everywhere in the world, - except here in Oz.
Maybe we're a bit more practical.

Or honest...

James in Gosnells,
1995 Vogue SE, with working Air suspension, Cruise Control, - and Rear-wheel drive...:eek:

[solmanic]

Must admit, I've always wondered why Land Rovers are so popular and highly regarded everywhere in the world, - except here in Oz.

The thing that makes Land Rovers so problematic in Australia is that we are one of the few countries that has a big back yard and tons of leisure travellers. And the outback is pretty much devoid of Land Rover service centres so whenever anything goes wrong in your shiny new vehicle you can bet that it will end your holiday.

When I bought my Defender I had high hopes that Ford (owners of LR at the time) might offer Land Rover servicing at their network of dealerships. Didn't happen, then they sold the company. Now unless you buy a Range Rover and operate exclusively within 100km of a capital city you are treated like a leper. LRA seem to want all the Defender buyers to just go away. They have this annoying habit of being adventurous and wanting to actually use their vehicles for their intended purpose. This has the unfortunate effect of testing Land Rover's marketing claims and forums like this are full of guys shouting through a megaphone when something breaks.

[JamesB71]

I havent even received mine and Im already appalled at the service I have gotten from LR dealer here in western sydney. Ive mentioned it in another thread... but I organised to test drive a 90 through email with their saslesman. Drive the 2 hours to the dealer. Got told that they car is parked in and to come back another day. Drove 2 hours home.

Emailed the manager. Got fobbed off. Since then I have been getting spam emails from their various staff members who will be only too willing to help me organise finance to buy one of their vehicles.

I dont need finance and I wont be buying from them anyway.

I have the bad feeling that if anything goes wrong with my new car I am up for a miserable 5 years dealing with warranty issues.

Re Toyotas:- Ive had Hiluxes for over a decade. Ive never had to put a spanner on one. The current one is a 2003 and hasnt missed a single beat. If my foray into defenders isnt satisfactory, its where I will return to. Im hoping not to have to....

[Ean Austral]

After buying a D1 off a Perth dealer years ago and basically getting left on the side of the road with a broken timing belt and a dealer not even trying to help, I have avoided dealerships as much as possible.

I wrote to L/R australia about what happened to me and the attitude of the dealer in Perth, and not even recieving a reply from them either ,I vowed never to buy new from a L/R dealer again. It was even worse in WA as both the city dealerships were owned by the same people, so couldnt win.

Its sad that a brand that has so much potential gets let down by its management structure.

I have heard some bad stories about all brands especially Toyota here in Darwin, but agree with what Inc say's the only way this will get reigned in is by some proper laws relating to lemons in the motoring industry.

Wont be holding my breath.

Cheers Ean

[tuesdayfox]

same here.

I went to Dealer A in Sydney and put down the deposit of $1k. I changed my mind next morning as I realized I was ripped off. went there again and utilised my right to cancel the contract within the cooling period.

waited two months till they "processed" the refund and two visits at the dealer were required. One is for "we need your credit card here, sir"- the same credit card used to pay the deposit.

what can I say.

anyway I went to another dealer and got a great deal and now a proud owner of a defender.

[incisor]

Re Toyotas:- Ive had Hiluxes for over a decade. Ive never had to put a spanner on one. The current one is a 2003 and hasnt missed a single beat. If my foray into defenders isnt satisfactory, its where I will return to. Im hoping not to have to....

i'm sorry but for my money you have unrealistic expectations.

your comparing a mass produced, mildly capable, bland and soulless piece of equipment with a hand built mecanno set, assembled by poms with loving care and attention as only they can, and most importantly very capable drum on wheels.

of cause you going to have more issues.

if those issues are dealt with as they should be you'll end up loving it

sadly, it seems that more and more those issues aren't being dealt with as they should be and it wont end happily.

[JamesB71]

Far be it from me to cast aspersions, given that I am buying one and don't want to be in furious agreement with anyone, but shouldn't all that loving hand assembled quality result in less problems rather than more?

[Disco Muppet]

shouldn't all that loving hand assembled quality result in less problems rather than more?

Mass production usually uses far more robots, which tends to minimise the human error factor.
And these are poms we're talking about :p

[disco2_dan]

Riiiiiiiight.
You'll forgive me if I'm less than enthused by you declaring me to not be a "real aussie" simply because I bought a Land Rover.
I'm not denying there is a trend of simply appalling customer service by Land Rover outlets in Australia, there's also some absolutely top-notch service.
I notice this is your one and only post, you joined the forum simply to slag off LRA?
Well done you.
However I doubt you'll get a particularly warm welcome from the rest of us suckers and immigrants with your attitude.
Cheers
Muppet

Well said muppet, I guess his right I must be an immagrant seeing as how I can trace my ancestry back to the 1st fleet!!! But then again that prob makes me a criminal too!
Now I totally agree you got BAD service and I would never go back and give them one more cent of my hard earned money!!
I would ask around on this forum and find myself a good independent LR mechanic and take it there because this guy owns his business it's in his best interest to keep his customers happy....
That's just what I would do
Oh I'm glad you still love your landy after such a bad run of experience
But you know what they say..... Time apart makes the heart grow fonder lol

[JamesB71]

Im a long way from the nearest LR dealer. Should I just skip the dealer all together and have the servicing done by my long term mechanic who has always done a good job by me? I know that its illegal to void a warranty as long as the mechanic is licenced, but what is the reality of that?

[cooperrat]

as mentioned earlier in a thread , i had ordered a defender a few months back and have been trying to get a delivery date from the dealer to no avail. So rang LRA yesterday for an answer.Jess at the other end of the line said they would get back to me the same day .I hung up not feeling super confidant that it would happen Less than two hours later she rang me to say it was going to the managers and ..hang on an email appeared in front of her as she was speaking and I now have date into the docks the date I can pick it up, the ships name and the colour of the socks the captain is wearing! I can even track the boat via an app..if only the dealer could have told me , still had NO word from him tho.......I shant hold my breath..catchya

[Michael78]

The dealer I have ordered my Freelander 2 through has been great, When I've asked a non-standard sales question he had an answer within an hour.

When I booked a defender for a test drive and ended up taking a Freelander and Evoque for a spin, He was good about all the questions until I called the evoque a chicks car.

Evey time i've requested an order update the dealer has responded with a progress update and confirmation of delivery of date within a 2-3 hours of sending the email. He has offered the tracking number but it's more fun coming up with a non-standard question to test his product knowledge.

I haven't had to deal with LRA yet and hope I never have to.

[mudder110]

don't come to cairns no such thing as good anything up here I believe a good mechanic should all ways offer to give back all old parts removed or at least show them to you.
went to both landrover mechanics here first one used second hand parts second one left suspension nuts lose hit a speed bump to find out shocky turrets wernt done up could write quit a list now looking for a shed to maybe rent now and then to do my own work.:mad:

[Ferret]

... And these are poms we're talking about :p

Poms could run a better dealership than the current mob in Perth. :D


Should I just skip the dealer all together and have the servicing done by my long term mechanic who has always done a good job by me? I know that its illegal to void a warranty as long as the mechanic is licenced, but what is the reality of that?

I have recently had a conversation with my Perth dealer after a mate pointed out the wrong grade of oil had been used in my D4 as listed on the invoice after a service. The dealers response was along the lines of

"what grade of oil should it be?" :eek:
"it does not matter, that grade will be OK." :eek:
"It's just a typo, the right grade was used." :mad:

The dealers attitude to the warranty provisions shows me there is nothing to be gained from using a dealer (at least this particular Perth dealer) than using any other licensed mechanic.

When making future warranty claims and the service records from your licensed mechanic show Landrover recommendations are not followed you can just say 'it doesn't matter or 'it's just a typo' - there should be no problem. Apologies for the sarcasm.

An oil sample from the vehicle is currently being tested, I'm curious to know just what was used.

[mikehzz]

You will miss out on warranty claims where they say you didn't have such and such an inspection at the correct time. You also miss out on computer updates. I still use my local, I trust him to do what he says and he's a lot cheaper and more convenient than driving 70 kms each way to the closest dealer.

[JamesB71]

As I pessimistically predicted the LR dealer managed to **** up the delivery of my 90. It's been screwed up 4 times now with no end in sight. This is to buy one off the showroom floor...

I wonder whether they will pull their act together before I lose patience and cancel the order.

[RockJaw]

Mass production usually uses far more robots, which tends to minimise the human error factor.
And these are poms we're talking about :p



Come on Disco, that is a pure cop out, and well you know it mate.

The Gelandewagon has far more hand produced components in it and much more of the assembly process is done by hand than any Land Rover.

I have met tonnes of dissatisfied Aussie LR owners (mainly service, not product) but I am yet to meet a dissatisfied G-Wagon owner bud.

Hand assembled G-Wagons ROCK big time, but after sales service and customer care ROCKS even more. Can't say the same for LRA mate.

[Disco Muppet]

Come on Disco, that is a pure cop out, and well you know it mate.

The Gelandewagon has far more hand produced components in it and much more of the assembly process is done by hand than any Land Rover.

I have met tonnes of dissatisfied Aussie LR owners (mainly service, not product) but I am yet to meet a dissatisfied G-Wagon owner bud.

Hand assembled G-Wagons ROCK big time, but after sales service and customer care ROCKS even more. Can't say the same for LRA mate.

Not at all, eliminating human error is a key reason why robots are used in mass production. As such, the first part of my statement stands. If you're taking offence at the second part well then :tease:

It's also important to look at context, no?
James was talking about his Hilux, then asked why hand made vehicles would have more issues.
There are squillions of hiluxes out there, they've been making them for yonks and Toyota have gotten very good at making run-for-half-a-million-kms, boring, expensive white goods, which is what the Hilux is.
So my context about mass production and human error (or the removal of) was talking about Toyotas.
I'm not defending Land Rover for build quality issues, or making statements about any other manufacturers as I don't know anything about them. I can't explain the difference in two hand made vehicles, perhaps it's a German/British thing, perhaps all the people at Solihull feel that if it doesn't require constant tinkering it's somehow detracting from the owners true Land Rover experience. I simply don't know.
Quite frankly I don't really care, I'm happy with my LR, including, I might add, the service and feedback I receive from my local Land Rover service centres, dealership and private. :)
Believe me, I bleed green and gold, Land Rovers have been in my family since they existed, but I'm not so one eyed as that I can't accept the very obvious and disappointing problems they suffer from.

[RockJaw]

Not at all, eliminating human error is a key reason why robots are used in mass production. As such, the first part of my statement stands. If you're taking offence at the second part well then :tease:

It's also important to look at context, no?
James was talking about his Hilux, then asked why hand made vehicles would have more issues.
There are squillions of hiluxes out there, they've been making them for yonks and Toyota have gotten very good at making run-for-half-a-million-kms, boring, expensive white goods, which is what the Hilux is.
So my context about mass production and human error (or the removal of) was talking about Toyotas.
I'm not defending Land Rover for build quality issues, or making statements about any other manufacturers as I don't know anything about them. I can't explain the difference in two hand made vehicles, perhaps it's a German/British thing, perhaps all the people at Solihull feel that if it doesn't require constant tinkering it's somehow detracting from the owners true Land Rover experience. I simply don't know.
Quite frankly I don't really care, I'm happy with my LR, including, I might add, the service and feedback I receive from my local Land Rover service centres, dealership and private. :)
Believe me, I bleed green and gold, Land Rovers have been in my family since they existed, but I'm not so one eyed as that I can't accept the very obvious and disappointing problems they suffer from.

Not being adversarial here bud. I survived an AP mine explosion in a Defender, so I am as much the LR enthusiast as any other, but this is not a footy team we're talking about here, it is a product, and a damned expensive one too.

Read my posts, the product is great, especially in most other countries. Since part of any good product is the after sales service, well then the product just has much less lustre here.

Your point concerning human error vs machines is taken, but it is misplaced. No machine invented replaces a SKILLED human operator. Semi-skilled? ye well, perhaps there are a few machines better to support your argument here.

Apart from the highly engineered componentry, PROPERLY hand produced products have always outperformed machine assembled products. Tata vs Hilux? here I would support your argument, Hilux is better.:p

Pommie labourers?

Who knows?

No comment.

[Grumbles]

Just to put forward a different perspective. A mate has a P38 and camper trailer which he drives from Victoria to Perth each year for his annual holiday.

His last trip earlier this year resulted in a problem with the car. He drove in to the Perth LR dealer unannounced and explained the problem. They immediately began work on the car and two hours later it is good to go. He asked how much and was told 'have a happy holiday - no charge'.

[JamesB71]

Is my car actually likely to be produced by Pommies? Where are defenders sourced for the australian market? I know they are made in a few different factories around the world. Which one is ours?

[Bigbjorn]

Is my car actually likely to be produced by Pommies? Where are defenders sourced for the australian market? I know they are made in a few different factories around the world. Which one is ours?

Doesn't matter what country. Assembly line workers are low paid, unskilled, and usually not white & English speaking.

When I was in the industry and conversations got around to build quality there was usually someone who would say 'Australians can't build good cars.' My normal response was to say that Australians don't build our cars. They were then being built by Turks, Lebanese, Egyptians, Greeks, Yemenis, Yugoslavs, Vietnamese.

[JamesB71]

Ok let me rephrase the question..... are they made in England? Or India? Or China?

[Pickles2]

Ours are made at Solihull U.K.
Over the years, Land Rovers have been made in many Countries, in many shapes & forms, some from CKD kits etc. Before the "current" range of 90s were released here a few years ago, I believe the previously imported ones came from South Africa.
Cheers, Pickles.

[JamesB71]

thanks Pickles. For some reason, in spite of the genetic heritage of the people on the line I still feel someone comforted that something is still made in the country in which it was designed.

[Pickles2]

thanks Pickles. For some reason, in spite of the genetic heritage of the people on the line I still feel someone comforted that something is still made in the country in which it was designed.
Same here! (Not only the same Country, but the same premises!)
Cheers, Pickles.

[Bigbjorn]

the outback is pretty much devoid of Land Rover service centres so whenever anything goes wrong in your shiny new vehicle you can bet that it will end your holiday.

When I bought my Defender I had high hopes that Ford (owners of LR at the time) might offer Land Rover servicing at their network of dealerships. Didn't happen, then they sold the company.

Few country towns other than major centres have an LR dealer. When I was at Leyland Truck and Bus we had dealers in places as small as Dirranbandi and Thargomindah and Morven. Many don't have a big three dealer anymore, or only one of the three. In fact some quite prosperous small country centres no longer have a car dealer at all. So good luck getting service for complex modern cars in small centres like Winton or even Longreach. The makers did a slash and burn job to save themselves in hard times. Keith Horner started this at Ford in the seventies. It costs money to service a dealership so dealers that sold few cars, say 20 a year or less got the shove and if surviving are sub-dealers or spotters for a major dealer elsewhere.

[RockJaw]

Just to put forward a different perspective. A mate has a P38 and camper trailer which he drives from Victoria to Perth each year for his annual holiday.

His last trip earlier this year resulted in a problem with the car. He drove in to the Perth LR dealer unannounced and explained the problem. They immediately began work on the car and two hours later it is good to go. He asked how much and was told 'have a happy holiday - no charge'.

Great stuff!!!

:D