Electronic Park Brake keeps failing

[adventure]

Hi folks,

The Electronic Park Brake on my 2007 D3 fails every 10,000kms and is replaced. It's been completely replaced at least 4 times.

The first time I paid for it and each time since has been under warranty. My mechanic is now suggesting he may not replace it again under warranty. This is clearly unacceptable in the circumstances and I'm not really keen on having to fight them over the issue.

I'd appreciate any feeback from anyone who's had problems with their EPBs that I might be able to pass on to the mechanic to encourage them to look for the root cause.

Nick

[discotwinturbo]

I heard a D3 playing music the other day at Southerns.....never actually heard the sound before.....it actually sounded like a tune!

My service guy said that they now make an adjustment at every service and seems to be curing this issue. If this is the case, maybe this is not occurring ?

Brett.....

[~Rich~]

My last 2 vehicles where Landcruisers with their crap handbrake! Just leave it in Park. It was best not to use it unless you where on a hill!
I've kept the same theory with my D3 and have not had any problems with it.
Only use it when required, save it for those times.

[baldivistribe]

Exactly thats why the auto gearbox has a p for. P for park.
Someone once said r is for race but im not game to try that one.
Cheers
steve

[alpick]

Service schedule contains adjust handbrake each @ service.

[101RRS]

My service guy said that they now make an adjustment at every service and seems to be curing this issue.


Service schedule contains adjust handbrake each @ service.

Exactly but as usual I bet these are are not being done - but they are happy to take your money.

[AnD3rew]

My last 2 vehicles where Landcruisers with their crap handbrake! Just leave it in Park. It was best not to use it unless you where on a hill!
I've kept the same theory with my D3 and have not had any problems with it.
Only use it when required, save it for those times.


That's not a great idea, the park setting lock is just a metal pin, it can break and let go which can both let the vehicle roll and causes expensive damage to the transmission. It also keeps the driveline components under stress if you park on a slope without also using the handbrake.

It is recommended to put the handbrake on before engaging park and to always use the handbrake.

[101RRS]

That's not a great idea, the park setting lock is just a metal pin, it can break and let go which can both let the vehicle roll and causes expensive damage to the transmission. It also keeps the driveline components under stress if you park on a slope without also using the handbrake.

It is fine as long as you are being reasonable as to the steepness of the slope and you gently let Park take up the weight of the vehicle. I certainly use Park to hold the vehicle on the flat and and slopes but not on real steep ground where I also use the handbrake - the pin will only brake if it is shocked and then it is unlikely and just using Park the components are not stressed.

Works fine - but commence sense needs to apply.

Garry

[tempestv8]

I disagree with the above.

The pawl inside the auto gearbox is not strong and will eventually break. Use the handbrake to rest the vehicle's weight on it before shifting into Park.

[101RRS]

I disagree with the above.

The pawl inside the auto gearbox is not strong and will eventually break. Use the handbrake to rest the vehicle's weight on it before shifting into Park.

What is the basis of your statement?

I have never heard of the pawl failing in a D3 and I have had autos since 1971 and never had any issues.

[AnD3rew]

What is the basis of your statement?

I have never heard of the pawl failing in a D3 and I have had autos since 1971 and never had any issues.

This is the recommendation of manufacturers, and there are plenty of documented cases of broken pawls.

It's a bit like smoking, not every one who smokes dies of lung cancer but the evidence is that it kills enough to make doing it a bad idea. Doesn't stop plenty of people dong it though.:D

[tempestv8]

What is the basis of your statement?


I have always rested my vehicle on the parking brake and the pawl is not broken - that's my basis.

But don't take just my word for it, as this document also makes the same caution:

Parking pawl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway, we are getting away from the main topic - the electronic park brake is there to secure the vehicle and if it keeps failing there is some other reason for why this keeps happening.

I suspect the root cause has not yet been found, so continual replacement of parts will not properly address the repeated failures.

[101RRS]

The electronic park brake is there to secure the vehicle and if it keeps failing there is some other reason for why this keeps happening.

I suspect the root cause has not yet been found, so continual replacement of parts will not properly address the repeated failures.

I agree completely - the reason is actually well known - the weak components in the actuator module - there is a post maybe a year ago with a full explanation how the cheap plastic components strip etc.

Yes lack of adjustment and dirt in the brakes can cause the issue - but if the actuator module was robust enough there would not be failures.

I cannot find the post but others may be able to find it.

Garry

[tempestv8]

I wonder why Land Rover haven't given this issue the arrest ion that it deserves, as the electronic park brake, to me anyway, is a safety device. Surely by now, after countless EPB warranty claims from D3, D4 and RRS owners worldwide, this matter would be well known to the boffins at LR.

:confused:

[muddymech]

Does the park brake come on automaticallyvwhen P is selected.

[tempestv8]

No it does not.

From what has been explained to me by a LR tech, it fails due to muddy water ingress.

[Eurohaus Prestige]

G'day Guys

Good to be part of this forum some interesting topics.

The EPB module must be adjusted correctly as per Land Rover spec
also it is recommended by Land Rover to have the hand brake shoes
cleaned "washed" after driving through dirt or mud (offroad) and is
actually noteein the owners manual.

Regards
Wael

[AnD3rew]

G'day Guys

Good to be part of this forum some interesting topics.

The EPB module must be adjusted correctly as per Land Rover spec
also it is recommended by Land Rover to have the hand brake shoes
cleaned "washed" after driving through dirt or mud (offroad) and is
actually noteein the owners manual.

Regards
Wael

That's true, and mine failed after a long trip on red dirt roads, but that is clearly a design fault in an offroad vehicle.

[AnD3rew]

Does anyone have pics of the mechanism and of stripping it down to clean?

[Eurohaus Prestige]

In my opinion the only design fault is that the rear EPB shoes don't have an
automatic adjustment as it wears.

The rear shoes must be adjusted to a specific gap.

The screeching sound your hearing is due to the rear module motor
gears going beyond its limit due to the much larger gap.

How this happens sand paper effect from mud and dirt.

Regards
Wael

[sheerluck]

Does anyone have pics of the mechanism and of stripping it down to clean?

You could try Disco_Mikey's how to on Disco3 as a start: DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - How To - EPB repair/Unjam + Relatch (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/post1062451.html#1062451)

[adventure]

OK folks what I'm hearing is as follows:

Crud gets in inside the park brake drum possibly from off roading
The crud wears down the break shoes until the gap between the shoes and the drum is too great
The actuator then over-extends itself trying to apply the brake
Because the actuator is made of plastic and is not 'fit for purpose' it fails
The whole thing then needs to be replaced


Aside from Land Rover admitting the design fault and supplying a replacement that is fit for purpose, the best approach would be to clean and adjust the EPB every 5,000k's instead of the usual 10,000. Provided things are clean and properly adjusted, the EPB should then last for much, much longer.

Nick

[Graeme]

My theory is that it will last a lot longer if never or very rarely used.

[isuzurover]

Using the park function on the auto instead of the park brake is both crazy AND illegal.

Road rules in all states specify that the park brake must be engaged when a vehicle is left parked.

Park should also not be used offroad on steep hills. I have seen a few RRC owners who have done this and need the load taken off by towing or winching to allow them to change out of park.

For a long term solution either sue LandRover or get x-eng to make an x-brake for the D3/D4 (may already be in the pipeline?).

[DiscoWeb]

OK folks what I'm hearing is as follows:

Crud gets in inside the park brake drum possibly from off roading
The crud wears down the break shoes until the gap between the shoes and the drum is too great
The actuator then over-extends itself trying to apply the brake
Because the actuator is made of plastic and is not 'fit for purpose' it fails
The whole thing then needs to be replaced


Aside from Land Rover admitting the design fault and supplying a replacement that is fit for purpose, the best approach would be to clean and adjust the EPB every 5,000k's instead of the usual 10,000. Provided things are clean and properly adjusted, the EPB should then last for much, much longer.

Nick

Nick,

I have had the EPB squeal a number of times, almost always after being off road in muddy/wet conditions. But have not had to replace the actuator or mechanism each time, as far as I am aware.

I think it was replaced once under warranty but each other time I have simply had it adjusted and reset. I am surprised that you have had to have it replace so many times and I certainly ask for it to be serviced each time.

Notwithstanding that I agree the fact this continues to be such a common failure seem crazy. Surely the simplest solution would be to redesign the EPB rather than continually have to replace items under warranty !!

George

[Eurohaus Prestige]

Just a quick note to save everyones back pocket.

The first time you hear the famous Land Rover EPB
"Musical Screech" DO NOT operate the hand brake
Again if you can help and obviously depends on the
Conditions at the time.

By doing this your giving the module/actuator the chance
To be cleaned Adjusted ONLY and maybe some new
handbrake shoes in most cases saving on the cost
of a replacement EPB.

The more times you hear it the more damage is caused to
The plastic gears inside the EPB module.

All the best
Wael

[Roger]

Here's my experience for what its worth: My previous D3 had to have the park brake shoes replaced after about 50000 km - I had taken it in due to the PB jamming on a few times (released by centre console release cable each time) Dealers mechanic asked me if I used the electronic auto brake release at traffic lights etc. which I always did. He advised that each time the auto release is used it wears the PB pads a tiny bit which adds up over time. He advised that manual releasing will almost eliminate the wear as the PB is then on or off - not contacting a spinning hub for a split second as it releases. I have a D4 now and I have religiously avoided using the electronic auto release on acceleration at traffic lights etc. and I have now hit 57000 km and never had a problem not even a need to release via the hard to get at cable. I always get the car checked after off road heavy usage though, and I make sure it is cleaned out along with air filter etc. One thing I was also advised by the mechanic, that I should keep using the PB, apart from the law requiring it, as leaving it unused will have a negative effect also, not exactly sure why, I guess its to avoid build up of brake dust or road grime etc in the mechanism, any for what ever reason its worked well for me ever since. does anyone know if the D4 and D3 PB the same design?

[lpj]

I have a D4 now and I have religiously avoided using the electronic auto release on acceleration at traffic lights etc. and I have now hit 57000 km and never had a problem not even a need to release via the hard to get at cable. I always get the car checked after off road heavy usage though, and I make sure it is cleaned out along with air filter etc.

This is good advice Roger. I must admit to having occasionally used the auto release feature but have always felt a little uncomfortable with doing so. Im going to be following your method from now on!

LPJ

[discojools]

Does anybody know if the EPB has been upgraded on the D4? I am up to 80,000k now and haven't had a problem. By the time I got this amount of Ks on my D3 I had had multiple screeches and adjustments.

[SBD4]

There have been at least four new part numbers. You would hope there has been some improvement along the way.....

D3: SNF500150 superseded by LR019223
D4: LR013699 superseded by LR023622 superseded by LR032104

[adventure]

The D4 EPB has a different part number to the D3. It seems it was redesigned to address its predecessors shortcomings.

After the last total failure of the EPB my mechanic advised me not to use the auto release feature. At the 9,000km mark the unit still failed. Conclusion - the auto release is not the root problem.

N

[Duck's Guts]

My D4's EPB failed in early July at the start of my Cape York adventure. 83K kms on the clock. 2.5 weeks later and back in Cairns, an independant Landy Specialist examined the EPB and said it's failure was due to three reasons:

park brake pads worn and likely not adjusted at the 12K services that I have done
dust and sand and mud accumulation
inadequate engineering design - no self adjustment
He also stated that it is one of the most common D3/4 component failures.
Followed by suspension air compressors and starter motors.

[rocmic]

I had the first squeal on my D3 after going offroad. Lasted for quite a while; then at 70,000 it stuck on (more than once) and the actuator was replaced under extended warranty.
I now make sure that the EPB is checked and adjusted at each service. Last service (132,000 km) there was some wear on the pads but not enough to worry about.
Definitely do not use the auto release function (on purpose:wasntme:), the actuator is a rather flimsy plastic mechanism and the auto release obviously puts some strain on it before it actually releases - you can feel it when you accidentally forget to release manually before driving off.
Cheers
Mike

[vbrab]

Had the park brake unit fail on D3 (never use it), so had "upgraded" D4 version fitted in May 2013, never used it (too scared in case it failed).
Vehicle only drove on bitumen after fitting, nil water crossings.
In July, while jacking vehicle up, the unit came on by itself (??) , made VERY loud screaming noise and refused to go off. (Used emergency cable).
Called workshop who advised "seem to have a bad batch, as other failures of D4 unit reported".
Much speculation that prime cause of failure is water or dust, seems pretty poor for a company that claims to be at forefront of 4WD tech.
How hard can it be to make a sealed dust/water proof unit.....that actually is reliable?