No incentive to do overtime

[LandyAndy]

The aussie tax system SUCKS.
I have worked the last 2 weekends and look like this weekend too.We have been sub contracting Shire gear out to a Civil Contractor constructing an industrial sub division in town.
Last fortnite Julia grabbed $1500,this fortnite she took $2000.
I realise I will get some of it back as you get taxed like you are earning that amount all year.
Still it really hurts to see the government STEAL that much:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Andrew

[Tombie]

This always cracks me up...

Even after paying that tax you have a lot more in your bank than if you didn't work.

Look at it this way. I'd rather be paying a million dollars a year in tax. ;)

[Homestar]

Well at least you get paid for working the weekend. I'm salaried so nothing extra for me if I'm needed on the weekend.

Thankfully it doesn't happen too often.

But, yes our current tax system does suck. Middle income earners shoulder the bulk of the tax burden while the super rich pay almost nothing...

[Tombie]

Same here...

Salary; no Public holidays or loadings.
No additional for going in to work at night or weekends...

[Chucaro]

This always cracks me up...

Even after paying that tax you have a lot more in your bank than if you didn't work.

Look at it this way. I'd rather be paying a million dollars a year in tax. ;)

Yes as long as you do it working no more than 48 hours a week :D
More than 48 hours a week a "special tax" come in force that it is the quality of family life ;)
It would be nice if the tax was related to the hours of work or productivity instead of just the gross earning.

[LandyAndy]

Salary workers are compensated for no overtime/public holidays etc in their contracts.
Dont get me wrong,Im more than happy to do the overtime,it makes an average paying job a good paying job.This pay takes me to $70000 for the year with a fortnite to go.Not many shire workers earn this amount,rather do what I do than be an ant on a mine;););););););)
Andrew

[Homestar]

It would be nice to only work 48 hours each week...

[LandyAndy]

Yes as long as you do it working no more than 48 hours a week :D
More than 48 hours a week a "special tax" come in force that it is the quality of family life ;)
It would be nice if the tax was related to the hours of work or productivity instead of just the gross earning.

49 hours overtime for the fortnite,plus higher duties as I have been acting works supervisor for the last month.
Andrew

[sheerluck]

Well at least you get paid for working the weekend. I'm salaried so nothing extra for me if I'm needed on the weekend.

Thankfully it doesn't happen too often.

But, yes our current tax system does suck. Middle income earners shoulder the bulk of the tax burden while the super rich pay almost nothing...

Sometimes a salary really sucks. Biggest week I had recently was the middle of last year, at the nasty end of a project. 104 hours, and not a cent extra. :(

[flagg]

You get paid for overtime? :huh:

[LandyAndy]

I have a boy at uni.He was crucified by centerlink in his allowances because I got paid $400 extra in "super matching" by the Shire,it cost him $1500 in allowances:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
YET,I can get raped for doing extra hours.
Andrew

[sheerluck]

You get paid for overtime? :huh:

I wish. Not even TOIL.

[Homestar]

Centrelink is a whole other story... They ain't right in the head...

[flagg]

Sometimes a salary really sucks. Biggest week I had recently was the middle of last year, at the nasty end of a project. 104 hours, and not a cent extra. :(

and sadly that is more and more common with the new economy. Everyone is expected to do more, and new head count is rarely on the cards. I know someone who did this to get a project over the line. Management even sent out emails thanking them saying how great they were.. Until the project ended then they were fired. I was speechless.

[Tombie]

Salary workers are compensated for no overtime/public holidays etc in their contracts.
Dont get me wrong,Im more than happy to do the overtime,it makes an average paying job a good paying job.This pay takes me to $70000 for the year with a fortnite to go.Not many shire workers earn this amount,rather do what I do than be an ant on a mine;););););););)
Andrew

I'm not an ant mate...

Bugger being an operator ;););)

[Tombie]

Centrelink is a whole other story... They ain't right in the head...

Add CSA to the mix and gets really messed up!

I've deliberately kept assets low, no investment properties, and taken deliberately reduced salary packages to avoid being helically wrapped around a vertical axis...

All that ends in about 4 months... ;)

[LandyAndy]

I'm not an ant mate...

Bugger being an operator ;););)

I realise you arent Tombie,you are a tradie.If I was to go to the Bodd Gold mine I would be an ant for the similar coin.Know which side my bread is buttered;);););) Home every nite after a 900m trip compared to a 110km drive in drive out job.
TAX SUX is my point;););););).
Andrew

[Tombie]

Longest overtime run in a fortnight I've done was 98 work hours above my roster for no additional pay.

Realise that has no context...

I'd already worked 80 hours + the above.

[Tombie]

I realise you arent Tombie,you are a tradie.If I was to go to the Bodd Gold mine I would be an ant for the similar coin.Know which side my bread is buttered;);););) Home every nite after a 900m trip compared to a 110km drive in drive out job.
TAX SUX is my point;););););).
Andrew

I'm not a tradie either ;)

You get used to the tax... Just enjoy the extra pocket money.

[CraigE]

Im salary too and compensated in my package for working weekends, pub hols etc.
Where the downfall is there is no incentive to work OT if you are paid past a certain point as you lose too much in tax. I know when I was on wages we used to keep an eye on the brackets and then stop the OT as it often meant you are just about working for nothing.
I think OT for those that work in a certain income bracket should be capped about 30%. Everyone wins.
I know bonus time I lose nearly half in tax, yes I am glad I get a bonus, but that is for my work ethic and commitment and for the Gov to stick their hand out even more is just rude.

[CraigE]

I have a boy at uni.He was crucified by centerlink in his allowances because I got paid $400 extra in "super matching" by the Shire,it cost him $1500 in allowances:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
YET,I can get raped for doing extra hours.
Andrew

Yeah that is crap. The allowances should be paid to all students the same regardless of what their parents earn. Why should the kids be penalised because of what their parents earn.

[Tombie]

Max hit is 49 in the 100...

Even at that rate an hour is worth an extra $20.00 in someone's pocket.

[Chucaro]

Yeah that is crap. The allowances should be paid to all students the same regardless of what their parents earn. Why should the kids be penalised because of what their parents earn.

* 2, after all it is not their income, it is the parents money!

[LandyAndy]

Onya Craig.
I didnt need to work the last 2 weekends,the long weekend was the worse,after working sat/sun the public holiday was all for Julia:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
I was acting Works Supervisor,we are doing private works for a contractor,couldnt get enough staff to satisfy what the contractor wanted.I could have said sorry mate.Pride in my work and work ethic prevented that,I had to work.
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Yeah that is crap. The allowances should be paid to all students the same regardless of what their parents earn. Why should the kids be penalised because of what their parents earn.

Yet if you are a "POOR" farmer in Williams with multi million dollar properties you kids get a whole heap more out of Centerlink than Lindsay gets when they go to uni.
TAX SYSTEM SUX!!!!!
Andrew

[Tombie]

Same logic..

Working Monday to Friday many people work 2 to 2 1/2 of those days for tax.

[GregTD5]

Andy, as you suggest, you are taxed as though that is the income you get for the year. I'm sure you will get plenty back come tax time.
I'm about to hit 40 K paid in tax this year (not FIFO) and it hurts, but I end up looking at it as, if your paying it, you are earning it!

Go and buy a new investment property, that will help off set some tax.

Greg

[LandyAndy]

Andy, as you suggest, you are taxed as though that is the income you get for the year. I'm sure you will get plenty back come tax time.
I'm about to hit 40 K paid in tax this year (not FIFO) and it hurts, but I end up looking at it as, if your paying it, you are earning it!

Go and buy a new investment property, that will help off set some tax.

Greg

Have been looking into it Greg,I can salary sacrifice into super,but would you give mone to dracula whilst in charge of the blood bank????

Where is my lotto god????
Andrew

[Firefish]

I can deal with paying tax; it just pains me to see how it is then spent.

Last time I checked more gets handed out in welfare each year than gets contributed in personal income tax.

Something just doesn't seem right there...

[Chucaro]

I can deal with paying tax; it just pains me to see how it is then spent.

Last time I checked more gets handed out in welfare each year than gets contributed in personal income tax.

Something just doesn't seem right there...

Income tax revenue $230 871 billion
Welfare $370 billion including $37 billion on age pension
The age pensioners worked all their life and have paid a fair bit of taxes and also have helped in building or defending this country.
The balance $ 333 871 billion I do not know how are distributed but I guess that we have to look for the sick.
As an Australians we cannot have it in any other way.

[Firefish]

Income tax revenue $230 871 billion
Welfare $370 billion including $37 billion on age pension
The age pensioners worked all their life and have paid a fair bit of taxes and also have helped in building or defending this country.
The balance $ 333 871 billion I do not know how are distributed but I guess that we have to look for the sick.
As an Australians we cannot have it in any other way.

Thanks for the figures Chucaro. Yep, our social safety net is something we expect and value in Australia, but with our proportion of taxpayers shrinking each year eventually the crunch will come. Best get used to deficit budgets.

Re the aged pension I think that is a group that is hard done by - again, it seems wrong that if you work hard, scrimp and save for retirement you are punished for having too many "assets". Heh... these were probably the same poor buggers being taxed through the nose on overtime for 40 years.

[frantic]

The problem that a lot of shift workers on both salary with pre paid overtime or paid as you go is that your super only has to be paid on your dayshift 38hr rate, not your full wage. So if your base rate is say $50k, the company only has to pay super on that , regardless of the fact that your annualised wage with prepaid could anything from 50% more to 2.5 times more.
Now not all employers are like this, my dept. negotiated a compromise about halfway between base and actual salary(after a lot of "discussion"), and a company my father worked for paid him his super on his full earnings including both weekends and commission.

[wally.aussie]

know how ya feal andy, as i was a tradesman and worked in the mines . some fifo, but, mostly liveing in the comunity. i paid 49 cents on the dollar and the most i ever got back from the ato was 7.500. we worked an average of 100 to 110 hours a week. not much time to your-self. eat, sleep and back to work, was'nt good for the family life so i gave it away for quite a few years, still missed a lot of the youngens growing up as was too tired to got footy games or things of that nature. gillard has a wide palm for all the cash that we give her and nothing in return. it sure dose suck big time.
wally

[isuzurover]

... i paid 49 cents on the dollar ...

Umm, how was that possible???

Individual Tax rates are:

Tax rates 2012-13
The following rates for 2012-13 apply from 1 July 2012.
Taxable income
Tax on this income

0 - $18,200
Nil

$18,201 - $37,000
19c for each $1 over $18,200

$37,001 - $80,000
$3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000

$80,001 - $180,000
$17,547 plus 37c for each $1 over $80,000

$180,001 and over
$54,547 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000



I find it funny all the people on huge incomes who bitch and moan about all the tax they pay. You can always get a lower paying or shorter hour job if you want to pay less tax... ;)

Australian Tax rates are quite low compared to most of the developed world. When I lived in Germany I really was paying 49% tax.

Tax rates in most parts of the US are quite high once you add local, state, and federal taxes.

And Andy - I find it hilarious you are complaining about this in the middle of June. In a few short weeks you will get all your extra tax back...

[Eevo]

Aust has some of the highest taxes, levies plus gts in the world. Out of $100 I earn, about 70% makes it to the govt through one tax or another.

[Eevo]

Aust has some of the highest taxes, levies plus gts in the world. Out of $100 I earn, about 70% makes it to the govt through one tax or another.

[303gunner]

i was a tradesman and worked in the mines ......... i paid 49 cents on the dollar
Umm, how was that possible???
I think "was" is the operative term. During the "Good 'Ol Days" of the Howard Govt, Tax rates on wages as low as $50,000 were 47% plus 1.5% Medicare Levy:
Individual income tax rates for prior years (http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.aspx'doc=/content/73969.htm&pc=001/002/046/002/002&mnu=0&mfp=&st=&cy)=

Of course, now that tax rates under the Gillard Govt are at historic lows, even taking into account Bracket Creep, she is "squandering the boom times" and we are supposed to have poor standards of living, despite bringing in more take home pay than ever before. Why aren't the Talkback Radio hosts suggesting we go back to those tax rates to solve all our problems?

[D110V8D]

I'm just sick of paying tax. :D

[Piddler]

Salary workers are compensated for no overtime/public holidays etc in their contracts.
Dont get me wrong,Im more than happy to do the overtime,it makes an average paying job a good paying job.This pay takes me to $70000 for the year with a fortnite to go.Not many shire workers earn this amount,rather do what I do than be an ant on a mine;););););););)
Andrew


Not all of us Andy,
I have to work every weekend this month because of commitments I am trying to secure some funding at work.

I would still get paid the same if I never did any work outside normal hours.
I would love the opportunity to earn some extra money :(

Cheers

Cheers

[trog]

I am sure the official 5.5 % plus under employed would love a cut of the overtime.There are constant reports of Aus. having one of the highest rates of overtime . It is haves and have nots. The casuals are lead along with do O/T and you will be made permanent . Never happened to me . If scheduled and routine overtime is part of the work place then either there is poor planning of labour and resources . What percentage really want regular overtime or time for themselves for other activities ?

[roverrescue]

Andy, this is not a dig at you but Ill just use your position as an example.

You pay less tax - Woohoo!
We all pay less tax - Woohoo!
Govn has less revenue.
Less to spend on roads.
Your Shire gets no road funding.
You no longer drive a big yellow twuck...

The issue is never really the tax. The issue is as selfish humans we each think we could distribute that tax dollar better. We feel slighted that we are not getting value for our money.

If the aussie economy is in deficit, then technically each tax dollar you pay is getting back to you - it is just perhaps in an obscure way you dont like.

Perhaps it pays for the methadone that then keeps an IVDU from a Heroine addication that would have lead them to stealing your fancy new LED lightbar to sell at the pub ;)

My theory has always been, if I whinge about paying tax I then cannot whinge about the 'services'
provided by our beloved representatives.

I much prefer to whinge about the way services are delivered - far more scope than taxes!!!!

Anyways,

Steve

[UncleHo]

Well,you could get yourself on a pension,try living on a pension,disability or aged,then see how you go buying food ,petrol,and clothing,white goods,and electronics,all priced the same as what you pay for them, and then see how much you have for entertainment,or a newish car.

Look up pension rates,single,married no children,non home owning,and then home owning, and see how you would go long term,when I was working compulsory super was a pipe dream,you had to be employed for about 5 years to qualify to be " invited" to join super,but mostly managements would downsize staff just after one's 4th year's service and you would be terminated,---- 6 months later you would be contacted/ headhunted to rejoin the company at slightly higher salary,that practice was industry wide.

[Tombie]

A quick look at all the toys I have to play with quickly confirms the OT I did in the past was worth every minute :D

[Ausfree]

Uncle Ho, you certainly hit the nail on the head there.:D

[frantic]

I am sure the official 5.5 % plus under employed would love a cut of the overtime.There are constant reports of Aus. having one of the highest rates of overtime . It is haves and have nots. The casuals are lead along with do O/T and you will be made permanent . Never happened to me . If scheduled and routine overtime is part of the work place then either there is poor planning of labour and resources . What percentage really want regular overtime or time for themselves for other activities ?

To a lot of companies its cheaper to have a certain level of shortage of labour as the savings from not having to pay a wage + training + Workcover insurance + super + holiday pay + rosters is more than paying overtime. Now what is the solution? Higher penalty rates for overtime? Or do what other countries have done and legislate to limit the hours you can work?
I work a salary set up with pre paid overtime 4 crews 24/7/365 coverage. Our situation with overtime is highly variable with days where the crew is doing odd jobs or helping in other dep'ts because its so quiet and others where we need to call in 1/2 of another crew to cover the work.

[isuzurover]

I think "was" is the operative term. During the "Good 'Ol Days" of the Howard Govt, Tax rates on wages as low as $50,000 were 47% plus 1.5% Medicare Levy:
Individual income tax rates for prior years (http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.aspx'doc=/content/73969.htm&pc=001/002/046/002/002&mnu=0&mfp=&st=&cy)=

Of course, now that tax rates under the Gillard Govt are at historic lows, even taking into account Bracket Creep, she is "squandering the boom times" and we are supposed to have poor standards of living, despite bringing in more take home pay than ever before. Why aren't the Talkback Radio hosts suggesting we go back to those tax rates to solve all our problems?

Yes but that was still only the rate on the upper amount. E.g. in your example you didn't pay 47% tax on ALL of your income.

[Mick_Marsh]

and sadly that is more and more common with the new economy. Everyone is expected to do more, and new head count is rarely on the cards. I know someone who did this to get a project over the line. Management even sent out emails thanking them saying how great they were.. Until the project ended then they were fired. I was speechless.
That is standard for business today.
Happened to me.
On the up side, there is now no such thing as loyalty. People change companies for as little as an extra 50c/hr. In the good times rates are driven up.

Oh, Andy, keep paying them taxes. I need someone to fund my unemployment.

[Chucaro]

Just an example of how bad the tax system is.
From about 1980 to 1986 I used to work for a company at hourly rate servicing NC and CNC machine tools.
My last year there I earned during the financial year $39000 and pay tax accordingly with an entitlement of very small tax concessions (work clothes, boots, etc)
I invested back in 1980 over $2000 in tools to be able to do that job.
After that I when to work as a self employed ruining my business from home, using the same tools that I have used in the previous job and only leased a new Holden Rodeo to be able to visiting my customers.
My hourly rate back in 1987 was of $35.00 per hour for traveling time and for the work on site.
That financial year I paid less tax than when I was working for a company doing the same job earning less and of course to go to work I need my own transport as well.
When I was working for the company I used to work 8 hours overtime during the week plus Saturday. Once I worked one Sunday for $10.00 clean for 8 hours work, the tax office god the rest :mad:
Tradesman with specialized skills were better off to work as self employer than work for a company back then. I do not know how it is now.

[Chucaro]

.................................................. .
Oh, Andy, keep paying them taxes. I need someone to fund my unemployment.
Yes, because if you are counting on the proportional contribution of Gina Rinehart or Ivan Glasenberg among others of the "elite club" you are not going to have a chance :D

[Michael2]

On our last EBA, our union negotiated a pay cut for us. On paper it was a 2.5% pay rise (against inflation of close to 4% at the time), and then they conceded a $10-$20 (depending on your position) per hour pay cut on Over Time.

At the same time, they reneged on a contract I had so as to reduce travel allowance.

I've refused any O/T since. The first financial year following my "pay rise" I earned $10K less than the previous year. The ATO said I was a poor family and gave me an extra $1K in my Tax Return, then gave my wife another $6K in Family Payments A&B, total of $7K extra in my Tax Return. If I'd earned the $10K I would have paid $3K in Tax, so I got my $7K without having to work the O/T. My paycut has cost my employer productivity (less shifts covered by refusal of O/T), my (ex) union lost out on subsequent fees and the ATO has been making up my shortfall. The days that would have been O/T are now at home with my family.

You can't buy time.

[CraigE]

I think a lot of people are missing the point. Its not about paying tax, but about how much you pay. 47% is pretty ridiculous for anyone, usually to support some bludger who does not want to work. A lot of this conversation is about OT and additional income. To be stung for this at the highest tax rate is just insulting.

[Tombie]

You are only stung at the highest tax rate to prevent getting a tax bill at EOFY.

Other than that, everyone is taxed in accordance to the std schedule.

Want to reduce your tax?
Get a good accountant and discuss options.
Sub contracting, novated leases, investment properties geared correctly etc are all legitimate ways to change your tax load.

[vnx205]

I think a lot of people are missing the point. Its not about paying tax, but about how much you pay. 47% is pretty ridiculous for anyone, usually to support some bludger who does not want to work. A lot of this conversation is about OT and additional income. To be stung for this at the highest tax rate is just insulting.

You must be disappointed that the 45% tax you paid on your earnings above $180,000 was earmarked for people like that.

My up to 32.5% tax was used for things like hospitals, education and things like that. :D:D:D

[LandyAndy]

On again this weekend to finish the job.
I would prefer some of the other shire workers would put their hand up.NO they wont.I wont let the customer down,I will do the work,would love a weekend off myself:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
Andrew

[Tombie]

Eye on the prize mate...

I'm suppose to be going fishing all weekend... I'm going into work to do some pre-planning work...

[isuzurover]

On again this weekend to finish the job.
I would prefer some of the other shire workers would put their hand up.NO they wont.I wont let the customer down,I will do the work,would love a weekend off myself:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
Andrew

Andy, this is the perfect time of year to do OT. Just think of the big fat tax return you will get...

[Blknight.aus]

quit your whinging.

Im on day 12 of a 27 day stint and haven't been home, my bonus?

$414. BEFORE tax.

AND, as I get paid bugger all 24 hours a day (its a salary) 7 days a week there are occasions when those are the hours I work

[Sleepy]

...

[Bigbjorn]

Yeah that is crap. The allowances should be paid to all students the same regardless of what their parents earn. Why should the kids be penalised because of what their parents earn.

Because parent's are supposed to support their children. There is a Parental Asset and Income Test to ensure this. The Commonwealth is the payer of last resort. The intention of Parliament when formulating and passing the legislation is clear. The Child Support Agency is there to provide the same service to custodial parents, that is to extract child support from unwilling parents, mostly scumbag dads.

[Sparksdisco]

Because parent's are supposed to support their children. There is a Parental Asset and Income Test to ensure this. The Commonwealth is the payer of last resort. The intention of Parliament when formulating and passing the legislation is clear. The Child Support Agency is there to provide the same service to custodial parents, that is to extract child support from unwilling parents, mostly scumbag dads.

While there are a lot of scumbag dads, There are a lot of dad trapping moms who ditch the dad and take them for everything they have.

Also there are a lot of parents who use there kids for their own gain.

I had a friend that was in part of a trust with his parents. he worked and earned his own money. When it came to tax time the trust distributed his parents earnings to all members of the trust. He never saw any of that money but he had to pay the large tax bill because his parents distributed the funds to him Parents get to pay less tax while there kids foot the bill for the rest.

[Tombie]

Because parent's are supposed to support their children. There is a Parental Asset and Income Test to ensure this. The Commonwealth is the payer of last resort. The intention of Parliament when formulating and passing the legislation is clear. The Child Support Agency is there to provide the same service to custodial parents, that is to extract child support from unwilling parents, mostly scumbag dads.

It's also an easily manipulated tool for vindictive ex partners to screw over the non custodial parent.

My ex, a woman who was one of those sneaky people who was popping the pill down the sink from day one, got me to buy a house, buy a new car, furnish the entire house and was playing up whilst I was at work.

She took me for so much after 2 years it wasn't funny.

Since then I have purchased her a house and other niceties via the CSA!

All the while, she has her smokes and my son got nothing but a tip to live in and crappy clothing.

We (me and wife 2.0) would buy him good clothes to wear and she would never return them, rather giving them to her 2nd child from a Cop she entrapped (the guy she was playing up with).
One she had him locked in she dumped him too... Leaving me and this other guy supporting her happy (chosen) lifestyle.

I have also raised another child in my home with no financial assistance from gov or the biological parent (he's my step son) and he costs NOwhere near the amount my salary is raped each fortnight.

When you're paying $2k a month to the CSA then you see if you're a dead-beat Dad... :(

This is on top of ALL expenses of seeing him being born by me. As she pleaded hardship sharing the costs.

He's now 18 and I'm still paying - and it will continue until he leaves school at the end of the year. What's he going to feel when it stops and his mother is getting nothing?

The Dead beat Dads are often on benefits and contribute $10 a fortnight.

Don't lump everyone into the same
Category.

Some of us are committed to our kids and still being screwed by the ex!

[Chucaro]

Tombie, I case like yours in my native Uruguay she will left with absolutely nothing for being unloyal to the husband.
Also is working in the other way if the husband is not loyal.
Why we do not have a Court of Justice instead of a Court of Law :(