Help...... possible engine failureTDV6

[gdub]

While towing small camper to Maleny last weekend detected slight knocking sound which got worse through the day eventualy required towning as vehicle stopped vehicle was serviced 2 weeks prior.
Vehicle has 80,000k on clock mechanic suspects bearing failure or injector failure possibly causing problem still has to do more tests the computer showed no faults and the temp guage was normal He is talking $15,000 $20,000 to replace motor have owned the vehicle for 2 years with no trouble and has been serviced very 6 months Appreciate any input from people suffering or have suffered similar pain.

2008 D3 TDV6

[Rich84]

First thing to do is have an analysis on the engine oil done. Drain some into a clean container and have it done by specialist. You are looking for unusual wear, TBN of the oil and its viscosity. Don't let anyone touch the car until this is done. I have seen a few failures on other websites that had come down to poor engine oil with low TBN, or worse, the wrong viscousity being used, ie 20w50. Not suitable at all for the TDV6.

You said you are servicing it every six months and the car is at quite low km so I'm guessing it gets done at <10K intervals.

You should not be having this problem if it is serviced to spec. If the servicing is to spec, I'd definitely be trying to get LRA to come to the table.

$15-20K is outrageous.

[101RRS]

In a worst case scenario - engines can be rebuilt rather than replaced.

garry

[Geedublya]

It is pretty hard to rebuild the TDV6 as no parts are available only motors.

There is a motor in the markets for sale a lot less than a new one.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/complete-engines-sale/174948-2-7l-tdi-disco-3-4-a.html

[101RRS]

It is pretty hard to rebuild the TDV6 as no parts are available only motors.



Parts are now available in the UK - there is a post about it on the Disco Uk site.

Garry

[Rich84]

What did you have in mind Garry? LR don't sell bottom end parts - is the post you're referring to the one about Federal Mogul selling some parts possibly later in the year?
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic93796.html

I did read on disco3.co.uk of a person having his TDV6 engine rebuilt using a reground crank and main bearings from a different auto maker. I think it was VW or Audi.

Check through woody32's posts.

[ozscott]

Surely the costs of rebuilding any modern TDI are not worth it versus purchasing a new one.

Cheers

[sheerluck]

What did you have in mind Garry? LR don't sell bottom end parts - is the post you're referring to the one about Federal Mogul selling some parts possibly later in the year?
DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - TDV6 Engine parts - Some Aftermarket availability this year (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic93796.html)

I did read on disco3.co.uk of a person having his TDV6 engine rebuilt using a reground crank and main bearings from a different auto maker. I think it was VW or Audi.

Check through woody32's posts.

Britpart now have main and big end bearings available. Very expensive, but cheaper than a new short engine. Federal are expecting to have pistons and rings available in August.

I know the thread you are talking about, and it was a South African guy I think, and he'd found Toyota bearings to fit.

[101RRS]

Yes that was it - bearings, pistons etc.

Of course new engines use new parts that have to come from some where and these engines are used in may cars - while a Ford engine - which company in the Ford family actually makes the engines?

I would have thought that under Aussie law not to provide these parts would be illegal (as they do actually exist) but it would need someone with a bit of funding behind them to force the issue in court.. The same thing happened in the early 80s where you could only buy complete assemblies and a court case then forced car makers to provider the individual parts. Aust Law requires car parts to be available for 10 years but I guess the issue is whether an TDV6 engine is one part or a assembly made up of parts under the laws.

Garry

[landy]

Just a thought,
Did you have the bottom pulley off at the service, cam belt replacement or oil seal for example. Maybe the harmonic balancer is loose causing the knock. I had this problem with a Patrol once. It wasn't tightened to spec by the mechanic who replaced the cam belt and caused a knock that got gradually worse and chewed out the crankshaft nose. We rebuilt it in situ with some careful welding and grinding with a dremmel. If this is the case it wouldn't bring on the fault codes either.
Worth checking I think.

Cheers, Nino.

[sheerluck]

Yes that was it - bearings, pistons etc.

Of course new engines use new parts that have to come from some where and these engines are used in may cars - while a Ford engine - which company in the Ford family actually makes the engines?

I would have thought that under Aussie law not to provide these parts would be illegal (as they do actually exist) but it would need someone with a bit of funding behind them to force the issue in court.. The same thing happened in the early 80s where you could only buy complete assemblies and a court case then forced car makers to provider the individual parts. Aust Law requires car parts to be available for 10 years but I guess the issue is whether an TDV6 engine is one part or a assembly made up of parts under the laws.

Garry

This was the Disco3 thread about bearings DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - TDV6 Big End + Main Bearings available from Britpart (http://disco3.co.uk/forum/topic96481.html)

I had wondered about that myself Garry. It seems that it's not just Aus suffering this time but the whole world. And seeing as that TDV6 engine was introduced in 2004 there must be a big demand now for rebuild parts as people move away from main dealer servicing.

[Mike_S]

Friends back home had this failure last year, ended up with a new engine.

2008 HSE (G4 Disco), 54k miles so approx 80k kms, 600 miles / 1 week after a major service. So similar it's just not funny.:mad:

[alpick]

There was threads on the UK D3 site about non genuine oil filters resulting in lower than ideal oil pressure and bearing failure, is it a genuine filter you have?

[TerryO]

A new long engine plus fitting, depending on what hourly rate the workshop charges should be between $12,000 and top end of $15,000.

They can buy a new TDV6 long engine for roughly $8,000, if they order it as a stock part, which means it usually arrives about a week later.

Anyway that was roughly the price the workshop paid for a new long engine when they replaced mine 18 months ago.

If you need a new engine, make sure you get all new hoses at the same time. You will find it a lot cheaper to get them changed out now because there is no extra labour content to replace them, unlike the silly prices you will pay in the future when they need replacing.

I also had my radiator sent off and had the tanks removed and had them clean the core while the engine was out.

Also make sure they mark which cylinder each injector comes out of so they can go back in the same hole.


Good luck.

[gdub]

Thanks for all for helpful replies will be talking to the Mechanic tomorrow, this experience after only 80000k does make you nervous about taking the vehicle too far afield..... was planning a Cape trip/ Kimberley next year and I had no warning that there was an imminent problem as car seemed to be going very well, the motor was mapped 2 yearsrs ago wonder if this has an effect on longevity.

[gdub]

A new long engine plus fitting, depending on what hourly rate the workshop charges should be between $12,000 and top end of $15,000.

They can buy a new TDV6 long engine for roughly $8,000, if they order it as a stock part, which means it usually arrives about a week later.

Anyway that was roughly the price the workshop paid for a new long engine when they replaced mine 18 months ago.

If you need a new engine, make sure you get all new hoses at the same time. You will find it a lot cheaper to get them changed out now because there is no extra labour content to replace them, unlike the silly prices you will pay in the future when they need replacing.

I also had my radiator sent off and had the tanks removed and had them clean the core while the engine was out.

Also make sure they mark which cylinder each injector comes out of so they can go back in the same hole.


Good luck.
Terry
Thanks for your reply, looks like the bearings are shot with possible migration of metal throughout, having trouble sourcing a long engine...... any ideas or recommendations.

Graham

[TerryO]

Personally I would ask for a quote based on the workshop buying a new long engine from LR rather than buying someone elses secondhand one that may not have long to go either.

At least you can mention that you have an idea on what the engines truly costs rather than the RRP that they may try and charge you.

Hopefully then they will show restraint in what they ask. Plus if they get to greedy there is no reason why you can't haggle a bit or even throw yourself on the floor and cry for mercy if that helps! ... :o

After they give you a quote and if you decide to go forward with them then ask them to also replace all the hoses and serpentine belt etc and get them to check pulleys etc. Because while it is being reasembled your only paying for parts and not any extra labour as they have to put it all back together anyway. Plus have the radiator flushed and if its a pre 2007 model consider having the EGR's blanked, then the engine will never have used exhaust gases and carbon and unburnt gunk being blown through it from new.

That is something that I ended up regretting when withing 12 months I had needed to replace nearly every hose and belt and some pulleys at not only the extra cost of the parts but the far more expensive cost of the extra labour as well.

If it makes you feel any better when you get the quote, think of this, it wasn't that many years ago on here that people were telling storys of being charged up to 25k to have a new TDV6 supplied and fitted only months after their D3's had gone out of warranty. ...:mad:

[mattg]

Just a note I believe the 2.7lt engine is also used in Pug 407 and Citroen C5 and C6.

possibly worth looking for Parts there as well..... Possibly

Matt

[101RRS]

Just a note I believe the 2.7lt engine is also used in Pug 407 and Citroen C5 and C6.

possibly worth looking for Parts there as well..... Possibly

Matt

Jaguar and Ford Territory as well

[mattg]

They should have had that in the territory to start with. Ford might still be making cars in Geelong if they did

[101RRS]

They should have had that in the territory to start with. Ford might still be making cars in Geelong if they did

If you are making a huge loss on every locally made car - selling more vehicles does not help the issue - just makes the bottom line even worse.

[Mike_S]

If it's useful info, I'm told the 'book' time to do an engine change is 11.5 hrs. Most of that is the lifting / dropping of the bodyshell. I'd also concur with everything others have said about replacing hoses / clamps etc rather than reusing the old ones ( even if they are only 5 years old). My friends back in the UK who recently had to get a new engine didn't and very nearly paid the price for it when one of the clamps failed shortly after getting the car back from JE Engineering. They soon changed them all...

Something to consider is that if it's chewed a bearing and spat it into the oil, the swarf will be everywhere. Friends also ended up with a complete new turbo assembly and intercooler because of this.

[gdub]

Looks like may have to get an engine from the UK am told none in the country?

[rb30gtr]

Just to clarify with some of you LR experts
Is the motor built by Ford UK? :Ford AJD-V6/PSA DT17

[sheerluck]

Just to clarify with some of you LR experts
Is the motor built by Ford UK? :Ford AJD-V6/PSA DT17

I know it was designed for Peugeot Citroën (PSA) originally, but I think it was developed and built by Ford in Dagenham

[EDIT] The world according to Wikipedia says I'm more or less right:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AJD-V6/PSA_DT17

[rb30gtr]

I know it was designed for Peugeot Citroën (PSA) originally, but I think it was developed and built by Ford in Dagenham

[EDIT] The world according to Wikipedia says I'm more or less right:
Ford AJD-V6/PSA DT17 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AJD-V6/PSA_DT17)

:eek:

[101RRS]

What is the :eek: for??

[Tombie]

Righto...

I hereby propose no D3/D4 diesel be referred to as TDV6 etc

Like those late model Defa drivers I believe we should be driving "Lions"

:D

[Graeme]

I believe we should be driving "Lions"

:D
Fair 'nuf - mine leaps and snarls quite well if given a bit of a prod.

[sheerluck]

Righto...

I hereby propose no D3/D4 diesel be referred to as TDV6 etc

Like those late model Defa drivers I believe we should be driving "Lions"

:D

Sounds fair. So

TDV6 = Lion
Tranny engine = Puma
TD5 = Storm (I think)
4BD1 = ?

Fill in the gap.....

[Tombie]

Sounds fair. So

TDV6 = Lion
Tranny engine = Puma
TD5 = Storm (I think)
4BD1 = ?

Fill in the gap.....

Ferret ;)

[TerryO]

Sounds fair. So

TDV6 = Lion
Tranny engine = Puma
TD5 = Storm (I think)
4BD1 = ?

Fill in the gap.....


Goat :angel:

[Disco Muppet]

4BD1 has to be "Beard"

[Ferret]

Ferret ;)

Pussy

[101RRS]

Dinosaur

[rb30gtr]

What is the :eek: for??

:eek: that is my concentration level reading the wiki page, my fiance calls it my 'internet' face.
Looks like that Lion engine was jammed in everything that needed a diesel in the UK.

Also: 4BD1 - Koh-Samui's favorite 'bus' engine?